The influence of the EU on Britain.
Comments
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Why does criticism of Corbyn automatically mean you support everything The Tories do?ShootersHillGuru said:
You mean like the promises that Tory politicians like Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg and Grayling made and even had painted onto the side of a bus ?Big_Bad_World said:The promise to end the 'greed-is-good' culture was a curious promise to make, if not only because it is completely impossible to end a compensatory human behaviour borne from experiences.
Plenty of other wishy-washy, impossible to implement/deliver on promises. Sounds good, no doubt, though.3 -
I was just asking you who you think is a good political speaker - I didn't realise this was such a difficult question.Big_Bad_World said:
I'll attempt to make it simple for you. Criticising Corbyns speech does not then automatically mean I have a preference or predilection for another political orator.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Not really that curious but obviously I'll have to make it simple for you. You seem to be critical of Corbyn as far as I can see so I was just asking who you think is a good political orator? I'm assuming the question is clear?Big_Bad_World said:
That's because I haven't alluded to anyone falling in to that category. Strange that you took that from my post.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I'm not really clear who you would hold up as an example of great political oratory at present? Boris? Moggy?Big_Bad_World said:You can tell when Corbyn delivers another of his one size fits all, generic, not really saying much speeches as the most vociferous activists clamour to claim any criticism of his utterances is nothing but virulence from 'attack dogs'.
How did I do?
Curious.
Again, it's a bit strange that you think the two are mutually exclusive.
Your thought process is f***ing bizarre...
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I'd say your framing of questions is even more bizarre.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I was just asking you who you think is a good political speaker - I didn't realise this was such a difficult question.Big_Bad_World said:
I'll attempt to make it simple for you. Criticising Corbyns speech does not then automatically mean I have a preference or predilection for another political orator.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Not really that curious but obviously I'll have to make it simple for you. You seem to be critical of Corbyn as far as I can see so I was just asking who you think is a good political orator? I'm assuming the question is clear?Big_Bad_World said:
That's because I haven't alluded to anyone falling in to that category. Strange that you took that from my post.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I'm not really clear who you would hold up as an example of great political oratory at present? Boris? Moggy?Big_Bad_World said:You can tell when Corbyn delivers another of his one size fits all, generic, not really saying much speeches as the most vociferous activists clamour to claim any criticism of his utterances is nothing but virulence from 'attack dogs'.
How did I do?
Curious.
Again, it's a bit strange that you think the two are mutually exclusive.
Your thought process is f***ing bizarre...
It's quite evident by the construction of your questions that they are somewhat loaded.
Maybe you're right. Maybe it is me. However, I don't believe it is.3 -
In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.
One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.
Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.
Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.
A fourth friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.
My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed everyone else.17 -
You seemed critical of Corbyn so I assumed you didn't think much of him as a speaker. I then asked you who you think is a good orator? I'm a little unclear what doesn't make sense?Big_Bad_World said:
I'd say your framing of questions is even more bizarre.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I was just asking you who you think is a good political speaker - I didn't realise this was such a difficult question.Big_Bad_World said:
I'll attempt to make it simple for you. Criticising Corbyns speech does not then automatically mean I have a preference or predilection for another political orator.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Not really that curious but obviously I'll have to make it simple for you. You seem to be critical of Corbyn as far as I can see so I was just asking who you think is a good political orator? I'm assuming the question is clear?Big_Bad_World said:
That's because I haven't alluded to anyone falling in to that category. Strange that you took that from my post.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I'm not really clear who you would hold up as an example of great political oratory at present? Boris? Moggy?Big_Bad_World said:You can tell when Corbyn delivers another of his one size fits all, generic, not really saying much speeches as the most vociferous activists clamour to claim any criticism of his utterances is nothing but virulence from 'attack dogs'.
How did I do?
Curious.
Again, it's a bit strange that you think the two are mutually exclusive.
Your thought process is f***ing bizarre...
It's quite evident by the construction of your questions that they are somewhat loaded.
Maybe you're right. Maybe it is me. However, I don't believe it is.
If you think Corbyn is a good orator you could maybe tell me I was mistaken in my assumption or alternatively tell me who you think is a good orator?
If you don't want to answer questions that's not a problem. I'm not after an argument.
I think we may need to see a relationship counsellor to work on our communication?
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You seem to be implying that some people are massive hypocrites - surely not?JorgeCosta said:In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.
One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.
Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.
Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.
A third friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.
My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed eberyone else.2 -
They may not have actively colluded in the sense of direct dialogue with Russian actors; however any of them who were part of the Leave EU gang, and/or worked closely with Dominic Cummings, will need to be scrutinised.Stu_of_Kunming said:So it wasn't "Many Brexit Tory politicians" who actively colluded with Russia during the referendum?
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Lol! These are my friends but, yes. And the really sad thing is that they don't see it.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
You seem to be implying that some people are massive hypocrites - surely not?JorgeCosta said:In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.
One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.
Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.
Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.
A third friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.
My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed eberyone else.0 -
It's almost as bad as Nigel Farage ranting against the EU yet being happy to be an MEP and to take extravagant expenses and a pension from them whilst doing next to nothing. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.JorgeCosta said:
Lol! These are my friends but, yes. And the really sad thing is that they don't see it.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
You seem to be implying that some people are massive hypocrites - surely not?JorgeCosta said:In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.
One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.
Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.
Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.
A third friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.
My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed eberyone else.
The whole Brexit shambles is like a bad dream.2 -
Bizarrely while I didn’t agree with what Benn was proposing I did think his oratory was very good in comparison with modern day standards.
Which are not very good.
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Which is fine, but that wasn't the original accusation, was it? Ridiculous posts, like the original one need calling out, you are quick enough - quite rightly - to ask for sources when you disagree with a post, that's all I did.PragueAddick said:
They may not have actively colluded in the sense of direct dialogue with Russian actors; however any of them who were part of the Leave EU gang, and/or worked closely with Dominic Cummings, will need to be scrutinised.Stu_of_Kunming said:So it wasn't "Many Brexit Tory politicians" who actively colluded with Russia during the referendum?
Anyone colluding with The Russians should 100% face the full force of the law, from both sides of the house, or, in Banks' case, outside the house.4 -
Aaron Banks is even more awful than Farage.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Which is fine, but that wasn't the original accusation, was it? Ridiculous posts, like the original one need calling out, you are quick enough - quite rightly - to ask for sources when you disagree with a post, that's all I did.PragueAddick said:
They may not have actively colluded in the sense of direct dialogue with Russian actors; however any of them who were part of the Leave EU gang, and/or worked closely with Dominic Cummings, will need to be scrutinised.Stu_of_Kunming said:So it wasn't "Many Brexit Tory politicians" who actively colluded with Russia during the referendum?
Anyone colluding with The Russians should 100% face the full force of the law, from both sides of the house, or, in Banks' case, outside the house.0 -
There's an argument to be made that, in a world of propagandising via social media, and the inevitable focus on soundbites for TV and radio, the art of oratory is all but dead. Only at election time or party conferences are some politicians required to give speeches.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
You seemed critical of Corbyn so I assumed you didn't think much of him as a speaker. I then asked you who you think is a good orator? I'm a little unclear what doesn't make sense?Big_Bad_World said:
I'd say your framing of questions is even more bizarre.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I was just asking you who you think is a good political speaker - I didn't realise this was such a difficult question.Big_Bad_World said:
I'll attempt to make it simple for you. Criticising Corbyns speech does not then automatically mean I have a preference or predilection for another political orator.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Not really that curious but obviously I'll have to make it simple for you. You seem to be critical of Corbyn as far as I can see so I was just asking who you think is a good political orator? I'm assuming the question is clear?Big_Bad_World said:
That's because I haven't alluded to anyone falling in to that category. Strange that you took that from my post.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I'm not really clear who you would hold up as an example of great political oratory at present? Boris? Moggy?
Curious.
Again, it's a bit strange that you think the two are mutually exclusive.
Your thought process is f***ing bizarre...
It's quite evident by the construction of your questions that they are somewhat loaded.
Maybe you're right. Maybe it is me. However, I don't believe it is.
If you think Corbyn is a good orator you could maybe tell me I was mistaken in my assumption or alternatively tell me who you think is a good orator?
If you don't want to answer questions that's not a problem. I'm not after an argument.
I think we may need to see a relationship counsellor to work on our communication?
I would also suggest that the rise if career (PPE graduate) politicians has helped limit the numbers of those with real life experience from seeking election.
Most of us can remember politicians, even in the relatively recent past, who were far superior to the current crop. Boris Johnson, for one, would hardly have shone in the 70s and 80s. Although often derided at the time, John Major is a colossus in comparison.
Most active politicians who can speak are shackled by the fear of the consequences.
So, in contrast to his time on the front benches, Gordon Brown's speech on leaving No. 10, or his more recent Scottish Referendum and anti-Semitism interventions have impressed, because he spoke with verve, conviction, belief and, where needed, self deprecation.
I'd also give an honourable mention to Ed Miliband, who now speaks with more coherence than when leader and, on his podcasts and radio, with no little humour.
I honestly believe that they would both have been better served in their political careers, if they could have brought this approach to their leadership.
Although definitely left of centre, I have not been exactly enthused by the standard of much of those Labour speeches I have heard of late. Some of the SNP MPs have been good and, even though our politics are far from the same, I do believe that Anna Soubry is a fine orator, at least in the House.3 -
Because it suits the far left agenda. Read Momentum's twitter site and it feeds off the far right - 'if you don't like Tommy Robinson then you must vote Corbyn'.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Why does criticism of Corbyn automatically mean you support everything The Tories do?ShootersHillGuru said:
You mean like the promises that Tory politicians like Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg and Grayling made and even had painted onto the side of a bus ?Big_Bad_World said:The promise to end the 'greed-is-good' culture was a curious promise to make, if not only because it is completely impossible to end a compensatory human behaviour borne from experiences.
Plenty of other wishy-washy, impossible to implement/deliver on promises. Sounds good, no doubt, though.
There is never mention of centrist Tories (or centrist Labour for that matter) because it would be acknowledging that there may be a more moderate way to bring equality and support the disadvantaged.
The fact that I only seem to have a political choice between the polar opposites of Rees-Mogg/Johnson or Corbyn/McDonnell sickens me. I believe in Lib Dem policies but they have no credibility and I cannot see the emergence of a new centrist party. We are in dark times politically.
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Brilliantly put.charente addick said:
Because it suits the far left agenda. Read Momentum's twitter site and it feeds off the far right - 'if you don't like Tommy Robinson then you must vote Corbyn'.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Why does criticism of Corbyn automatically mean you support everything The Tories do?ShootersHillGuru said:
You mean like the promises that Tory politicians like Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg and Grayling made and even had painted onto the side of a bus ?Big_Bad_World said:The promise to end the 'greed-is-good' culture was a curious promise to make, if not only because it is completely impossible to end a compensatory human behaviour borne from experiences.
Plenty of other wishy-washy, impossible to implement/deliver on promises. Sounds good, no doubt, though.
There is never mention of centrist Tories (or centrist Labour for that matter) because it would be acknowledging that there may be a more moderate way to bring equality and support the disadvantaged.
The fact that I only seem to have a political choice between the polar opposites of Rees-Mogg/Johnson or Corbyn/McDonnell sickens me. I believe in Lib Dem policies but they have no credibility and I cannot see the emergence of a new centrist party. We are in dark times politically.
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JorgeCosta said:
In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.
One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.
Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.
Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.
A fourth friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.
My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed everyone else.
I didn’t think Spain allowed dual nationality. I thought if you took a Spanish passport based on residency you were forced to renounce your British one ? Could be wrong though.
Edit : I’m right for once. Unless your original nationality is from one of a few countries that share ancestral heritage with Spain like the South American countries you must give up your nationality in order to take a spanish passport.
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It paints a black and white picture, you’re for or against us, which is how extremists convert and consolidate their cult. They then fall over themselves to defend corbyn’s indecisions and lack of urgency to criticise Britain’s enemies by saying “its not black and white”. He’s only just today admitted that the skripal poisoning was done by the Russian state.charente addick said:
Because it suits the far left agenda. Read Momentum's twitter site and it feeds off the far right - 'if you don't like Tommy Robinson then you must vote Corbyn'.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Why does criticism of Corbyn automatically mean you support everything The Tories do?ShootersHillGuru said:
You mean like the promises that Tory politicians like Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg and Grayling made and even had painted onto the side of a bus ?Big_Bad_World said:The promise to end the 'greed-is-good' culture was a curious promise to make, if not only because it is completely impossible to end a compensatory human behaviour borne from experiences.
Plenty of other wishy-washy, impossible to implement/deliver on promises. Sounds good, no doubt, though.
There is never mention of centrist Tories (or centrist Labour for that matter) because it would be acknowledging that there may be a more moderate way to bring equality and support the disadvantaged.
The fact that I only seem to have a political choice between the polar opposites of Rees-Mogg/Johnson or Corbyn/McDonnell sickens me. I believe in Lib Dem policies but they have no credibility and I cannot see the emergence of a new centrist party. We are in dark times politically.
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Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.2
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ReallyShootersHillGuru said:Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
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True about Spain not allowing dual nationality although they don't ask people to give in their old passports so it's impossible to enforce. Got three more years until I qualify and thinking about it as, like others have discussed on here, not being able to vote in the country I live in is really annoying.
The idea of a 'citizen' of a country has changed so much in recent years with so many more people moving around for work or other reasons but the system of who can vote for what while resident in a country is in need of quite an overhaul. Don't know how it should be done though!0 - Sponsored links:
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I think it's a bit confusing, perhaps counter-intuitive but whatever is the most sensible citizen v resident etc... the principle should apply that you shouldn't be able to vote in national parliamentary elections in two or more countries.CharltonMadrid said:True about Spain not allowing dual nationality although they don't ask people to give in their old passports so it's impossible to enforce. Got three more years until I qualify and thinking about it as, like others have discussed on here, not being able to vote in the country I live in is really annoying.
The idea of a 'citizen' of a country has changed so much in recent years with so many more people moving around for work or other reasons but the system of who can vote for what while resident in a country is in need of quite an overhaul. Don't know how it should be done though!
The logic for me is you retain the right to vote in the country on your passport (dual nationality is an anathema to me) for national elections and you have the right to vote in your country of permanent residence in local elections.1 -
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.blackpool72 said:
ReallyShootersHillGuru said:Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
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I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle EnglandShootersHillGuru said:
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.blackpool72 said:
ReallyShootersHillGuru said:Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.2 -
You're probably right - when it comes to opinions most people want a fair and just society, but when it comes to voting most say 'f*ck that for a game of soldiers it's going to cost me money'.blackpool72 said:
I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle EnglandShootersHillGuru said:
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.blackpool72 said:
ReallyShootersHillGuru said:Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.3 -
Corbyn will win the tories general elections whilst he’s still leader. A large percentage of the country simply won’t vote for him.blackpool72 said:
I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle EnglandShootersHillGuru said:
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.blackpool72 said:
ReallyShootersHillGuru said:Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.1 -
Thisbobmunro said:
You're probably right - when it comes to opinions most people want a fair and just society, but when it comes to voting most say 'f*ck that for a game of soldiers it's going to cost me money'.blackpool72 said:
I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle EnglandShootersHillGuru said:
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.blackpool72 said:
ReallyShootersHillGuru said:Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.0 -
Sure, take that point, and I only wish to say that there is stuff bubbling under on this, but nothing is concrete, yet.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Which is fine, but that wasn't the original accusation, was it? Ridiculous posts, like the original one need calling out, you are quick enough - quite rightly - to ask for sources when you disagree with a post, that's all I did.PragueAddick said:
They may not have actively colluded in the sense of direct dialogue with Russian actors; however any of them who were part of the Leave EU gang, and/or worked closely with Dominic Cummings, will need to be scrutinised.Stu_of_Kunming said:So it wasn't "Many Brexit Tory politicians" who actively colluded with Russia during the referendum?
Anyone colluding with The Russians should 100% face the full force of the law, from both sides of the house, or, in Banks' case, outside the house.
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That’s very possible but times they are a changing. Ten years of austerity. Brexit fiasco orchestrated with stunning incompetence by the Conservatives and a government literally tearing itself apart. Perhaps a stark choice but don’t forget that Brexit was never going to be voted for and Trump could never become President.kentaddick said:
Corbyn will win the tories general elections whilst he’s still leader. A large percentage of the country simply won’t vote for him.blackpool72 said:
I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle EnglandShootersHillGuru said:
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.blackpool72 said:
ReallyShootersHillGuru said:Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.
Corbyn clawed back a lot of ground against all predictions (including mine) at the last election so I wouldn’t write him off yet.
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Attack dogs?Leuth said:You can tell when Corbyn's done a good speech, because the attack dogs on here suddenly get much more virulent
One of your best.
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I know you cannot be serious, but...kentaddick said:
Ignore foreign policy, what was exactly bad about blair’s Reign?NornIrishAddick said:
Tony Blair was brilliant at making good speeches.Leuth said:You can tell when Corbyn's done a good speech, because the attack dogs on here suddenly get much more virulent
Just sayin'
And, for all that some will believe that what he has said about a possible Brexit outcome today, the EU27 will still only agree to a political statement on a future trading relationship if that recognises the constitutional, legal foundations on which the EU is constructed.
Just as with the Government approach, it is difficult to see how the Labour policy on immigration (as I understand from Diane Abbott's comments this week) would be compatible with the sort of relationship that they say that they want.
I don't want Brexit, naturally, but I also don't want the country governed by political parties that seem utterly incapable of understanding the most basic criteria of the EU when seeking to negotiate the most important Agreement/Treaty in our lifetimes. Anyone would think that the UK had never been a member of the organisation.
A bespoke trade deal (because every trade deal is tailored to the needs of the parties) is available, but the EU will not tear itself apart to achieve one.
Ignoring the half million dead from the Iraq war, obvs
He was a two face Tory.
Deregulation of banks
Disgraceful social house building record.
PFI
Uncontrolled immigration
Chilcott
Selling of playing fields
Introduction of student fees
New Labour was “intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich”, in the famous words of Peter Mandelson,
Dont mention all the other wars
Cambell, Mandelson spin
...and thats just from one Guardian article.
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