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Advice needed re. Maternity leave/work

24

Comments

  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,456
    Talal said:
    TeslaGirl said:
    NOT a lawyer but think employer stuck between a rock and a hard place, because they'd be obligated to make the temp cover person permanent after 2 years?  Well, at least offer T&Cs as for a perm role?  Would suggest ACAS except you've already had that suggestion...
    This person was never temp cover though, she was given the job permanently as soon as she started my fiance has since found out.

    I know I'm biased, but my fiance and her sister are two of the few people there that are actually competent at their jobs which makes this all the more frustrating. 
    Sounds like the nursery made a mistake employing a replacement permanently.

    You say she was sacked previously, do you know what for or any more about it?
  • Richard J
    Richard J Posts: 8,033
    Has the other person been there over two years? 
  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,492
    PrincessFiona said:
    Talal said:
    TeslaGirl said:
    NOT a lawyer but think employer stuck between a rock and a hard place, because they'd be obligated to make the temp cover person permanent after 2 years?  Well, at least offer T&Cs as for a perm role?  Would suggest ACAS except you've already had that suggestion...
    This person was never temp cover though, she was given the job permanently as soon as she started my fiance has since found out.

    I know I'm biased, but my fiance and her sister are two of the few people there that are actually competent at their jobs which makes this all the more frustrating. 
    Sounds like the nursery made a mistake employing a replacement permanently.

    You say she was sacked previously, do you know what for or any more about it?
    Conduct related, my fiance knows no more than that. 
  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,492
    Richard J said:
    Has the other person been there over two years? 
    She's been with the company over two years but has changed nurseries in that time. In this position at my fiance's nursery she's been there less than two years. 
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Talal said:
    Would you believe it the manager has just sent an email out to ALL staff at the nursery explaining the situation and basically saying that one of my fiance and the other employee will be losing their job.
    How unprofessional can you get. 
    Keep a copy of course.
    Sounds like the ante has been upped, and there seems no doubt this will be about financial considerations.
    I really think your partner needs an advocate who is across the laws rules and regulations.
    From what you say this sounds like one of a chain of nurseries.
    Are there are a lot of employees overall, and does the parent company have an HR department?
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,456
    edited October 2020
    I wonder how/why she managed to got reinstated? I appreciate you said the person doing the interviewing does get on with Mrs Talal but I wonder if they are using it as a reason for the other person to fail, being that they sacked her previously?

    Should they go ahead, maybe the interviewer should be a neutral,objective person from another of the company's  nurseries. 

    Although it appears strongly she shouldn't have to go though any inter view or selection process.

    Is it being dealt with locally or by head office HR who should know better? And I would have thought, know more about maternity leave than most, since I would have thought it a popular place to work with people having children!

    Also, what is the situation when they change nirsery within the same companiy?

    Sounds like she was taken on during the first period of maternity leave, whiich is just plain wrong.


  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,492
    Yes a lot of employees and yes there's an HR department. This is all coming from them via the nursery manager. 
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    The nursery manager might be being used by more remote forces who don't want to deal with a tricky situation.
    Any chance of by-passing the manager and going to HR?
    HR are probably saying 'you know the local circumstances', but unless the manager is a bit of a meglomaniac he or she could say the HR 'what exactly and precisely are the rules?'.
    A round robin email seems well and truly out of order to me.
  • PaddyP17
    PaddyP17 Posts: 13,037
    Talal said:
    Thanks again. 
    Unfortunately the insurance doesn't include legal cover but great suggestion. 

    I made a mistake in regards to when my fiance found out about the other person being given a permanent job in her role; it was actually in July. Subsequent correspondence followed resulting in this email exchange. This would have been agreed by the regional director before the manager confirmed. 
    Understandably my fiance thought that this was the end of the matter and that she'd be returning as deputy. During the phone conversation earlier, the manager said words to the effect of "this doesn't matter as there has since been a restructuring in the company". Whether they are legally allowed to do this or not it just confirms the type of people she is dealing with. 




    From a legal standpoint this email may well be binding, and if there's been a restructure and your fiancee was not informed, that is absolutely not on.

    I am not a lawyer - merely surrounded by them in my social life - so please do seek appropriate advice from a professional post haste.
  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,492
    PrincessFiona said:
    I wonder how/why she managed to got reinstated? I appreciate you said the person doing the interviewing does get on with Mrs Talal but I wonder if they are using it as a reason for the other person to fail, being that they sacked her previously?

    Should they go ahead, maybe the interviewer should be a neutral,objective person from another of the company's  nurseries. 

    Although it appears strongly she shouldn't have to go though any inter view or selection process.

    Is it being dealt with locally or by head office HR who should know better? And I would have thought, know more about maternity leave than most, since I would have thought it a popular place to work with people having children!

    Also, what is the situation when they change nirsery within the same companiy?

    Sounds like she was taken on during the first period of maternity leave, whiich is just plain wrong.


    This person was reinstated as she won an unfair dismissal case. 

    Not certain as Mrs T (I'm just going to call her that from now on!) has never changed nursery before. She knows this person moved over due to her nursery closing and thinks she'd be on the same contract.
    That's correct she started working there during the first period of leave. 
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  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,492
    seth plum said:
    The nursery manager might be being used by more remote forces who don't want to deal with a tricky situation.
    Any chance of by-passing the manager and going to HR?
    HR are probably saying 'you know the local circumstances', but unless the manager is a bit of a meglomaniac he or she could say the HR 'what exactly and precisely are the rules?'.
    A round robin email seems well and truly out of order to me.
    Mrs T doesn't have a direct line to anyone at HR just a generic email. I think at the moment we'll keep going through the manager. Although she'll pass it straight to HR anyway, at least she'll be aware of Mrs T's grievances. 
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    If the other 'candidate' has won a tribunal before they might see Mrs T as a softer touch to deal with.
    They might be super wary of the maternity cover lady.
  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,492
    seth plum said:
    If the other 'candidate' has won a tribunal before they might see Mrs T as a softer touch to deal with.
    They might be super wary of the maternity cover lady.
    That's what we're thinking.

    Mrs T remembered she did a child minding job many years ago and one of the parents worked in HR. We've contacted her and she's agreed to assist and be present during any meetings. She agrees with what virtually everyone has said here in that the nursery are acting unlawfully. 
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,601
    They’re clearly acting outside of employment law but if I’m honest, I’ve got a tiny bit of sympathy for them. 2 years is a long time to backfill a fairly senior member of staff with a temporary resource. 
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,456
    DaveMehmet said:
    They’re clearly acting outside of employment law but if I’m honest, I’ve got a tiny bit of sympathy for them. 2 years is a long time to backfill a fairly senior member of staff with a temporary resource. 
    It might have been a bit of a challenging situation for them but absolute no reason to do what they did
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,601
    PrincessFiona said:
    DaveMehmet said:
    They’re clearly acting outside of employment law but if I’m honest, I’ve got a tiny bit of sympathy for them. 2 years is a long time to backfill a fairly senior member of staff with a temporary resource. 
    It might have been a bit of a challenging situation for them but absolute no reason to do what they did
    No, no excuse for it.
  • Boom
    Boom Posts: 1,680
    Talal said:
    PrincessFiona said:
    I wonder how/why she managed to got reinstated? I appreciate you said the person doing the interviewing does get on with Mrs Talal but I wonder if they are using it as a reason for the other person to fail, being that they sacked her previously?

    Should they go ahead, maybe the interviewer should be a neutral,objective person from another of the company's  nurseries. 

    Although it appears strongly she shouldn't have to go though any inter view or selection process.

    Is it being dealt with locally or by head office HR who should know better? And I would have thought, know more about maternity leave than most, since I would have thought it a popular place to work with people having children!

    Also, what is the situation when they change nirsery within the same companiy?

    Sounds like she was taken on during the first period of maternity leave, whiich is just plain wrong.


    This person was reinstated as she won an unfair dismissal case. 

    Not certain as Mrs T (I'm just going to call her that from now on!) has never changed nursery before. She knows this person moved over due to her nursery closing and thinks she'd be on the same contract.
    That's correct she started working there during the first period of leave. 

    So this is you?

    Mr T Best of the 80s

  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,492
    Damn right and I pity the fool that tries to put Mrs T out of work. 
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    The simple question to ask is if Mrs T was a man would they be in this situation?

  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,456
    seth plum said:
    The simple question to ask is if Mrs T was a man would they be in this situation?

    Depends if you believe a man can have a baby. But that is a whole different thread
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  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,596
    PrincessFiona said:
    seth plum said:
    The simple question to ask is if Mrs T was a man would they be in this situation?

    Depends if you believe a man can have a baby. But that is a whole different thread
    Shared maternity leave?......
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Rob7Lee said:
    PrincessFiona said:
    seth plum said:
    The simple question to ask is if Mrs T was a man would they be in this situation?

    Depends if you believe a man can have a baby. But that is a whole different thread
    Shared maternity leave?......
    Yeah.
    Fair point.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,596
    seth plum said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    PrincessFiona said:
    seth plum said:
    The simple question to ask is if Mrs T was a man would they be in this situation?

    Depends if you believe a man can have a baby. But that is a whole different thread
    Shared maternity leave?......
    Yeah.
    Fair point.
    Sexist  ;)
  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,492
    The HR person we know crafted an excellent letter (not formal grievance yet) to the manager highlighting why it's unfair dismissal. Mrs T has just had a phone call saying that HR still want her to reapply as she is on annual leave rather than maternity.

    On the company's site under an employee's guide to maternity leave and Benefits it states - 

    If you are taking part or all of the ordinary maternity leave or additional maternity leave you can:

    1. Use the annual leave you accrue during your maternity leave in order to extend your maternity leave (as long as the leave is within a single annual leave year). 


    Contacting our HR guru to draft another letter! 

  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Talal said:
    The HR person we know crafted an excellent letter (not formal grievance yet) to the manager highlighting why it's unfair dismissal. Mrs T has just had a phone call saying that HR still want her to reapply as she is on annual leave rather than maternity.

    On the company's site under an employee's guide to maternity leave and Benefits it states - 

    If you are taking part or all of the ordinary maternity leave or additional maternity leave you can:

    1. Use the annual leave you accrue during your maternity leave in order to extend your maternity leave (as long as the leave is within a single annual leave year). 


    Contacting our HR guru to draft another letter! 

    Good.
    You're on it.
    They tried a flanker with the annual leave curveball, and you have outflanked them right back by quoting their own regulations.
    Fascinating stuff (to me), keep us posted.
  • aliwibble
    aliwibble Posts: 26,299
    Yep, if the letter doesn't include the phrase "which conflicts with the company's own policy on maternity leave, as stated on the company intranet/website" I'd be very surprised. @Talal you should make sure you take screenshots of the relevant bits of the policy, so they can't try to sneakily change it after the letter goes in. If it's on a publicly facing website, then you will probably able to use web.archive.org to save independent copies of the relevant pages, so they can't claim you've doctored them.
  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,492
    aliwibble said:
    Yep, if the letter doesn't include the phrase "which conflicts with the company's own policy on maternity leave, as stated on the company intranet/website" I'd be very surprised. @Talal you should make sure you take screenshots of the relevant bits of the policy, so they can't try to sneakily change it after the letter goes in. If it's on a publicly facing website, then you will probably able to use web.archive.org to save independent copies of the relevant pages, so they can't claim you've doctored them.
    Thanks. We just printed it off at first but I then thought they might just change it so photographed the laptop showing web page, date, time etc so hopefully all covered!

    Our HR lady drafted a letter within two hours of updating her, she's been a huge help. 
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,456
    Any update?
  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,492
    Only that the 'interview process' has now been postponed while HR mull over the latest letter. Think they're starting to get the hint that Mrs T isn't just going to dance to their tune. 
  • northstandsteve
    northstandsteve Posts: 14,329
    Love all the people on here giving opinions, you want to try running a business , with all the laws, covering a position for two years it’s a hell of a ask.As bob Munro says after two years they don’t have to give her , her old job back.

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