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Is this not strange? Is this a set up?

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  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited July 2020
    Yes, Dodger was annoying me at the time for seemingly being in Southall's camp, but I think you could be right. Maybe it is time we all wake up and smell the coffee. Dodger is probably on the list of people we now need to listen to.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948

    I think the thing that makes me feel Southall was the main protagonist in all this is the way that he has taken every single avenue to line his pockets. It seems as though his job at Charlton was to sit there and write invoices out for himself, or on behalf of others to cover debts he has. In between that, lording it up through the ground on match days (getting standing ovations), encouraging supporters to go to games and buy season tickets (to cover his stealing until the illusive £5m turned up???) and having photos taken with people on community projects and the Upbeats (have a word with yourself, Matthew). 

    Then, since being rumbled, it seems as though he wants to take every avenue for that golden £1m figure, probably just so he can call himself a millionaire to his vile friends. Imo, The bloke is rotten to the core and does an unbelievably bad impression of a businessman


  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited July 2020
    Yes, I agree with you 100%. The perfect patsy. A stupid crook that clever crooks can use. But a crook all the same.  And something makes more sense. I thought Dodger was on Southall's side, but he did say that he wasn't and suggested Southall was a crook too. I certainly think I owe Dodger an apology. How much has Southall made from this that compensates for never being able to work in football, maybe anywhere, again? The car is gone, the rented home is gone. A few hundred grand?
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited July 2020
    If I was a fraud officer there are three people I would put at the top of my list to interview. Dodger, Southall and Duchatelet. I say Duchatelet because I suspect he couldn't have put anything so elaborate together and may have been approached. If that is the case, he might get edgy if people seem to be getting wise to it.

    Roland's escape could be to talk to PV/AB urgently and write off any money he has paid to the crooks. If they approached him, and he thinks people are getting wise to what is going on, he could be implicated in a serious fraud and face the requisite punishment. The bloke may be mad enough to have agreed to this, but also sane enough not to want what might happen to him and his reputation.
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,455
    Bailey said:
    All things lead back to Dutchelet, he has paid the wages as nobody would put money into a club they don't own. Farnell has been involved from day one as his connections prove. Whatever part the original ESI played has been updated to try and cover tracks with its second incarnation. These people will walk away with a hefty payment from Dutchelet for services provided, the only thing that can stop him is the ex directors case. The league will expel Charlton and that's what the plan needs to reach fruition. Dutchelet has convinced himself that once the club is dead he will regain money lost by his own stupidity. 
    What, is anything can Duchatalet do with the ground and training ground?
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited July 2020
    If Charlton are no more, restrictions protecting the club may no longer be deemed necessary. There is no point in there being a football ground on the site so planning permissions would very likely be opened up. The land suddenly becomes very valuable.
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,455
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    If Charlton are no more, restrictions protecting the club may no longer be deemed necessary. There is no point in there being a football ground on the site so planning permissions would very likely be opened up. The land suddenly becomes very valuable.
    This makes more sense then as I thought it wasn't
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited July 2020
    If this is a scam, we have to look at why. Where does the money that makes the scam worthwhile get generated? I can't see how it points anywhere but one direction. To the land assets. That is where the money is.
  • CatAddick
    CatAddick Posts: 2,387
    PrincessFiona said:
    Bailey said:
    All things lead back to Dutchelet, he has paid the wages as nobody would put money into a club they don't own. Farnell has been involved from day one as his connections prove. Whatever part the original ESI played has been updated to try and cover tracks with its second incarnation. These people will walk away with a hefty payment from Dutchelet for services provided, the only thing that can stop him is the ex directors case. The league will expel Charlton and that's what the plan needs to reach fruition. Dutchelet has convinced himself that once the club is dead he will regain money lost by his own stupidity. 
    What, is anything can Duchatalet do with the ground and training ground?
    Well without they problem of a tenant (CAFC) getting in the way; break up the training ground and sell off to people who do want leisure/sports pitches. Maybe some to the University, maybe the artificial pitch might interest a gym/leisure company, even the council might grab a bit.  In time a derelict Valley would become such an issue locally that RBG could change their stance on planning.  That’s why he put. £50M price tag on it - he never had any real intention of selling the land
  • red10
    red10 Posts: 834
    The Valley was once a victorian rubbish dump I beleive. Could be extremely toxic land to build on and cost a fortune to sort out.
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  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,624
    Airman will know but how much to clear The Valley of the stadium and clean up the contamination ? Access issues to any development proposal are significant if not impossible ? I’m not sure that The Valley site is any more valuable for developing than a thousand other much easier sites with none of the associated problems. 
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited July 2020
    How long does Victorian rubbish stay toxic for? You can walk to Canary Wharf/O2 in about 20 minutes from the Valley. A couple of minutes by car. 
  • thickandthin63
    thickandthin63 Posts: 2,957
    In spite of everything conspiring against us,if this club was expelled from the league,it would probably be the most damaging indictment of EFL you could imagine.With due respects we are not Bury,We are a club that avareged 17000  gates last year,continually had an excellent away support,and until the Virus,probably were not far off breaking even.Had we not had that break,Taylor would have played and we would have stayed up,no doubt in my mind.In spite of their apathy,I think EFL will do everything to allow us to continue in the league.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited July 2020
    I thought the EFL should have done more to save Bury. I wouldn't like to say we were more important than Bury. To us yes, of course, but to the people who supported Bury they were their lives. We are just as important as Liverpool and Bury were just as important as us. If the EFL at the end of this allowed us to continue in League two, we are relatively buggered, but the plan from the scammers is even more buggered.
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,022
    thickandthin63 said:
    In spite of everything conspiring against us,if this club was expelled from the league,it would probably be the most damaging indictment of EFL you could imagine.With due respects we are not Bury,We are a club that avareged 17000  gates last year,continually had an excellent away support,and until the Virus,probably were not far off breaking even.Had we not had that break,Taylor would have played and we would have stayed up,no doubt in my mind.In spite of their apathy,I think EFL will do everything to allow us to continue in the league.
    Pre-lockdown we lost to Sheffield Wednesday, Huddersfield and Middlesbrough without scoring and looked doomed. We'd probably have gone down anyway.
  • NorthheathAddick
    NorthheathAddick Posts: 4,018
    What’s Murray had to say about all this...??
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    Murray would have had no part in this. He is an intelligent man who has let us down. Maybe he can help by getting a bit involved now. 
  • red10
    red10 Posts: 834
    edited July 2020
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    How long does Victorian rubbish stay toxic for? You can walk to Canary Wharf/O2 in about 20 minutes from the Valley. A couple of minutes by car. 
    It's probably not just general rubbish, possibly lots of toxic by products of industry in the local area, could be stuff like this ...
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    We built a fairly large stand on it.
  • swords_alive
    swords_alive Posts: 4,265
    edited July 2020
    red10 said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    How long does Victorian rubbish stay toxic for? You can walk to Canary Wharf/O2 in about 20 minutes from the Valley. A couple of minutes by car. 
    It's probably not just general rubbish, possibly lots of toxic by products of industry in the local area, could be stuff like this ...

    Discussed on the bonkers thread, page 852. Blue billy and other possibilities. Here's one set of quotes-


    aliwibble said:
    PeanutsMolloy said:
    A simple, deep soil sample should suffice when it comes to The Valley. 
    The cost of removing and safely disposing of what lies below, which was given the green light for purposes of a football stadium (be assured, no need to wear hazmat suits in the Covered End) but would be far from acceptable for housing, would be prohibitive and kill RD's valuation stone dead. 
    I like the idea, but it was a chalk quarry wasn't it? Are they particularly known for leaving unpleasant waste behind that'd make it difficult to develop on?
    Yes it was a chalk and sand quarry, but I understand that once it became disused it was partially infilled with rubbish.  (This was evidently a long-standing local practice; I've seen a Victorian newspaper article about the local authorities complaining that Rotherhithe Vestry was dumping their rubbish in one of the pits in Charlton!)

    It's not just the risk of unearthing toxic chemical waste or asbestos which might be down there - something like deeply buried Japanese knot weed would be a very expensive problem to resolve if it was reactivated while digging foundations.
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  • red10
    red10 Posts: 834
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    We built a fairly large stand on it.
    Agreed but in the open air, not housing. Sombody mentioned entire gardens being dug up and having a mebrane put down recently.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    I think the issue is, Roland thinks he will make a lot of money if not restricted by what he can do with the land. If it turns out he can't make as much as he thinks.....well, we would rather it doesn't come to that.
  • swords_alive
    swords_alive Posts: 4,265
    CatAddick said:
    PrincessFiona said:
    Bailey said:
    All things lead back to Dutchelet, he has paid the wages as nobody would put money into a club they don't own. Farnell has been involved from day one as his connections prove. Whatever part the original ESI played has been updated to try and cover tracks with its second incarnation. These people will walk away with a hefty payment from Dutchelet for services provided, the only thing that can stop him is the ex directors case. The league will expel Charlton and that's what the plan needs to reach fruition. Dutchelet has convinced himself that once the club is dead he will regain money lost by his own stupidity. 
    What, is anything can Duchatalet do with the ground and training ground?
    Well without they problem of a tenant (CAFC) getting in the way; break up the training ground and sell off to people who do want leisure/sports pitches. Maybe some to the University, maybe the artificial pitch might interest a gym/leisure company, even the council might grab a bit.  In time a derelict Valley would become such an issue locally that RBG could change their stance on planning.  That’s why he put. £50M price tag on it - he never had any real intention of selling the land
    Roland can come back later and contract for development work at both sites as owner/developer, just like he is thinking of doing at Liege and has done at Carl Zeiss Jena since December when we were distracted by ESI. One or more juicy development packages ahead for him, unless he shows some different motivation in any next steps he is forced or chooses to make.

  • thickandthin63
    thickandthin63 Posts: 2,957
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    thickandthin63 said:
    In spite of everything conspiring against us,if this club was expelled from the league,it would probably be the most damaging indictment of EFL you could imagine.With due respects we are not Bury,We are a club that avareged 17000  gates last year,continually had an excellent away support,and until the Virus,probably were not far off breaking even.Had we not had that break,Taylor would have played and we would have stayed up,no doubt in my mind.In spite of their apathy,I think EFL will do everything to allow us to continue in the league.
    Pre-lockdown we lost to Sheffield Wednesday, Huddersfield and Middlesbrough without scoring and looked doomed. We'd probably have gone down anyway.
    I know,but one or two goals from somwhere,(Millwall,Reading Birmingham) could have made a difference.
  • charltonkeston
    charltonkeston Posts: 7,366
    Greenwich council would approve planning on the valley in a heartbeat, obviously if Charlton were no longer around. Why wouldn’t they? The training ground there would be a few hoops to jump through but I’m certain that too would be granted permission.
    Roland doesn’t have to wait for permission from Greenwich to get his money, he can sell it on to anyone who wants to speculate on land, plenty of them in this world.
    We shouldn’t forget the opposition we had from the council and locals when we were trying to make a return to the valley, Greenwich council will not take the moral high when  viewing planning on unused large pieces of land. They granted permission on 3 pieces of land since 2000 around the valley where houses were built. The stories about accessibility to the site is nonsense, the tallest building in Europe was built with poor accessibility.
    We were warned by Standard fans when the insect bought us how he operated, I think we might now be in the end game. Unless Barclay is willing to pay an inflated price on something  he has no sentimental feelings for.
    The Aussie failure and other less known bidders to acquire the club is making a little more sense to me now, the Belgium never wanted a community football club, he wanted money.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    But ultimately what he is doing is illegal. And if exposed, there are harsh consequences. Why is the git not terrified of us going into administration and all the money that will cost him? I say because he knows that isn't the plan. 
  • swords_alive
    swords_alive Posts: 4,265
    edited July 2020
    Southall and Heller leaked their story in Romania, included details of the alleged property project for the Valley.

    Anyone who missed it on the bonkers thread may find it interesting, but bear in mind it is part one of the Southall & Heller story and a blatant attempt to deflect any blame.

    It even alleges Nimer is the illegitimate son of a Sheikh (and releases his passport copy to undermine him)- clearly Southall & Heller didn't mind fueling racist conspiracy when it suited them.

    https://amp.gsp.ro/article/593741

    English translation, link courtesy of the bite size bonkers thread- https://charltonlife.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/3847978/#Comment_3847978


    Fwiw I still think it's all a rubbish smokescreen but the topic of RD and property won't yet go away until he does!
  • Hovi's Biscuit
    Hovi's Biscuit Posts: 1,717
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    If Charlton are no more, restrictions protecting the club may no longer be deemed necessary. There is no point in there being a football ground on the site so planning permissions would very likely be opened up. The land suddenly becomes very valuable.
    Greenwich is a Labour controlled council. If Southwark is anything to go by in terms of property development, this should be a worrying detail
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    To be honest, if we die, what council is just going to let a football stadium with no club to play in it rot and crumble on the land ad infinitum?
  • Wheresmeticket
    Wheresmeticket Posts: 17,304
    Hovi's Biscuit said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    If Charlton are no more, restrictions protecting the club may no longer be deemed necessary. There is no point in there being a football ground on the site so planning permissions would very likely be opened up. The land suddenly becomes very valuable.
    Greenwich is a Labour controlled council. If Southwark is anything to go by in terms of property development, this should be a worrying detail
    Sorry, don't get your point?

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