Charlton v Brentford | Sat 24 Aug | 3pm KO | POST-MATCH THREAD

razil said:

Weegie Addick said:

letthegoodtimesroll said:

razil said:

Think Sarr played better in the Forest game as we weren’t playing it out from the back in the deck  so much - need to mix up how we play out it/big kicks from the keeper rather than all one or the other.

Agree the potential shown in the Forest game shows promise, and that is why momentum is so important.

The squads above (below at the moment) us are bloated but ours is still a little thin quality wise which could be quite exposed with a few injuries.

How is our squad ‘thin quality wise’ ???

We're a bit thin at both right back and left back, I'd say.

Strikers too I’d say

Scoham said:

These last two games have given me even more confidence we'll at least be comfortable in mid table this season. The squad Bowyer and Gallen have put together has so much to it and in our first few games they've show different sides to them.

- We'll match any team in the league for work rate and commitment
- We might not be the number one team in terms of fitness in the league but we'll be up there, it's something Bowyer really values
- We can play exciting football and at times will be the team dominating possession
- We create quality chances in open play and have a decent threat from set pieces
- There's a good mix of skill, creativity, energy, aggression and physicality across the squad
- We have more depth than we've previously had since RD came in, and we're looking to add a right back to it, possibly Mears or Matthews. Big if Page stays fit and we sign a right back we'll have two per position plus an extra midfielder or two, depending who goes out on loan
- The extra depth should mean fewer injuries, Williams for example can be rested with Oztumer coming in as a like for like swap, or Aneke for a more physical number 10
- Bowyer is flexible with formations and style of play, both  for each game and during the game itself
- We still haven't seen Kayal who Bowyer was very excited to sign, and there's far more to come from Hemed. The squad depth has meant we haven't had to throw them straight in and we should eventually see the benefit of that
- Bowyer has high standards and expects us to compete. We can't use the owner, budget or anything else as an excuse

It's not often we have so much going for us, pre Bowyer we haven't had this since Powell. Even then that was done with a lot hard working but limited players such as Pritchard, Wagstaff, Church, Hughes, Cousins and Wilson. All played a big part while Powell was here, but top Championship clubs were never going to be after them. Many of the younger players in this squad have potential for that level and more.

I can't see a reason to worry about a relegation battle, or why individual players won't handle this league. In the last month or so I've seen Solly written off and doubts about new signings such as Lockyer and Oshilaja. One point I left off the list was the way Bowyer showed last season we can improve players. We're second and unbeaten with a squad put together very late on in the window, with many of them new to this league. How good might we be once players are more settled and have had regular coaching from Bowyer and his staff?

While wage bill is a good indicator of where a club is likely to finish, I don't feel it applies to the Championship quite in the same way it does in the Premier League. I'm sure the quality of the league has improved in recent years, but not in line with the amounts being spent. There's plenty of ordinary players out there who must be on far bigger wages than we pay. For all the money Brentford spent they're still lacking goalscorers, possession alone doesn't win games. We saw that ourselves on Wednesday. Stay up and stick with the same budget it may well catch up with us, but for now we've found a way to compete and potentially far more than that.

killerandflash said:

soapy_jones said:

mendonca said:

Just mowed the lawn and came back in with increased understanding of our lads yday!

A very keen observation sir.  I got up at 11.00 had a shit, shower and shave and left the flat.  Back indoors after 45 minutes, too hot!

Feck running around for 90 minutes in it.

Must have been a bad one if you had to give it 45 minutes

Exiled_Addick said:

Scoham said:

These last two games have given me even more confidence we'll at least be comfortable in mid table this season. The squad Bowyer and Gallen have put together has so much to it and in our first few games they've show different sides to them.

- We'll match any team in the league for work rate and commitment
- We might not be the number one team in terms of fitness in the league but we'll be up there, it's something Bowyer really values
- We can play exciting football and at times will be the team dominating possession
- We create quality chances in open play and have a decent threat from set pieces
- There's a good mix of skill, creativity, energy, aggression and physicality across the squad
- We have more depth than we've previously had since RD came in, and we're looking to add a right back to it, possibly Mears or Matthews. Big if Page stays fit and we sign a right back we'll have two per position plus an extra midfielder or two, depending who goes out on loan
- The extra depth should mean fewer injuries, Williams for example can be rested with Oztumer coming in as a like for like swap, or Aneke for a more physical number 10
- Bowyer is flexible with formations and style of play, both  for each game and during the game itself
- We still haven't seen Kayal who Bowyer was very excited to sign, and there's far more to come from Hemed. The squad depth has meant we haven't had to throw them straight in and we should eventually see the benefit of that
- Bowyer has high standards and expects us to compete. We can't use the owner, budget or anything else as an excuse

It's not often we have so much going for us, pre Bowyer we haven't had this since Powell. Even then that was done with a lot hard working but limited players such as Pritchard, Wagstaff, Church, Hughes, Cousins and Wilson. All played a big part while Powell was here, but top Championship clubs were never going to be after them. Many of the younger players in this squad have potential for that level and more.

I can't see a reason to worry about a relegation battle, or why individual players won't handle this league. In the last month or so I've seen Solly written off and doubts about new signings such as Lockyer and Oshilaja. One point I left off the list was the way Bowyer showed last season we can improve players. We're second and unbeaten with a squad put together very late on in the window, with many of them new to this league. How good might we be once players are more settled and have had regular coaching from Bowyer and his staff?

While wage bill is a good indicator of where a club is likely to finish, I don't feel it applies to the Championship quite in the same way it does in the Premier League. I'm sure the quality of the league has improved in recent years, but not in line with the amounts being spent. There's plenty of ordinary players out there who must be on far bigger wages than we pay. For all the money Brentford spent they're still lacking goalscorers, possession alone doesn't win games. We saw that ourselves on Wednesday. Stay up and stick with the same budget it may well catch up with us, but for now we've found a way to compete and potentially far more than that.

The one thing I would say here, to temper expectations, is we are still a relative surprise to teams. Tactics, team selection, how effective the younger players or those stepping up divisions would be, and to extent still are, unknowns - even to Bowyer. As the season wears on opposition analysts will have more data to look at and teams will be able to prepare better for facing us.

It’s been a terrific start, but I still believe the only target this season is survival from relegation. I’m like you in that I think we will achieve that with a bit to spare but I hope fans are keeping their feet on the ground. It’d be sad if we do hit bad patch and things in the crowd turn sour because we’ve fallen away from the newly set high bar of top half or higher. 

harveys_gardener said:

One reason for the pressure yesterday, is that Pearce defends 10 yards deeper which creates huge gaps in midfield.

Blucher said:

That felt like an FA Cup 3rd Round tie (in surreal, January sweltering heat), with Charlton playing a team a division above them. Brentford totally dominated the game but created relatively little in the way of clear chances, given their vast amount of possession. Watkins looked lively but they look as if they are paying the price for selling their top scorer for £20 million and failing to replace him.

We struggled from the start, looking very leggy, and were outnumbered and outwitted in midfield by Brentford’s slick and fluid play. To his credit, Lee Bowyer managed to stem the tide with a change of shape, with 3 at the back and the full backs pushing on. A couple of moments of magic from Jonny Williams and Gallagher saw us ahead at the break.

I thought we started the first five minutes of the second half well, with Hemed putting in a few decent challenges and Lyle just failing to get on the end of a fizzing cross from Ben Purrington. Normal service was, however, resumed and Brentford really started to turn the screw, targeting the right flank of our defence, in particular. George Lapslie found himself under intense pressure and frequently overloaded, with Brentford’s left back an auxiliary winger, but we somehow kept them out with some heroic defending and great blocks, notably from Pearce and Lockyer.

A very fortunate result but a gutsy rearguard action yielded another priceless 3 points -  11 down, 39 to go. Let’s get to 50 and see how much further we can go.

A result at Reading will put the seal on a great opening month, which has exceeded all expectations. Thereafter, the international break will give the regular players a breather and some of the others a chance to get fit and integrate further into the squad. 

StevieKielyStanwat said:

I have said it before @soapboxsam but Hemed's tackle is arguably the best I have ever seen. The attacker is two yards away from an open goal with the ball all but at his feet. How Hemed gets round him without giving a pen away is amazing; simply shower more desire than the attacker.

razil said:

Think Sarr played better in the Forest game as we weren’t playing it out from the back in the deck  so much - need to mix up how we play out it/big kicks from the keeper rather than all one or the other.

Agree the potential shown in the Forest game shows promise, and that is why momentum is so important.

The squads above (below at the moment) us are bloated but ours is still a little thin quality wise which could be quite exposed with a few injuries.

Oggy Red said:

SDAddick said:

Oggy Red said:

SDAddick said:

JamesSeed said:

Where was Naby? We surrendered possession for most of the match, and it was the complete opposite of the first forty five minutes v. Forest. 

Yes, bodies were put on the line, and it was a valiant defensive performance, but we were very lucky to get anything from the game. The heat definitely didn’t help, and we generally looked a little lethargic. I’m assuming Otzumer wasn’t ready to play again, but a player like that who’s great in tight areas, would have been useful. 
Brentford's back four were superb.  

In a backs to the wall type of last 20 minutes, Pearce is excellent. But the overall lack of quality in build up is why I believe Sarr fits better with how Bowyer wants to play, and would have helped us play more on the front foot. Pearce isn't good on the ball, and he tends to play very deep. Was excellent today, but I think Nabs deserves a shot in a back four.

Pearce was my MOTM by the way. 

But Pearce is the leader.

And plays by example.

All the while the new players are settling in and buying into Bow's ethos, the team finding it's feet in the Championship and the players building self-belief ..... then we need the organisation and leadership of Pearce.


I believe many would agree with you that Sarr fits in better with how Bowyer ideally wants to play - the Nabster played an integral part in our exhibition passing game against Forest; he'll step in when Pearce is rested and to suit a certain game plan.

If team building was a case of selecting your 11 most talented players it would be simple.
But a team like that might well be without the grit, tenacity, graft and leadership that is needed.

It's always a question of balance. As Lawrie McMenemy once said, "in every team you need 9 virtuoso and 2 roadsweepers".

And Curbs: "I expect my team to perform greater than its sum of parts".

Bowyer seems to have the same philosophy.

All great points. And what I should have added in my comment, and which I usually do when discussing Pearce, is something to the effect of "he is the captain and clearly a leader and how that impacts a team is hard for me to gauge from a distance." 

And obviously, it's a good problem to have. Love him though I do, Naby wouldn't necessarily be in the team every week for me, I just think he'd be in the team more than he has been. Against Barnsley, for example, where we struggled in the first 60 minutes of so because they pressed us the same way they pressed us last season, and Conor Chaplain pressed us the same way he did for Coventry last season, and they really kept us from playing. For me, that's where Naby's ability on the ball is better suited (and Naby was suspended last year for the game away to Coventry in what was arguably our worst showing). Today, even though we were at home, it's clear Brentford like to have a lot of the ball, and I think to an extent Bows and Jacko were happy to let them have it--probably not to the extent that they did, but still. And when that's the case, if you're going to put men behind the ball and defend deep, that's where Pearce can be a real asset. 

Again, I don't want it going unremarked, Pearce was excellent today. 

You did finish your original post, saying: "Pearce was my MOTM by the way". 

It wasn't unnoticed, SD. I just wanted to discuss your argument why Sarr should be in the team instead of Pearce. Bowyer will pick Sarr when he wants to change the game plan (perhaps depending on how opponents set up) or just to rest Pearce to allow him extra recovery - as he also did with Pratley in mid-week v Forest. Got to look after the old-timers!