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Post Match Thread: Charlton Athletic v Rochdale | Tues 12 January 2021

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  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    SoundAsa£ said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    SoundAsa£ said:
    blackpool72 said:
    Bowyer has no idea of his best team or his best formation. 
    Making it up as he goes along. 
    Shocking 
    He does have an idea of his best team......unfortunately a lot of it is in the treatment room......or has that point escaped you?
    I thought managers were paid to manage when there were injuries?
    Erm.....if the players you are left with aren’t as good/reliable as those injured you can hardly expect anything else.
    Or are you looking for miracles?
    No they aren't as good but they aren't total rubbish either.  If he was being forced to play Mingi, Barker, Dempsey, Vennings and Henry that may carry some weight.

    At worst JFC, Morgan, Gilbey Oshilaja and Pearce are average league 1 players.  Average league 1 teams don't concede 2 goals every game. 

    Not one single player is "playing well for them" in the way Purrington was 2 years ago.  That can't be down to anyone apart from the manager can't it? 
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,240
    RedChaser said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Braziliance said:
    That Baah kid is one to keep an eye on, seems he has a knack for scoring a wonder goal with his right foot 



    Only 17 as well, imagine he will have plenty of interest

    For those of you that didn't see my remarks at HT on the match thread, Baah was in the Palace academy from 2013-2017, released and then was under the successful Kinetic foundation in London from 2017-2019, where Joe Aribo spent time after having various trials at many academies. Joe left the foundation to join Staines before joining CAFC. Joe turned up as a CB at the foundation, before being converted into a mid fielder.
    Josh Maja the Lewisham born lad who left Sunderland for France and Norrington-Davies who was transferred to Stoke yesterday from Sheffield United via a loan at Luton were other Kinetic foundation boys.

    Got to speak about all the talent that was picked up by kinetic when released by academies by the manager of Whyteleafe (8th tier team) who is the part time Manager but full time boss of the foundation.

    He told me(back in November) that Rochdale had a great talent in Baah and expected him to prove it.
    21 year old Norrington-Davies spent a season on loan at Rochdale. 

    Baah showing his talent against cafc wasn't what I wanted to see ! A hefty challenge by anyone early doors would've been my advice but what do I know     !

    He played 1 match for Whyteleafe before Rochdale picked him up at Just 16 but I was at the valley so never saw him play.

    As Whyteleafe may not survive as no games since  playing on November 5th ( the season may be cancelled) I may never find out why Rochdale ?
    How many more times, Sam your number one priority when you are out and about scouting is to report back to the club key inside information like that you had on the lad Baah. So for that reason I am placing last night's draw firmly at your door! 😉

    I do blame myself Red !
    I wish I wasn't ITK. Why would Steve Avory or Steve Gallen listen to me, a big headed bloke with a soapbox. I was going to recommend Ryan Gondal a 23 year old forward with attitude and a mate of Ademola Lookman at Waterloo ( Ademola played a year above) I saw him score 9 goals of sublime skill for Whyteleafe this Season (Played 5 games for Colchester in 2018) and coincidentally when the football shut down on November 5th, Ryan had a trial at Rochdale but he didn't get offered a contract, so joined Hampton + Richmond in the National League South on loan so he could carry on playing in the top six elite leagues.

    There was a reason why I asked the question of Vetokele, Wiggins, Taylor and JFC (Bromley) who else in your 16 year old age group academy made it as a pro in the top 4 leagues. 

    None was the answer but they knew players one year above or below. Taylor at Millwall, Wiggins at Palace, Jake at Brighton and Igor at Gent.

    There is talent out there but they may have been rejected numerous times. That's why a strong  mentality should dovetail with talent. 

    Some kids can't handle the constant  rejection. 
  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,386
    OldRed51 said:
    JFC was outstanding all over the park. Morgan put in serious nine yards. Millar pace and trickery a bonus and Scwartz goal sublime.
    9 yards doesn't even get Morgan out of our goal box.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,793
    Oggy Red said:
    Carter said:
    It will make a huge difference when Shinnie, Inniss and Famewo are back but that is going to be too late for this season now I think 
    More than half the season left to play, not too late at all.
    Plenty of teams win promotion with late runs.

    In fact, it was our own late run that got us promoted 2 seasons ago.


    This is the reason for my position with Bowyer. We still have an opportunity to save the season. I can't understand how a perceived loyalty to him is more important than Charlton having a shot at promotion. I believe, sadly, that currently he is an obstacle to us achieving this
  • stoneroses19
    stoneroses19 Posts: 7,284
    ross1 said:

    Can’t stop watching this goal. Great pressure from Gunter, quick feet and release from Williams, smart pass from Aneke and quality finish from Schwartz. 

    That’s the kind of quick attacking football we need to continue with. 
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,090
    1968CAFC said:
    Covered End said:
    Bowyer out
    Bowyer in
    Bowyer out
    Bowyer in
        Thank God our new owner is not as bloody
        Stupid as Some of our so called fans.
        LB needs at least 10 more games and our injuries    
        Back on the pitch before anyone should even 
        Think about sacking him.
        It’s not Rocket science to see why we are leaking
        Goals, as we have our best two defenders
        Bloody Missing 😂😂😂😂
    I think you'll find last night was also to do with playing wee little Smith as a right wing back, when he couldn't tackle a paper bag, whilst leaving Matthews on the bench.
    (Having felt Matthews was so essential that last week he played him left back).
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,501
    edited January 2021
    SoundAsa£ said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    SoundAsa£ said:
    blackpool72 said:
    Bowyer has no idea of his best team or his best formation. 
    Making it up as he goes along. 
    Shocking 
    He does have an idea of his best team......unfortunately a lot of it is in the treatment room......or has that point escaped you?
    I thought managers were paid to manage when there were injuries?
    Erm.....if the players you are left with aren’t as good/reliable as those injured you can hardly expect anything else.
    Or are you looking for miracles?
    I don't expect the team to fall apart defensively after a couple of injuries - we're in L1 playing teams with pretty limited squads. If you think our recent defensive displays are the best we could have managed with the players available then you obviously have very low expectations.

    Having a manager who can set the team up in defence is not looking for miracles at this level. Trotting out the excuse that we can't defend because Innis and Famewo are injured isn't acceptable.


  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,793
    Covered End said:
    1968CAFC said:
    Covered End said:
    Bowyer out
    Bowyer in
    Bowyer out
    Bowyer in
        Thank God our new owner is not as bloody
        Stupid as Some of our so called fans.
        LB needs at least 10 more games and our injuries    
        Back on the pitch before anyone should even 
        Think about sacking him.
        It’s not Rocket science to see why we are leaking
        Goals, as we have our best two defenders
        Bloody Missing 😂😂😂😂
    I think you'll find last night was also to do with playing wee little Smith as a right wing back, when he couldn't tackle a paper bag, whilst leaving Matthews on the bench.
    (Having felt Matthews was so essential that last week he played him left back).
    That wasn't stupid....... it was er........maybe 1968CAFC could explain what that was about to us stupid so called fans.

    I'll tell you what a lot of these so call fans have, that is a loyalty to Charlton Athletic above a loyalty to one man.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,090
    It was bleeding obvious Smith at RWB was ridiculous, as it was with all the others, too many to remember.
    But off the top of my head, Matthews at LB, Maatsen on RW, Pratley at CH .............

     
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,818
    soapboxsam said:
    Braziliance said:
    That Baah kid is one to keep an eye on, seems he has a knack for scoring a wonder goal with his right foot 



    Only 17 as well, imagine he will have plenty of interest

    For those of you that didn't see my remarks at HT on the match thread, Baah was in the Palace academy from 2013-2017, released and then was under the successful Kinetic foundation in London from 2017-2019, where Joe Aribo spent time after having various trials at many academies. Joe left the foundation to join Staines before joining CAFC. Joe turned up as a CB at the foundation, before being converted into a mid fielder.
    Josh Maja the Lewisham born lad who left Sunderland for France and Norrington-Davies who was transferred to Stoke yesterday from Sheffield United via a loan at Luton were other Kinetic foundation boys.

    Got to speak about all the talent that was picked up by kinetic when released by academies by the manager of Whyteleafe (8th tier team) who is the part time Manager but full time boss of the foundation.

    He told me(back in November) that Rochdale had a great talent in Baah and expected him to prove it.
    21 year old Norrington-Davies spent a season on loan at Rochdale. 

    Baah showing his talent against cafc wasn't what I wanted to see ! A hefty challenge by anyone early doors would've been my advice but what do I know !

    He played 1 match for Whyteleafe before Rochdale picked him up at Just 16 but I was at the valley so never saw him play.

    As Whyteleafe may not survive as no games since  playing on November 5th ( the season may be cancelled) I may never find out why Rochdale ?
    As someone said last night, we should offer Rochdale something they could not refuse & buy him now. His wage doesn't count towards the cap either.

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  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,793
    He is being closely monitored by Bundesliga and Championship clubs apparently.
  • foresthillred
    foresthillred Posts: 1,436
    cafcfan1990 said:
    foresthillred said:
    covered_end_junior said:
    I think it buys Bowyer some time for now at least. The shape first half was all wrong, Deji looked uncomfortable on the left side of a back three and was far too high up the pitch at certain points. That along with a couple of other players pushing too high up left us very open at the back. Smyth at right wing back was just crazy as well.

    Much better second half though once we seemed to go back to basics. Aneke was superb, Millar was impressive as well and got us up the pitch and Ronnie took his goal very well. 

    Fingers crossed we can stop the chopping and changing of players and formations now and find a settled side. 


    It was Gunter on the left side of the back three. Oshilaja was central and, as far as I could see, played really well. Their first goal came from Pearce chasing their CF too far up the pitch and leaving us even more out of shape than we were with that line-up!
    Eh? No chance, Deji was definitely on the left and Gunter on the right. That choice was bad enough even without Smyth at RWB. 
    Yep. Spot on both of you. I was looking at it from the perspective of all their goals coming from the left as they attacked and thought Deji was being blamed for them getting in behind us. Smyth the wrong choice at RWB, but not helped by Gunter in that first half hour as he seems to be unsure of what to do if he isn't at right back. Right centre back also limits his opportunities to overlap down the wing and get quality crosses in that lead to goals.
  • foresthillred
    foresthillred Posts: 1,436
    EveshamAddick said:
    Elthamaddick said:
    Rothko said:
    I’ve only seen their free kick once, but it goes in keepers side? Not having a go at Amos, but it seemed saveable 
    definitely should've done better, had a clear view of it
    I would be questioning why Amos is letting in all these goals, never having a save to make and yet conceding every week. He didn’t get anything (hand or foot) on any of their  4 goals last night.
    As a former keeper who played most Saturdays and Sundays behind a poorly organised midfield and defence, a lot of the goals come because the players in front don't do everything they can to limit the shooting opportunities of their opponents. Gilbey turned his back on the first instead of charging it down. Gunter didn't come out to close down Baah after he had skinned Smyth for the third, and Gunter turned sideways and shrank away from the ball for the third.
    If players are doing that every week and the keeper doesn't know which side of him the ball is going to be struck, then he will often get his position slightly wrong and be late trying to save the ball. He will be feeling very exposed compared to when we had Innis and Famewo in front of him, and that will affect his confidence and judgement.
    When a team is defending well in front of a keeper, he will know where to be to make a save. 
    Amos is still fairly confident at the moment though, as he is still coming for crosses and his ball handling is still spot on.
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,423
    Gunter has cost us so many times this season. Inexcusable for a player of his experience. Time to start Matthews.
  • Exiled_Addick
    Exiled_Addick Posts: 17,222
    Chunes said:
    Gunter has cost us so many times this season. Inexcusable for a player of his experience. Time to start Matthews.
    Inclined to agree. He’s certainly not been our biggest issue, but personally I don’t think he’s been great even at right back. 
  • TellyTubby
    TellyTubby Posts: 3,559
    foresthillred said:
    EveshamAddick said:
    Elthamaddick said:
    Rothko said:
    I’ve only seen their free kick once, but it goes in keepers side? Not having a go at Amos, but it seemed saveable 
    definitely should've done better, had a clear view of it
    I would be questioning why Amos is letting in all these goals, never having a save to make and yet conceding every week. He didn’t get anything (hand or foot) on any of their  4 goals last night.
    As a former keeper who played most Saturdays and Sundays behind a poorly organised midfield and defence, a lot of the goals come because the players in front don't do everything they can to limit the shooting opportunities of their opponents. Gilbey turned his back on the first instead of charging it down. Gunter didn't come out to close down Baah after he had skinned Smyth for the third, and Gunter turned sideways and shrank away from the ball for the third.
    If players are doing that every week and the keeper doesn't know which side of him the ball is going to be struck, then he will often get his position slightly wrong and be late trying to save the ball. He will be feeling very exposed compared to when we had Innis and Famewo in front of him, and that will affect his confidence and judgement.
    When a team is defending well in front of a keeper, he will know where to be to make a save. 
    Amos is still fairly confident at the moment though, as he is still coming for crosses and his ball handling is still spot on.
    Like you @foresthillred I too was always the last to be picked and put in goal and to this day, all the goals I conceded were down to errors by my defenders.


    😉
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,747
    SoundAsa£ said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    SoundAsa£ said:
    blackpool72 said:
    Bowyer has no idea of his best team or his best formation. 
    Making it up as he goes along. 
    Shocking 
    He does have an idea of his best team......unfortunately a lot of it is in the treatment room......or has that point escaped you?
    I thought managers were paid to manage when there were injuries?
    Erm.....if the players you are left with aren’t as good/reliable as those injured you can hardly expect anything else.
    Or are you looking for miracles?
    Looking for miracles no.
    Playing players in their best position yes.
    Playing Smyth at RWB  is the latest in a baffling series of playing players out of position. 
    Surely you can see this is not helping. 
  • DONVANVLIET
    DONVANVLIET Posts: 237
    Carter "It will make a huge difference when Shinnie, Inniss and Famewo are back but that is going to be too late for this season now I think"

    FYI Shinnie and Famweo, we are told, could be back this coming Tuesday for the Peterborough game.
  • RichmondSE10Exile
    RichmondSE10Exile Posts: 641
    I can’t wait for some of our real defenders to come back from injury. We were putting together what looked like a potentially great season when we had them.

    There are a lot of matches left to play and LB can still steer us to at least the Top 6. 
  • thickandthin63
    thickandthin63 Posts: 2,972
    Being now the top scorers in the division,(we started the season wondering where goals would come from)with plenty more to come,if we can just tighten up at the back,no reason to not be hopeful,25 games to go,plenty of time.

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  • stoneroses19
    stoneroses19 Posts: 7,284
    Chunes said:
    Gunter has cost us so many times this season. Inexcusable for a player of his experience. Time to start Matthews.
    On the other hand, he won the ball back for Schwartz’s goal and I think was the assist for one of the other goals. 
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,423
    stoneroses19 said:
    Chunes said:
    Gunter has cost us so many times this season. Inexcusable for a player of his experience. Time to start Matthews.
    On the other hand, he won the ball back for Schwartz’s goal and I think was the assist for one of the other goals. 
    Doesn't make up for continual errors
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,890
    edited January 2021
    stoneroses19 said:
    Chunes said:
    Gunter has cost us so many times this season. Inexcusable for a player of his experience. Time to start Matthews.
    On the other hand, he won the ball back for Schwartz’s goal and I think was the assist for one of the other goals. 
    Our third which Chuks got his nut on the end of a delicious cross.
  • stoneroses19
    stoneroses19 Posts: 7,284
    Chunes said:
    stoneroses19 said:
    Chunes said:
    Gunter has cost us so many times this season. Inexcusable for a player of his experience. Time to start Matthews.
    On the other hand, he won the ball back for Schwartz’s goal and I think was the assist for one of the other goals. 
    Doesn't make up for continual errors
    Okay, he also scored in the Plymouth game. 

    You can’t just pick up on continual errors without mentioning the continual positives too. They both count towards the way he’s performing.  
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    I definitely think Matthews is worth a go at RB. Weekend he will have the chance anyway because Gunter will be playing CB. Don't think Gunter has been particularly good over the last 6 weeks, although not alone with that. He was playing out of position on Tuesday but I thought being a RB playing RCB he would come across and protect Smyth but he didn't. Their third in particular was really poor defending. 
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,423
    edited January 2021
    stoneroses19 said:
    Chunes said:
    stoneroses19 said:
    Chunes said:
    Gunter has cost us so many times this season. Inexcusable for a player of his experience. Time to start Matthews.
    On the other hand, he won the ball back for Schwartz’s goal and I think was the assist for one of the other goals. 
    Doesn't make up for continual errors
    Okay, he also scored in the Plymouth game. 

    You can’t just pick up on continual errors without mentioning the continual positives too. They both count towards the way he’s performing.  
    We're the top scorers in the league - our biggest problem is a leaky defense. I'd rather have a right-back who contributed less going forward but didn't play a continual part in us conceeding soft goals.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,793
    Gunter has been decent when played as a conventional left back. I think Matthews gets forward well but his final ball is not as good as Gunter's.

    As for Amos, I had the discussion with my son, who is more than a decent keeper. He thought I was being harsh on him for the goals.
  • Simonsen
    Simonsen Posts: 5,513
    edited January 2021
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Gunter has been decent when played as a conventional left back. I think Matthews gets forward well but his final ball is not as good as Gunter's.

    As for Amos, I had the discussion with my son, who is more than a decent keeper. He thought I was being harsh on him for the goals.
    Matthews is a good player but hasn't offered much at all in the final third this season or last. A lot of his crosses seem a bit weak and get cut out. Gunter just seems to have a bit of extra quality IF he gets forward (which he didn't v Stanley). Matthews is a decent defender and when on form, he's a neat footballer. 
  • mendonca
    mendonca Posts: 9,435
    Full backs game can go to pot when their CBs are pretty dire and the holding midfielders just want to sit rather than cover. 

    A settled defence should see the return to form. But at least he's contributing still and not hiding. 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 70,038
    It's interesting how some players get rotated all the time, whereas the likes of Pratley, Gunter, Watson and Maatsen  never seem be deliberately rested. The 30 somethings and the 18 year old play all the time, it's the 20 somethings who apparently need protecting!

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