How do the Tories need to change?
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I think you can add to that an ethos of doing the bare minimum that keeps the masses onside under the banner of being responsible whilst maintaining the top bottom gap at all costs by predominantly looking after the interests of the rich and the establishment, dressed up with the mega lie of trickle down wealth. The financial crash was manna from heaven to the Tories. A chance to punish the poorest and most vulnerable and increase the wealth gap. They are very efficient at that.seth plum said:Might be worth repeating this question, but do Tories actually stand for anything?
The only ideology I can discern is the formalisation of selfishness and cold expediency disguised by the false claim that they are living in the real world.
Tories seem to me to be a permanent blank canvas upon which the powerful and rich establishment paint whatever pictures they choose to suit themselves moment by moment.
To me Tories represent the ultimate failure of human collaboration and community.
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This chestnut again.seth plum said:Might be worth repeating this question, but do Tories actually stand for anything?
The only ideology I can discern is the formalisation of selfishness and cold expediency disguised by the false claim that they are living in the real world.
Tories seem to me to be a permanent blank canvas upon which the powerful and rich establishment paint whatever pictures they choose to suit themselves moment by moment.
To me Tories represent the ultimate failure of human collaboration and community.
The reason the tories are the oldest and most successful main political party is precisely because there’s no cast iron ideology to pin them to. This has allowed them to continually adapt and reinvent themselves. Thatcher reinvented the party, but now it seems they’re reinventing themselves to be petty isolationists.3 -
Havn’t you just agreed with @seth plum ?kentaddick said:
This chestnut again.seth plum said:Might be worth repeating this question, but do Tories actually stand for anything?
The only ideology I can discern is the formalisation of selfishness and cold expediency disguised by the false claim that they are living in the real world.
Tories seem to me to be a permanent blank canvas upon which the powerful and rich establishment paint whatever pictures they choose to suit themselves moment by moment.
To me Tories represent the ultimate failure of human collaboration and community.
The reason the tories are the oldest and most successful main political party is precisely because there’s no cast iron ideology to pin them to. This has allowed them to continually adapt and reinvent themselves. Thatcher reinvented the party, but now it seems they’re reinventing themselves to be petty isolationists.
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Successful is a notion up for debate.kentaddick said:
This chestnut again.seth plum said:Might be worth repeating this question, but do Tories actually stand for anything?
The only ideology I can discern is the formalisation of selfishness and cold expediency disguised by the false claim that they are living in the real world.
Tories seem to me to be a permanent blank canvas upon which the powerful and rich establishment paint whatever pictures they choose to suit themselves moment by moment.
To me Tories represent the ultimate failure of human collaboration and community.
The reason the tories are the oldest and most successful main political party is precisely because there’s no cast iron ideology to pin them to. This has allowed them to continually adapt and reinvent themselves. Thatcher reinvented the party, but now it seems they’re reinventing themselves to be petty isolationists.
They have existed a long time no argument there but to me longevity does not equate to success.1 -
The Tory legacy is North Sea oil. While Norway invested for future generations, the Tories have it away in tax cuts.3
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Don't forget the whole baby-eating and killing the poor thing.2
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Tories don’t eat babies or knowingly kill anyone. I do believe however that some of their misguided policies have resulted in deaths. I’m not in any doubt about that.2
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The poor have been supported by food banks.
Now I am not suggesting that the Tories declare 'fuck the food banks' like some might declare 'fuck the NHS', but I know which party politicians who create and support the establishment of food banks in times and areas of great need, which party those politicians come from. In my constituency it is the local Labour party MP.0 -
Well they’re in government and as recently as 2015 had a majority.seth plum said:
Successful is a notion up for debate.kentaddick said:
This chestnut again.seth plum said:Might be worth repeating this question, but do Tories actually stand for anything?
The only ideology I can discern is the formalisation of selfishness and cold expediency disguised by the false claim that they are living in the real world.
Tories seem to me to be a permanent blank canvas upon which the powerful and rich establishment paint whatever pictures they choose to suit themselves moment by moment.
To me Tories represent the ultimate failure of human collaboration and community.
The reason the tories are the oldest and most successful main political party is precisely because there’s no cast iron ideology to pin them to. This has allowed them to continually adapt and reinvent themselves. Thatcher reinvented the party, but now it seems they’re reinventing themselves to be petty isolationists.
They have existed a long time no argument there but to me longevity does not equate to success.
True to an extent however BP are one of the largest (if not the largest) single contributor to the exchequer.harveys_gardener said:The Tory legacy is North Sea oil. While Norway invested for future generations, the Tories have it away in tax cuts.
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I would take issue with the notion of being in Government and being successful, however I acknowledge that if success is measured by winning elections then that is one definition.kentaddick said:
Well they’re in government and as recently as 2015 had a majority.seth plum said:
Successful is a notion up for debate.kentaddick said:
This chestnut again.seth plum said:Might be worth repeating this question, but do Tories actually stand for anything?
The only ideology I can discern is the formalisation of selfishness and cold expediency disguised by the false claim that they are living in the real world.
Tories seem to me to be a permanent blank canvas upon which the powerful and rich establishment paint whatever pictures they choose to suit themselves moment by moment.
To me Tories represent the ultimate failure of human collaboration and community.
The reason the tories are the oldest and most successful main political party is precisely because there’s no cast iron ideology to pin them to. This has allowed them to continually adapt and reinvent themselves. Thatcher reinvented the party, but now it seems they’re reinventing themselves to be petty isolationists.
They have existed a long time no argument there but to me longevity does not equate to success.
True to an extent however BP are one of the largest (if not the largest) single contributor to the exchequer.harveys_gardener said:The Tory legacy is North Sea oil. While Norway invested for future generations, the Tories have it away in tax cuts.
However you originally said that 'The reason the tories are the oldest and most successful main political party is precisely because there’s no cast iron ideology to pin them to.' not that being the most successful is winning elections.
That is the bit that interests me, the lack of ideology that I at least can identify. It is a wonder to me that they have so called success in winning elections when they present no ideological principles to the electorate, but obviously they do. I suppose one conclusion is that those that vote Tory don't really give a shit, and they have enough numbers to win.1 - Sponsored links:
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That's the point.kentaddick said:
Well they’re in government and as recently as 2015 had a majority.seth plum said:
Successful is a notion up for debate.kentaddick said:
This chestnut again.seth plum said:Might be worth repeating this question, but do Tories actually stand for anything?
The only ideology I can discern is the formalisation of selfishness and cold expediency disguised by the false claim that they are living in the real world.
Tories seem to me to be a permanent blank canvas upon which the powerful and rich establishment paint whatever pictures they choose to suit themselves moment by moment.
To me Tories represent the ultimate failure of human collaboration and community.
The reason the tories are the oldest and most successful main political party is precisely because there’s no cast iron ideology to pin them to. This has allowed them to continually adapt and reinvent themselves. Thatcher reinvented the party, but now it seems they’re reinventing themselves to be petty isolationists.
They have existed a long time no argument there but to me longevity does not equate to success.
True to an extent however BP are one of the largest (if not the largest) single contributor to the exchequer.harveys_gardener said:The Tory legacy is North Sea oil. While Norway invested for future generations, the Tories have it away in tax cuts.
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Is that really the best you can do?kentaddick said:
Throwing around personal attacks and retreating back and refusing to explain why. One might mistaken you for a coward.Cordoban Addick said:
You are not worth the effort.kentaddick said:
Lol? How so?Cordoban Addick said:
You are a fraud and a hypocrite.kentaddick said:
making utterly terrible PR mistakes like grandstanding and refusing to apologise and making a massive deal about something that's not really relevant is more of corbyn policy tbh.Callumcafc said:You can refuse to meet with fellow world leaders if you really wanted to make a stand. Taking it to extremes but look at the North Korea situation and there’s plenty more.
Anyway... how do the Tories need to change? Hopefully not into the hands of this lot.
Also, good god, young tories love communism as well? Extraordinary.
Maybe file under "idiot students are idiots on freshers week".0 -
This is why you are a fraud and a hypocrite @kentaddick .kentaddick said:
shock horror leaders of governments meet. Down with this sort of thing.Cordoban Addick said:
No doubt you are horrified by the meeting between Theresa May and Mahathir Mohamad http://www.thesundaily.my/news/2018/09/27/mahathir-meets-three-world-leaders-ahead-un-general-assembly-updated the self confessed anti-semite https://www.timesofisrael.com/malaysian-leader-says-anti-semitism-invented-to-prevent-criticism-of-jews/kentaddick said:
needs more palestine flags and the undertone of intimidation of an ethnic minority imo.Red_in_SE8 said:I will give this to the Tories, they know how to dress for an annual conference in a manner that suggests they are grown adults ready to run the country and not a bunch of hung over students and activists who have never had a proper job! It makes a pleasant change from the DMs, food stained slogan tee-shirts, tattoos, red dyed hair. And that is just the women! Even if every single word they speak is either Brexit bolloxs or hypocritical lies they dress properly for the task of presenting themselves to the nation asking that they should be given the job of running our government again at the next election.
After months of criticising anything you consider anti Semitic on the left it turns out you are OK with Theresa May meeting, shaking hands with and being pictured smiling with somebody who openly describes themselves as anti-Semitic.
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When did I say I was okay with it? It’s just a logical fallacy to compare a backbench mp rubbing shoulders with anti semites who openly want to kill Jews (and do kill Jews) with a head of a government meeting another head of a government who just so happens to be a vile anti Semite.Cordoban Addick said:
This is why you are a fraud and a hypocrite @kentaddick .kentaddick said:
shock horror leaders of governments meet. Down with this sort of thing.Cordoban Addick said:
No doubt you are horrified by the meeting between Theresa May and Mahathir Mohamad http://www.thesundaily.my/news/2018/09/27/mahathir-meets-three-world-leaders-ahead-un-general-assembly-updated the self confessed anti-semite https://www.timesofisrael.com/malaysian-leader-says-anti-semitism-invented-to-prevent-criticism-of-jews/kentaddick said:
needs more palestine flags and the undertone of intimidation of an ethnic minority imo.Red_in_SE8 said:I will give this to the Tories, they know how to dress for an annual conference in a manner that suggests they are grown adults ready to run the country and not a bunch of hung over students and activists who have never had a proper job! It makes a pleasant change from the DMs, food stained slogan tee-shirts, tattoos, red dyed hair. And that is just the women! Even if every single word they speak is either Brexit bolloxs or hypocritical lies they dress properly for the task of presenting themselves to the nation asking that they should be given the job of running our government again at the next election.
After months of criticising anything you consider anti Semitic on the left it turns out you are OK with Theresa May meeting, shaking hands with and being pictured smiling with somebody who openly describes themselves as anti-Semitic.
I’m also unsure on where that leaves your opinion on corbyn’s activities? Is it okay Corbyn and his mates shake hands with anti semites but not may? Doesn’t that make you a hypocrite and a fraud?
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Like i said, you are not worth the effort.kentaddick said:
When did I say I was okay with it? It’s just a logical fallacy to compare a backbench mp rubbing shoulders with anti semites who openly want to kill Jews (and do kill Jews) with a head of a government meeting another head of a government who just so happens to be a vile anti Semite.Cordoban Addick said:
This is why you are a fraud and a hypocrite @kentaddick .kentaddick said:
shock horror leaders of governments meet. Down with this sort of thing.Cordoban Addick said:
No doubt you are horrified by the meeting between Theresa May and Mahathir Mohamad http://www.thesundaily.my/news/2018/09/27/mahathir-meets-three-world-leaders-ahead-un-general-assembly-updated the self confessed anti-semite https://www.timesofisrael.com/malaysian-leader-says-anti-semitism-invented-to-prevent-criticism-of-jews/kentaddick said:
needs more palestine flags and the undertone of intimidation of an ethnic minority imo.Red_in_SE8 said:I will give this to the Tories, they know how to dress for an annual conference in a manner that suggests they are grown adults ready to run the country and not a bunch of hung over students and activists who have never had a proper job! It makes a pleasant change from the DMs, food stained slogan tee-shirts, tattoos, red dyed hair. And that is just the women! Even if every single word they speak is either Brexit bolloxs or hypocritical lies they dress properly for the task of presenting themselves to the nation asking that they should be given the job of running our government again at the next election.
After months of criticising anything you consider anti Semitic on the left it turns out you are OK with Theresa May meeting, shaking hands with and being pictured smiling with somebody who openly describes themselves as anti-Semitic.
I’m also unsure on where that leaves your opinion on corbyn’s activities? Is it okay Corbyn and his mates shake hands with anti semites but not may? Doesn’t that make you a hypocrite and a fraud?0 -
So it is okay that Corbyn cohorts with anti semites but not may? Good to know your position.Cordoban Addick said:
Like i said, you are not worth the effort.kentaddick said:
When did I say I was okay with it? It’s just a logical fallacy to compare a backbench mp rubbing shoulders with anti semites who openly want to kill Jews (and do kill Jews) with a head of a government meeting another head of a government who just so happens to be a vile anti Semite.Cordoban Addick said:
This is why you are a fraud and a hypocrite @kentaddick .kentaddick said:
shock horror leaders of governments meet. Down with this sort of thing.Cordoban Addick said:
No doubt you are horrified by the meeting between Theresa May and Mahathir Mohamad http://www.thesundaily.my/news/2018/09/27/mahathir-meets-three-world-leaders-ahead-un-general-assembly-updated the self confessed anti-semite https://www.timesofisrael.com/malaysian-leader-says-anti-semitism-invented-to-prevent-criticism-of-jews/kentaddick said:
needs more palestine flags and the undertone of intimidation of an ethnic minority imo.Red_in_SE8 said:I will give this to the Tories, they know how to dress for an annual conference in a manner that suggests they are grown adults ready to run the country and not a bunch of hung over students and activists who have never had a proper job! It makes a pleasant change from the DMs, food stained slogan tee-shirts, tattoos, red dyed hair. And that is just the women! Even if every single word they speak is either Brexit bolloxs or hypocritical lies they dress properly for the task of presenting themselves to the nation asking that they should be given the job of running our government again at the next election.
After months of criticising anything you consider anti Semitic on the left it turns out you are OK with Theresa May meeting, shaking hands with and being pictured smiling with somebody who openly describes themselves as anti-Semitic.
I’m also unsure on where that leaves your opinion on corbyn’s activities? Is it okay Corbyn and his mates shake hands with anti semites but not may? Doesn’t that make you a hypocrite and a fraud?0 -
I feel like my CL survivor series has taken on a new twist. Kent Addick going toe to toe with Greenie and Cordoban runs into the ring and smashes him over the head with a steel chair0
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With a menorah tbf0
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I'm going for a royal rumble.cabbles said:I feel like my CL survivor series has taken on a new twist. Kent Addick going toe to toe with Greenie and Cordoban runs into the ring and smashes him over the head with a steel chair
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BY GAWD ITS THE STEEL CHAIR0
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It's all kicking off and for once I'm not involved :-)
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Which is more than possible, but the Tories are running away with it, Corbyn is a dead duck so there's no debate to be had really ;-)cabbles said:
You and Mutts aren’t done by a long shot, there’s plenty more debate over tax to be done imo. This forum could explode were we to get a general election next yearRob7Lee said:It's all kicking off and for once I'm not involved :-)
Although with the budget/Autumn statement less than 3 weeks away I think it could get spiced up a bit.
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Last time I looked the post conference polls had Labour ahead. Not that it matters - Labour don't have to win an election for Corbyn to be PM. That important point keeps getting missed.1
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... yes they do.MuttleyCAFC said:Last time I looked the post conference polls had Labour ahead. Not that it matters - Labour don't have to win an election for Corbyn to be PM. That important point keeps getting missed.
Unless you want him to undemocratically seize power.0 -
No they don't. If it weren't for the DUP he would be Prime Minister now! That isn't a political point, just a statement of fact. It would probably be a more democratic government seeing as other parties will have more ability to influence it!4
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incorrect.MuttleyCAFC said:No they don't. If it weren't for the DUP he would be Prime Minister now! That isn't a political point, just a statement of fact. It would probably be a more democratic government seeing as other parties will have more ability to influence it!
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Err, no he wouldn't.MuttleyCAFC said:No they don't. If it weren't for the DUP he would be Prime Minister now! That isn't a political point, just a statement of fact. It would probably be a more democratic government seeing as other parties will have more ability to influence it!
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what would have happened is may would've been unable to pass the queen's speech. Which would then have triggered another general election. Then who knows? But it would have required labour to have more seats than anyone else, or may would have seeked to form a government again. So yes, he does need to win an election.0
