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How do the Tories need to change?

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  • A-R-T-H-U-R
    A-R-T-H-U-R Posts: 7,678
    seth plum said:

    One useful feature of Tories is they provide a refuge for the selfish, so everybody knows where to go to learn about self serving, anti community, money driven, destructive and divisive bdhaviour.

    Were you awake during the Blair Brown years?
    I agree about the Tories but your post suggests it's only them. Extraordinary.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    A-R-T-H-U-R said:

    seth plum said:

    One useful feature of Tories is they provide a refuge for the selfish, so everybody knows where to go to learn about self serving, anti community, money driven, destructive and divisive bdhaviour.

    Were you awake during the Blair Brown years?
    I agree about the Tories but your post suggests it's only them. Extraordinary.
    Like comparing Hitler and Mother Teresa.

  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,655
    edited August 2018
    seth plum said:

    One useful feature of Tories is they provide a refuge for the selfish, so everybody knows where to go to learn about self serving, anti community, money driven, destructive and divisive bdhaviour.

    I'm always impressed by people like yourself who wear their righteousness so lightly. It must be difficult to live in a society with so many people who are clearly your moral inferiors.
  • Big_Bad_World
    Big_Bad_World Posts: 5,859
    ShootersHillGuru said:

    A-R-T-H-U-R said:

    seth plum said:

    One useful feature of Tories is they provide a refuge for the selfish, so everybody knows where to go to learn about self serving, anti community, money driven, destructive and divisive bdhaviour.

    Were you awake during the Blair Brown years?
    I agree about the Tories but your post suggests it's only them. Extraordinary.
    Like comparing Hitler and Mother Teresa.

    You are aware of all of the absolute horrors that were supported and endorsed by Mother Teresa, right?
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    A-R-T-H-U-R said:

    seth plum said:

    One useful feature of Tories is they provide a refuge for the selfish, so everybody knows where to go to learn about self serving, anti community, money driven, destructive and divisive bdhaviour.

    Were you awake during the Blair Brown years?
    I agree about the Tories but your post suggests it's only them. Extraordinary.
    We are going round again. You mentioned Brown becoming leader when I mentioned May becoming leader.
    Despite what you say about what my post 'suggests' and incidentally I agree with you about evil politicians across the board, I am concerned about present day comparisons. The Tory policy towards housing, disability, public services amongst other things is much nastier than ideas out forward by others. The Tory defence is not to deny they are mendacious or that other policies are not more humane and community minded, no the defence is Theresa May for example braying at PMQ's that other (Labour) policies would 'bankrupt the country'.
    Tories don't even have the grace to pretend they give a chite.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    SantaClaus said:

    seth plum said:

    One useful feature of Tories is they provide a refuge for the selfish, so everybody knows where to go to learn about self serving, anti community, money driven, destructive and divisive bdhaviour.

    I'm always impressed by people like yourself who wear their righteousness so lightly. It must be difficult to live in a society with so many people who are clearly your moral inferiors.
    At least the 'so many' are not the majority. Despite that they wield the power.
    When you say 'inferior' are you suggesting there is something wrong with being self serving, anti community, money driven destructive and divisive?
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.
  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,155
    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
    what about that what aboutism?

    You can be critical of the tories and corbyn. Mindblowing i know.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    On Brexit Corbyn is utterly useless and deserves criticism.
    On brexit the Tories are shredding the country whilst snuffling round the trough grubbing for personal advancement.
    There you go, a bit of balance right there.
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  • Cordoban Addick
    Cordoban Addick Posts: 5,448
    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
    what about that what aboutism?

    You can be critical of the tories and corbyn. Mindblowing i know.
    I look forward to your criticism of the Tories on a thread I started to criticise the Tories.
  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,155
    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
    what about that what aboutism?

    You can be critical of the tories and corbyn. Mindblowing i know.
    Then start a different thread as suggested.

    I am critical of both too, but while the Tories are fucking 62.3 million people, Corbyn is only fucking himself and his party, so I don't allow myself to be drawn away from the real problems by a right wing media with a vested interest in keeping the Tories in power, and help them to do so by helping spread their smokescreen tactics.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
    what about that what aboutism?

    You can be critical of the tories and corbyn. Mindblowing i know.
    Then start a different thread as suggested.

    I am critical of both too, but while the Tories are fucking 62.3 million people, Corbyn is only fucking himself and his party, so I don't allow myself to be drawn away from the real problems by a right wing media with a vested interest in keeping the Tories in power, and help them to do so by helping spread their smokescreen tactics.
    there are multiple threads, all sunk because posters couldn't stand criticism of dear leader and started posting rothschild conspiracy theories and making personal attacks.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Cordoban Addick said:

    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
    what about that what aboutism?

    You can be critical of the tories and corbyn. Mindblowing i know.
    I look forward to your criticism of the Tories on a thread I started to criticise the Tories.
    I have criticised the tories, if you care to read back on this thread?
  • Cordoban Addick
    Cordoban Addick Posts: 5,448
    kentaddick said:

    Cordoban Addick said:

    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
    what about that what aboutism?

    You can be critical of the tories and corbyn. Mindblowing i know.
    I look forward to your criticism of the Tories on a thread I started to criticise the Tories.
    I have criticised the tories, if you care to read back on this thread?
    So I can look forward to seeing some criticism of the Tories on this thread in the very near future?
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,849
    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
    what about that what aboutism?

    You can be critical of the tories and corbyn. Mindblowing i know.
    Then start a different thread as suggested.

    I am critical of both too, but while the Tories are fucking 62.3 million people, Corbyn is only fucking himself and his party, so I don't allow myself to be drawn away from the real problems by a right wing media with a vested interest in keeping the Tories in power, and help them to do so by helping spread their smokescreen tactics.
    ... I mustn't repeat what I have previously said...
  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,155
    edited August 2018
    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
    what about that what aboutism?

    You can be critical of the tories and corbyn. Mindblowing i know.
    Then start a different thread as suggested.

    I am critical of both too, but while the Tories are fucking 62.3 million people, Corbyn is only fucking himself and his party, so I don't allow myself to be drawn away from the real problems by a right wing media with a vested interest in keeping the Tories in power, and help them to do so by helping spread their smokescreen tactics.
    there are multiple threads, all sunk because posters couldn't stand criticism of dear leader and started posting rothschild conspiracy theories and making personal attacks.
    Did admin tell you that, as well as CAFC fan? Or have you both made that up as a smokescreen for your smokescreen? The people have a right to know... :wink:

    I note you choose not to respond to the second paragraph.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    To answer the question in the thread title. They can’t. They represent the interests of the establishment and money. Any deviation from prioritising those interests would see them cease to be.

    You can criticise Labour for a million things but they do stand for the advancement and improving the lives of the “common” man. Difficult within the constraints of the free market and the existing balances of power but on the whole I’m very proud to be a Socialist. It’s a doctrine of looking after the hindmost rather than the Tory obsession with devil take. Corbyn doesn’t realise that in order to gain, keep and make a difference in power you have to play by certain rules. That’s why he’s bad for Labour. I have always worked on the basis that any Labour government is better than any Tory one but in order for that to happen Labour must first gain power and usually that’s against all the odds. Corbyn for me minimises Labours chances of achieving power.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
    what about that what aboutism?

    You can be critical of the tories and corbyn. Mindblowing i know.
    Then start a different thread as suggested.

    I am critical of both too, but while the Tories are fucking 62.3 million people, Corbyn is only fucking himself and his party, so I don't allow myself to be drawn away from the real problems by a right wing media with a vested interest in keeping the Tories in power, and help them to do so by helping spread their smokescreen tactics.
    there are multiple threads, all sunk because posters couldn't stand criticism of dear leader and started posting rothschild conspiracy theories and making personal attacks.
    Did admin tell you that, as well as CAFC fan? Or have you both made that up as a smokescreen for your smokescreen? The people have a right to know... :wink:

    I note you choose not to respond to the second paragraph.
    i note you chose not to respond to comment on corbyn's anti semitic comments. Are you enabling anti semitism in that case?

    But in response, sounds like you're moving into trumpian "fake news" territory there.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    edited August 2018
    Cordoban Addick said:

    kentaddick said:

    Cordoban Addick said:

    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
    what about that what aboutism?

    You can be critical of the tories and corbyn. Mindblowing i know.
    I look forward to your criticism of the Tories on a thread I started to criticise the Tories.
    I have criticised the tories, if you care to read back on this thread?
    So I can look forward to seeing some criticism of the Tories on this thread in the very near future?
    well, the tories have made the piss poor decision to have a holiday, so at the moment we're only left with corbyn's anti semitic comments and mates. But yes, when the circus starts again. You can probably find more of my anti tory comments in the eu thread.
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  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    seth plum said:

    On Brexit and foreign policy Corbyn is utterly useless and deserves criticism.
    On brexit the Tories are shredding the country whilst snuffling round the trough grubbing for personal advancement.
    There you go, a bit of balance right there.

    fixed that for ya, but completely agree.
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,765
    Haha posted a link first thing today and no one responded to it so came back with another story a few hours later... keep going until you get a bite I suppose.
  • harveys_gardener
    harveys_gardener Posts: 7,038
    They could compel Gavin Williamson to sell his shares in Massey Ferguson.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    kentaddick said:

    seth plum said:

    On Brexit and foreign policy Corbyn is utterly useless and deserves criticism.
    On brexit the Tories are shredding the country whilst snuffling round the trough grubbing for personal advancement.
    There you go, a bit of balance right there.

    fixed that for ya, but completely agree.
    I am glad you make it clear you added 'foreign policy'. I wouldn't be able to, because I would be stuck on trying to understand what 'foreign' is.
    Being born in Kent and living in London, I would say that I am probably a cultural, social and political foreigner in this land although I am physically here.
    No way on earth do I consider myself to be part of the world inhabited by some posters on here, or that which is inhabited by most Tories.
    It is my personal tragedy that I have to exist in this current state.
  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,155
    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    kentaddick said:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/context-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-john-mcdonnell-today-show-labour?amp

    Seems to me we're starting to get outrage fatigue on corbyn's anti semitism. Or, sorry, the latest SMEAR™ fatigue.

    Not surprising really is it. We throw a dozen things at you that the Tories do on a daily basis to undermine the entire country and it's people, and all you keep coming back with is this... You don't care about Tory policies killing British people, we get it.
    what about that what aboutism?

    You can be critical of the tories and corbyn. Mindblowing i know.
    Then start a different thread as suggested.

    I am critical of both too, but while the Tories are fucking 62.3 million people, Corbyn is only fucking himself and his party, so I don't allow myself to be drawn away from the real problems by a right wing media with a vested interest in keeping the Tories in power, and help them to do so by helping spread their smokescreen tactics.
    there are multiple threads, all sunk because posters couldn't stand criticism of dear leader and started posting rothschild conspiracy theories and making personal attacks.
    Did admin tell you that, as well as CAFC fan? Or have you both made that up as a smokescreen for your smokescreen? The people have a right to know... :wink:

    I note you choose not to respond to the second paragraph.
    i note you chose not to respond to comment on corbyn's anti semitic comments. Are you enabling anti semitism in that case?

    But in response, sounds like you're moving into trumpian "fake news" territory there.
    And you are throwing up another smokescreen to mask a subject you wish to avoid.

    On Corbyn - I read the article, saw the quote, he clearly said Zionists, not Jews. He is anti Israeli expansionism, not the same as anti-Semitism at all.

    Labour party would still be better of without him at the helm right now, but not for that reason.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,118
    seth plum said:

    kentaddick said:

    seth plum said:

    On Brexit and foreign policy Corbyn is utterly useless and deserves criticism.
    On brexit the Tories are shredding the country whilst snuffling round the trough grubbing for personal advancement.
    There you go, a bit of balance right there.

    fixed that for ya, but completely agree.
    I am glad you make it clear you added 'foreign policy'. I wouldn't be able to, because I would be stuck on trying to understand what 'foreign' is.
    Being born in Kent and living in London, I would say that I am probably a cultural, social and political foreigner in this land although I am physically here.
    No way on earth do I consider myself to be part of the world inhabited by some posters on here, or that which is inhabited by most Tories.
    It is my personal tragedy that I have to exist in this current state.
    You could move?
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Stu_of_Kunming said:

    seth plum said:

    kentaddick said:

    seth plum said:

    On Brexit and foreign policy Corbyn is utterly useless and deserves criticism.
    On brexit the Tories are shredding the country whilst snuffling round the trough grubbing for personal advancement.
    There you go, a bit of balance right there.

    fixed that for ya, but completely agree.
    I am glad you make it clear you added 'foreign policy'. I wouldn't be able to, because I would be stuck on trying to understand what 'foreign' is.
    Being born in Kent and living in London, I would say that I am probably a cultural, social and political foreigner in this land although I am physically here.
    No way on earth do I consider myself to be part of the world inhabited by some posters on here, or that which is inhabited by most Tories.
    It is my personal tragedy that I have to exist in this current state.
    You could move?
    Is that a riff on 'if you don't like it fuck off'?
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,118
    seth plum said:

    Stu_of_Kunming said:

    seth plum said:

    kentaddick said:

    seth plum said:

    On Brexit and foreign policy Corbyn is utterly useless and deserves criticism.
    On brexit the Tories are shredding the country whilst snuffling round the trough grubbing for personal advancement.
    There you go, a bit of balance right there.

    fixed that for ya, but completely agree.
    I am glad you make it clear you added 'foreign policy'. I wouldn't be able to, because I would be stuck on trying to understand what 'foreign' is.
    Being born in Kent and living in London, I would say that I am probably a cultural, social and political foreigner in this land although I am physically here.
    No way on earth do I consider myself to be part of the world inhabited by some posters on here, or that which is inhabited by most Tories.
    It is my personal tragedy that I have to exist in this current state.
    You could move?
    Is that a riff on 'if you don't like it fuck off'?
    Maybe, a little, but if I Iived somewhere that made my life feel like a tragedy, or made me feel like a cultural, social and political foreigner I'd probably leave.

    Every time I return to The UK it feels less and less like home, which is why I have no plans to return.
  • Big_Bad_World
    Big_Bad_World Posts: 5,859
    edited August 2018
    seth plum said:

    Stu_of_Kunming said:

    seth plum said:

    kentaddick said:

    seth plum said:

    On Brexit and foreign policy Corbyn is utterly useless and deserves criticism.
    On brexit the Tories are shredding the country whilst snuffling round the trough grubbing for personal advancement.
    There you go, a bit of balance right there.

    fixed that for ya, but completely agree.
    I am glad you make it clear you added 'foreign policy'. I wouldn't be able to, because I would be stuck on trying to understand what 'foreign' is.
    Being born in Kent and living in London, I would say that I am probably a cultural, social and political foreigner in this land although I am physically here.
    No way on earth do I consider myself to be part of the world inhabited by some posters on here, or that which is inhabited by most Tories.
    It is my personal tragedy that I have to exist in this current state.
    You could move?
    Is that a riff on 'if you don't like it fuck off'?
    To be fair to Stu it's probably, and simply, the opposite of what seems to be your thought process of 'I don't like it so everyone else should/can fuck' off.

    There's not even a fag paper between the stances.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Stu_of_Kunming said:

    seth plum said:

    Stu_of_Kunming said:

    seth plum said:

    kentaddick said:

    seth plum said:

    On Brexit and foreign policy Corbyn is utterly useless and deserves criticism.
    On brexit the Tories are shredding the country whilst snuffling round the trough grubbing for personal advancement.
    There you go, a bit of balance right there.

    fixed that for ya, but completely agree.
    I am glad you make it clear you added 'foreign policy'. I wouldn't be able to, because I would be stuck on trying to understand what 'foreign' is.
    Being born in Kent and living in London, I would say that I am probably a cultural, social and political foreigner in this land although I am physically here.
    No way on earth do I consider myself to be part of the world inhabited by some posters on here, or that which is inhabited by most Tories.
    It is my personal tragedy that I have to exist in this current state.
    You could move?
    Is that a riff on 'if you don't like it fuck off'?
    Maybe, a little, but if I Iived somewhere that made my life feel like a tragedy, or made me feel like a cultural, social and political foreigner I'd probably leave.

    Every time I return to The UK it feels less and less like home, which is why I have no plans to return.
    I understand your reply, and respect it maybe a little. However sometimes decisions about leaving or not are often constrained by personal responsibility towards others, particularly relatives.
    Fucking off is not always an option for everybody.
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