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Formula 1 Thread
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Have a fair amount of time for Vettel but showed himself up as a petulant wanker today.
However unfair he might think it is, he stopped Lewis overtaking him when he cut in front of him.1 -
Unsafe re-entry. I've always said that's a risky thing to do.
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Yep.DaveMehmet said:Have a fair amount of time for Vettel but showed himself up as a petulant wanker today.
However unfair he might think it is, he stopped Lewis overtaking him when he cut in front of him.
Whatever people think of Hamilton, he’s come out of this very well. Modest and apologetic in victory.
Vettel will get sympathy, but also made himself look like a bit of a prick. And he did make a driving error, which is ultimately what cost him.2 -
To me it looks like riding across the track like that was the result of recovering the mistake. If so how could he have avoided it, was he supposed to try and stop on the grass? Just seems like they've just sided with Lewis.lordromford said:
I agree to an extent, but I also think his mistake was that he was trying to both recover and stay ahead of Hamilton, and he couldn’t do both without endangering Hamilton. That’s my best interpretation of the stewards decision. Not saying I agree necessarily.Leeds_Addick said:
He might've lost control but he recovered it, ridiculous decision. Season is boring enough as it is and as soon we get an interesting race they ruin it.lordromford said:I’m torn on this one. The footage is inconclusive to me. I do think he could’ve done more (after making a mistake) to avoid squeezing Hamilton out, but I don’t think it’s clear enough to penalise.
I want Hamilton to win, so I’m pleased, but it does seem to have ruined the race.
Having said that, Vettel saying “They’re stealing the win from us” makes him sound like a spoilt brat. I would say that losing control at the chicane where the incident happened is what lost you the race, mate.
I do think it was harsh.
Having said all that, Vettel’s histrionics at the end are starting to piss me off. Grow up you big baby.
You could argue for both drivers and I think in that situation the decision should be the one that promotes racing and if they'd done that we'd have seen a much better ending.1 -
@Chizz and @DaveMehmet appear to have swapped logins.Chizz said:Unsafe re-entry. I've always said that's a risky thing to do.4 -
Absolutely right that you could argue for both drivers.Leeds_Addick said:
To me it looks like riding across the track like that was the result of recovering the mistake. If so how could he have avoided it, was he supposed to try and stop on the grass? Just seems like they've just sided with Lewis.lordromford said:
I agree to an extent, but I also think his mistake was that he was trying to both recover and stay ahead of Hamilton, and he couldn’t do both without endangering Hamilton. That’s my best interpretation of the stewards decision. Not saying I agree necessarily.Leeds_Addick said:
He might've lost control but he recovered it, ridiculous decision. Season is boring enough as it is and as soon we get an interesting race they ruin it.lordromford said:I’m torn on this one. The footage is inconclusive to me. I do think he could’ve done more (after making a mistake) to avoid squeezing Hamilton out, but I don’t think it’s clear enough to penalise.
I want Hamilton to win, so I’m pleased, but it does seem to have ruined the race.
Having said that, Vettel saying “They’re stealing the win from us” makes him sound like a spoilt brat. I would say that losing control at the chicane where the incident happened is what lost you the race, mate.
I do think it was harsh.
Having said all that, Vettel’s histrionics at the end are starting to piss me off. Grow up you big baby.
You could argue for both drivers and I think in that situation the decision should be the one that promotes racing and if they'd done that we'd have seen a much better ending.
Your argument for Vettel is fair enough, but at the same time, Vettel’s car being in the way whilst, as is being argued, he was not in control of it was the only thing that stopped Hamilton overtaking him as it forced Hamilton to slow. With this in mind I think Hamilton winning was the correct result. The shame is that Hamilton didn’t need to overtake at the end, so we were denied a proper slugfest.0 -
You know what, looking back at it, I think a more appropriate ruling might have been to tell Vettel to allow Hamilton through, (like when you gain a place after leaving the track and gaining an advantage - which frankly is what he did) then they could’ve resumed the battle, but with positions reversed.5
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When the decision was announced I was annoyed, but in hindsight he made a mistake. I agree there was no where else to go, but it forced Lewis to brake hard in a shit area of the track - which gave him an advantage that a mistake should not warrant.Leeds_Addick said:
He might've lost control but he recovered it, ridiculous decision. Season is boring enough as it is and as soon we get an interesting race they ruin it.lordromford said:I’m torn on this one. The footage is inconclusive to me. I do think he could’ve done more (after making a mistake) to avoid squeezing Hamilton out, but I don’t think it’s clear enough to penalise.
I want Hamilton to win, so I’m pleased, but it does seem to have ruined the race.
Having said that, Vettel saying “They’re stealing the win from us” makes him sound like a spoilt brat. I would say that losing control at the chicane where the incident happened is what lost you the race, mate.
It did make the race less interesting at the end, but the point that Hamilton put him under pressure which led to the mistake is fair IMO, and I think that it is also the case that the opportunity to pass him was lost at that point.
Vettel should be more annoyed at his own mistake, if he had not made it, it would not have been left to the stewards to sort out.3 -
Vettel has made yet another mistake when under pressure from Lewis..... it’s been a consistent pattern from the last few years. Imo he could have lifted upon rejoining but the decision he alone made meant that the near collision was the end result.
Correct penalty but I did feel sorry for him - until his show of acting like a petulant prick at the end. Moving the number in front of Lewis’ car was embarrassing3 -
I think you can liken it to a handball in football. The laws of the game mean that a penalty can be given even if the player did not intend to handle it. I think today was about the interpretation of the rules which technically Vettel broke although I don't think he meant to.
Am I a fan of the handball laws? No. Am I in agreement of this law? No, if it is accidental, but I think the law doesn't specify intent and Vettel's re-entry on the track was unsafe. You could say he was lucky not to hit the wall, so it is swings and roundabouts really. He made a mistake and he should have factored that into his reaction a little. Not saying he wasn't right to feel hard done by, but he went over the top a bit! He will probably get a fine and IMO he deserves one.1 - Sponsored links:
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But there isnt a penalty for dangerous re-entry of swapping places with someone.lordromford said:You know what, looking back at it, I think a more appropriate ruling might have been to tell Vettel to allow Hamilton through, (like when you gain a place after leaving the track and gaining an advantage - which frankly is what he did) then they could’ve resumed the battle, but with positions reversed.
He wasnt penalised for stopping Hamilton from passing. He was penalised for for dangerous driving that forces Hamilton to take evasive action.0 -
He was penalised for re-entering the track, after going off it, on the racing line. Which he did and nearly forced Hamilton (who did nothing wrong) out. It would be harsh to assume he meant to based on the footage, but he did do it thanks to his error, which he paid for. The rule may be unfair, but it is the rule and those officiating on it shouldn't be blamed!1
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Seb actually said during the rant on the radio that if he had stayed left Lewis would have passed. Think that makes it clear that he had some element of control and the punishment was correct.MuttleyCAFC said:He was penalised for re-entering the track, after going off it, on the racing line. Which he did and nearly forced Hamilton (who did nothing wrong) out. It would be harsh to assume he meant to based on the footage, but he did do it thanks to his error, which he paid for. The rule may be unfair, but it is the rule and those officiating on it shouldn't be blamed!3 -
If there wasn't a wall, Hamilton would have passed. He didn't mean to impede Hamilton and force him to go hard on his breaks IMO, but he did. Another football analogy is giving away a foul when you might not mean to. If the rule was changed, fair enough, but he was done by the rules as they are.1
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I think that he meant if Lewis had stayed to the left then he would have passed him. It was, however, impossible for Lewis to have stayed to the left.cafcpolo said:
Seb actually said during the rant on the radio that if he had stayed left Lewis would have passed. Think that makes it clear that he had some element of control and the punishment was correct.MuttleyCAFC said:He was penalised for re-entering the track, after going off it, on the racing line. Which he did and nearly forced Hamilton (who did nothing wrong) out. It would be harsh to assume he meant to based on the footage, but he did do it thanks to his error, which he paid for. The rule may be unfair, but it is the rule and those officiating on it shouldn't be blamed!
It is clear to me that Vettel made a mistake and impeded the driver behind him, Hamilton. It was not intentional but still impeded Hamilton. It was much the same as gaining/maintaining a position when leaving the track. He should have given up the position on the track to avoid a penalty.1 -
Yeah, I know. I’m just looking for a way that he could’ve been penalised that didn’t mean loads of people were complaining about the race being ruined.MrOneLung said:
But there isnt a penalty for dangerous re-entry of swapping places with someone.lordromford said:You know what, looking back at it, I think a more appropriate ruling might have been to tell Vettel to allow Hamilton through, (like when you gain a place after leaving the track and gaining an advantage - which frankly is what he did) then they could’ve resumed the battle, but with positions reversed.
He wasnt penalised for stopping Hamilton from passing. He was penalised for for dangerous driving that forces Hamilton to take evasive action.
The point is that his mistake should’ve meant he surrendered the lead, but he didn’t. (A driver is not allowed to gain an advantage from leaving the track. Vettel gained an advantage by not surrendering the lead, which he would’ve done had he not impeded Hamilton, deliberately or not). So I’m suggesting that a more racing friendly ruling might’ve been for the stewards to order him to allow Hamilton past. Then racing could’ve resumed and there wouldn’t be an outcry about “not letting them race”.
At the end of the day I think Hamilton winning (or rather, Vettel not winning) was the right result, but Vettel has somehow turned it into both a PR Victory (due to widespread sympathy) and a PR disaster (due to being a spoilt brat having a tantrum.)
All could’ve been avoided.
Having said all that, there’s been more talk about this race than any other so far this year, so it’s obviously stoked more interest, not less.
Gotta love a bit of controversy...
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Precisely.superclive98 said:
I think that he meant if Lewis had stayed to the left then he would have passed him. It was, however, impossible for Lewis to have stayed to the left.cafcpolo said:
Seb actually said during the rant on the radio that if he had stayed left Lewis would have passed. Think that makes it clear that he had some element of control and the punishment was correct.MuttleyCAFC said:He was penalised for re-entering the track, after going off it, on the racing line. Which he did and nearly forced Hamilton (who did nothing wrong) out. It would be harsh to assume he meant to based on the footage, but he did do it thanks to his error, which he paid for. The rule may be unfair, but it is the rule and those officiating on it shouldn't be blamed!
It is clear to me that Vettel made a mistake and impeded the driver behind him, Hamilton. It was not intentional but still impeded Hamilton. It was much the same as gaining/maintaining a position when leaving the track. He should have given up the position on the track to avoid a penalty.0 -
Agreed. Utterly pathetic that. The actions of a bratty, selfish, spoilt toddler.DamoNorthStand said:Vettel has made yet another mistake when under pressure from Lewis..... it’s been a consistent pattern from the last few years. Imo he could have lifted upon rejoining but the decision he alone made meant that the near collision was the end result.
Correct penalty but I did feel sorry for him - until his show of acting like a petulant prick at the end. Moving the number in front of Lewis’ car was embarrassing0 -
Ferrari have submitted their intention to appeal against the decision to punish Sebastian Vettel with a five-second penalty that cost him victory in the Canadian Grand Prix.
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Never going to get overturned. Any appeal is for the purpose of making a point, nothing more.oohaahmortimer said:Ferrari have submitted their intention to appeal against the decision to punish Sebastian Vettel with a five-second penalty that cost him victory in the Canadian Grand Prix.
Even if it were, it couldn’t stick anyway because Mercedes would argue that Hamilton didn’t push as hard at the end because he didn’t need to.0 - Sponsored links:
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Frivolous.oohaahmortimer said:Ferrari have submitted their intention to appeal against the decision to punish Sebastian Vettel with a five-second penalty that cost him victory in the Canadian Grand Prix.
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I didn’t think you could appeal a time penalty oven after the race finishes but announced during the race - due to that exact reason.... that drivers will be competing in the knowledge that a penalty has been given and will be taking that into account0
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0j3yxNJDV3o&feature=youtu.be
Excellent view by F1 journalist Peter Windsor2 -
All of these ex drivers moaning about the decision, would have been complaining if they were in Hamilton's car at the time. Also, drivers get paid a lot of money and I think some of them forget it. They seemed to forget it yesterday anyway. Whether fair or not, Vettel's reaction was childlike as the rules were simply being applied. Try to get the rule changed, but footballers have to accept it, why doesn't Vettel. I think his behaviour was disrespectful and demands punishment.3
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Yes, I agree with Peter Windsor totally. Whether the rule is wrong or not, it is the rule that was applied. Is Vettel at the front of the queue complaining when other drivers are punished by an unfair rule, or is it only when he falls foul of one? The fact is, Hamilton did nothing wrong, actually I would go further and say he showed great restraint, when Vettel moved the first place sign in front of Hamilton's car that was very rude and disrespectful.DamoNorthStand said:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0j3yxNJDV3o&feature=youtu.be
Excellent view by F1 journalist Peter Windsor3 -
BTW - I think Hamilton will want a move to Ferrari (as long as they remain competitive) at some point in the nearish future. Ferrari need to be doing everything they can to try to make that happen sooner rather than later.1
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MuttleyCAFC said:BTW - I think Hamilton will want a move to Ferrari (as long as they remain competitive) at some point in the nearish future. Ferrari need to be doing everything they can to try to make that happen sooner rather than later.
If he managed to bring a title to Maranello as well that truly would cement his status as the best of all time quite honestly0 -
Which is his target I'm sure.0
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Lewis' only target is race victories and World titles. He will only look to move to Ferrari if he feels that Mercedes are no longer competitive.
You have to remember that ever since he started in F1 in 2007 he has always had a Mercedes engine.0 -
Jolyon Palmer has it spot on here.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48583803
Among other things, he highlights the near identical incident: https://youtu.be/jgOVofdZjv4
between Verstappen and Raikonnen last year, where Verstappen also left and rejoined the track and also received a 5 second penalty. Ferrari (Raikonnen’s team at the time) conveniently didn’t dispute that decision. Not only that, Vettel himself came out in support of the penalty saying that the following driver shouldn’t have to take evasive action as a result of the leading drivers error.
Palmer also makes the great point that Vettel’s histrionics are a manipulative stunt, making sure all of the headlines were about how hard done by he is and using the outrage of fans wanting to see a good hard fought race, to distract from the fact that he himself was entirely to blame for losing the race.
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