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Football At Risk Of Collapse!
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There's a fair bit of moral hazard with that approach.Redmidland said:Perhaps they could very quickly bring in a sort of means testing for each EFL club. That way money will go to those who need it and not to those that currently don't?0 -
Football should get its own house in order, it could hugely enhance it's reputation in the UK by doing so. Leave the Govt to bail out those who really need it - there are plenty.
It is madness that in Covid times this transfer window to date the EPL clubs have had a net +£660M spend with only 5 clubs not having spent more than they have collected in transfer fees and with still a couple of weeks of the transfer window to go; yet clubs further down the pecking order are likely to go out of business.
If they simply gave the 48? Clubs in L1+2 £3M each it would likely save each and everyone, it could be held in escrow to cover specific expenditure and the right salary caps stop clubs wasting it for the next year or two anyway. That would be £150M, or a little over what Gareth Bale earns in 4.5 years.
The Championship is a bit different, most owners have enough to keep their clubs running and miss management means a much bigger black hole which I have less sympathy for but equally the clubs are generally bigger and hence more likely to be saved if they drop into administration.5 -
It was obvious @se9addick was joking surely?
No real football fan would want any club to go under, I wouldn’t even wish that on Millwall.8 -
Its quite shocking when you see the figures and how unbalanced the whole structure isAthletico Charlton said:Football should get its own house in order, it could hugely enhance it's reputation in the UK by doing so. Leave the Govt to bail out those who really need it - there are plenty.
It is madness that in Covid times this transfer window to date the EPL clubs have had a net +£660M spend with only 5 clubs not having spent more than they have collected in transfer fees and with still a couple of weeks of the transfer window to go; yet clubs further down the pecking order are likely to go out of business.
If they simply gave the 48? Clubs in L1+2 £3M each it would likely save each and everyone, it could be held in escrow to cover specific expenditure and the right salary caps stop clubs wasting it for the next year or two anyway. That would be £150M, or a little over what Gareth Bale earns in 4.5 years.
The Championship is a bit different, most owners have enough to keep their clubs running and miss management means a much bigger black hole which I have less sympathy for but equally the clubs are generally bigger and hence more likely to be saved if they drop into administration.
Would like to see something like you suggest but when you say " if they simply gave...", there is the problem i guess. Its not simple if a few clubs won't agree.0 -
I’ve been saying for years that the Premier League is the root cause of the problems in English Football. The top heavy distribution of monies is obscene. Yes it provides the best product and yes it deserves the lions share but the PL definitely doesn’t provide enough filter down money to leagues below and the transfer fees and wages being paid are just an insult to the average football fan.Athletico Charlton said:Football should get its own house in order, it could hugely enhance it's reputation in the UK by doing so. Leave the Govt to bail out those who really need it - there are plenty.
It is madness that in Covid times this transfer window to date the EPL clubs have had a net +£660M spend with only 5 clubs not having spent more than they have collected in transfer fees and with still a couple of weeks of the transfer window to go; yet clubs further down the pecking order are likely to go out of business.
If they simply gave the 48? Clubs in L1+2 £3M each it would likely save each and everyone, it could be held in escrow to cover specific expenditure and the right salary caps stop clubs wasting it for the next year or two anyway. That would be £150M, or a little over what Gareth Bale earns in 4.5 years.
The Championship is a bit different, most owners have enough to keep their clubs running and miss management means a much bigger black hole which I have less sympathy for but equally the clubs are generally bigger and hence more likely to be saved if they drop into administration.2 -
Yeah, absolutely.ValleyGary said:It was obvious @se9addick was joking surely?
No real football fan would want any club to go under, I wouldn’t even wish that on Millwall.
Sorry, I’ve had a shocker, just trying to avoid the pile on now.7 -
Actually... 😏ValleyGary said:It was obvious @se9addick was joking surely?
No real football fan would want any club to go under, I wouldn’t even wish that on Millwall.4 -
"EFL chairman Rick Parry told BBC Radio 5 Live on Saturday that some clubs "are on the brink".
He's got a fucking cheek hasn't he?! Didn't do much to help us when we were on the brink!
A guy who oversaw the creation of the premier league and the start of huge tv deals for top flight clubs, and now oversees the EFL who do little to nothing to help most clubs. An organisation that fucked up the Sheffield Wednesday situation by not spotting it sooner, let Derby get away with buying their own stadium and stitched up Macclesfield by relegating them in the same season that they deemed not worth relegating Sheff Weds.
Great work Rick.
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I really cant see Government bailing out football teams when the PL are spending millions on fees & wages. We all know the difference between what Spurs can pay and their near neighbours Leyton Orient - but its the perception & if the Government are seen to be giving EFL clubs millions of pounds the general public will be scratching their heads & asking questions.
There might be a small bail-out fund but the majority of it will fall onto the Pl teams.......and so it should.3 -
Bit like furlough, they could pay 80% of a clubs gate income average for the last couple of seasons. Let's be honest, its not gonna be a huge amount the further down you go, but could save a shit load of jobs and clubs.ct_addick said:Lower league clubs survive on gate receipts. If the government is not allowing anyone in then they should help the clubs out5 -
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Could be in the champions league by default in years to come 😉.Rothko said:The thing is, we're in a good position now, and can rid this out
Seriously, I want to watch Radcliffe play Witton Albion on Saturday (see non league thread). The crowd was about 400 but you could see what the club meant to their town and folk and players..
It would be a national disgrace if the lower teams go.out.of business whilst the Premier League pisses millions and millions on mercenary player who don't give a shit beyond their next sports car.
I do also agree the government need to protect the smaller clubs too, as it's their policy not to allow people to attend and league and conference league level.6 -
Football without rivalry would be dull as ditch water.ValleyGary said:It was obvious @se9addick was joking surely?
No real football fan would want any club to go under, I wouldn’t even wish that on Millwall.
If we ever do manage to put it together on the pitch and find ourselves in the same leagues as Palace and Millwall they would be 2 of the first fixtures you look out for and look forward to (at least until the game starts and we capitulate).
As much as you don't necessarily want your local rivals to do well success wise would never want them to fold.
Wouldn't look forward to games v Preston or crewe or even big clubs like villa and Everton (after novelty of playing them wears off) as much as local derby games.
This league we are in now is very dull fixture wise and not just because of it being the third division.3 -
I think you have to find a formula that ought to help the clubs that need it. Maybe lost revenue from gates would be the starting point. But first you need the money.AndyG said:It is a difficult situation really. There are clubs that are going to need assistance and others that can ride it out. But how do you judge it if you are going to be handing out money ?0 -
Perhaps a simple tax on transfer fees and wages paid by prem clubs would be a start. How you collect it and distribute it down the leagues though is anyone's guess.
Realistically I suspect soon that we will end up with just two or three divisions in the football league with plenty of league one and two clubs either gone bust or turning semi-pro.1 -
I also find it hilarious that Robbie Savage was putting his name to the list of those calling for Govt help. The same Robbie Savage who constantly talks on R5 about how players should dive, how ayers should take as much money as they can etc.2
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Set payment to every club then 80% of projected lost gate receipts over next year, reviewed at that point.
The Premiership and Wednesday can fuck off though.1 -
Because the top end is flushed, doesn’t mean government can wash its
hands of responsibility, it’s a decision by government to pull revenue away from League 1 and 2 clubs in the main.The Premier League will put conditions on that money, probably doing more harm to academies in the league for example.
this government hates doing trade offs, it thinks it’s all easy and someone else will pick up the tab, see universities, see track and trace, see football.
they will u turn once the right wing press gets its teeth into this0 -
Wondering what Sandgaard's business strategy will be this season of this results in many clubs really struggling, to field a first team squad. The underfunding Bowyer has had to contend with for a while, with small squad and youngsters, was tough, but when we're talking administration or shutting down, is at a whole new level of funding crisis.0
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Burn him !se9addick said:
Yeah, absolutely.ValleyGary said:It was obvious @se9addick was joking surely?
No real football fan would want any club to go under, I wouldn’t even wish that on Millwall.
Sorry, I’ve had a shocker, just trying to avoid the pile on now.2 -
Tottenham have already had a government handout due to Coronavirus.
I think there needs to be an overhaul of finances across the whole tier structure, but until the teams at the top agree nothing will change.1 -
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Any comparison with say the theatre business is flawed as no theatre which consistently spends >100% of turnover on wages lasts for very long.0
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I wonder in reality if you take out the Premier league and the championship clubs who receive probably 90% of TV income, how much would it cost the government to support the rest of the football stricture?. I think it would be a spit in the ocean compared to the national debt currently being created.0
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The thing is , we just don’t know when it’s all going to stop.
Im not going to be surprised if we get round to March, potentially lose a lot people through the winter to Covid, and then come March fans returning to games gets pushed back to September 2021, any industry even if it’s one we love, is unsustainable if they can’t generate their own funds, and I can’t see the Premier league/ government, bailing out businesses indefinitely, going to need owners with deep pockets, or lower tier clubs to team up with Premier league teams and become B teams / feeder clubs, bit like we’ve become :-0
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They did it to West Hamgolfaddick said:I really cant see Government bailing out football teams when the PL are spending millions on fees & wages. We all know the difference between what Spurs can pay and their near neighbours Leyton Orient - but its the perception & if the Government are seen to be giving EFL clubs millions of pounds the general public will be scratching their heads & asking questions.
There might be a small bail-out fund but the majority of it will fall onto the Pl teams.......and so it should.1 -
To be fair Spurs have helped support Orient in the past and have done so recently. Also Harry Kane sponsors their shirts.golfaddick said:I really cant see Government bailing out football teams when the PL are spending millions on fees & wages. We all know the difference between what Spurs can pay and their near neighbours Leyton Orient - but its the perception & if the Government are seen to be giving EFL clubs millions of pounds the general public will be scratching their heads & asking questions.
There might be a small bail-out fund but the majority of it will fall onto the Pl teams.......and so it should.
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Really, it should be a straight link to attendance based on what would be netted after taxes.Coming up with a formula shouldn’t be that hard. Finding the money - that’s harder, but that’s what governments are for.2
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Sure, "it's not the Premier League's sole responsibility to sort out issues arising from government policy", but it would be nice if they at least tried to do something to help protect the sport.
How long now since all this began - and what have the Premier League done in that time? They've spent hundreds of millions on players and wages that's what. Oh, and moaned that they're losing out on corporate income.
I also hoped that one good thing to come out of all this is that football takes the opportunity to reset itself. I knew that was probably asking a bit much, but if this doesn't do it then nothing will.
The "problem" with football is easy to diagnose. The clubs pay too much of their income in wages. That's it. Pure and simple. ALL clubs pay too much. There aren't really any other unexpected costs or overheads - wages are the biggest costs by a country mile. But they carry on paying more and more.
If "football" as a collective wants Government support then what is it going to do for that support?
The firm I work for asked people to "voluntarily" take two weeks worth of unpaid leave across the board and we all did. What has football done to put it's own house in order? Why should my taxes go towards bailing out businesses that refuse to do anything to change?8 -
I have major concerns about what a bail-out from the Premier League would look like.
There is no such thing as a 'free lunch' when the PL are involved.
The conditions could very well involve a Championship salary cap (therefore making it likely that any relegated sides would just come back up very easily), or even U23 teams.
All whilst the gap between the PL and EFL just grows even bigger.
I fear that even if there is a bail out, we're probably on the verge of seeing the English football pyramid taking a major turn for the worse, in an irreversible way.0 -
Government should bale them out. Did it for banks in 2008. Part of the fabric of British society.0
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Premier League players and clubs contributed £3.3bn in tax in 2016-17. That figure must be even higher before Covid. There’s no reason the government cannot use even a small portion of this back as a package to lower league teams.2
