Post Match Thread: Hull City v Charlton | Sat 02 Jan 2021

ForeverAddickted said:

Cafc43v3r said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Cafc43v3r said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Cafc43v3r said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Cafc43v3r said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Cafc43v3r said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Covered End said:

stoneroses19 said:

J BLOCK said:

A loss against Accrington and the heat is seriously on Bowyer

Bowyer is on a lose-lose situation with a few people on here for Friday.

Lose and it’ll be ranting and get rid.
Draw and it’ll probably be slightly similar. 

Win and it’ll be “well we should be beating teams like Accrington”,

So are you saying Charlton shouldn't be beating teams like Accrington, who struggled to get 1,000 supporters in L2 recently? 

Blimey some think we should be established in the Premier League and others think we should think ourselves fortunate if we can beat Accrington (who are they) Stanley.

You're right we should be beating teams like Accrington - But at the same time they're in their position on merit so they deserve to be respected

The fact they've previously struggled to get 1,000 supporters should have nothing to do with it

I'd be pretty pissed if I was reading on Social Media about our Championship / Premier League opponents in the future bemoaning they should be beating us, simply because we were once in League One with only 10,000 fans

Am sure a number of our more delicate fanbase would be too

You really need to stop digging this hole, it's beyond admirable now, your actually making your self sound like a twat. 

@Covered End can be a knob, sometimes like most of us, but how can you argue that?

If Bowyer played Amos up front on Friday you would probably defend that under the "if it's good enough for Man City in 2005 its good enough for us now". 

So what you think we only have to turn up because we're Charlton and they're Accrington because of the size of the fanbase?

Cmon dont be a prick like that!! - Certainly dont need to start using insulting language against me thats for sure!! 

I didn't say you were a twat, I said you are starting to sound like one.  I know for a fact you aren't one but your really clutching at straws now. 

Your really defending the indefensible. 

Using one youth game to suggest Maatsen is comfortable as a right midfielder?

OK say your theory that it was a good idea for Matthews to play at LB to nullify Wilkes, who I admit is one of the better players in this divison, is sound (despite no other manager in the world regularly doing it) which high quality inverted winger did we come across in the last game?

I think Bowyer's time is up, most people don't agree with me but almost to a man (and woman) they are questioning his selections and tactics.  Your the only person who has even tried to defend it.   And your examples are getting more and more desperate to justify it.

Do you, in both honesty and hindsight, think it was a good idea to play Matthews at left back and Maatsen on the right of midfield? 

You've completely just changed the whole argument from the one we were discussing

Nice of you to completely skirt that one

As for using a Youth Game to suggest Maatsen is comfortable (I firstly didnt use that word)... I was simply using it to show he's played there before

Upon completion of the game I felt Maatsen was no stronger / weaker at Left-Back (second half) to when he was Right-Midfield, same with Matthews when he was Left-Back and then Right-Back in the second

At the start of the game I was certainly surprised as presumed Maatsen would be playing ahead of Matthews (similar to Plymouth)

Now then... As for the genuine comment that you replied to... Do you think we only need to turn up to beat Accrington because of their fanbase?

Because of the fan base directly, no, because the fact the chairman has to publish the bar takings to explain how he pays the for the kit to be washed probably. 

All other things being equal, despite the last 7 years, we are as close to Man United as a club than we are to Accrington Stanley.

As with 90% of games at this level, with this squad, set up right, set up positive, we should win 7 or 8 times out of ten. 

Don't you agree? 

Of course... I'm happy to agree with that statement

BUT and I said this last week (maybe a few weeks ago), we're not going to win every game are we, thats impossible

Even to match the points tally from 2018/19 we're allowed to lose and draw a maximum of five games... So its likely we'll drop points in ten games minimum

Which ten do you think that'll be?

The next ten if we set up like we have in the last ten. 

Obviously we don't need to win them all but we need to try and win them all. 

Winning every game, if not impossible, is highly unlikely but trying to win every game should be the bare minimum at this level. 

I'll ask a question now. 

Do you, honestly, think Bowyer has sent out the team, or even close to it, most likely to win (not not loose) the last 3 or 4 games? 

Sooooo....

Hull: No... The way we started it did feel like we were going for a draw or smash and grab
Plymouth: Yes... I thought we started well and stupid individual errors gave our attack too much to do
Swindon: Yes... the line up was good but we didnt handle the pressure well enough

I'll skip Wimbledon

Shrewsbury: Yes... Again the line up was good, but we dont like being put under pressure

See my issue isnt that I dont like being critical of Bowyer - Its just I dont like to use the advantage of having hindsight... I know there will be fans like yourself who'll have a good understanding and will be able to predict what might happen from the team select. But every week from 2pm until 3pm on the Match Thread you'll have enough people on there predicting defeat from every line up that Bowyer selects, when it doesnt necessarily happen... e.g. the biggest one being when Pratley / Watson are selected in Midfield together

See I am a big fan of the Pratley/Watson double pivot (despite the fact Bowyer playes them the wrong way round) on the condition I get 2 of Maddison, Morgan, Williams or Shinnie there as well.

And that for me is the second biggest problem (after out of position players) what % of games have 2 of those 4 been on the pitch at the same time, let alone 3.  That's what I mean by trying to win games as not trying to loose them. 

You see finding someone to replace Shinnie has been the biggest issue of late... More so than Doughty in midfield

It might have been Fleetwood but felt he truly dictated the midfield and dont think we've got anyone else who can do that... It annoys the hell out of me as really hoped a Shinnie / Gilbey double act on either flank of the diamond could do that but the latter isnt producing now - Whether its because we dont have a quick enough player to make the run beyond the defence (his assist for Doughty @ Crewe) I really dont know

ForeverAddickted said:

For those bemoaning Bowyers choice of playing players out of position... Going forward can they provide actual analysis ahead of games as to how the opposition play, what their strengths and weaknesses are and then how we should line up?

Play players in position is probably the most armchair comment I can ever read!!

Bowyer has already said that he played Matthews on the left today because whenever Wilks has played this season, thats the flank he's gone down, he did it last season too which is why Oshilaja was played Left-Back and was why I knew that Matthews would play out there, its basic stuff!! - Of course that didnt happen yesterday because Hull themselves arent going to just sit back and let us do what we want (Do these armchair fans realise that the opposition come with their own game plan?), now I know the response straight away will be: "So why didnt Bowyer change it up the moment that was obvious"... But my response is, why should we have to adapt to the opposition, apart from one frustrating deflection they werent better than us yesterday and had it not been for Bogle's air kick we'd have gone in at 1-1, but of course thats Bowyer's fault too isnt it!!

Seriously armchair fans always make me think of the Battle of Austerlitz... The Austrians and Russians put together a plan to beat the French and put that plan into action... The French absolutely annihalated them because not once did the opposition Generals think that Napoleon would do his own thing and stuck to their plan throughout - People on here say; play Williams, play Maddison blah blah blah, but dont think for a second as to what will happen if the opposition suss those two out from the start and make them as effective as a feather!!

Second Half, Bowyer has changed it up and its benefited us a bit more, until one of his players has had the attitute of a five year old getting himself sent off which has pretty much ended the game

Then to make things even more laughable there have been complaints on here asking why Bowyer hasnt been calling out the more senior players, why do the likes of Pratley and Watson get away with mistakes all the time when its Williams that gets called out in the post match press conference - Yesterday; Bowyer calls out Pratley for the stupid red card and is now called out on here for slagging off more players!! 

redlanered said:

Blucher said:

That is the sort of team selection and performance that gets managers the sack.

This.  Unless we respond well next Friday I think Lee is toast.  It's also the kind of team selection that loses the dressing room (unless Oshilaja & Maddison are unpopular among their teammates)

Oggy Red said:

With the players we've got, of course we should beat Accrington.

But right now Accrington are playing together as a team. 
They are set up well, organised and looking up for it.

Which is more than our hapless, unbalanced, creative players on the bench, side are doing. 

Talal said:

Covered End said:

ForeverAddickted, I'm wondering if there is any tactical switch you would say is not right.
I think I'm right in saying you approve of Pratley CM at CH, Matthews RB at LB, Maatsen LB at RM, Gilbey CM at LM, JFC LM at RM, Pearce LCH in middle of 3, Pratley RCH or middle at LCH.
I think this were about all of the players out of position at some point yesterday, so only 7.

If Schwarz signs and is on the wing is that ok?
What about midfield would that be ok?
How about anywhere in the defence?
Is there any position that Bowyer could play someone out of position that you would disagree with?

I'm genuinely interested, not on a wind up.

You forgot Morgan CM at LM. 

stoneroses19 said:

Covered End said:

stoneroses19 said:

J BLOCK said:

A loss against Accrington and the heat is seriously on Bowyer

Bowyer is on a lose-lose situation with a few people on here for Friday.

Lose and it’ll be ranting and get rid.
Draw and it’ll probably be slightly similar. 

Win and it’ll be “well we should be beating teams like Accrington”,

So are you saying Charlton shouldn't be beating teams like Accrington, who struggled to get 1,000 supporters in L2 recently? 

Blimey some think we should be established in the Premier League and others think we should think ourselves fortunate if we can beat Accrington (who are they) Stanley.

I’m saying that as of this season, we don’t have the right to say we should be beating them. We’re in the same league as them THIS year. Part of the excitement outside the PL is that anyone can beat anyone each week. 

Talal said:

Has anyone seen Watson do a "full sprint"?