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Savings and Investments thread
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Come on, Golfie. Spill the beans. Who does the restricting, and what's the money trail that ensures how they choose only those funds?golfaddick said:
I would have said that the bulk of the Woodford money came in via HL and other "platforms" that had him on their "white lists".Huskaris said:
Imagine paying a greedy salesman who then put your money in Woodford!golfaddick said:
What is hard to understand about the warning that "the price of the units can fall as well a rise". So many people think they know best & dont want to take advice.. "ooh, not going to pay a greedy salesman any of my hard earned money...." and think all they need to do is read the newspaper & that's that.Rob7Lee said:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-woodford-inv-suspension-advisers/woodford-struggles-to-build-bridges-with-uk-financial-advisers-idUKKCN1VD152
"The bulk of Woodford’s business is won through IFAs directing client money to him"
People don't need to even read newspapers, they need to invest in some trackers.
With the greatest respect, and I do mean that, your entire industry is an absolute con. A con that won't last much longer either. being an IFA will be 2020's version of being a cab driver. Pointless.
The is also another scandal brewing (imo) that people know little about. A lot of advisers now are "restricted" & are directed to invest client monies into selected funds. But that's another story.0 -
I can only speak for the Companies I've worked for.........PragueAddick said:
Come on, Golfie. Spill the beans. Who does the restricting, and what's the money trail that ensures how they choose only those funds?golfaddick said:
I would have said that the bulk of the Woodford money came in via HL and other "platforms" that had him on their "white lists".Huskaris said:
Imagine paying a greedy salesman who then put your money in Woodford!golfaddick said:
What is hard to understand about the warning that "the price of the units can fall as well a rise". So many people think they know best & dont want to take advice.. "ooh, not going to pay a greedy salesman any of my hard earned money...." and think all they need to do is read the newspaper & that's that.Rob7Lee said:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-woodford-inv-suspension-advisers/woodford-struggles-to-build-bridges-with-uk-financial-advisers-idUKKCN1VD152
"The bulk of Woodford’s business is won through IFAs directing client money to him"
People don't need to even read newspapers, they need to invest in some trackers.
With the greatest respect, and I do mean that, your entire industry is an absolute con. A con that won't last much longer either. being an IFA will be 2020's version of being a cab driver. Pointless.
The is also another scandal brewing (imo) that people know little about. A lot of advisers now are "restricted" & are directed to invest client monies into selected funds. But that's another story.
Nowadays advisers, whether individually, a small 3 man firm or a national company belong to a "Network". The Network generally set the standards & agree with the FCA issues to do with training & compliance. Advisers who are not "whole of market" (previously known as IFA's) are generally deemed to be "restricted"......which can cover multitude of sins. "Restricted" might mean you can only select from 2 or 3 different product providers ....it might mean 5 or 6. However, it's more to do with the individual funds that they are "allowed" to sell. I will not name names on here but I know a national firm that employs over 200 advisers that has a very narrow fund range.....generally just 2 or 3 funds per risk attitude. This means if you are low or medium or adventurous risk you are likely to be put into a just one fund (albeit a multi-asset one). I think it is mainly done for ease of compliance (easier to keep advisors in check if there are very few funds to choose from - and advisers are told that they are not stock pickers & they should leave that to the experts, ie fund managers). It also helps if the network is owned by a fund management company......🤔. This is all legal & the FCA are happy with all this.
I am very autonomous & although I work for a large national advisory firm I do not have much to do with fellow colleagues so I dont really know what others do on a day to day basis, but I speak to ex-colleagues whom I have known for 20 years (one being a 1 man band who is now directly authorised by the FCA) and they tell me the same. I know I am one of a small band who still do my own fund research when investing money for my clients & have only ever come across 1 other colleague at any of the various fund manager events that I attend, with the other attendees generally being the typical 1 man band IFA's that are slowly dying out.
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Just to add......there is usually a "selection committee" at larger advisory firms that choose which particular funds are on their "panel", but in my experience the funds are not changed that regularly and the ones that are on there are generally average at best. I certainly wouldn't be choosing any of them for my clients.1
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Good grief, Golfie. Seems to me at first glance that what you described there is just a human version of robot investing.
Fair play to you for lifting the lid on it.
What do others think?0 -
@PragueAddick
Good question! I used to believe in caveat emptor but my wife ended up as a poacher turned gamekeeper and the horror stories she uncovered in this industry were shocking.
It doesn't seem to matter what rules the FCA put in place, people get around them. The problem then is that people believe that if something is approved by the FCA it's fair and reasonable, which becomes counter-productive as they don't do as much due diligence. And most people are very trusting.
SJP have been well chronicled in the Sunday Times for their very creative interpretation of the rules on fees and they are extremely opaque on fees and relative performance of their funds.
Of course, there are good, honest IFAs out there who work hard for their money. You just have to ask a few basic questions to get the sense as to which camp they're in - clarity on fees, whether they are looking at the whole market, etc., what the fee-included performance of any fund is, etc.. @golfaddick clearly is in the latter camp, if he's still bothering to do his own research!0 -
£50 from Ernie this month.1
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Nothing for me this month
. Fortunately got an email from Annual tax refund- Info Support hmrc@co.uk informing me the “gov” has issued me a refund of £411.12. All I have to do is send on my debit card details to the email address supplied 
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Thanks for the reminder, cut my holding so less in the draw this month, won more than usual
£50 for me, £100 for Mrs R7L so no chance of getting her to cash out now 
Thanks Ernie.
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£25 for me, nought for the missus. Still holding out for the big one. Would move my money elsewhere but rates are so low and there is always that chance of a decent win ….
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Say Holyjo fund has reached 900K in 10 years and he decides he wants to retire. Does he stay invested with what ever the risk is or does he then plump for a safer haven?golfaddick said:
I'm guessing you have a pension that you are thinking of transferring ??holyjo said:Would you rather have a final salary pension of 14k ( in today’s money ) at 65? Or 445k to invest today ?
That being the case there are probably too many improndrables to give you a definitive answer. If it was me I'd take the transfer value as you have more flexibility than with a final salary pension. This is what I usually tell my clients. It's not will the £445k give more than £14k pa (which I'm sure it will in 14 years time - even at a modest 3.5% "drawdown" figure it could give you £16k pa) but would you prefer flexibility over a guarantee.
Currently your pension gives you a known annual pension (maybe a lump sum too). But the fund is lost on your death (maybe 50% to your spouse if you're married). Whereas in your plan you (and any dependants) have access to the full amount. You could take it earlier than 65 without any penalties. You can take out more now & less later (when you start receiving the State Pension). You can alter the amount of income over time, up & down stopping & starting.
As I said......irs more to do with flexibility than replicating what the final salary scheme will give you.
FWIW.......and it's a long piece of string......I would say you could turn £445k into £800k-£1m in 14 years time.
If there is one of course that makes viable sense. Assuming he is a fit guy and likely to live another 20-25 years.0 - Sponsored links:
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just read back the last few pages. Think holyjo has done the right thing. I did that a couple of years ago. Final salary schemes are ok but if you pass away your significant other is likely to get only 50% and there is no other flexibility as others have pointed out. Mine has increased about £53k in under three years, about 11.5% growth after various charges. Not a massive increase but my funds are invested in low to moderate risk as I didn't want to in any way put my future income at risk. Retirement at 58 is still the plan.
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£50 from Ernie for me.
The first major return of Woodford funds happened a couple of days ago. Payout at 59p per share. That's a loss of between 40-50% on my purchases, although I did sell some before it went tits up. Mind you that's still not quite as bad as my epic losses on a gold fund i got into a few years ago.
Live and learn....0 -
Again, it all depends on his attitude to risk /risk appetite going forward. The whole point of investing imo is that nothing is set in stone and you can move in & out of funds/risk stategies when it suits you.StrikerFirmani said:
Say Holyjo fund has reached 900K in 10 years and he decides he wants to retire. Does he stay invested with what ever the risk is or does he then plump for a safer haven?golfaddick said:
I'm guessing you have a pension that you are thinking of transferring ??holyjo said:Would you rather have a final salary pension of 14k ( in today’s money ) at 65? Or 445k to invest today ?
That being the case there are probably too many improndrables to give you a definitive answer. If it was me I'd take the transfer value as you have more flexibility than with a final salary pension. This is what I usually tell my clients. It's not will the £445k give more than £14k pa (which I'm sure it will in 14 years time - even at a modest 3.5% "drawdown" figure it could give you £16k pa) but would you prefer flexibility over a guarantee.
Currently your pension gives you a known annual pension (maybe a lump sum too). But the fund is lost on your death (maybe 50% to your spouse if you're married). Whereas in your plan you (and any dependants) have access to the full amount. You could take it earlier than 65 without any penalties. You can take out more now & less later (when you start receiving the State Pension). You can alter the amount of income over time, up & down stopping & starting.
As I said......irs more to do with flexibility than replicating what the final salary scheme will give you.
FWIW.......and it's a long piece of string......I would say you could turn £445k into £800k-£1m in 14 years time.
If there is one of course that makes viable sense. Assuming he is a fit guy and likely to live another 20-25 years.
At retirement you now have a range of options & it's no longer one size fits all (aka, an annuity). I would usually advise to go into a Flexi-Access drawdown plan, staying invested, albeit with a less riskier portfolio. However, if you had a pension pot of £900k you could easily turn half into an annuity, giving you a guaranteed income that is enough to pay your household bills etc, leaving the rest available to be "drawn down" as & when needed or to supplement the annuity income.
There really is no one answer......and usually best to speak to a financial advisor...😉.1 -
Snap... From Jan 2019 to Feb 2020 getting 1.09% return. Not great...but more fun.guinnessaddick said:£50 from Ernie this month.1 -
First time i have been on this particular thread and if people are after a bit of info on finance my mate runs a free advice company called Money to the Masses. He does a couple of weekly podcasts too which are always a good listen. They have recently set up a Facebook community page where people are sharing their experience on different investment types. Always worth a look as a lot of it is along the same lines as this...
https://moneytothemasses.com/1 -
FREE advice......?? Nah, it would never catch on.AllHailTheHen said:First time i have been on this particular thread and if people are after a bit of info on finance my mate runs a free advice company called Money to the Masses. He does a couple of weekly podcasts too which are always a good listen. They have recently set up a Facebook community page where people are sharing their experience on different investment types. Always worth a look as a lot of it is along the same lines as this...
https://moneytothemasses.com/
Fwìw......it depends on what your mate calls "advice".1 -
There is a real lack of choice in Hong Kong for stock-trading platforms, they are mostly geared towards pros or are run by banks with silly fees. Have decided to move money back to England and take advantage of the wider choice of platforms on offer.
Can anyone recommend a low-fee platform in the UK? It will mostly be used for ETFs but with a few picks here and there with access to international markets.0 -
as mentioned not long ago, The Lang Cat are your best ever friends for reviewing the many platforms now available on the UK market.Chunes said:There is a real lack of choice in Hong Kong for stock-trading platforms, they are mostly geared towards pros or are run by banks with silly fees. Have decided to move money back to England and take advantage of the wider choice of platforms on offer.
Can anyone recommend a low-fee platform in the UK? It will mostly be used for ETFs but with a few picks here and there with access to international markets.
The UK has easily the widest choice of both platforms and funds (other than the US, I suppose), but when you say "access to international markets" there are myriad funds which invest in all kinds of global markets, but a UK platform will offer you funds which are denominated in £s, and your holdings will also be in £s. If you wanted to hold some investments in euros, you'd need a Euro platform, but in my experience they are all crap (i.e, much like how you describe the HK ones) compared with several UK platforms.1 -
Thanks Prague. Any recommendations on usability?PragueAddick said:
as mentioned not long ago, The Lang Cat are your best ever friends for reviewing the many platforms now available on the UK market.Chunes said:There is a real lack of choice in Hong Kong for stock-trading platforms, they are mostly geared towards pros or are run by banks with silly fees. Have decided to move money back to England and take advantage of the wider choice of platforms on offer.
Can anyone recommend a low-fee platform in the UK? It will mostly be used for ETFs but with a few picks here and there with access to international markets.
The UK has easily the widest choice of both platforms and funds (other than the US, I suppose), but when you say "access to international markets" there are myriad funds which invest in all kinds of global markets, but a UK platform will offer you funds which are denominated in £s, and your holdings will also be in £s. If you wanted to hold some investments in euros, you'd need a Euro platform, but in my experience they are all crap (i.e, much like how you describe the HK ones) compared with several UK platforms.
I'm also pondering if it would be worth setting up a DIY ISA for buying funds and a share dealing platform for the picks rather than buying both funds and shares through one platform0 -
I assume you are UK non-resident... If so, why would you want to move your money back to UK?Chunes said:There is a real lack of choice in Hong Kong for stock-trading platforms, they are mostly geared towards pros or are run by banks with silly fees. Have decided to move money back to England and take advantage of the wider choice of platforms on offer.
Can anyone recommend a low-fee platform in the UK? It will mostly be used for ETFs but with a few picks here and there with access to international markets.
You might be better off looking at brokers like Swissquote, SaxoBank or even Interactive Brokers. They give you access to the major global exchanges and have the option of different currency accounts.
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Thanks, I have looked at IB, big brand here. But they're very geared towards the professionals and have a 10USD minimum on commission fees per month. SwissQuote and Saxo fees seem quite high.QatarNapsy said:
I assume you are UK non-resident... If so, why would you want to move your money back to UK?Chunes said:There is a real lack of choice in Hong Kong for stock-trading platforms, they are mostly geared towards pros or are run by banks with silly fees. Have decided to move money back to England and take advantage of the wider choice of platforms on offer.
Can anyone recommend a low-fee platform in the UK? It will mostly be used for ETFs but with a few picks here and there with access to international markets.
You might be better off looking at brokers like Swissquote, SaxoBank or even Interactive Brokers. They give you access to the major global exchanges and have the option of different currency accounts.0 -
IB is definitely cheaper, and all charge fees, yes. But they are tax friendly.
I hear DeGiro are low-cost for a UK broker, but haven't used them myself0 -
Javid’s Mansion tax and pension relief budget proposals not looking too good for us savers and investors! Might have to get some more premium bonds!0
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Cant comment on the "mansion tax" but pension tax relief & the AA/LTA could well be addressed. Higher rate tax relief going, but the rate for everyone going up to 25% is a strong one I hear. However, this early on I expect its feelers being put out to see what the public will wear.0
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Ah, I forgot that you are in HK, which was pretty silly of me, since you mentioned it! In that case none of these myriad platfoms based in "Global Britain" will take your money. Unless that is you still have a UK bank account, and a UK address available to you?Chunes said:
Thanks Prague. Any recommendations on usability?PragueAddick said:
as mentioned not long ago, The Lang Cat are your best ever friends for reviewing the many platforms now available on the UK market.Chunes said:There is a real lack of choice in Hong Kong for stock-trading platforms, they are mostly geared towards pros or are run by banks with silly fees. Have decided to move money back to England and take advantage of the wider choice of platforms on offer.
Can anyone recommend a low-fee platform in the UK? It will mostly be used for ETFs but with a few picks here and there with access to international markets.
The UK has easily the widest choice of both platforms and funds (other than the US, I suppose), but when you say "access to international markets" there are myriad funds which invest in all kinds of global markets, but a UK platform will offer you funds which are denominated in £s, and your holdings will also be in £s. If you wanted to hold some investments in euros, you'd need a Euro platform, but in my experience they are all crap (i.e, much like how you describe the HK ones) compared with several UK platforms.
I'm also pondering if it would be worth setting up a DIY ISA for buying funds and a share dealing platform for the picks rather than buying both funds and shares through one platform
If yes, then I would delve into the Lang Cat's recommendations. For usability it is difficult to beat Hargreaves Lansdowne, from what I have seen, but they are not the cheapest.1 -
Pension relief at the higher amount has been on it's last legs for a long while, they've already cut it for earners over £150k.
Another reason I need to pack up work before too long.0 -
I know this is a potentially dopey question but if I am ( with my employer) putting £1200 a month into my pension and im a higher rate tax payer what would a change to 25% relief mean for me a yearRob7Lee said:Pension relief at the higher amount has been on it's last legs for a long while, they've already cut it for earners over £150k.
Another reason I need to pack up work before too long.0 -
holyjo said:
I know this is a potentially dopey question but if I am ( with my employer) putting £1200 a month into my pension and im a higher rate tax payer what would a change to 25% relief mean for me a yearRob7Lee said:Pension relief at the higher amount has been on it's last legs for a long while, they've already cut it for earners over £150k.
Another reason I need to pack up work before too long.Assuming it's 50/50 - or £600 you/£600 your employer (and you earn less than £150k) - you current contribution costs you net 60% of that £600 (£360) - after applying tax relief of 40%.If tax relief is restricted to 25% then the cost to you would be 75% of that £600 - i.e £450.So you would be £90 a month worse off.2 -
Bob Munro is correct but is assuming you are paying £600 with other £600 from employer. He is also assuming you pay 40% on the annual £7,200 contribution. This would only be the case if you currently earn £57,200 or more per annum.holyjo said:
I know this is a potentially dopey question but if I am ( with my employer) putting £1200 a month into my pension and im a higher rate tax payer what would a change to 25% relief mean for me a yearRob7Lee said:Pension relief at the higher amount has been on it's last legs for a long while, they've already cut it for earners over £150k.
Another reason I need to pack up work before too long.
12,500 tax Free
12,501 to £50,000 at 20%
£50,001 to £150,000 40%
Earning less than £57,200 would mean you were only getting some of your relief at 20%. Therefore the possible change would increase that relief to 25% and reduce your deficit on losing the 40% reduced to 25%.2 -
Thankyou @ralphmilne and @bobmunro - Both very helpful0
