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Fires in Australia
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The situation here has been on the cards now for the last three years. We are in a drought. I live but an hour north of Sydney and we haven’t had any significant rainfall since February and that was way below normal averages. Other parts of NSW haven’t had rain in three years. The Green Party lobbied to stop back burning, the most idiotic of a decision from a country fraught with idiotic decision makers who value money above
people’s lives and welfare. Sydney’s water reserve is now under 20%. Towns in Far north west NSW run out of town water back in February 2019 and rely on water being tankered in from elsewhere. I had five greenish acres which now resembles dusty weetabix. Trees are dying, huge cracks appearing from the roots upwards on my Lemon gums. The biggest fire in the country covering over 1200 square miles rages just 12 miles from my doorstep. The danger here is very real and smoke apart everywhere you go you keep an eye on the Bush land around you. Despite this, life goes on and people are very supportive of the firefighters and the poor farmers who have been slowly watching their livestock die before there very eyes, first from a lack of water and feed and now from grass fires ravaging the landscape. To coin a pun it really is a perfect storm here right now. You know you’re in trouble when the top firefighters say we cannot stop the fire spreading, it’s totally unstoppable and out of control. The only thing that will help now is rain. It rained briefly for an hour on the 27th November, before that I honestly cannot remember. Tomorrow like last week we have a 60% chance of rain, but I’m pretty sure as per last week we won’t see a single drop. In summary it’s a combination of drought, extremely high temperatures (49.5c here on Saturday) and green policies combining to make Australia a tinderbox right now. 500 million animals dead 20 + people dead or missing, 100’s of homes destroyed and still two months of summer to endure. It’s a pretty scary place at the moment. Not sure if the map will post but you can see the extent of the fire marked in darker green on the map. I’m the blue dot. At the end of the day if the fire bridges the Hawkesbury, it will be time to grab the dogs and a few important possessions and head into Sydney. Hopefully it won’t come to that. 6 -
Australia is a country with a higher GDP per capita then the UK, virtually no budget deficit and double the economic growth. We’re not talking about a country that can’t and couldn’t cope with the right leadership or political will4
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Is GDP per capita really relevant when dealing with a global issue?Rothko said:Australia is a country with a higher GDP per capita then the UK, virtually no budget deficit and double the economic growth. We’re not talking about a country that can’t and couldn’t cope with the right leadership or political will0 -
JamesSeed said:I have friends and relatives in Australia who are now thinking of leaving the country. It's only likely to get worse, and with a carbon based economy (coal exports being critical) the future looks grim. I agree with the idea of sending aid. How many billions were raised for the restoration of a cathedral?
I was listening to Jeremy Vine last week, he had a climate expert on who made the claim that if nothing is done and as soon as yesterday then there is a very real chance that Australia will be uninhabitable in fifty to a hundred years time.0 -
Even in NZ (approx 1400 miles away) we now see the smoke from the bushfires. The sky had a strange orangey colour this afternoon.
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Ok, here is my point, not so much for you, but the people above who wanted to turn this into political point scoring about the UK foreign aid budget and where it goes.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Is GDP per capita really relevant when dealing with a global issue?Rothko said:Australia is a country with a higher GDP per capita then the UK, virtually no budget deficit and double the economic growth. We’re not talking about a country that can’t and couldn’t cope with the right leadership or political will
There is one thing I might agree with those guys on, if the thread was about that, which it is not. The money from such budgets too often gets into the wrong hands. Why? Because by their nature, it has to go to the national governments. You can't dictate how it will be used, still less supervise that. Sovereignty, dontcha' know.
If we sent a chunk of our foreign aid budget to Australia now, it goes into the coffers of Morrison's government. We will never know how it is spent. But again, the main point is Australia has money. If Morrison were seen to be accepting money from the UK, apart from anything else, the shame of it, in such a rich country, would bring him down.
That's why it's much better for individuals to back the funds which go, right now, to where they are most needed, to those poor heroic bastards on the front line. Jesus, I read this morning that some of them returned from the front line, and there was no food for them, until some more heroes from Sydney's Western suburbs turned up in trucks with the requisites. FFS! This is Australia, not some African country. And if Morrison is then shamed by a wall of money from around the world which goes directly, now, to give them the support they should have had in the first place - because this was not exactly unexpected - then I'll be super happy that I chipped in for that.
Hope that is clear enough for you, @Goonerhater et al.8 -
I think back to war time when Australians and Kiwis sent food parcels back to the uk to support the war efforts. So therefore I agree that this country should help out Australia with any means possible whether this is financial or human effort. I’m sure funds could be raised to send some of our fire fighters to support the fight. Not sure what impact that will have on this catastrophe but would show that we cared.As we all have friends and family in Oz whether this is just fellow Addicks what’s CL view on a CL appeal?2
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Surely it's possible for our government to send the money in a way that ensures it gets to the front lines? If not, we need to seriously need to think about how we deal with FA.PragueAddick said:
Ok, here is my point, not so much for you, but the people above who wanted to turn this into political point scoring about the UK foreign aid budget and where it goes.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Is GDP per capita really relevant when dealing with a global issue?Rothko said:Australia is a country with a higher GDP per capita then the UK, virtually no budget deficit and double the economic growth. We’re not talking about a country that can’t and couldn’t cope with the right leadership or political will
There is one thing I might agree with those guys on, if the thread was about that, which it is not. The money from such budgets too often gets into the wrong hands. Why? Because by their nature, it has to go to the national governments. You can't dictate how it will be used, still less supervise that. Sovereignty, dontcha' know.
If we sent a chunk of our foreign aid budget to Australia now, it goes into the coffers of Morrison's government. We will never know how it is spent. But again, the main point is Australia has money. If Morrison were seen to be accepting money from the UK, apart from anything else, the shame of it, in such a rich country, would bring him down.
That's why it's much better for individuals to back the funds which go, right now, to where they are most needed, to those poor heroic bastards on the front line. Jesus, I read this morning that some of them returned from the front line, and there was no food for them, until some more heroes from Sydney's Western suburbs turned up in trucks with the requisites. FFS! This is Australia, not some African country. And if Morrison is then shamed by a wall of money from around the world which goes directly, now, to give them the support they should have had in the first place - because this was not exactly unexpected - then I'll be super happy that I chipped in for that.
Hope that is clear enough for you, @Goonerhater et al.
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That’s exactly the point Stu. Prague is saying if the uk government make a contribution it goes to the Australian government. I think what those of us who are apparently point scoring are saying, it should be possible that the aid budget can go directly from the uk government to specific front line groups that individuals are contributing to when in these diasister situations.3
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Exactly, I'd be dead against giving any money to a government that is clearly not interested in fully dealing with this problem, however it should be possible to give money directly to frontline services.
GH's original comment was 'We don't seem to be doing much HM Gov very quiet as is the opposition. A suggestion ,use some of the billions in the "over seas aid budget" and put it into a disaster relief budget and send it now.' no point scoring at all, just an honest suggest.
Australias financial situation should be irrelevant when talking about something that will have repercussions for the entire planet, we all have a duty to chip in and help, no matter where these disasters occur.
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Your Woodford holding?PragueAddick said:My best mate from college days is in Sydney and now an Oz citizen (but still a Pompey nutter). I still haven't heard back from him, but I am sure he's OK, and look forward to his take on it all.
I don't agree with this stuff about the UK using its foreign aid budget. It's Australia, FFS. It is as rich if not richer than the UK. The problem isn't money. The Australian State hasn't been using all its money the right way, has it? Using our foreign aid budget would be letting that muppet Morrison off the hook.
That shouldn't stop us as individuals putting their hands in their pockets, especially to support the criminally under-resourced firefighters. In this tweet below there are links to all the relevant firefighters' sites. I'm going to bung something to both the NSW and Victoria guys.
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I have a distant Australian cousin who is a senior officer in the fire brigade. She says the significant factors from her experience are arsonists and lack of backburning and firebreaks as mentioned above.1
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All the best @TELTEL said:The situation here has been on the cards now for the last three years. We are in a drought. I live but an hour north of Sydney and we haven’t had any significant rainfall since February and that was way below normal averages. Other parts of NSW haven’t had rain in three years. The Green Party lobbied to stop back burning, the most idiotic of a decision from a country fraught with idiotic decision makers who value money abovepeople’s lives and welfare. Sydney’s water reserve is now under 20%. Towns in Far north west NSW run out of town water back in February 2019 and rely on water being tankered in from elsewhere. I had five greenish acres which now resembles dusty weetabix. Trees are dying, huge cracks appearing from the roots upwards on my Lemon gums. The biggest fire in the country covering over 1200 square miles rages just 12 miles from my doorstep. The danger here is very real and smoke apart everywhere you go you keep an eye on the Bush land around you. Despite this, life goes on and people are very supportive of the firefighters and the poor farmers who have been slowly watching their livestock die before there very eyes, first from a lack of water and feed and now from grass fires ravaging the landscape. To coin a pun it really is a perfect storm here right now. You know you’re in trouble when the top firefighters say we cannot stop the fire spreading, it’s totally unstoppable and out of control. The only thing that will help now is rain. It rained briefly for an hour on the 27th November, before that I honestly cannot remember. Tomorrow like last week we have a 60% chance of rain, but I’m pretty sure as per last week we won’t see a single drop. In summary it’s a combination of drought, extremely high temperatures (49.5c here on Saturday) and green policies combining to make Australia a tinderbox right now. 500 million animals dead 20 + people dead or missing, 100’s of homes destroyed and still two months of summer to endure. It’s a pretty scary place at the moment. Not sure if the map will post but you can see the extent of the fire marked in darker green on the map. I’m the blue dot. At the end of the day if the fire bridges the Hawkesbury, it will be time to grab the dogs and a few important possessions and head into Sydney. Hopefully it won’t come to that. 1 -
The pictures posted by @Danepak remind me of the skies we saw in the Manchester area during the Saddleworth Moor wildfire in 2018. At about 7 square miles, that was no more than an oversized barbie compared with what is happening in Australia, but even that stretched the cash-strapped local fire brigade resources of all the nearby counties, and Army Chinooks were brought in to move personnel and equipment around.
But here's the thing to remember before we get too much on our high horse about the Australian government's failure to provide support for the firefighters - it was largely the Salvation Army and local people who kept the Saddleworth firefighters fed and watered while they were up on the moor, not our government. Failure to truly value our emergency services seems an international problem, and one which perhaps should be remedied in both countries.5 -
I’ve seen the sky turn crazy colours many times in Singapore due to Indonesia forest fires, but some of these pictures are horrific.0
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50400851
This is the BBC reporting that 50% of Australian bushfires are either arson or suspected arson.1 -
Thanks for that OzAddick and giving an insightful view of the problem, so less an issue of climate change and more an issue of cuts and inept leadership.ozaddick said:A disaster is putting it mildly. We had the hottest December on record in WA. (Western Australia). January isn’t any better. It’s not usually this hot. And there isn’t any cooler weather predicted for months.We have had massive finance cuts to the rural fire services that have come back to bite hard.Back burning, which is necessary to alleviate bush fires, ( even the indigenous land owners knew of its importance before us immigrants turned up) haven’t been carried out, due to the cuts, and the ‘greens’ said it wasn’t needed. Stupid stupid people.To top it off the prime minister, who is a complete fuckwit, excuse my language, has said that the economy is more important right now. He also piss farted around and went on holiday to his ‘mate’ Murdoch, whilst lives, homes and the animal kingdom burnt. It’s been sickening to see.He’s shown as much leadership as a fecking finger puppet. I detest the man.He also sold off huge water reserves to foreign private companies for mining, whilst Australia is suffering from a horrendous drought. This has also been a factor.The country is burning, millions upon millions of acres.The ice caps and mountains of New Zealand are coloured brown with the smoke from the fires.Australians are calling for help from the international communities, as ‘our’ government is inept.Millions of dollars have been raised by the Australian public to help the fire fighters, and other environmental groups that help with the wildlife that’s being wiped out.I’ve had friends who have had to evacuate their homes, it’s frightening to see them so upset.
As a trained firefighter through my employment I’m joining up to the volunteer fire service when I’m back from my swing offshore. They need as many hands as possible.Lastly, we’ve had arsonists lighting some of these fires, one who was in the volunteer fire service. Utter scum.The situation truly heartbreaking.I hope if you have any friends of family living here they are safe and sound. That goes to all the Aussie Addicks over here.
My family live in Port Lincoln, SA. They had had their fair share of fires over the years. A number of years ago my cousins then girlfriend lost her home and farm but was thankfully able to save her horses. This year they were near to evacuating the town as a bush fire was out of control and approaching rapidly but fortunately a change of wind direction made it unnecessary and eventually the fire was contained and subsequently extinguished. Keep safe everyone out there.1 -
Have to say that is extremely generous of Pink, half a million dollars isn’t to be sneezed at. Well done girl.LenGlover said:
Your Woodford holding?PragueAddick said:My best mate from college days is in Sydney and now an Oz citizen (but still a Pompey nutter). I still haven't heard back from him, but I am sure he's OK, and look forward to his take on it all.
I don't agree with this stuff about the UK using its foreign aid budget. It's Australia, FFS. It is as rich if not richer than the UK. The problem isn't money. The Australian State hasn't been using all its money the right way, has it? Using our foreign aid budget would be letting that muppet Morrison off the hook.
That shouldn't stop us as individuals putting their hands in their pockets, especially to support the criminally under-resourced firefighters. In this tweet below there are links to all the relevant firefighters' sites. I'm going to bung something to both the NSW and Victoria guys.2 - Sponsored links:
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I didn’t know about the Green Party stopping the back-burning ... sounds crazy.0
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Really? You've kept that quiet.JamesSeed said:I have friends and relatives in Australia who are now thinking of leaving the country. It's only likely to get worse, and with a carbon based economy (coal exports being critical) the future looks grim. I agree with the idea of sending aid. How many billions were raised for the restoration of a cathedral?
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Len, given the size of the areas affected, in multiple states, I doubt any forensic examinations have been carried out. I think we are in straight banana territory.LenGlover said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50400851
This is the BBC reporting that 50% of Australian bushfires are either arson or suspected arson.0 -
Even though, as stated by Ozaddick, there have been many arrests for arson ?harveys_gardener said:
Len, given the size of the areas affected, in multiple states, I doubt any forensic examinations have been carried out. I think we are in straight banana territory.LenGlover said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50400851
This is the BBC reporting that 50% of Australian bushfires are either arson or suspected arson.0 -
The BBC are not slow in pushing 'climate emergency' stuff so the fact that even they admit or report that 50% of fires are arson or suspected arson suggests to me that there is something in it.harveys_gardener said:
Len, given the size of the areas affected, in multiple states, I doubt any forensic examinations have been carried out. I think we are in straight banana territory.LenGlover said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50400851
This is the BBC reporting that 50% of Australian bushfires are either arson or suspected arson.1 -
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Arthur Chrenkoff is the Australian equivalent of Order Order or Guido Faukes, who has paid to have his Wikipedia redacted. Wouldn't believe a word he says and if BBC are reporting similar, it is likely that it was lazy journalism, unchecked. If the facts were remotely true, I think Morrison would be shouting them from the rooftops. Most of the affected areas are miles from civilisation and have no relevance to kids playing with matches in a paddock in their town, a fair few of the quotes well before the crisis emerged.
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And yet more money was raised for a church in France0
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Even if there has been arson attacks, the ongoing drought and high temperatures due to climate change and lack of government action e.g. backburning cannot be ignored4
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Don’t want to take it into a comparative debate thread, but so what? The Notre Dame is not just a church it’s an iconic building and central to Paris landscape and history.palarsehater said:And yet more money was raised for a church in France
People should always feel free to donate to whatever cause they like, no one should ever really question what is more important to them in comparison to others imo.3
