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Savings and Investments thread
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With Hargreaves Lansdown. Saw all the different options (geographies / sectors / bonds / shares / mix etc) but my wife was put off by the risk factor on the majority of them, to be fair the risk was fairly high on their little scorecard for areas you would think of as being safer.0
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Personally if you are going to be paying in monthly or on a regular basis (which would be the best thing) I really wouldn't worry and you have 18 years! You can always adjust as you go and start going safer in the last few years..Mike said:With Hargreaves Lansdown. Saw all the different options (geographies / sectors / bonds / shares / mix etc) but my wife was put off by the risk factor on the majority of them, to be fair the risk was fairly high on their little scorecard for areas you would think of as being safer.
Just remember if you buy a fund today at £2 a unit, but in 3 months time they have halved, your next purchase you're getting double the number of units! Thats why I prefer where possible to do regular monthly investments equally through the year.2 -
Best bet is to seek the advice of a financial advisor. They will assess your attitude to risk, time horizon & capacity for loss. It might cost a small fee to set it up but then you have accountability if it all goes wrong.Mike said:We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
Aside from that - you have 2 options. Pick a managed fund that invests in a mixture of equities & bonds or select a range of individual funds that cover all the bases.
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Might be because its a "savings & investments" thread and not a "legal & tax" one.meldrew66 said:Mike said:We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
Careful asking for ‘free advice’ - Largeaddick doesn’t like people doing that on a Savings and Investments thread!😭Mike said:We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.0 -
Jog on palLargeAddick said:
Can’t see where my opinions were insensitive. And my opinion is see a Solicitor.meldrew66 said:
Sorry, I’ll check with you before posting anything in future. I can’t find the ‘rules’ on what should or shouldn’t be discussed on this thread. How about you skip over these posts if they are an annoyance to you and, aside from that, keep your insensitive opinions to yourself. Glad you find it interesting though. Keep searching for something less interesting, eh!?LargeAddick said:as interesting as this is, not, it has really taken over a thread that in my opinion it should not be being discussed on but more importantly it’s obvious that you need to see a Solicitor but are not doing so because either a) you think those on Charlton Life more knowledgeable or b) you expect free advice.0 -
👍golfaddick said:
Might be because its a "savings & investments" thread and not a "legal & tax" one.meldrew66 said:Mike said:We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
Careful asking for ‘free advice’ - Largeaddick doesn’t like people doing that on a Savings and Investments thread!😭Mike said:We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.0 -
"I can't go into a shop and buy things with a bag of gold - therefore it is worthless" I'd be interested to hear what the banking sector's carbon footprint is, especially when it comes to moving and storing stores of value such as gold.Huskaris said:
Very interesting, thanks for posting that.PragueAddick said:This is very good - Henry Mance in the FT always is. Hope everyone has heard the story he starts with. It's bona fide, the guy did an interview on the BBC last week...
Help! Anyone remember my bitcoin password?
Let me explain my reaction to the news that a San Francisco-based programmer has around $220m in bitcoin, but cannot remember the password. According to the New York Times, Stefan Thomas has only two more guesses to access the keys to a digital wallet that contains his fortune. Otherwise he loses the lot. I think there was a brief moment when I found it hilarious. Then I found it too painful to think about. Now I have reached a state of acceptance. This is the kind of Sliding Doors moment that we all fear — what if we never met our partner, what if we took that plane, what (in my case) if I had slipped jumping from a ledge into a rock pool. Life could have been so different. Accidents do happen, especially to bitcoin investors. An estimated 20 per cent of the digital currency is stranded — owned, for example, by people who can’t remember how to access it. I thought these guys were against the right to be forgotten?
A Financial Times colleague wisely wrote down the passphrase to his bitcoin, now worth a few thousand pounds. Sadly he wrote it down wrong. As long as he doesn’t write things down wrong in the FT, he’ll be fine. But other forgetful bitcoiners will bang their heads against their Tesla prospectuses, because the dollar value of their currency has more than tripled in the past year. A Welsh IT worker claims he binned a laptop with £230m of bitcoin, and has spent eight years asking the council for permission to search its landfill. There are serious implications for bitcoin, which wants to be a store of value, but is clearly overemphasising the storing part. Remember that it is the most environmentally damaging currency imaginable, with a carbon footprint bigger than Sri Lanka, because of the computing power required to create each token. If Silicon Valley wanted to pollute the world while creating nothing of usable value, it should have copied Northern Ireland’s cash-for-ash scheme. There are broader lessons for digital evangelists. Internet libertarians envisage that people will flourish when the regulatory guardrails are thrown off and inefficient humans are replaced by automated systems. But what if humans are quite useful? Walk in beaten and empty-handed to a bank branch, and the tellers will find a way to reconnect you with your overdraft. Whereas, even if you could identify bitcoin’s mysterious founder Satoshi Nakamoto, he couldn’t help you access your digital wallet. For a species that forgets things, that is suboptimal.
The other lesson is about genius. Silicon Valley loves a genius, often identified by how early they invested in X or what employee number they were in Y. But maybe the people who invested early in Facebook weren’t geniuses — they were just lucky. Maybe the people who become viral stars are not the funniest or the best singers. Password-amnesiac Mr Thomas was given his 7,002 bitcoin for making a video — a task millions of people could have done. He could be worth as much as Ed Sheeran or become the internet’s version of the Fifth Beatle. But it wouldn’t say much about his ability or contribution to society. “If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss . . . ,” wrote Rudyard Kipling. No one can really follow that advice. No one can treat triumph and disaster the same, even though luck often decides which we end up with. All we can do is have compassion for those people who never made their fortune, who never fell in love, who fell ill. Four years of Donald Trump has surely taught America that wealth does not correlate with moral status. If bitcoin teaches Silicon Valley the importance of luck, then maybe it will have created real value after all.
Whilst not wanting this thread to turn into a crypto thread, that was incredibly interesting to read.
Having the carbon footprint of Sri Lanka is unbelievable, and disgraceful... A mate who is now obsessed by crypto, and who I would very kindly describe as being void of braincells, sent me a video of someone who had put all of the processors inside a radiator frame, so the bitcoin miner was basically being used as a radiator for their home!
In his case, he got into crypto because he bought too much bitcoin when buying an ounce of cannabis, and saw the value rocket.
Almost everyone I have seen get into crypto has absolutely no finance intelligence or background, which is probably why they have invented their own language (like a cult, your point which I completely agree with).
It is a market where people basically follow the crowd. Once it starts falling, it is going to massively tumble, and then when it rises, as we have seen, it will rocket.
Any "currency" that goes up or down at the rate it does, will never be able to be a practical currency in reality. Everyone who "holds" bitcoin becomes a huge speculator, and that is not appealing.
I get worried enough where I work about our FX exposure risk which could swing our profitability by 3-4%. Crypto could swing it by hundreds of percent.
Drugs, guns, and speculation, not a credible currency.0 -
My problem (read lack of knowledge/understanding) is I just cannot fathom why it goes up and why it goes down. If I could understand that I might dive back in with more than a few hundred. Other 'currencies' I don't profess to be an expert but whether FX, Gold, Shares etc I can generally understand.0
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supply and demand. More buyers than sellers. Price is made to go up as every 3 years or so there's a "halving" where the rewards for mining it get cut in half so it becomes more valuable - bull runs like the one we're in tend to be kicked off by this happening. There will also only ever be 23 million (i think?) complete bitcoin ever in existence. It's designed to go up in value and get more scarce.Rob7Lee said:My problem (read lack of knowledge/understanding) is I just cannot fathom why it goes up and why it goes down. If I could understand that I might dive back in with more than a few hundred. Other 'currencies' I don't profess to be an expert but whether FX, Gold, Shares etc I can generally understand.0 - Sponsored links:
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OK, so we are back on crypto. :-)
One of several slightly fuzzy things about crypto is that -according to the disciples - only bitcoin is touted as a crypto *currency*. Ethereum is touted as a possible alternative currency when they are feeling bullish. I had to buy ethereum in order to buy Vechain tokens. But the rest, such as Vechain, and Zil (sorry, I just think of the Soviet limo every time) these are "tokens" by which you buy into...and that's where it gets even fuzzier. Apparently a Vechain token gives me some ill-defined stake in a Thing, apparently some kind of programme by which a company can use the blockchain to monitor on a grand scale, e.g every single piece of stuff that went into all its cars in all its factories - something which if true, I could see to have enormous commercial value, and cut out industrial-scale theft. It's just that I have never seen anything more than vague allusions to mega companies using it, and these allusions confined to pro-crypto media. Which is kinda, weird. That's why it makes me think of the ADBD website, the "investment fund" which claimed all kinds of blue chip companies as "Clients/partners" yet not a snippet of info about what it actually did with or for these companies. And as we all now, that's because the whole thing was a fairy-tale. I really hope that I am proven very wrong to compare ADBD to Vechain, Zil, Nipple, Berk and all the rest...
By the way, I tried, I really did. Way back in 2018 my nephew bought me a book "Cryptoassets" - Burniske&Tatar, which I read in full. It started off quite promisingly, but as it went on, it just went on and and on about how to trade the things. Nothing of any substance about what the things actually represent. Which is exactly how the thread reads to me. Oh well, people do what they wish with their own money...0 -
.... That's er.... Not what was being said.kentaddick said:
"I can't go into a shop and buy things with a bag of gold - therefore it is worthless" I'd be interested to hear what the banking sector's carbon footprint is, especially when it comes to moving and storing stores of value such as gold.Huskaris said:
Very interesting, thanks for posting that.PragueAddick said:This is very good - Henry Mance in the FT always is. Hope everyone has heard the story he starts with. It's bona fide, the guy did an interview on the BBC last week...
Help! Anyone remember my bitcoin password?
Let me explain my reaction to the news that a San Francisco-based programmer has around $220m in bitcoin, but cannot remember the password. According to the New York Times, Stefan Thomas has only two more guesses to access the keys to a digital wallet that contains his fortune. Otherwise he loses the lot. I think there was a brief moment when I found it hilarious. Then I found it too painful to think about. Now I have reached a state of acceptance. This is the kind of Sliding Doors moment that we all fear — what if we never met our partner, what if we took that plane, what (in my case) if I had slipped jumping from a ledge into a rock pool. Life could have been so different. Accidents do happen, especially to bitcoin investors. An estimated 20 per cent of the digital currency is stranded — owned, for example, by people who can’t remember how to access it. I thought these guys were against the right to be forgotten?
A Financial Times colleague wisely wrote down the passphrase to his bitcoin, now worth a few thousand pounds. Sadly he wrote it down wrong. As long as he doesn’t write things down wrong in the FT, he’ll be fine. But other forgetful bitcoiners will bang their heads against their Tesla prospectuses, because the dollar value of their currency has more than tripled in the past year. A Welsh IT worker claims he binned a laptop with £230m of bitcoin, and has spent eight years asking the council for permission to search its landfill. There are serious implications for bitcoin, which wants to be a store of value, but is clearly overemphasising the storing part. Remember that it is the most environmentally damaging currency imaginable, with a carbon footprint bigger than Sri Lanka, because of the computing power required to create each token. If Silicon Valley wanted to pollute the world while creating nothing of usable value, it should have copied Northern Ireland’s cash-for-ash scheme. There are broader lessons for digital evangelists. Internet libertarians envisage that people will flourish when the regulatory guardrails are thrown off and inefficient humans are replaced by automated systems. But what if humans are quite useful? Walk in beaten and empty-handed to a bank branch, and the tellers will find a way to reconnect you with your overdraft. Whereas, even if you could identify bitcoin’s mysterious founder Satoshi Nakamoto, he couldn’t help you access your digital wallet. For a species that forgets things, that is suboptimal.
The other lesson is about genius. Silicon Valley loves a genius, often identified by how early they invested in X or what employee number they were in Y. But maybe the people who invested early in Facebook weren’t geniuses — they were just lucky. Maybe the people who become viral stars are not the funniest or the best singers. Password-amnesiac Mr Thomas was given his 7,002 bitcoin for making a video — a task millions of people could have done. He could be worth as much as Ed Sheeran or become the internet’s version of the Fifth Beatle. But it wouldn’t say much about his ability or contribution to society. “If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss . . . ,” wrote Rudyard Kipling. No one can really follow that advice. No one can treat triumph and disaster the same, even though luck often decides which we end up with. All we can do is have compassion for those people who never made their fortune, who never fell in love, who fell ill. Four years of Donald Trump has surely taught America that wealth does not correlate with moral status. If bitcoin teaches Silicon Valley the importance of luck, then maybe it will have created real value after all.
Whilst not wanting this thread to turn into a crypto thread, that was incredibly interesting to read.
Having the carbon footprint of Sri Lanka is unbelievable, and disgraceful... A mate who is now obsessed by crypto, and who I would very kindly describe as being void of braincells, sent me a video of someone who had put all of the processors inside a radiator frame, so the bitcoin miner was basically being used as a radiator for their home!
In his case, he got into crypto because he bought too much bitcoin when buying an ounce of cannabis, and saw the value rocket.
Almost everyone I have seen get into crypto has absolutely no finance intelligence or background, which is probably why they have invented their own language (like a cult, your point which I completely agree with).
It is a market where people basically follow the crowd. Once it starts falling, it is going to massively tumble, and then when it rises, as we have seen, it will rocket.
Any "currency" that goes up or down at the rate it does, will never be able to be a practical currency in reality. Everyone who "holds" bitcoin becomes a huge speculator, and that is not appealing.
I get worried enough where I work about our FX exposure risk which could swing our profitability by 3-4%. Crypto could swing it by hundreds of percent.
Drugs, guns, and speculation, not a credible currency.
I'm not trying to be rude but I really think you should spend less time worrying about old boring people like us think. I think most of us just "won't get it"...
There's a thread for cryptos by the way, you should check it out
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Nice swerve of my question re the carbon footprint of banks and of moving and storing stores of value such as gold. How much money and carbon gets wasted on that? Are you gonna tell me not to buy tesla stocks because it creates cars and cars = bad for the planet?Huskaris said:
.... That's er.... Not what was being said.kentaddick said:
"I can't go into a shop and buy things with a bag of gold - therefore it is worthless" I'd be interested to hear what the banking sector's carbon footprint is, especially when it comes to moving and storing stores of value such as gold.Huskaris said:
Very interesting, thanks for posting that.PragueAddick said:This is very good - Henry Mance in the FT always is. Hope everyone has heard the story he starts with. It's bona fide, the guy did an interview on the BBC last week...
Help! Anyone remember my bitcoin password?
Let me explain my reaction to the news that a San Francisco-based programmer has around $220m in bitcoin, but cannot remember the password. According to the New York Times, Stefan Thomas has only two more guesses to access the keys to a digital wallet that contains his fortune. Otherwise he loses the lot. I think there was a brief moment when I found it hilarious. Then I found it too painful to think about. Now I have reached a state of acceptance. This is the kind of Sliding Doors moment that we all fear — what if we never met our partner, what if we took that plane, what (in my case) if I had slipped jumping from a ledge into a rock pool. Life could have been so different. Accidents do happen, especially to bitcoin investors. An estimated 20 per cent of the digital currency is stranded — owned, for example, by people who can’t remember how to access it. I thought these guys were against the right to be forgotten?
A Financial Times colleague wisely wrote down the passphrase to his bitcoin, now worth a few thousand pounds. Sadly he wrote it down wrong. As long as he doesn’t write things down wrong in the FT, he’ll be fine. But other forgetful bitcoiners will bang their heads against their Tesla prospectuses, because the dollar value of their currency has more than tripled in the past year. A Welsh IT worker claims he binned a laptop with £230m of bitcoin, and has spent eight years asking the council for permission to search its landfill. There are serious implications for bitcoin, which wants to be a store of value, but is clearly overemphasising the storing part. Remember that it is the most environmentally damaging currency imaginable, with a carbon footprint bigger than Sri Lanka, because of the computing power required to create each token. If Silicon Valley wanted to pollute the world while creating nothing of usable value, it should have copied Northern Ireland’s cash-for-ash scheme. There are broader lessons for digital evangelists. Internet libertarians envisage that people will flourish when the regulatory guardrails are thrown off and inefficient humans are replaced by automated systems. But what if humans are quite useful? Walk in beaten and empty-handed to a bank branch, and the tellers will find a way to reconnect you with your overdraft. Whereas, even if you could identify bitcoin’s mysterious founder Satoshi Nakamoto, he couldn’t help you access your digital wallet. For a species that forgets things, that is suboptimal.
The other lesson is about genius. Silicon Valley loves a genius, often identified by how early they invested in X or what employee number they were in Y. But maybe the people who invested early in Facebook weren’t geniuses — they were just lucky. Maybe the people who become viral stars are not the funniest or the best singers. Password-amnesiac Mr Thomas was given his 7,002 bitcoin for making a video — a task millions of people could have done. He could be worth as much as Ed Sheeran or become the internet’s version of the Fifth Beatle. But it wouldn’t say much about his ability or contribution to society. “If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss . . . ,” wrote Rudyard Kipling. No one can really follow that advice. No one can treat triumph and disaster the same, even though luck often decides which we end up with. All we can do is have compassion for those people who never made their fortune, who never fell in love, who fell ill. Four years of Donald Trump has surely taught America that wealth does not correlate with moral status. If bitcoin teaches Silicon Valley the importance of luck, then maybe it will have created real value after all.
Whilst not wanting this thread to turn into a crypto thread, that was incredibly interesting to read.
Having the carbon footprint of Sri Lanka is unbelievable, and disgraceful... A mate who is now obsessed by crypto, and who I would very kindly describe as being void of braincells, sent me a video of someone who had put all of the processors inside a radiator frame, so the bitcoin miner was basically being used as a radiator for their home!
In his case, he got into crypto because he bought too much bitcoin when buying an ounce of cannabis, and saw the value rocket.
Almost everyone I have seen get into crypto has absolutely no finance intelligence or background, which is probably why they have invented their own language (like a cult, your point which I completely agree with).
It is a market where people basically follow the crowd. Once it starts falling, it is going to massively tumble, and then when it rises, as we have seen, it will rocket.
Any "currency" that goes up or down at the rate it does, will never be able to be a practical currency in reality. Everyone who "holds" bitcoin becomes a huge speculator, and that is not appealing.
I get worried enough where I work about our FX exposure risk which could swing our profitability by 3-4%. Crypto could swing it by hundreds of percent.
Drugs, guns, and speculation, not a credible currency.
I'm not trying to be rude but I really think you should spend less time worrying about old boring people like us think. I think most of us just "won't get it"...
There's a thread for cryptos by the way, you should check it out
I literally got tagged in this thread about this subject and now I'm asked why i'm talking about it in this thread?
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I found this helped.................PragueAddick said:OK, so we are back on crypto. :-)
One of several slightly fuzzy things about crypto is that -according to the disciples - only bitcoin is touted as a crypto *currency*. Ethereum is touted as a possible alternative currency when they are feeling bullish. I had to buy ethereum in order to buy Vechain tokens. But the rest, such as Vechain, and Zil (sorry, I just think of the Soviet limo every time) these are "tokens" by which you buy into...and that's where it gets even fuzzier. Apparently a Vechain token gives me some ill-defined stake in a Thing, apparently some kind of programme by which a company can use the blockchain to monitor on a grand scale, e.g every single piece of stuff that went into all its cars in all its factories - something which if true, I could see to have enormous commercial value, and cut out industrial-scale theft. It's just that I have never seen anything more than vague allusions to mega companies using it, and these allusions confined to pro-crypto media. Which is kinda, weird. That's why it makes me think of the ADBD website, the "investment fund" which claimed all kinds of blue chip companies as "Clients/partners" yet not a snippet of info about what it actually did with or for these companies. And as we all now, that's because the whole thing was a fairy-tale. I really hope that I am proven very wrong to compare ADBD to Vechain, Zil, Nipple, Berk and all the rest...
By the way, I tried, I really did. Way back in 2018 my nephew bought me a book "Cryptoassets" - Burniske&Tatar, which I read in full. It started off quite promisingly, but as it went on, it just went on and and on about how to trade the things. Nothing of any substance about what the things actually represent. Which is exactly how the thread reads to me. Oh well, people do what they wish with their own money...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDyQEUZ0PlY&feature=emb_title 0 -
I don't really respond to whatabboutery to be honest, find it a bit... Swerving the point.kentaddick said:
Nice swerve of my question re the carbon footprint of banks and of moving and storing stores of value such as gold. How much money and carbon gets wasted on that? Are you gonna tell me not to buy tesla stocks because it creates cars and cars = bad for the planet?Huskaris said:
.... That's er.... Not what was being said.kentaddick said:
"I can't go into a shop and buy things with a bag of gold - therefore it is worthless" I'd be interested to hear what the banking sector's carbon footprint is, especially when it comes to moving and storing stores of value such as gold.Huskaris said:
Very interesting, thanks for posting that.PragueAddick said:This is very good - Henry Mance in the FT always is. Hope everyone has heard the story he starts with. It's bona fide, the guy did an interview on the BBC last week...
Help! Anyone remember my bitcoin password?
Let me explain my reaction to the news that a San Francisco-based programmer has around $220m in bitcoin, but cannot remember the password. According to the New York Times, Stefan Thomas has only two more guesses to access the keys to a digital wallet that contains his fortune. Otherwise he loses the lot. I think there was a brief moment when I found it hilarious. Then I found it too painful to think about. Now I have reached a state of acceptance. This is the kind of Sliding Doors moment that we all fear — what if we never met our partner, what if we took that plane, what (in my case) if I had slipped jumping from a ledge into a rock pool. Life could have been so different. Accidents do happen, especially to bitcoin investors. An estimated 20 per cent of the digital currency is stranded — owned, for example, by people who can’t remember how to access it. I thought these guys were against the right to be forgotten?
A Financial Times colleague wisely wrote down the passphrase to his bitcoin, now worth a few thousand pounds. Sadly he wrote it down wrong. As long as he doesn’t write things down wrong in the FT, he’ll be fine. But other forgetful bitcoiners will bang their heads against their Tesla prospectuses, because the dollar value of their currency has more than tripled in the past year. A Welsh IT worker claims he binned a laptop with £230m of bitcoin, and has spent eight years asking the council for permission to search its landfill. There are serious implications for bitcoin, which wants to be a store of value, but is clearly overemphasising the storing part. Remember that it is the most environmentally damaging currency imaginable, with a carbon footprint bigger than Sri Lanka, because of the computing power required to create each token. If Silicon Valley wanted to pollute the world while creating nothing of usable value, it should have copied Northern Ireland’s cash-for-ash scheme. There are broader lessons for digital evangelists. Internet libertarians envisage that people will flourish when the regulatory guardrails are thrown off and inefficient humans are replaced by automated systems. But what if humans are quite useful? Walk in beaten and empty-handed to a bank branch, and the tellers will find a way to reconnect you with your overdraft. Whereas, even if you could identify bitcoin’s mysterious founder Satoshi Nakamoto, he couldn’t help you access your digital wallet. For a species that forgets things, that is suboptimal.
The other lesson is about genius. Silicon Valley loves a genius, often identified by how early they invested in X or what employee number they were in Y. But maybe the people who invested early in Facebook weren’t geniuses — they were just lucky. Maybe the people who become viral stars are not the funniest or the best singers. Password-amnesiac Mr Thomas was given his 7,002 bitcoin for making a video — a task millions of people could have done. He could be worth as much as Ed Sheeran or become the internet’s version of the Fifth Beatle. But it wouldn’t say much about his ability or contribution to society. “If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss . . . ,” wrote Rudyard Kipling. No one can really follow that advice. No one can treat triumph and disaster the same, even though luck often decides which we end up with. All we can do is have compassion for those people who never made their fortune, who never fell in love, who fell ill. Four years of Donald Trump has surely taught America that wealth does not correlate with moral status. If bitcoin teaches Silicon Valley the importance of luck, then maybe it will have created real value after all.
Whilst not wanting this thread to turn into a crypto thread, that was incredibly interesting to read.
Having the carbon footprint of Sri Lanka is unbelievable, and disgraceful... A mate who is now obsessed by crypto, and who I would very kindly describe as being void of braincells, sent me a video of someone who had put all of the processors inside a radiator frame, so the bitcoin miner was basically being used as a radiator for their home!
In his case, he got into crypto because he bought too much bitcoin when buying an ounce of cannabis, and saw the value rocket.
Almost everyone I have seen get into crypto has absolutely no finance intelligence or background, which is probably why they have invented their own language (like a cult, your point which I completely agree with).
It is a market where people basically follow the crowd. Once it starts falling, it is going to massively tumble, and then when it rises, as we have seen, it will rocket.
Any "currency" that goes up or down at the rate it does, will never be able to be a practical currency in reality. Everyone who "holds" bitcoin becomes a huge speculator, and that is not appealing.
I get worried enough where I work about our FX exposure risk which could swing our profitability by 3-4%. Crypto could swing it by hundreds of percent.
Drugs, guns, and speculation, not a credible currency.
I'm not trying to be rude but I really think you should spend less time worrying about old boring people like us think. I think most of us just "won't get it"...
There's a thread for cryptos by the way, you should check it out
I literally got tagged in this thread about this subject and now I'm asked why i'm talking about it in this thread?
I was only saying why I don't believe it can be a currency, it is nothing to do with the fact that I can't hold it, I know that means nothing for the relevancy of a currency, I never really have coins and notes in my hand. My point was about fluctuations in the currency, which are astronomical. If it was a currency being used in a real nation, people would use the dollar instead on the black market.
But you swerved that.
Anyway, you are actually one of my more preferred posters on this forum, believe it or not, so I would rather not get into an argument with you...0 -
Crypto chat should go onto the crypto thread imo. Any chat about politics gets shut down & told to go on the House of Commoners ones so no reason why this can't do so too.8
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I don't agree. Crypto is being touted as an investment. @kentaddick is the only one of the crypto people ready to come on here and at least make a stab at defending it as an investment. I rather wish some of the others on that thread who are also on here sometimes, would give him a hand.golfaddick said:Crypto chat should go onto the crypto thread imo. Any chat about politics gets shut down & told to go on the House of Commoners ones so no reason why this can't do so too.1 -
I agree with Golfie, crypto is also an investment of sort, but quite a different one with its own lexicon and everything, and as it has its own thread I feel any questions should be directed over there. If it didn't have it's own thread I could understand it being discussed here, but it does.0
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Well, I tried to ask the same questions on that thread as people would here about various other investment types, but they blanked me, and I concluded it's a cult, not a serious investment thread. Crypto lures in a lot of younger people who invest relatively far more of their total savings than is wise, IMO, and I thought this thread was about helping people make wise decisions. I don't think it should be ignored - if it all goes pop, it will blow back on the rest of us, just like in 2008 when institutions we broadly trust persuaded the world that sub-prime mortgages were OK, and so were the devices they used to mix up sub -prime with sensible mortgages all round the world. Who on here knew what a Credit Default Swap was, before the whole thing crashed on us?LonelyNorthernAddick said:I agree with Golfie, crypto is also an investment of sort, but quite a different one with its own lexicon and everything, and as it has its own thread I feel any questions should be directed over there. If it didn't have it's own thread I could understand it being discussed here, but it does.
But whatever, if no one else wants to talk about it, there's no point in me flogging a dead horse.1 -
"bitcoin isn't an investment"
What have you bought that have outperformed bitcoin if you bought it January 2010 vs buying bitcoin in January 2010?
Answer: There isn't anything.0 - Sponsored links:
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Metals, metals, metals, the brave new world is going to need Zinc, Copper, Lithium, Graphite, Cobalt etc...... although the WS oil price has been going up demand in 2021 still looks below forecasts (FT Today) so be wary of O&G outfits, raw materials are in great demand, don’t want to upset Golfie but IMHO ARB still has a big upside, as a share not as a Crypto 😜
I know what my 2021-22 ISA is going to look like already, but as ever nothing’s guaranteed, need the FTSE & AIM to keep moving upwards.0 -
As an IFA, regulated by the FCA, I would love to discuss this with my clients, and as part of the advice process I need to supply them with a prospectus, a key facts document & an illustration showing costs, charges & likely returns. Please can you point me to a website or company that supply these.kentaddick said:"bitcoin isn't an investment"
What have you bought that have outperformed bitcoin if you bought it January 2010 vs buying bitcoin in January 2010?
Answer: There isn't anything.
Many thanks5 -
With the greatest respect you could probably look back at any asset class at their low point and take it to their high point and find that they have outperformed any other asset class over that period.kentaddick said:"bitcoin isn't an investment"
What have you bought that have outperformed bitcoin if you bought it January 2010 vs buying bitcoin in January 2010?
Answer: There isn't anything.
This is why you should diversify.0 -
As an aside, found out that my bank doesn’t anymore allow transfers in or out of Bitcoin type currency exchanges (if that’s the right word).0
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The thing is Prague...You are asking questions which have all been answered in the past, while at the same time saying it's a cult, not really an investment, etc etc. Which let's be honest is because you don't understand it. You've said there is no point in you flogging a dead horse. That is exactly how I feel as well...I'm not going to spend my time trying to educate someone who is asking questions on one thread and shitting on the same thing in another.PragueAddick said:
I don't agree. Crypto is being touted as an investment. @kentaddick is the only one of the crypto people ready to come on here and at least make a stab at defending it as an investment. I rather wish some of the others on that thread who are also on here sometimes, would give him a hand.golfaddick said:Crypto chat should go onto the crypto thread imo. Any chat about politics gets shut down & told to go on the House of Commoners ones so no reason why this can't do so too.2 -
their understanding also only runs to 2017, when everything was being marketed as "the next bitcoin". 4 years later and the crypto space is different, real world applications of blockchain, DAPPs running on ethereum and other networks and seemingly a big blind spot for what's currently attracting institutional investment and is going to be the hot ticket this year - Defi (lets also not forget Ethereum 2.0). It's fast moving, but this is what makes it so exciting and profitable. Are we also forgetting the world's richest man is one of bitcoin's loudest advocates? (he's joked that his mars colonies' economies will run using a cryptocurrency). I believe, as i did back in 2017, that eventually most things on the internet will be run using blockchain.cafcpolo said:
The thing is Prague...You are asking questions which have all been answered in the past, while at the same time saying it's a cult, not really an investment, etc etc. Which let's be honest is because you don't understand it. You've said there is no point in you flogging a dead horse. That is exactly how I feel as well...I'm not going to spend my time trying to educate someone who is asking questions on one thread and shitting on the same thing in another.PragueAddick said:
I don't agree. Crypto is being touted as an investment. @kentaddick is the only one of the crypto people ready to come on here and at least make a stab at defending it as an investment. I rather wish some of the others on that thread who are also on here sometimes, would give him a hand.golfaddick said:Crypto chat should go onto the crypto thread imo. Any chat about politics gets shut down & told to go on the House of Commoners ones so no reason why this can't do so too.0 -
The only thing to return more then Crypto in terms of investments for me, is buying in at IPO on each Social Capital SPAC, otherwise nothing has come close to the returns I've made on Chainlink, and the potential returns I'm going to make on Cardano.1
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Sorry, that’s a misrepresentation of what I posted and when.I answered Kent’s one sentence reply on the crypto thread, saying it didnt seem to help address my questions and waited something like a week to see if someone else would have a go. Nothing. So i posted on here about it. Funny how I can ask on CL about anything from Blue Badges to Internet line speed, and so can anyone else, and lots of people reply helpfully , but crypto, nah. Not if you don’t show you Believe first.cafcpolo said:
The thing is Prague...You are asking questions which have all been answered in the past, while at the same time saying it's a cult, not really an investment, etc etc. Which let's be honest is because you don't understand it. You've said there is no point in you flogging a dead horse. That is exactly how I feel as well...I'm not going to spend my time trying to educate someone who is asking questions on one thread and shitting on the same thing in another.PragueAddick said:
I don't agree. Crypto is being touted as an investment. @kentaddick is the only one of the crypto people ready to come on here and at least make a stab at defending it as an investment. I rather wish some of the others on that thread who are also on here sometimes, would give him a hand.golfaddick said:Crypto chat should go onto the crypto thread imo. Any chat about politics gets shut down & told to go on the House of Commoners ones so no reason why this can't do so too.
Where have my questions been answered.? On the thread? In a serious medium? Well certainly not the FT, to name one highly sceptical finance oriented outlet. In the book my nephew gave me? How many people “shitting” on crypto have bothered to read a book advocating it?
People on here have explained why they have invested in gold, and in art. I think possibly also wine. Their explanations were perfectly understandable, even if not necessarily convincing to all readers as investments, because not all investments suit everyone. I’m afraid your post just reinforces my impression that something isnt quite pukka about crypto, but if thats what you do with your money, good luck, , and I’m sorry that I disturbed you with such impertinent and thick questions.1 -
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i think one person (might have been you) posted an article from the FT that claimed more bitcoins can be created like fiat currency can - which goes to show you the extremely shallow understanding the author has on the subject. Didn't read past that, utter tosh.PragueAddick said:
Sorry, that’s a misrepresentation of what I posted and when.I answered Kent’s one sentence reply on the crypto thread, saying it didnt seem to help address my questions and waited something like a week to see if someone else would have a go. Nothing. So i posted on here about it. Funny how I can ask on CL about anything from Blue Badges to Internet line speed, and so can anyone else, and lots of people reply helpfully , but crypto, nah. Not if you don’t show you Believe first.cafcpolo said:
The thing is Prague...You are asking questions which have all been answered in the past, while at the same time saying it's a cult, not really an investment, etc etc. Which let's be honest is because you don't understand it. You've said there is no point in you flogging a dead horse. That is exactly how I feel as well...I'm not going to spend my time trying to educate someone who is asking questions on one thread and shitting on the same thing in another.PragueAddick said:
I don't agree. Crypto is being touted as an investment. @kentaddick is the only one of the crypto people ready to come on here and at least make a stab at defending it as an investment. I rather wish some of the others on that thread who are also on here sometimes, would give him a hand.golfaddick said:Crypto chat should go onto the crypto thread imo. Any chat about politics gets shut down & told to go on the House of Commoners ones so no reason why this can't do so too.
Where have my questions been answered.? On the thread? In a serious medium? Well certainly not the FT, to name one highly sceptical finance oriented outlet. In the book my nephew gave me? How many people “shitting” on crypto have bothered to read a book advocating it?
People on here have explained why they have invested in gold, and in art. I think possibly also wine. Their explanations were perfectly understandable, even if not necessarily convincing to all readers as investments, because not all investments suit everyone. I’m afraid your post just reinforces my impression that something isnt quite pukka about crypto, but if thats what you do with your money, good luck, , and I’m sorry that I disturbed you with such impertinent and thick questions.0
