The influence of the EU on Britain.

Big_Bad_World said:

bobmunro said:

Big_Bad_World said:

The promise to end the 'greed-is-good' culture was a curious promise to make, if not only because it is completely impossible to end a compensatory human behaviour borne from experiences.

Plenty of other wishy-washy, impossible to implement/deliver on promises. Sounds good, no doubt, though.

I tend to agree - just a soundbite. Perhaps this is another way of saying it:

To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.

Sounds very similar (identical, in fact) to Clause IV of the Labour Constitution of 1918

Also, very soshulist.

kentaddick said:

Covered End said:

Red_in_SE8 said:

kentaddick said:

Red_in_SE8 said:

Credit where credit is due. Corbyn is getting better at this. He is currently delivering an excellent speech. Measured in tone, skilfully delivered and full of relevant and pertinent content setting out the new Labour policy (in contrast to the ridiculous shouty and childish references to Spanish civil war 80 years ago by Emily Thornbury). It is a real shame that he and the Labour leadership have such a blind spot about Brexit and don't seem to realise that after Brexit there will be no scope to finance any of their new policies and they won't be able to protect the working classes who will be most affected by it.

Just don’t ask him about anything he’s done in the past or people and organisations he’s supported.

https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1044620238824910850?s=21

Many Brexit Tory politicians actively colluded with Russia during the referendum so I find this line of criticism a bit rich.

Sorry, but that is a complete LIE. Your credibility is now ZERO.

I think red in se8 expended any credibility months ago.

ShootersHillGuru said:

JorgeCosta said:

In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.

One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.

Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.

Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.

A fourth friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.

My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed everyone else.

I didn’t think Spain allowed dual nationality. I thought if you took a Spanish passport based on residency you were forced to renounce your British one ? Could be wrong though.

Edit : I’m right for once. Unless your original nationality is from one of a few countries that share ancestral heritage with Spain like the South American countries you must give up your nationality in order to take a spanish passport.

ShootersHillGuru said:

JorgeCosta said:

In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.

One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.

Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.

Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.

A fourth friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.

My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed everyone else.

I didn’t think Spain allowed dual nationality. I thought if you took a Spanish passport based on residency you were forced to renounce your British one ? Could be wrong though.

Edit : I’m right for once. Unless your original nationality is from one of a few countries that share ancestral heritage with Spain like the South American countries you must give up your nationality in order to take a spanish passport.

seriously_red said:

Earlier today Bruno Le Maire, the french finance minister, announced that "If we give the idea that we can exit the European Union and keep all of the benefits of the single market then it is the end of Europe" This has been the key to the European position, and has been set out again and again.

May has managed to deliberately avoid this concept as she cobbled together her Chequers plan. If we are to leave, then we have two choices: a Norway model that keep the 4 freedoms or a hard Brexit that will decimate the UK economy. Which option do we think Labour is closer to? Here's a clue: Labour wish that the UK is in "a Customs Union" and have access to the single market, whilst Sir Keir Starmer openly talks to a Norway option.

Labour have avoided the immigration debate because, quite frankly, it's toxic. Only now, two years after the referendum has the electorate's concern about immigration reduced to normal levels after being stoked up by Farage, Johnson, The Mail and Express. Polls show that the electorate is balanced between immigration controls and access to the single market but when faced with all or nothing which way would Labour go? Perhaps we will stay in the EEA and the Alt-right will attempt to rise again with their dog whistle politics? But will people be fooled again?

Most but not all of the electorate know that the Norway option is obviously worse than what we have at present, while the second is a catastrophe. So perhaps staying in the EU is the best option? Or perhaps we leave the EU but stay in the EEA?

For what it's worth Corbyn, McDonnell and Starmer along with the 300 delegates in the composite meeting have now paved the way to play a winning hand over the next few months. For they can now claim that they can both cut a Brexit deal with M.Barnier AND that they may well give the final choice to the people.

There appears to be no deal that exists which is acceptable to M.Barnier, May, the DUP and the ERG and that means that May is headed for "no deal". This in turn puts the Tory remainers in the frame - they are the people who can stop this train wreck. Those on the EU side have offered to extend the October deadline to November giving just two months from today - do we really think May is going to deliver something which is compliant with EU priorities?

ShootersHillGuru said:

Cordoban Addick said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

JorgeCosta said:

In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.

One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.

Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.

Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.

A fourth friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.

My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed everyone else.

I didn’t think Spain allowed dual nationality. I thought if you took a Spanish passport based on residency you were forced to renounce your British one ? Could be wrong though.

Edit : I’m right for once. Unless your original nationality is from one of a few countries that share ancestral heritage with Spain like the South American countries you must give up your nationality in order to take a spanish passport.

Actually you are slightly wrong. Sephardic Jews who can prove that their relatives were expelled from Spain from 1492 onwards can obtain a Spanish passport and keep their old one, but only until Oct 2019.

MuttleyCAFC said:

He might be better laying off the least effective builders.

MuttleyCAFC said:

He might be better laying off the least effective builders.

ShootersHillGuru said:

Paying more tax to fund what the country genuinely needs and makes it a better place to live is not something I have a problem with in any way shape or form.

ShootersHillGuru said:

PragueAddick said:

For a while now I have felt that May should simply go cap in hand to Barnier and ask for an extension to Article 50, because there is absolutely no way that the country can be ready for 29 3.19. Have you noticed just how close that date is now?

That's pretty much what Philip Stephens concludes in today's FT. Most of you of course are not subscribers. It's a long article to cut and paste too. But instead I cut and paste some of the comments, because being the FT, several come from across the Channel. You don't hear these voices in the British media, so here are some now.

Francois P 28 minutes ago
No thanks, Mr Stephens. We citizens of the EU27 aren’t willing to endure the whining of the British any longer. The sooner this farce comes to a close, the better.

Pasquino 1 hour ago
A timeout would be in the UK's interests, but not those of the EU-27. Better to cut off the diseased limb.

Mostly Harmless 1 hour ago
On the continent we just want this to be over asap. Honestly, there is not much goodwill left after 4 decades of moaning and insults and 3 years of a particular bipolar disorder of megalomania and hysteria. Brexit was hybris. The sooner it is exposed as such, the better for all involved.

Till S. 1 hour ago
No, no, no. Get on and be done with it. No more of this madness. Actions like calling an unnecessary referendum or cluelessly triggering a leave process should have, no must have consequences.

You have been taking Europe for fools long enough. Out you go. You need to feel the (hard) consequences now and - hopefully, even though I wouldn't hold my breath - learn your lesson.

"It should be evident by now that Britain is simply not ready for Brexit"

Tough. Who cares? You had enough time.

It’s good to see it in print but it’s obvious that would be the reaction from a large proportion of EU citizens. I’m British and don’t want Brexit but I find it hard to disagree with the above sentiment.