EastTerrace said:

Although I’ll be taking it, I’ll respect the choice of the individual.

Most of us get in a car most days knowing that it has a high possibility of
being a killing machine. Even if we drive safely and even if any accident may not be our fault, we still decide to do it, knowing the danger to others.

Not a good analogy. There's always a section of the population who can't take a vaccine because of a compromised immune system. That's why it's so important that as many people as possible take it and we reach the threshold for herd immunity as soon as possible. It's not just a case of 'sod it, I'll not get the vaccine and if I get it I'm young and strong enough to banter it off', it's a case of not being a plague vector that can cause a potentially fatal virus to be passed onto vulnerable people. I have absolutely no respect for the choice of the individual who decides they would rather disregard the science in front of them because they're just not quite sure than take the jab and protect the people around them. I have as much respect for that choice as I do for the drink driver who decides to get in their car because they'd rather save money on a taxi and they only live down the road. The vaccine will be thoroughly tested and if it passes all the required checks it will be safe.

kigelia said:

Major said:

Some people are going to make a bundle out of all this. Just like they do out of wars.

With the China Virus, there is a 99% + survival rate, depending on age group and any pre-existing conditions.

Unfortunately there are some fatalities but there are usually many more from the seasonal flu which has miraculously disappeared. It's all 'Covid' now.

The top 'Expert' in the USA - Dr. Fauci is now saying that even after the vaccine, masks and social distancing will still need to be in place.

The Canadian Prime Minister has just announced that 'Covid' is providing an opportunity for a societal 'Reset'.

I happen to feel all this controlling of the populace has a lot more to it than our 'safety'.

Just my opinion, of course, based on what I have read.

Utter rubbish. Seasonal flu in the uk has an average death rate (in the last 4 years of data that Public Health England have) or around 12000 per year. Covid19 has killed 4 times that many. From personal experience I have seen Unwell people with both but only with covid19 have I seen someone deteriorate from reasonably stable to near death in under an hour with nothing I do making any difference. 

Please tell me what you have read? 

I have no problem with people being cautious about taking the vaccine. I have a problem with people reading Ill-informed rubbish online and thinking they are an expert.

I have often been concerned with free-speech as it means stupid people have it too. 

It's no surprise to me which people are saying they are unlikely, at this stage, to get a vaccine.
To be honest I play a little game "of guess what they will say" before I read their original post and I've guessed the majority correctly.

Whilst I’ll get the Vaccine myself (probably not anytime soon) I do think it’s unfair to jump on anyone not wanting to do so because of such a short testing period. 

seth plum said:

If the vaccine means Bill Gates injects microsoft updates into your body so as to force 5g masts to create a paedophile ring involving kids kept in cages in great caverns under the Pentagon and Buckingham Palace with the undead Jeffrey Epstein acting as ringmaster by travelling on a supertube between the two sites.
What happens if you use Apple devices?

Seth, please keep off the David Icke Website. 

shine166 said:

Jints said:

EastTerrace said:

Although I’ll be taking it, I’ll respect the choice of the individual.

Most of us get in a car most days knowing that it has a high possibility of
being a killing machine. Even if we drive safely and even if any accident may not be our fault, we still decide to do it, knowing the danger to others.

Sure, nobody should be obliged to take the vaccine if they don't want to. But it's not a choice without consequences on the rest of us. If they catch teh virus, they can spread it to others and if they become seriously ill they will cost the NHS (and therefore us) a significant amount of time and cost. Those who have chosen not to be vaccinated should not be allowed to use public transport or go to pubs or restaurants or sporting events until rates are down to insifgnificant levels. 

Well if youre being vaccinated, I can't pass it to you can I?

Love the way people are reminded that, this is down to choice... but if you turn it down and a vulnerable person near you dies its all on them... and if you don't get the jab, you should stay in lockdown for the rest of eternity. 

Yes of course you could if a vaccination is not 100% effective.
The two announced so far are not 100% effective.

I don't use Facebook anymore, and the conspiracy theories around the Covid vaccine are an illustration as to why.  Social media is an idiot farm, basically.

Opinion and informed, educated judgement are not the same thing.

The evidence is all out there. However, I have, unfortunately met a couple of examples of the type of folk who, having consulted the sage wisdom of the 'experts in their field' on Facebook etc. believe:
 
That climate change is a 'scam'.
That homeopathy 'works'
That vaccination doesn't

Despite all the evidence and simple reason pointing to the opposite conclusion and their pet theories having more logical holes than a machine-gunned colander.  Unsurprisingly, these folk have not been the sharpest knives in the drawer, to put it mildly.  In fact, they are probably the definition of stupid, but they often have the loudest voices in the social media age and what's more, they believe that their opinion is as valid as an expert's.  And that is it everyone else that is stupid.  However, I bet that these folk still take their cars to a mechanic when it breaks down and still visit a dentist rather than attempting to fix their car/teeth themselves.  Curious.

The reason that many, including myself, feel strongly about this matter is because, ultimately, it is a matter of life and death.  When you have people dying of communicable diseases that were once eradicated due to vaccine enabled herd immunity, then the buck has to stop somewhere and that somewhere is the credulous individuals who have allowed their paranoia and lack of logic to lead to those preventable deaths.

I don't like the term 'anti-vaxxer'; I think 'kiddy killer' is far more to the point, even though in this case it would be mainly the elderly and those with weakened immune systems and pre-existing health conditions that would bear the brunt.  But that isn't as snappy, so I'll stick with the former, I think.

Jints said:

shine166 said:

Jints said:

EastTerrace said:

Although I’ll be taking it, I’ll respect the choice of the individual.

Most of us get in a car most days knowing that it has a high possibility of
being a killing machine. Even if we drive safely and even if any accident may not be our fault, we still decide to do it, knowing the danger to others.

Sure, nobody should be obliged to take the vaccine if they don't want to. But it's not a choice without consequences on the rest of us. If they catch teh virus, they can spread it to others and if they become seriously ill they will cost the NHS (and therefore us) a significant amount of time and cost. Those who have chosen not to be vaccinated should not be allowed to use public transport or go to pubs or restaurants or sporting events until rates are down to insifgnificant levels. 

Well if youre being vaccinated, I can't pass it to you can I?

Love the way people are reminded that, this is down to choice... but if you turn it down and a vulnerable person near you dies its all on them... and if you don't get the jab, you should stay in lockdown for the rest of eternity. 

You can pass it on to other people who have chose not to have a vaccine (and of course the 5-10% for whom the vaccine won't work). That would be fine if people who choose not to be vaccinated were paying the costs of hospitalisation (£400 per day, much more if in ICU) but they're not. I'll choose to take the vaccine as soon as it's available at what I perceive to be a negligible risk to me. If you choose not to, that's fien but why should anyone other that you have to pay for the 

Are you advocating that some tax payers get treatment but not others? 

Jints said:

iainment said:

Jints said:

shine166 said:

Jints said:

EastTerrace said:

Although I’ll be taking it, I’ll respect the choice of the individual.

Most of us get in a car most days knowing that it has a high possibility of
being a killing machine. Even if we drive safely and even if any accident may not be our fault, we still decide to do it, knowing the danger to others.

Sure, nobody should be obliged to take the vaccine if they don't want to. But it's not a choice without consequences on the rest of us. If they catch teh virus, they can spread it to others and if they become seriously ill they will cost the NHS (and therefore us) a significant amount of time and cost. Those who have chosen not to be vaccinated should not be allowed to use public transport or go to pubs or restaurants or sporting events until rates are down to insifgnificant levels. 

Well if youre being vaccinated, I can't pass it to you can I?

Love the way people are reminded that, this is down to choice... but if you turn it down and a vulnerable person near you dies its all on them... and if you don't get the jab, you should stay in lockdown for the rest of eternity. 

You can pass it on to other people who have chose not to have a vaccine (and of course the 5-10% for whom the vaccine won't work). That would be fine if people who choose not to be vaccinated were paying the costs of hospitalisation (£400 per day, much more if in ICU) but they're not. I'll choose to take the vaccine as soon as it's available at what I perceive to be a negligible risk to me. If you choose not to, that's fien but why should anyone other that you have to pay for the 

Are you advocating that some tax payers get treatment but not others? 

No, obviously not. Anyone who doesn't take the vaccine risks catching the virus and spreading it to others. That has implication for the NHS in terms of capacity and cost. Therefore, anyone not vaccinated should be refused access to pubs etc until the virus has been reduced to mimimal levels. 

I mentioned similar about going to pubs, flights etc, and I am not advocating such a policy. 

thewolfboy said:

Interesting that Prof Sucharit Bhakdi says he wouldn't take the vaccine and states that the Covid-19 'cases' are way overstated because the PCR test is totally inappropriate. His example is comparing the alcohol breathalyser test: if we drank a milligram of alcohol the breathalyser test would register it but the police wouldn't stop us from driving but a comparable amount of Covid-19 up our nose would mean ten days quarantine. The Youtube video is well worth a look. I'd be interested in our scientific bods, such as Shooterhillguru, response to his claims.

The milligram of alcohol doesn't replicate.  The virus will.

Is the number of deaths also 'way overstated'?

I'm halfway through the Prof's one hour video.  He seems blissfully unaware that a virus can replicate.  Also, several inconsistencies (eg "the virus has been around since the start of mankind ... it's not new" versus "the virus mutates ... otherwise our body would kick it out").

He seems well-intentioned.  Speaks well, non-threatening.  I'm sure he has no hidden agenda. 

Just another living in La-La-Dreamland.  And, at the age of 74, and with some blood pressure issues and no vaccine, I hope he doesn't get the virus.

thewolfboy said:

Interesting that Prof Sucharit Bhakdi says he wouldn't take the vaccine and states that the Covid-19 'cases' are way overstated because the PCR test is totally inappropriate. His example is comparing the alcohol breathalyser test: if we drank a milligram of alcohol the breathalyser test would register it but the police wouldn't stop us from driving but a comparable amount of Covid-19 up our nose would mean ten days quarantine. The Youtube video is well worth a look. I'd be interested in our scientific bods, such as Shooterhillguru, response to his claims.

If I get time I’ll check him out but on the face of it he sounds like Captain Redbeard to me.

Of interest, I think. On the Millwall HOF site, they also have a Covid-19 vaccine poll that asks:
When offered, are you going to take the vaccine? Basic Yes/No response.
Surprisingly the last time I looked 41.7 voted NO! Quite a big difference between their response and ours and I don't understand why. Mind you, a lot of their fans were stating something like, 'Let someone else (preferably a politician) take it first and I'll see what happens.

thewolfboy said:

Of interest, I think. On the Millwall HOF site, they also have a Covid-19 vaccine poll that asks:
When offered, are you going to take the vaccine? Basic Yes/No response.
Surprisingly the last time I looked 41.7 voted NO! Quite a big difference between their response and ours and I don't understand why. Mind you, a lot of their fans were stating something like, 'Let someone else (preferably a politician) take it first and I'll see what happens.

IQ?

suzisausage said:

Why do people who don't agree with someone elses opinion on a poll asking get annoyed and start getting derogatory to everyone hasn't voted their way? Dont worry - the guys at pfizer wont see this poll and divert their needles elsewhere.

I voted for whatever the middle option was. I have no strong feeling either way to be honest. I'd consider myself quite low on the priority list, so wouldn't be likely to get it till the second half of next year i reckon, so any fears of side effects will be discovered by those in the front of the queue.  I'm also quite happy to continue with this reclusive life for a bit longer. 

I think the reason why I'm not desperate for a jab is because my first instinct for any 'condition' i may have isn't to pop a pill, get a jab, make a docs appointment etc. Not consciously and I'm certainly not anti medication, but it seems that I prefer natural methods, peppermint tea, sleep, water, heat packs, cool packs etc. thankfully I've not had much in my life to require much else so I'm hesitant to put my hand up for a jab when there are others who would want it, and need it more than me.  I'm not veggie/vegan or a hippy, in fact, I've never even thought about why i feel indifferent about the jab until this thread and think this is the only way i can explain it. 

I am the same, prefer to let my body fight anything before I go and see a DR that gives a magic pill. Too many antibiotics are given unnecessarily in my opinion but that's another subject.
I am not anti vax or anything and I won't be a priority for a vaccine but I can understand peoples concerns.
Some of the finger points and outright bully behaviour on here by some respected people is totally out of order.

Leroy Ambrose said:

Antibiotic resistance is a massive problem, and has been known about for 30 years. Doctors won't prescribe you antibiotics now unless it is absolutely essential to fight an infection - whereas they used to just dish them out like sweets when I was a kid - so your assertion that 'too many antibiotics are given' might have rung true in the past, but absolutely does not now.

Your other point about 'letting your body fight something' makes no sense in this context. You might be able to fight off cancer, but you'd be a fool not to avail yourself of the medical treatments available for it. Similarly, with this virus, your body won't have encountered it before - so not taking a vaccine leaves you at risk of dying of it. It's not a cold, mate. It can kill you. 

I will agree to disagree about antibiotics being given out too freely still. My son was given antibiotics for ear infections from aged 2-5 unnecessarily- and that was told to me by an ENT specialist after referral. The NHS is amazing but let's not say its faultless. Maybe in your opinion its not a problem but in mine it it is so rather than me get annoyed id rather agree to disagree like I said.
I know a vaccine leaves me at risk. I've travelled and had vaccines and never thought twice about what was injected in to me. Like I say I'm not anti. But I know lots of people that are not keen on this vaccine including my old man. Hes 70 in February and has had treatment for prostate cancer twice as it had spread after radiotherapy. He is not even willing to take this vaccine until he knows more he told me today. Hes a retired builder by trade and until the cancer hardly ever visited a doctor in his life so I understand hes a bit of a rare breed nowadays and I've had plenty of rows with him about it over the years. However it made me realise that getting to 90% of the population to take a vaccine isn't going to be easy. There are a lot of people with concerns aswell as those with theories but I think its better that people feel free to discuss these without ridicule. Ridicule and finger pointing are not helpful to an important debate otherwise I think people just avoid commenting in fear of it. 

thewolfboy said:

Of interest, I think. On the Millwall HOF site, they also have a Covid-19 vaccine poll that asks:
When offered, are you going to take the vaccine? Basic Yes/No response.
Surprisingly the last time I looked 41.7 voted NO! Quite a big difference between their response and ours and I don't understand why. Mind you, a lot of their fans were stating something like, 'Let someone else (preferably a politician) take it first and I'll see what happens.

No surprise to me, as half of 'em are as thick as shit.