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Art

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  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,954
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Shared it before on another thread, but Doreen Fletcher's work really appeals to me. Reckon a lot of it is because I don't think I've ever known any photo / painting / music that takes me back to a certain part of my life as much as some of her paintings do (Particularly the Benjy's one in Mile End and the one of the side of the pub Bartlett Square ((Sabbarton Arms, closed around 2000)) among others)

    https://youtu.be/ElO0oXCb9no

    https://www.doreenfletcherartist.com/


    I quite enjoyed that short film.

    Good to see some well executed topographical and figurative painted work again.
    Even though I'm sure that modernist and conceptual work has it's place, personally I really appreciate painting .... maybe because IMO the artist has to transpose composition and contrast through another medium ..... wibble wibble :smile:

  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    edited January 2021
    Talal said:
    shine166 said:
    Same fella that painted the blurry heads. You may have a natural talent, keep it up.. enjoying doing it is the main thing. 



    Wasn't such a fan of the blurry heads but that is quality. 

    Conor Harrington is amazing and easily my favourite current artist - there are very few pieces he releases that I wouldn't choose to buy.

    Thanks to @shine166 for pointing me in his direction a couple of years ago.

    I love his black and white stuff, I have these two in my collection (both quite large prints):

    httpswwwmyartbrokercomwp-contentuploads2020104820_ConorHarrington_SmallTownTaleWithGlobalPunch_Screenprint_Print_2014-7c3f3d4fa6607c8c41c5f29b821d7da6-800x533jpg
    httpsd7hftxdivxxvmcloudfrontnetresize_tofitwidth488height640quality80srchttps3A2F2Fd32dm0rphc51dkcloudfrontnet2FQ1uaaX4-qGVT6O-xe-dGxQ2Flargejpg

    These are on my list but quite rare:

    httpwwwifitshipitsherecomwp-contentuploads201610Transformer-by-Conor-Harrington-IIHIHjpg

    httpwwwifitshipitsherecomwp-contentuploads201610conor-harrington-Hide-and-Seek-IIHIHjpg
    httpwwwgraffitistreetcomwp-contentuploads201611Conor-harrington-Hide-And-Seek-Print-square-1-900x900jpg

    Plus 'Fight Club' posted by shine.
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,164
    DOUCHER said:
    this is gonna go down like a sack of shit on an art lovers thread i guess but having taken up painting recently (and really enjoying it), i've realised how easy it is and now see even less in other peoples paintings - to me, that mexican stuff looks like the sort of things that would be hanging on the wall wall of a primary school after doing a mexican project week or something   - as for the blurry heads above those - somebody's having you over - take an hour to put them together 
    Is it by numbers?
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,897
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,484
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
    Let's see a few of your paintings. If it's easy to you I can only assume you have a natural talent as I can't paint for shit. 
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,897
    Talal said:
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
    Let's see a few of your paintings. If it's easy to you I can only assume you have a natural talent as I can't paint for shit. 
    ok - i only started day after boxing day so only have 4 in my 'portfolio' at the moment - half way through my 5th - will upload them once i finish that one - piece of piss 
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,954
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  

    It's always said that art is subjective, Doucher. Each to their own, eh?


  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,897
    Oggy Red said:
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  

    It's always said that art is subjective, Doucher. Each to their own, eh?


    absolutely Oggy - if you like something, you like it and that's that - some like budweiser, others think its beer for people who don't like beer - some like pinot noir, others think its thin garbage for people who don't really like red wine  - all you can do is accept they have different tastes but i do wonder sometimes.  
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,954
    Good point, Doucher ...... Budweiser really is a beer for people who don't like beer. :smile:

    But we do all see things differently. We'd just be clones otherwise.


  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    edited January 2021
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
    Art is not produced, it is created. 
    A good draughtsman produces work, an artist expresses their imagination.
    It reminds me of a conversation I had in a pub in Wembley, probably about 25 years ago. There was a two piece band playing, guitarist/vocalist and a drummer. They were pretty good technically and were knocking our mainly Dire Straits stuff. One of the guys I was with said to me that he couldn’t understand why these guys were earning maybe a ton on a Friday night in a pub, while Knopfler was a multi-million selling superstar. I replied ‘Knopfler created it, these guys are just copying it’. He just nodded in acceptance!

    Let’s see photos of your ‘original thought’ - maybe you are a star to be discovered!
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  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,954
    bobmunro said:
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  


    Let’s see photos of your ‘original thought’ - maybe you are a star to be discovered!
    Haha ...... that was tempting, eh, Doucher? But I resisted. :wink:


  • Six-a-bag-of-nuts
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts Posts: 8,127
    shine166 said:
    Not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but this is a new addition by Jonny Green 


    Ah yes, the famous Dowie portrait
  • Clem_Snide
    Clem_Snide Posts: 11,737
    I don't know anything about art. However, I love the work Ralph Steadman does and also Lesley Ditto. 
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,897
    bobmunro said:
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
    Art is not produced, it is created. 
    A good draughtsman produces work, an artist expresses their imagination.
    It reminds me of a conversation I had in a pub in Wembley, probably about 25 years ago. There was a two piece band playing, guitarist/vocalist and a drummer. They were pretty good technically and were knocking our mainly Dire Straits stuff. One of the guys I was with said to me that he couldn’t understand why these guys were earning maybe a ton on a Friday night in a pub, while Knopfler was a multi-million selling superstar. I replied ‘Knopfler created it, these guys are just copying it’. He just nodded in acceptance!

    Let’s see photos of your ‘original thought’ - maybe you are a star to be discovered!
    i'd be genuinely interested in hearing what original thought you see in the paintings above and why you think it's so good 
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,021
    DOUCHER said:
    bobmunro said:
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
    Art is not produced, it is created. 
    A good draughtsman produces work, an artist expresses their imagination.
    It reminds me of a conversation I had in a pub in Wembley, probably about 25 years ago. There was a two piece band playing, guitarist/vocalist and a drummer. They were pretty good technically and were knocking our mainly Dire Straits stuff. One of the guys I was with said to me that he couldn’t understand why these guys were earning maybe a ton on a Friday night in a pub, while Knopfler was a multi-million selling superstar. I replied ‘Knopfler created it, these guys are just copying it’. He just nodded in acceptance!

    Let’s see photos of your ‘original thought’ - maybe you are a star to be discovered!
    i'd be genuinely interested in hearing what original thought you see in the paintings above and why you think it's so good 
    I don't particularly like those Harrington paintings. I wouldn't buy one (not that I could afford it), I wouldn't have one on my wall and if I owned one I'd treat it purely as an investment. That said, I can appreciate that there's something about them that transcends the banal, I like this, I don't like that, each to their own, level of evaluation. 

    For me, what makes them original and genuinely talented is a tension between the degrees of finish within the same picture. Take, for example, the picture of the guy in the red jacket. The lustre on that mask and the detail on the buttons is astounding. It reminds me of Jan Jansz. Treck or perhaps some of the modern photorealists. Yet these areas contrast massively with the rougher more loosely textured areas. If you looked at these elements individually you could be forgiven for thinking that they were from different pictures, but seen as a whole they are entirely congruent. 

    Look at that big blob of yellow hair to the left of the subject's head. If you stare at it directly, it looks odd: A mad splash of an out of place colour. Now look at the face, and just notice the hair from the corner of your eye, it's perfect. That is original and it is highly talented.

    I'm going to stop now before I talk myself into liking it.
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,916
    edited January 2021
    DOUCHER said:
    bobmunro said:
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
    Art is not produced, it is created. 
    A good draughtsman produces work, an artist expresses their imagination.
    It reminds me of a conversation I had in a pub in Wembley, probably about 25 years ago. There was a two piece band playing, guitarist/vocalist and a drummer. They were pretty good technically and were knocking our mainly Dire Straits stuff. One of the guys I was with said to me that he couldn’t understand why these guys were earning maybe a ton on a Friday night in a pub, while Knopfler was a multi-million selling superstar. I replied ‘Knopfler created it, these guys are just copying it’. He just nodded in acceptance!

    Let’s see photos of your ‘original thought’ - maybe you are a star to be discovered!
    i'd be genuinely interested in hearing what original thought you see in the paintings above and why you think it's so good 
    Harrington paints like a modern master, go stand infront of his Greenwich mural, if you can paint like that I can get you hi end 5 figure sums for a few days work.
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,897
    Stig said:
    DOUCHER said:
    bobmunro said:
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
    Art is not produced, it is created. 
    A good draughtsman produces work, an artist expresses their imagination.
    It reminds me of a conversation I had in a pub in Wembley, probably about 25 years ago. There was a two piece band playing, guitarist/vocalist and a drummer. They were pretty good technically and were knocking our mainly Dire Straits stuff. One of the guys I was with said to me that he couldn’t understand why these guys were earning maybe a ton on a Friday night in a pub, while Knopfler was a multi-million selling superstar. I replied ‘Knopfler created it, these guys are just copying it’. He just nodded in acceptance!

    Let’s see photos of your ‘original thought’ - maybe you are a star to be discovered!
    i'd be genuinely interested in hearing what original thought you see in the paintings above and why you think it's so good 
    I don't particularly like those Harrington paintings. I wouldn't buy one (not that I could afford it), I wouldn't have one on my wall and if I owned one I'd treat it purely as an investment. That said, I can appreciate that there's something about them that transcends the banal, I like this, I don't like that, each to their own, level of evaluation. 

    For me, what makes them original and genuinely talented is a tension between the degrees of finish within the same picture. Take, for example, the picture of the guy in the red jacket. The lustre on that mask and the detail on the buttons is astounding. It reminds me of Jan Jansz. Treck or perhaps some of the modern photorealists. Yet these areas contrast massively with the rougher more loosely textured areas. If you looked at these elements individually you could be forgiven for thinking that they were from different pictures, but seen as a whole they are entirely congruent. 

    Look at that big blob of yellow hair to the left of the subject's head. If you stare at it directly, it looks odd: A mad splash of an out of place colour. Now look at the face, and just notice the hair from the corner of your eye, it's perfect. That is original and it is highly talented.

    I'm going to stop now before I talk myself into liking it.
    ok, many thanks  -i know next to nothing about art so maybe that is why i still look at the paintings above and see a mash up of different pictures added into one, a blurring of the colours and some wacky splashes of colour here and there - each to their own
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,897
    shine166 said:
    DOUCHER said:
    bobmunro said:
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
    Art is not produced, it is created. 
    A good draughtsman produces work, an artist expresses their imagination.
    It reminds me of a conversation I had in a pub in Wembley, probably about 25 years ago. There was a two piece band playing, guitarist/vocalist and a drummer. They were pretty good technically and were knocking our mainly Dire Straits stuff. One of the guys I was with said to me that he couldn’t understand why these guys were earning maybe a ton on a Friday night in a pub, while Knopfler was a multi-million selling superstar. I replied ‘Knopfler created it, these guys are just copying it’. He just nodded in acceptance!

    Let’s see photos of your ‘original thought’ - maybe you are a star to be discovered!
    i'd be genuinely interested in hearing what original thought you see in the paintings above and why you think it's so good 
    Harrington paints like a modern master, go stand infront of his Greenwich mural, if you can paint like that I can get you hi end 5 figure sums for a few days work.
    will do - at the moment i'm starting to think that portraits are a true test of an artist - if the true test is being able to exactly replicate something - the other sides to art are a lot more subjective i guess 
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    DOUCHER said:
    shine166 said:
    DOUCHER said:
    bobmunro said:
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
    Art is not produced, it is created. 
    A good draughtsman produces work, an artist expresses their imagination.
    It reminds me of a conversation I had in a pub in Wembley, probably about 25 years ago. There was a two piece band playing, guitarist/vocalist and a drummer. They were pretty good technically and were knocking our mainly Dire Straits stuff. One of the guys I was with said to me that he couldn’t understand why these guys were earning maybe a ton on a Friday night in a pub, while Knopfler was a multi-million selling superstar. I replied ‘Knopfler created it, these guys are just copying it’. He just nodded in acceptance!

    Let’s see photos of your ‘original thought’ - maybe you are a star to be discovered!
    i'd be genuinely interested in hearing what original thought you see in the paintings above and why you think it's so good 
    Harrington paints like a modern master, go stand infront of his Greenwich mural, if you can paint like that I can get you hi end 5 figure sums for a few days work.
    will do - at the moment i'm starting to think that portraits are a true test of an artist - if the true test is being able to exactly replicate something - the other sides to art are a lot more subjective i guess 

    The ability to exactly replicate something with a paint brush is an incredible skill, but for me that is the skill of a technician, a draughtsman. Portraits - looking like a photograph is draughting, Picasso or van Gogh revealed so much more than their ability to recreate reality. That's not to decry the technicians skills, but for me art has to reveal more than that.

    Let's take a subject dear to all true Charlton fan's hearts - trains!

    There's this an an example of draughtsmanship:



    Technically brilliant but, for me, lacks the exposure of the artist's imagination.

    Then there's this masterpiece:



    For me the first is to admire, the second is to look in wonder and awe.

    But as you say - art appreciation is one of the most subjective of topics.
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,897
    agreed - i can appreciate the skill in the train picture but see very little no talent in the bottom picture  
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  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,897
    imagination is something i' don't believe i have ever lacked, maybe that is why i don't appreciate it as much - sounds a bit up your own arsey but so be it - similarly, i prefer to read factual or analytical type books rather than fiction as i just think that anybody could make a story up and its not that difficult - boring even - who knows, who cares even - each to their own is probably about right. 
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,916
    edited January 2021
    This Picasso quote sums it up perfectly and was a natural genius.

    'It took me four years to paint like Raphael, but a lifetime to paint like a child'
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,897
    shine166 said:
    This Picasso quote sums it up perfectly and was a natural genius.

    'It took me four years to paint like Raphael, but a lifetime to paint like a child'
    'not got the brains he was born with' might be another - only joking, i'm sure picasso must have had something - not something i've ever wanted, mind you   
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    edited January 2021
    DOUCHER said:
    agreed - i can appreciate the skill in the train picture but see very little no talent in the bottom picture  

    Yes - JMW Turner was a charlatan of the highest order!

    There's a lot of 'Emperor's new clothes' in the artworld - 'I have to like it because I'm supposed to like it' - but if you like something it's because you get something from it, not because you are expected to. Nothing to do with being up your own arsey.

    I love this as a portrait:



    Most of his other work that he is famous for leaves me cold.
  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,484
    That made me think of The Gorillaz. 
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    DOUCHER said:
    imagination is something i' don't believe i have ever lacked, maybe that is why i don't appreciate it as much - sounds a bit up your own arsey but so be it - similarly, i prefer to read factual or analytical type books rather than fiction as i just think that anybody could make a story up and its not that difficult - boring even - who knows, who cares even - each to their own is probably about right. 

    You must realise that if you make the effort, you could be the first to win both the Turner and Booker prizes.
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,164
    bobmunro said:
    DOUCHER said:
    shine166 said:
    DOUCHER said:
    bobmunro said:
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
    Art is not produced, it is created. 
    A good draughtsman produces work, an artist expresses their imagination.
    It reminds me of a conversation I had in a pub in Wembley, probably about 25 years ago. There was a two piece band playing, guitarist/vocalist and a drummer. They were pretty good technically and were knocking our mainly Dire Straits stuff. One of the guys I was with said to me that he couldn’t understand why these guys were earning maybe a ton on a Friday night in a pub, while Knopfler was a multi-million selling superstar. I replied ‘Knopfler created it, these guys are just copying it’. He just nodded in acceptance!

    Let’s see photos of your ‘original thought’ - maybe you are a star to be discovered!
    i'd be genuinely interested in hearing what original thought you see in the paintings above and why you think it's so good 
    Harrington paints like a modern master, go stand infront of his Greenwich mural, if you can paint like that I can get you hi end 5 figure sums for a few days work.
    will do - at the moment i'm starting to think that portraits are a true test of an artist - if the true test is being able to exactly replicate something - the other sides to art are a lot more subjective i guess 

    The ability to exactly replicate something with a paint brush is an incredible skill, but for me that is the skill of a technician, a draughtsman. Portraits - looking like a photograph is draughting, Picasso or van Gogh revealed so much more than their ability to recreate reality. That's not to decry the technicians skills, but for me art has to reveal more than that.

    Let's take a subject dear to all true Charlton fan's hearts - trains!

    There's this an an example of draughtsmanship:



    Technically brilliant but, for me, lacks the exposure of the artist's imagination.

    Then there's this masterpiece:



    For me the first is to admire, the second is to look in wonder and awe.

    But as you say - art appreciation is one of the most subjective of topics.

    Not sure how you can really compare the two, even as an exercise, as they are so remote from each other?
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    sillav nitram said:
    bobmunro said:
    DOUCHER said:
    shine166 said:
    DOUCHER said:
    bobmunro said:
    DOUCHER said:
    each to their own - you must see something in these pictures that i don't and must think there is a lot more to producing them than there is - i'm not convinced but if you are, that all that matters  - and there's no question at all that that mexican gallery has been opened by somebody with even less talent coz if he appreciates those paintings, he's viewing from a very low skilled perspective  
    Art is not produced, it is created. 
    A good draughtsman produces work, an artist expresses their imagination.
    It reminds me of a conversation I had in a pub in Wembley, probably about 25 years ago. There was a two piece band playing, guitarist/vocalist and a drummer. They were pretty good technically and were knocking our mainly Dire Straits stuff. One of the guys I was with said to me that he couldn’t understand why these guys were earning maybe a ton on a Friday night in a pub, while Knopfler was a multi-million selling superstar. I replied ‘Knopfler created it, these guys are just copying it’. He just nodded in acceptance!

    Let’s see photos of your ‘original thought’ - maybe you are a star to be discovered!
    i'd be genuinely interested in hearing what original thought you see in the paintings above and why you think it's so good 
    Harrington paints like a modern master, go stand infront of his Greenwich mural, if you can paint like that I can get you hi end 5 figure sums for a few days work.
    will do - at the moment i'm starting to think that portraits are a true test of an artist - if the true test is being able to exactly replicate something - the other sides to art are a lot more subjective i guess 

    The ability to exactly replicate something with a paint brush is an incredible skill, but for me that is the skill of a technician, a draughtsman. Portraits - looking like a photograph is draughting, Picasso or van Gogh revealed so much more than their ability to recreate reality. That's not to decry the technicians skills, but for me art has to reveal more than that.

    Let's take a subject dear to all true Charlton fan's hearts - trains!

    There's this an an example of draughtsmanship:



    Technically brilliant but, for me, lacks the exposure of the artist's imagination.

    Then there's this masterpiece:



    For me the first is to admire, the second is to look in wonder and awe.

    But as you say - art appreciation is one of the most subjective of topics.

    Not sure how you can really compare the two, even as an exercise, as they are so remote from each other?

    I wasn't comparing, I was contrasting!
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,916
    edited January 2021
    DOUCHER said:
    shine166 said:
    This Picasso quote sums it up perfectly and was a natural genius.

    'It took me four years to paint like Raphael, but a lifetime to paint like a child'
    'not got the brains he was born with' might be another - only joking, i'm sure picasso must have had something - not something i've ever wanted, mind you   
    No, but the point is, this is the kind of thing he was painting before he was 15. 99% of artists have learned the basics, Jackson Pollock didn't just start off with splashing paint :).


  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,846
    This is a pencil drawing. 

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