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Harsh on Williams today
Comments
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This is kind of my feeling on the substitution.Leuth said:Going to keep saying this, but Williams made a huge positive difference when he came on, and subbing him off was absolutely ridiculous whichever way you look at it, even if him not diving into a tackle he'd never have won was maybe a little bit soft.
Bowyer didn't choose team over player. He ruined our shape and invited Shrewsbury on even more. He chose 'discipline' over everything else.
Williams has struggled to impact games prior to Ipswich. In both the Ipswich and Shrewsbury games he was having a positive impact, to haul him off and then call him out for stepping out of one challenge is unfair. He had shown massive signs of improvement and was getting challenges in. He then jumped over one challenge that was a 50/50.
- Morgan stepped out of quite a few challenges in running games, one led to a goal another led to a 1-1 with the keeper. Morgan has since stamped that out and is looking fantastic if still inconsistent at times (as shown by his two shanked clearances.
- Bogle was constantly out of position and ignoring Bowyer's instructions, so his sub and call out made sense.
- Williams jumped one 50/50, he didn't get a chance to show he could rectify that, it did nearly lead to a goal, but the whole defensive line were there to face the attack and failed to deal with it.
The only reason I am torn is because I agree that you must treat players equally. You can't sub off Bogle and Morgan in the past, without doing the same to Williams.
I also find it incredibly harsh to call out Morgan for his shanked clearance... It happens at every level... Anyone remember this from Jenkinson?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQAeGbjU3bY
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That was a beaut.
Agree that he has started a precedent now.0 -
We need to move on from this pretty quickly, arguing amongst ourselves doesn't help us.
Its been a pretty rubbish week , but we need to look forward and stay positive.
5 more matches in December to play for, feel like we need 5 wins from them to make up for points dropped in recent games.2 -
To be honest, 2 wins and 3 draws is acceptable. or 3 wins and 2 losses IMO. The target has not changed of play offs as a minimum and we're still in the mix for that.Mendonca In Asdas said:We need to move on from this pretty quickly, arguing amongst ourselves doesn't help us.
Its been a pretty rubbish week , but we need to look forward and stay positive.
5 more matches in December to play for, feel like we need 5 wins from them to make up for points dropped in recent games.
Wimbledon - W
Bristol - D
Swindon - W
Plymouth - D
Peterborough - D1 -
I'm not a fan of managers calling out players these things should be kept in house 100% but I think everyone on here would be lying if they didn't admit that Jonny Williams is hugely frustrating regularly. Maybe jumping out of a tackle in a tight game like that was the final straw for Bowyer who has probably seen it a few times from him over the last few years. Lets not blow it out of proportion and get behind the team and manager. Anyone would think we got beat 5-0 on saturday!6
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I was rewatching Sunderland Til I Die yesterday. Notable that when he was speaking to the psychologist they discussed how he had only performed at his best when he had a manager who encouraged him, due to his deep fear of failure. He is clearly a fragile soul.
Management is all about understanding what levers to pull for each individual. Not every person responds well to being challenged, some need an arm around the shoulder.
I'm not sure if Bowyer has the motivational dexterity to work with Johnny's type, or indeed the tactical dexterity to work with creative more free spirited maverick types.
It will be interesting to see how his relationship with Innis develops over time.10 -
That was a helluva goal ..... keeper beat all ends up!Dazzler21 said:Leuth said:Going to keep saying this, but Williams made a huge positive difference when he came on, and subbing him off was absolutely ridiculous whichever way you look at it, even if him not diving into a tackle he'd never have won was maybe a little bit soft.
Bowyer didn't choose team over player. He ruined our shape and invited Shrewsbury on even more. He chose 'discipline' over everything else.
I also find it incredibly harsh to call out Morgan for his shanked clearance... It happens at every level... Anyone remember this from Jenkinson?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQAeGbjU3bY
Wenger shakes his head silently in disbelief - but no jumping up and down, berating the player or other histrionics. Bowyer please note.
And great reaction from 2 of the subs who try to comfort a distraught Jenkinson.
Your heart goes out to Jenkinson though. I've never scored an OG so spectacular ..... my handful were a couple of unlucky ricochets; a full stretch attempt to clear off the line that I couldn't keep out; plus a passback to the keeper wide of the near post that he somehow managed to fumble and divert into the net - but I got the blame! haha
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It's been a stressful, pressure-cooker year for Bowyer.balham red said:
Management is all about understanding what levers to pull for each individual. Not every person responds well to being challenged, some need an arm around the shoulder.
I'm not sure if Bowyer has the motivational dexterity to work with Johnny's type, or indeed the tactical dexterity to work with creative more free spirited maverick types.
He's knackered.
I think Bowyer just needs to go fishing.
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I do think with all the stuff going on at the club it’s bound to have taken it’s toll on Lee, I’m pleased we’ve got another week before another match, hopefully he can go to his ‘happy place’ and I don’t mean turf moor!Oggy Red said:
It's been a stressful, pressure-cooker year for Bowyer.balham red said:
Management is all about understanding what levers to pull for each individual. Not every person responds well to being challenged, some need an arm around the shoulder.
I'm not sure if Bowyer has the motivational dexterity to work with Johnny's type, or indeed the tactical dexterity to work with creative more free spirited maverick types.
He's knackered.
I think Bowyer just needs to go fishing.1 -
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He was off the pace when he came on, went down looking for free kicks which the ref saw and ignored and then bottled a tackle which could have been costly for us. Given Bowyer has already said he wants see more from him in training, I am not entirely surprised at him getting the hook although I agree it's a big step for a manager because it's a very public rebuke. You can't say 'in Bowyer we trust' every five minutes when it's going well and then start questioning whether he's up to it the minute it's not.8
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Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"7 -
I'm not sure we want a tough tackler like Inniss back in the team.balham red said:I was rewatching Sunderland Til I Die yesterday. Notable that when he was speaking to the psychologist they discussed how he had only performed at his best when he had a manager who encouraged him, due to his deep fear of failure. He is clearly a fragile soul.
Management is all about understanding what levers to pull for each individual. Not every person responds well to being challenged, some need an arm around the shoulder.
I'm not sure if Bowyer has the motivational dexterity to work with Johnny's type, or indeed the tactical dexterity to work with creative more free spirited maverick types.
It will be interesting to see how his relationship with Innis develops over time.
Surely we should be letting the opposition have a free run at goal? :-)1 -
Where is this from mate?J BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"0 -
Would like to know if they meant gone batshit for the mistakes or actually lost it?J BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"
He can't expect perfection every game from his players, just as we should not expect it from him and the players.0 -
Think Bowyer is being a bit of a nob here tbh. He seems to be losing it a little. Im not comfortable with him publicly digging out the players or trying to prove a point by subbing them early. Pull them over to the touch line and bollock them by all means, but this just seems a bit odd. As others have said, he does have history, Bonne, Morgan, Bogle, MM, the fans and he was probably a bit too honest about Levitt after Northampton this season too! Keep it in house ffs. Feels like our season is unravelling a little bit...1
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Lost it as in, 'the plot'. I can also add "that tactics are non existence"Dazzler21 said:
Would like to know if they meant gone batshit for the mistakes or actually lost it?J BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"
He can't expect perfection every game from his players, just as we should not expect it from him and the players.2 -
I recall thinking just before Williams was subbed that it was good we had him on the pitch to draw fouls and allow us to close out the game better. He may have pulled out of a tackle, but he won the ball back and won us a free kick! let him lie on the floor in fake pain for 30 seconds, allow the team to reset/organise and that is how you do it.3
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I've said end of January will be my judgement of how we're doing this season. Nothing's changed. We're still on target despite being touching distance of first a few weeks back.YTS1978 said:Think Bowyer is being a bit of a nob here tbh. He seems to be losing it a little. Im not comfortable with him publicly digging out the players or trying to prove a point by subbing them early. Pull them over to the touch line and bollock them by all means, but this just seems a bit odd. As others have said, he does have history, Bonne, Morgan, Bogle, MM, the fans and he was probably a bit too honest about Levitt after Northampton this season too! Keep it in house ffs. Feels like our season is unravelling a little bit...
Autos are still achievable, but we need to get back to being a team.0 -
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I like Bowyer and really hope we can turn it around but when MK dons played us of the park last week I thought something similar.J BLOCK said:
Lost it as in, 'the plot'. I can also add "that tactics are non existence"Dazzler21 said:
Would like to know if they meant gone batshit for the mistakes or actually lost it?J BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"
He can't expect perfection every game from his players, just as we should not expect it from him and the players.3 -
Lurker said:
I like Bowyer and really hope we can turn it around but when MK dons played us of the park last week I thought something similar.J BLOCK said:
Lost it as in, 'the plot'. I can also add "that tactics are non existence"Dazzler21 said:
Would like to know if they meant gone batshit for the mistakes or actually lost it?J BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"
He can't expect perfection every game from his players, just as we should not expect it from him and the players.
last 15 mins of the first half vs MK we were getting in to the game and IMO were on top.
Shinnie's departure screwed us for the rest of that game and, as Shrewsbury confirmed, we really miss his creativity (and tackling!) in midfield. Need him back asap.3 -
Cheers, when you say first team player were they in the starting 11 on saturday?J BLOCK said:
Lost it as in, 'the plot'. I can also add "that tactics are non existence"Dazzler21 said:
Would like to know if they meant gone batshit for the mistakes or actually lost it?J BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"
He can't expect perfection every game from his players, just as we should not expect it from him and the players.0 -
Yeah, let's be honest, we cobbled together a squad within two weeks so we are doing very well! The division is pretty average this year, so hopefully we can get back on track. I wasn't distraught after Gills, but I'm starting to get a bit more concerned after the last couple of performances. Just think Bow needs to reign it in a little with his post match comments! COYADazzler21 said:
I've said end of January will be my judgement of how we're doing this season. Nothing's changed. We're still on target despite being touching distance of first a few weeks back.YTS1978 said:Think Bowyer is being a bit of a nob here tbh. He seems to be losing it a little. Im not comfortable with him publicly digging out the players or trying to prove a point by subbing them early. Pull them over to the touch line and bollock them by all means, but this just seems a bit odd. As others have said, he does have history, Bonne, Morgan, Bogle, MM, the fans and he was probably a bit too honest about Levitt after Northampton this season too! Keep it in house ffs. Feels like our season is unravelling a little bit...
Autos are still achievable, but we need to get back to being a team.2 -
"It was a disgrace, they walked through us"Lurker said:
I like Bowyer and really hope we can turn it around but when MK dons played us of the park last week I thought something similar.J BLOCK said:
Lost it as in, 'the plot'. I can also add "that tactics are non existence"Dazzler21 said:
Would like to know if they meant gone batshit for the mistakes or actually lost it?J BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"
He can't expect perfection every game from his players, just as we should not expect it from him and the players.3 -
YepDazzler21 said:
Cheers, when you say first team player were they in the starting 11 on saturday?J BLOCK said:
Lost it as in, 'the plot'. I can also add "that tactics are non existence"Dazzler21 said:
Would like to know if they meant gone batshit for the mistakes or actually lost it?J BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"
He can't expect perfection every game from his players, just as we should not expect it from him and the players.4 -
Nothing like dangling a carrot and waiting for a responseJ BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"
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Wonder if we won't see Jackson speaking to the press after Saturday's game1
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Well then the player needs to have a look at himself and his teammates then then doesn't he because yes, their performance as a team was a disgrace.J BLOCK said:
"It was a disgrace, they walked through us"Lurker said:
I like Bowyer and really hope we can turn it around but when MK dons played us of the park last week I thought something similar.J BLOCK said:
Lost it as in, 'the plot'. I can also add "that tactics are non existence"Dazzler21 said:
Would like to know if they meant gone batshit for the mistakes or actually lost it?J BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"
He can't expect perfection every game from his players, just as we should not expect it from him and the players.
Tactics and formations are all well and good, but if you don't track your runners, can't play a ball to feet, can't control a ball to feet, bottle tackles, shank clearances back into your own penalty area and let balls bounce in your penalty area then there's no helping you.
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If true, Pratley is my guess.1
