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Savings and Investments thread

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  • Gasman
    Gasman Posts: 92
    Im looking to invest some savings i have. 20k before i blow on a car that i dont need. Its burning a hole in my pocket if honest and would rather see it tied up to good use. I need a IFA. Please inbox me if anybody looking for a new customer. Some reason i trust CL more than internet searching. Cheers ken
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,615
    @golfaddick

    FORE
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,143
    golfaddick said:
    balham red said:
    FTSE is falling like a stone. Anyone want to give me some hope it might recover soonish?
    It will right itself quite soon. In a few months time you'll wonder what the worry was all about. Earlier this afternoon it was back down to pre-xmas levels.......and so by Easter it will back up to 6850 again. Swings & roundabouts but I'm expecting it to be going upwards more than downwards. 
    Or look at it in terms of the Thread Index predictor. The close of play index was at 6460. Now it's at 6407, a decline of.. err..0.8%. My forecast for the new predictor which ends 30 June is 7110, which would be 11% on where we are now, but only 4.5% on where it was a week or so ago. I don't think I'd change my forecast right now. It's just Covid driven volatility IMO. 
  • Indianaaddick
    Indianaaddick Posts: 2,965
    Short traders lost 8 bn thats Billion in GameStop today over 20 bn since Monday bend down and back up slow till you hit GameStop traders lol.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,624
    Gasman said:
    Im looking to invest some savings i have. 20k before i blow on a car that i dont need. Its burning a hole in my pocket if honest and would rather see it tied up to good use. I need a IFA. Please inbox me if anybody looking for a new customer. Some reason i trust CL more than internet searching. Cheers ken.
    Just PM'd you  
  • Gasman
    Gasman Posts: 92
    golfaddick said:
    Gasman said:
    Im looking to invest some savings i have. 20k before i blow on a car that i dont need. Its burning a hole in my pocket if honest and would rather see it tied up to good use. I need a IFA. Please inbox me if anybody looking for a new customer. Some reason i trust CL more than internet searching. Cheers ken.
    Just PM'd you  
    Great stuff.
  • Addickted4life
    Addickted4life Posts: 7,467
    Really enjoying seeing these wall street hedge funds going to wall.

    The irony of them asking for more regulation is gold.  

  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,145
    What would be the make up of these hedge funds ?
    Who will be losing all this money ?
  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,145
    Just googled and saw this 

    “ A hedge fund raises its capital from a variety of sources, including high net worth individuals, corporations, foundations, endowments, and pension funds.” 

    so potentially people’s pensions will be fucked, greeeeeeeat ffs 
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,846
    Tempted to take a short position on GameStop on Monday. They are a fundamentally overvalued company now. 

    I think they will tumble some time soon. 
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  • CAFCsayer
    CAFCsayer Posts: 10,223
    edited January 2021
    Huskaris said:
    Tempted to take a short position on GameStop on Monday. They are a fundamentally overvalued company now. 

    I think they will tumble some time soon. 
    Agree in principal, but you're not dealing with normal markets here. Firstly, we are not talking about rational traders, and secondly, the squeeze hasn't really kicked in yet. There are still a lot of funds short out there, who will need to buy the shares back if they decide they want to cut their losses - this will drive the share price even higher
  • mendonca
    mendonca Posts: 9,405
    There are definitely some dark arts at play in the US. Looking at the timing and possible brains behind this. These things are rarely dreamt up on message boards, but they would have been used go coordinate communication.
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,846
    CAFCsayer said:
    Huskaris said:
    Tempted to take a short position on GameStop on Monday. They are a fundamentally overvalued company now. 

    I think they will tumble some time soon. 
    Agree in principal, but you're not dealing with normal markets here. Firstly, we are not talking about rational traders, and secondly, the squeeze hasn't really kicked in yet. There are still a lot of funds short out there, who will need to buy the shares back if they decide they want to cut their losses - this will drive the share price even higher
    I completely agree with you, I suppose the case is how long I can hold on. 

    Hard to short as a retail investor so has to be through a spread bet or CFD. 

    Fundamentally, this reminds me of something where the asset has a value that has no resemblance to the price, being jumped on by people for emotional reasons, either a hate of wall Street, a love of a gaming store, or greed of riding a wave. 

    None of those are long term reasons to hold a stock. 

    Sell sell sell! 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,624
    Huskaris said:
    CAFCsayer said:
    Huskaris said:
    Tempted to take a short position on GameStop on Monday. They are a fundamentally overvalued company now. 

    I think they will tumble some time soon. 
    Agree in principal, but you're not dealing with normal markets here. Firstly, we are not talking about rational traders, and secondly, the squeeze hasn't really kicked in yet. There are still a lot of funds short out there, who will need to buy the shares back if they decide they want to cut their losses - this will drive the share price even higher
    I completely agree with you, I suppose the case is how long I can hold on. 

    Hard to short as a retail investor so has to be through a spread bet or CFD. 

    Fundamentally, this reminds me of something where the asset has a value that has no resemblance to the price, being jumped on by people for emotional reasons, either a hate of wall Street, a love of a gaming store, or greed of riding a wave. 

    None of those are long term reasons to hold a stock. 

    Sell sell sell! 
    This in a nutshell. Some people will make shed loads of money over this & some will make a tidy sum.......but quite a few who have been sucked in over the past week or two will lose tens of thousands when the price slumps back to its true value.
  • CAFCsayer
    CAFCsayer Posts: 10,223
    golfaddick said:
    Huskaris said:
    CAFCsayer said:
    Huskaris said:
    Tempted to take a short position on GameStop on Monday. They are a fundamentally overvalued company now. 

    I think they will tumble some time soon. 
    Agree in principal, but you're not dealing with normal markets here. Firstly, we are not talking about rational traders, and secondly, the squeeze hasn't really kicked in yet. There are still a lot of funds short out there, who will need to buy the shares back if they decide they want to cut their losses - this will drive the share price even higher
    I completely agree with you, I suppose the case is how long I can hold on. 

    Hard to short as a retail investor so has to be through a spread bet or CFD. 

    Fundamentally, this reminds me of something where the asset has a value that has no resemblance to the price, being jumped on by people for emotional reasons, either a hate of wall Street, a love of a gaming store, or greed of riding a wave. 

    None of those are long term reasons to hold a stock. 

    Sell sell sell! 
    This in a nutshell. Some people will make shed loads of money over this & some will make a tidy sum.......but quite a few who have been sucked in over the past week or two will lose tens of thousands when the price slumps back to its true value.
    I think it'll go up further yet, but a lot of the newcomers are going to be left holding the baby when it all goes tits up 
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,846
    CAFCsayer said:
    golfaddick said:
    Huskaris said:
    CAFCsayer said:
    Huskaris said:
    Tempted to take a short position on GameStop on Monday. They are a fundamentally overvalued company now. 

    I think they will tumble some time soon. 
    Agree in principal, but you're not dealing with normal markets here. Firstly, we are not talking about rational traders, and secondly, the squeeze hasn't really kicked in yet. There are still a lot of funds short out there, who will need to buy the shares back if they decide they want to cut their losses - this will drive the share price even higher
    I completely agree with you, I suppose the case is how long I can hold on. 

    Hard to short as a retail investor so has to be through a spread bet or CFD. 

    Fundamentally, this reminds me of something where the asset has a value that has no resemblance to the price, being jumped on by people for emotional reasons, either a hate of wall Street, a love of a gaming store, or greed of riding a wave. 

    None of those are long term reasons to hold a stock. 

    Sell sell sell! 
    This in a nutshell. Some people will make shed loads of money over this & some will make a tidy sum.......but quite a few who have been sucked in over the past week or two will lose tens of thousands when the price slumps back to its true value.
    I think it'll go up further yet, but a lot of the newcomers are going to be left holding the baby when it all goes tits up 
    I agree with you, but the thing is that if you short the stock today, I think that even though you might have paper losses for a while, that stock is only going one way... 
  • stevexreeve
    stevexreeve Posts: 1,386
    Did any hedge funds think of this? 

    Is it possible that if you start shorting a group of investors fuelled by social media might call your bluff?
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,143
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Just googled and saw this 

    “ A hedge fund raises its capital from a variety of sources, including high net worth individuals, corporations, foundations, endowments, and pension funds.” 

    so potentially people’s pensions will be fucked, greeeeeeeat ffs
    Yes. An adult on BBC World Service this morning was explaining that the hedge funds are reacting by selling their shares in normal stocks that they would not otherwise sell, in order to cover themselves. That is why Apple was down 5% on record breaking figures. Many pension funds will hold Apple.

    I'm not taking sides on this either way at this stage. There is a lot to play out yet. The same adult pointed out that there are three players in this, the hedgies, the Reddit -driven retail investors, and then the platforms. 


  • No.1 in South London
    No.1 in South London Posts: 3,960
    edited January 2021
    Scaremongering at it's very best to bring pensions into the argument........ Short selling would not be allowed with peoples pension funds..... there are many different types of hedge funds and they all behave differently. The ones getting a kicking are in it for themselves and their "investors" but that wouldn't include pension money and they are very careful with what they say in the media. The argument is that because they (the hedge funds short selling) have to sell other assets (including equities) to cover their losses, they are bringing down the value of equities..... the opposite argument is true when they investing their gains in equities, but no one cried for the shafted companies or shareholders when the short sellers succeeded??...... pension funds are not losing cash per se..... just they are affected by the downturn in markets which is true for any downturn.
    If pension funds lose value in the short term, it is the fault of the parasite hedge funds who didn't manage their risk (unlimited when you short sell at such outrageous levels) and not the retail players who saw legitimate value in buying the shares in GME to cause the squeeze. 
  • IdleHans
    IdleHans Posts: 10,961
    No.1 in South London said:
    Scaremongering at it's very best to bring pensions into the argument........ Short selling would not be allowed with peoples pension funds..... there are many different types of hedge funds and they all behave differently. The ones getting a kicking are in it for themselves and their "investors" but that wouldn't include pension money and they are very careful with what they say in the media. The argument is that because they (the hedge funds short selling) have to sell other assets (including equities) to cover their losses, they are bringing down the value of equities..... the opposite argument is true when they investing their gains in equities, but no one cried for the shafted companies or shareholders when the short sellers succeeded??...... pension funds are not losing cash per se..... just they are affected by the downturn in markets which is true for any downturn.
    If pension funds lose value in the short term, it is the fault of the parasite hedge funds who didn't manage their risk (unlimited when you short sell at such outrageous levels) and not the retail players who saw legitimate value in buying the shares in GME to cause the squeeze. 
    Sounds to me like a buying opportunity in normal equities looms.
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  • Suttonaddick
    Suttonaddick Posts: 24
    edited January 2021
    looking to open a global index tracker after reading various things. What is the best one to keep investing into each month without requiring much checking? I’ve seen various options with vanguard and HSBC.
  • WillmoreTheRed
    WillmoreTheRed Posts: 875
    Anyone else in on Nokia, I’m in big but not for any short squeeze or Reddit hype. I generally believe they are undervalued compared to the rest of the 5G market.
  • No.1 in South London
    No.1 in South London Posts: 3,960
    Huskaris said:
    Tempted to take a short position on GameStop on Monday. They are a fundamentally overvalued company now. 

    I think they will tumble some time soon. 
    The "some time soon" is the issue here for me, not the fact that they are an overvalued company...... if you are going to take out the short....... at what price for what period? it might be expensive given the current stalemate.
    Having seen a few of Ken Griffin's interviews, his nature appears to be to stand and fight and to eventually work out a solution that gets him out as cheap as possible, .... it may end up being a case of who blinks first.
    The shorts still being > 100%........and I do not think the retailers are letting go anytime soon as they know that fact and realise there is plenty more meat on the bone........ an interesting situation that will run for a little while longer is my guess.
    I am not in GME but do find the conundrum fascinating. In years gone by, I would have always thought that the Goliath would win, but in this particular age, I'm not so sure.
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,846
    PragueAddick said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Just googled and saw this 

    “ A hedge fund raises its capital from a variety of sources, including high net worth individuals, corporations, foundations, endowments, and pension funds.” 

    so potentially people’s pensions will be fucked, greeeeeeeat ffs
    Yes. An adult on BBC World Service this morning was explaining that the hedge funds are reacting by selling their shares in normal stocks that they would not otherwise sell, in order to cover themselves. That is why Apple was down 5% on record breaking figures. Many pension funds will hold Apple.

    I'm not taking sides on this either way at this stage. There is a lot to play out yet. The same adult pointed out that there are three players in this, the hedgies, the Reddit -driven retail investors, and then the platforms. 


    That is fascinating. Was the suggestion that this was part of the reason of the couple of % wiped off the stock markets in the past few days?
  • LTKapal
    LTKapal Posts: 1,312
    No.1 in South London said:
    Huskaris said:
    Tempted to take a short position on GameStop on Monday. They are a fundamentally overvalued company now. 

    I think they will tumble some time soon. 

    I am not in GME but do find the conundrum fascinating. In years gone by, I would have always thought that the Goliath would win, but in this particular age, I'm not so sure.
    I got told about  it super early so I am
    The thing is, I've made my money off it as have a lot of people, but the thing is at this point, after Thursday where Robinhood started selling people's shares when they were unable to buy specifically at the biggest dip and then had the audacity to say it was " for the customers own good" a lot of people are now going to hold more out of principle than anything else. 

    Yes it's going to drop like a stone at some point and people will get hurt but from the side of somebody who has been in the middle of this and have been having to keep a super close eye on it, general consensus is that people have mostly used disposable income and that they don't mind making losses of it drives for change. 
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,846
    edited January 2021
    LTKapal said:
    No.1 in South London said:
    Huskaris said:
    Tempted to take a short position on GameStop on Monday. They are a fundamentally overvalued company now. 

    I think they will tumble some time soon. 

    I am not in GME but do find the conundrum fascinating. In years gone by, I would have always thought that the Goliath would win, but in this particular age, I'm not so sure.
    I got told about  it super early so I am
    The thing is, I've made my money off it as have a lot of people, but the thing is at this point, after Thursday where Robinhood started selling people's shares when they were unable to buy specifically at the biggest dip and then had the audacity to say it was " for the customers own good" a lot of people are now going to hold more out of principle than anything else. 

    Yes it's going to drop like a stone at some point and people will get hurt but from the side of somebody who has been in the middle of this and have been having to keep a super close eye on it, general consensus is that people have mostly used disposable income and that they don't mind making losses of it drives for change. 
    Sadly I think people will get burned and claim that there should have been regulation from preventing them from making these mistakes.

    I have no doubt that a lot of people are using disposable income, I intend to do the same to bet against these kids, but many of them will end up paying for my beer with their rent money, and they will moan about it. 

    I also have next to no doubt that there are some big institutions piggybacking on this. No way could retail investors on Reddit make that much of a market movement imo. 

    Ironically, these people will end up being the victims of the very same institutions that they are complaining about. 

    If you were thinking about shorting Gamestop when it was at the price it was at a month ago, now, you would be a fool not to.

    I don't even like what I am saying above, but it is all correct. You can rage against the machine, but eventually, the machine will win. 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,624
    Suttonaddick said:
    looking to open a global index tracker after reading various things. What is the best one to keep investing into each month without requiring much checking? I’ve seen various options with vanguard and HSBC.
    See a financial adviser first.

    Why a global equity fund
    Why a tracker 
    Where is your diversification if Covid21 hits

    FWIW.......I don't rate either of your 2 suggestions. 
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,143
    Huskaris said:
    PragueAddick said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Just googled and saw this 

    “ A hedge fund raises its capital from a variety of sources, including high net worth individuals, corporations, foundations, endowments, and pension funds.” 

    so potentially people’s pensions will be fucked, greeeeeeeat ffs
    Yes. An adult on BBC World Service this morning was explaining that the hedge funds are reacting by selling their shares in normal stocks that they would not otherwise sell, in order to cover themselves. That is why Apple was down 5% on record breaking figures. Many pension funds will hold Apple.

    I'm not taking sides on this either way at this stage. There is a lot to play out yet. The same adult pointed out that there are three players in this, the hedgies, the Reddit -driven retail investors, and then the platforms. 


    That is fascinating. Was the suggestion that this was part of the reason of the couple of % wiped off the stock markets in the past few days?
    I didn't hear him go that far. Wish I could recall his name, he was talking a lot of sense. He wasn't seeking to defend hedge funds per se, either, just trying to point out that it's not as simple as the little guy sticking it to the Man, and that there could be a variety of unforeseen consequences.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    PragueAddick said:
    Huskaris said:
    PragueAddick said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Just googled and saw this 

    “ A hedge fund raises its capital from a variety of sources, including high net worth individuals, corporations, foundations, endowments, and pension funds.” 

    so potentially people’s pensions will be fucked, greeeeeeeat ffs
    Yes. An adult on BBC World Service this morning was explaining that the hedge funds are reacting by selling their shares in normal stocks that they would not otherwise sell, in order to cover themselves. That is why Apple was down 5% on record breaking figures. Many pension funds will hold Apple.

    I'm not taking sides on this either way at this stage. There is a lot to play out yet. The same adult pointed out that there are three players in this, the hedgies, the Reddit -driven retail investors, and then the platforms. 


    That is fascinating. Was the suggestion that this was part of the reason of the couple of % wiped off the stock markets in the past few days?
    I didn't hear him go that far. Wish I could recall his name, he was talking a lot of sense. He wasn't seeking to defend hedge funds per se, either, just trying to point out that it's not as simple as the little guy sticking it to the Man, and that there could be a variety of unforeseen consequences.
    So a hedge fund way overleverages itself attempting to manipulate a stock, gets caught out and yet it’s the retail investors fault? 
  • No.1 in South London
    No.1 in South London Posts: 3,960
    edited January 2021
    Any "unforeseen consequences" can be directly attributed to the hedge funds who didn't manage their risk, in fact they went out on a limb to take positions of unlimited risk and continue to do so. The only risk the retail investors took was to their "OWN" bank balance. There is absolutely zero responsibility that can be aimed or attributed to the "little guy" here.
     If you want to look for someone to blame if your assets take an unrealised "hit" (they will bounce back as usual) then you need to look no further than a Ken Griffin, a Steve Cohen or others of their ilk and also the people who "should" have been regulating them, but didn't.

    Here is what a psychologist said about his experience working with the ultra high net worth individuals "They have this feeling that rules don’t apply to them, although that mind-set is often the key to much of their success. If they’re told something can’t be done a certain way, they think that doesn’t apply to them and find a way around it. It can be viewed as elitist or having a sense of entitlement, but it’s also a highly effective strategy for innovative thinking. One reason is a lack of boundaries. They think the rules don’t apply to them. And you know what? They are right, the rules don’t. They get all this exclusive access to everything, because people are courting them for their money. The rules don’t apply even if the billionaire wants them to apply, and that makes it challenging to have boundaries. Professionals with very strict codes of conduct will loosen their own boundaries to work with these individuals and not get fired by them. It becomes hard for a billionaire to get objective feedback from others because of their status. 

    When the regulators who are being funded and paid by the people that they are supposed to be regulating, you can quite easily end up in a Game Stop situation. "unlimited risk" WTF??

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