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Electric Cars
Comments
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I can only see batteries getting more efficient with a faster charge time. If you get to around 10mins to add 200miles of range then that’s probably better than filling up with petrol. Think it may be more tricky to sort the logistics of swapping batteries around, but could be possible I suppose.0
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Honda bring out their electric car in June, 125 miles charge per tank, and a 33 grand price tag, not exactly cheap!
Has got no wing mirrors!1 -
I still don't understand why they're so expensive and 5k to replace batteries...Mendonca In Asdas said:Honda bring out their electric car in June, 125 miles charge per tank, and a 33 grand price tag, not exactly cheap!
Has got no wing mirrors!1 -
The only thing about this I’m certain of is that it will be completely bollocksed up just like everything else this country attempts to do.2
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My money is on that too sadly. I think there is an opportunity here. It is a new technology and this country has the opportunity to put itself at the head of it!ShootersHillGuru said:The only thing about this I’m certain of is that it will be completely bollocksed up just like everything else this country attempts to do.0 -
It's kind of a good idea in theory but the UK only commands 3% of the world market for new car sales, so when it comes to introducing standards that have a strong influence on the automotive industry we're not in a very good position. If only we were part of a group with a 23% share of the market I things might be the rather different.MuttleyCAFC said:I think the problem with electric cars, will be the demand for roadside chargers. Yes, people can charge at home, but not everybody (flats, no drive etc..., When you have to make a journey where do you charge and what will be the difference from a charging space and a parking space? To me, the solution has to be standard batteries that can be mechanically changed at the equivalent of petrol stations. By introducing the standard, a government could get ahead of the game and create an industry. Also, if cars could take 2 and in some cases 3 of these, you just instantly change one when it runs out and you still have the security of the other.
The only other sensible option would be Hydrogen IMO. I don't think it would look good having the number of chargers needed everywhere and there will always be a delay from charging to being ready to go.5 -
I agree, but we can introduce them for our country. Being an Island you could always have some sort of car swap system for people wanting to drive abroad. But hopefully, you set your sights on an outcome and make it the best outcome that others follow. We have the brains and engineering talent and this could turn us into a Germany economy wise.1
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MuttleyCAFC said:I agree, but we can introduce them for our country. Being an Island you could always have some sort of car swap system for people wanting to drive abroad. But hopefully, you set your sights on an outcome and make it the best outcome that others follow. We have the brains and engineering talent and this could turn us into a Germany economy wise.The solutions for battery technology and charging systems will surface from Germany and Japan but we can contribute enormously with technical expertise and R&D.There is estimated to be enough spare Lithium in the world to manufacture sufficient batteries (assuming 90+% recycling) to power all the world's EV needs for around 200 years. Other battery technologies will replace Lithium long before then - I would imaging in the next 30 years.Personal transport in large towns and cities will also diminish dramatically.
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Hmm. Setting targets is an absolute piece of p*ss, I do it all the time.
Terry Pratchett said "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by..."1 -
Hydrogen may be the VHS equivalent to the charging betamax also. It is hard to produce, but it does have advantages over batteries. Again it would need government investment and risk for a possible future return. At the moment it is difficult/expensive to extract it, but this can be improved.
I think charging and battery disposal and production are the weaknesses of electric cars and why there is an opportunity there.1 - Sponsored links:
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Very interesting watch. If you ever wanted some more evidence to convince you of why we need to give up petrol / diesel vehicles and change to a cleaner electric vehicle approach, then take 10 minutes out of your day and watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oVrIHcdxjA 1 -
Where is the infrastructure? Where is the fast charging for me to charge my car in 5 minutes like putting petrol/diesel in, so I don't have to add 2 hours to my long journey? Where is the ability for people to charge their vehicles at home if they don't have a drive next to their house? How can I afford an electric car when they're so expensive? Will I be able to buy a second hand electric car for £5000 in 10 years without the batteries being absolutely knackered?
These are the questions that still aren't being answered. Yes, it works fine for people travelling short distances to the office and back, who can afford the cars and can charge at home. Not everyone has that need or ability.4 -
Part of the video refers to some of those challenges, i.e apartment living, and the need to lobby for infrastructure to suit these situations.Ross said:Where is the infrastructure? Where is the fast charging for me to charge my car in 5 minutes like putting petrol/diesel in, so I don't have to add 2 hours to my long journey? Where is the ability for people to charge their vehicles at home if they don't have a drive next to their house? How can I afford an electric car when they're so expensive? Will I be able to buy a second hand electric car for £5000 in 10 years without the batteries being absolutely knackered?
These are the questions that still aren't being answered. Yes, it works fine for people travelling short distances to the office and back, who can afford the cars and can charge at home. Not everyone has that need or ability.
And while there are clearly infrastructure issues, the vehicle range and charging speeds are dramatically improving which will help those situations too, e.g. KIA are launching their EV6, range of 316 miles and which, with the appropriate public charge point (no idea how many yet), can give you 100km of driving range with 4.5 minutes charging, and it takes less than 18 minutes to charge from 10% to 80%.
Granted it wont suit everyone, the initial cost is an obvious barrier too I agree, and the question mark about how long batteries will last, and cost to replace etc, but for me, it's hard to see that it's not the way that things need to go, and that the infrastructure needs to be vastly improved to make it possible for wider take up, such as the Norway example in the vid.
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Given the points you highlight, this isn't an area where I feel a strong urge to be an early adopter. Solve some of these issues, plus the addition of a far wider range of a choice of electric models and I will adopt like a shot.Ross said:Where is the infrastructure? Where is the fast charging for me to charge my car in 5 minutes like putting petrol/diesel in, so I don't have to add 2 hours to my long journey? Where is the ability for people to charge their vehicles at home if they don't have a drive next to their house? How can I afford an electric car when they're so expensive? Will I be able to buy a second hand electric car for £5000 in 10 years without the batteries being absolutely knackered?
These are the questions that still aren't being answered. Yes, it works fine for people travelling short distances to the office and back, who can afford the cars and can charge at home. Not everyone has that need or ability.0 -
Fair points. Petrol stations are in and out in 5 minutes though, so they will need to greatly increase the number of charging points everywhere to stop backlogs of traffic.verycoolguy said:
Part of the video refers to some of those challenges, i.e apartment living, and the need to lobby for infrastructure to suit these situations.Ross said:Where is the infrastructure? Where is the fast charging for me to charge my car in 5 minutes like putting petrol/diesel in, so I don't have to add 2 hours to my long journey? Where is the ability for people to charge their vehicles at home if they don't have a drive next to their house? How can I afford an electric car when they're so expensive? Will I be able to buy a second hand electric car for £5000 in 10 years without the batteries being absolutely knackered?
These are the questions that still aren't being answered. Yes, it works fine for people travelling short distances to the office and back, who can afford the cars and can charge at home. Not everyone has that need or ability.
And while there are clearly infrastructure issues, the vehicle range and charging speeds are dramatically improving which will help those situations too, e.g. KIA are launching their EV6, range of 316 miles and which, with the appropriate public charge point (no idea how many yet), can give you 100km of driving range with 4.5 minutes charging, and it takes less than 18 minutes to charge from 10% to 80%.
Granted it wont suit everyone, the initial cost is an obvious barrier too I agree, and the question mark about how long batteries will last, and cost to replace etc, but for me, it's hard to see that it's not the way that things need to go, and that the infrastructure needs to be vastly improved to make it possible for wider take up, such as the Norway example in the vid.
I personally feel that the 2030 deadline is way too soon for everyone to make the switch, which is why I find it absurd that hybrids won't be included in the roadmap from 2030 onwards, as these are already a lot cleaner than ICE, but without the infrastructure issues, and will ease the pain of switching for most.1 -
We have got an all electric Nissan Leaf but are looking to change to a plug in hybrid.It is fine for day to day use when my wife uses it to commute to work but felt really restricted when we went on holiday to Devon last summer. Service stations en route only having two charging points so having to queue up to use them. No charging points on or near holiday park so I was having to drive 5 miles to a Morrison’s before breakfast to charge up if we were gonna be driving any distance that day etc. Just find it a bit restricted on anything other than short trips.2
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What is the cost for using a charging point in a petrol station to fully charge the battery?.0
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An interesting question. For example a Tesla S has a 85kWh battery pack weighing 540kg and consisting of 7,104 cells. You'd need, maybe 35,000 AA batteries to get that sort of capacity!hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I still don't understand why they're so expensive and 5k to replace batteries...Mendonca In Asdas said:Honda bring out their electric car in June, 125 miles charge per tank, and a 33 grand price tag, not exactly cheap!
Has got no wing mirrors!
A pack of eight of the very best rechargeable AA batteries (Panasonic Eneloop) would cost you about £18. So the batteries needed to run your car would cost around £80k. And they'd only last for 2,000 charges.
(There is a long-in-the-tooth Tesla X in the States that has done over 400,000 miles. It had a battery pack replacement at 300,000 - under warranty - but not because of degradation of the pack but another problem.)
So, maybe they are not so expensive after all.0 -
We would usually top up from around 20% battery remaining and at the rapid chargers in service stations/ supermarkets would cost about £7.50 to fully charge car up.Dansk_Red said:What is the cost for using a charging point in a petrol station to fully charge the battery?.That gives our car (Nissan Leaf) 160 miles but is reduced with use of air con but then you can also recover some power by using the e-pedal which harvests energy when breaking which adds a few miles over each charge.0 -
I'm actually currently looking to buy a new/nearly new car, I haven't decided whether to stick with an ICE or take the plunge to electric/plug in.
I'm a little concerned that if I stick with a diesel/petrol, that if I want to sell it again in c. 4/5 years it's value may depreciate more than is standard due to less demand out there, with peoples focus turning more and more to electric, which could be driven by increased diesel taxes and incentives for EV's etc.
Is this a fair consideration or should the demand still be really strong for used diesels/petrol cars?0 - Sponsored links:
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This is one of the big issues. If you go on a long journey, especially in winter, with the heating and heated seats on, sat nav programmed, music playing, then your battery charge can drop a lot quicker, causing the need to stop and charge more often.MrOneLung said:
We would usually top up from around 20% battery remaining and at the rapid chargers in service stations/ supermarkets would cost about £7.50 to fully charge car up.Dansk_Red said:What is the cost for using a charging point in a petrol station to fully charge the battery?.That gives our car (Nissan Leaf) 160 miles but is reduced with use of air con but then you can also recover some power by using the e-pedal which harvests energy when breaking which adds a few miles over each charge.0 -
Surely this is part of the problem though. The reason the roads are clogged with more and more oversized SUVs is because people buy cars to fulfil that once every few years requirement, rather than the car that fulfils their day to day needs and then just hire a car for the rare occasions their daily driver isn't enough. It's a common theme both here and in the US that people say "well an electric hatch would be great for my commute, but once every 3 years I need to tow a trailer into the wilderness, so I'd best drive a giant truck or SUV everyday just in case"MrOneLung said:We have got an all electric Nissan Leaf but are looking to change to a plug in hybrid.It is fine for day to day use when my wife uses it to commute to work but felt really restricted when we went on holiday to Devon last summer. Service stations en route only having two charging points so having to queue up to use them. No charging points on or near holiday park so I was having to drive 5 miles to a Morrison’s before breakfast to charge up if we were gonna be driving any distance that day etc. Just find it a bit restricted on anything other than short trips.
If we want to get smaller, more efficient cars on the roads, and increase electric take-up then there needs to be some sort of discount scheme on car hire, e.g. buy a smaller electric car, get £X credit per year towards hiring something bigger.8 -
Looking at an VW ID3 or Kia e-niro as the realistic EV purchases in the next year or so1
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True but in usual circumstances we would travel down to Devon twice a year, plus various weekend trips to visit friends down in Hove , trips to the Kent coast where we can’t do the trip there and back on one charge. Don’t see point in having a car and then having to hire another car several times a year.randy andy said:
Surely this is part of the problem though. The reason the roads are clogged with more and more oversized SUVs is because people buy cars to fulfil that once every few years requirement, rather than the car that fulfils their day to day needs and then just hire a car for the rare occasions their daily driver isn't enough. It's a common theme both here and in the US that people say "well an electric hatch would be great for my commute, but once every 3 years I need to tow a trailer into the wilderness, so I'd best drive a giant truck or SUV everyday just in case"MrOneLung said:We have got an all electric Nissan Leaf but are looking to change to a plug in hybrid.It is fine for day to day use when my wife uses it to commute to work but felt really restricted when we went on holiday to Devon last summer. Service stations en route only having two charging points so having to queue up to use them. No charging points on or near holiday park so I was having to drive 5 miles to a Morrison’s before breakfast to charge up if we were gonna be driving any distance that day etc. Just find it a bit restricted on anything other than short trips.
If we want to get smaller, more efficient cars on the roads, and increase electric take-up then there needs to be some sort of discount scheme on car hire, e.g. buy a smaller electric car, get £X credit per year towards hiring something bigger.This is why we are looking at plug in hybrid. Can do 30 miles using electric which is more than enough for daily commuting but has back up of petroleum for the longer journeys.0 -
The range is what's put me off so far, but I think when I move house later this year I will get an electric as well. The ranges are getting better and better as I suspect will the infrastructure over time.
Luckily we have a scheme at work through a lease company where you pay via salary sacrifice so for me effectively almost half price. Can even get a Taycan from £500 a month!
I do like the look of the little Honda E for local trips, reminds me of a 70's mini clubman.
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Rob7Lee said:The range is what's put me off so far, but I think when I move house later this year I will get an electric as well. The ranges are getting better and better as I suspect will the infrastructure over time.
Luckily we have a scheme at work through a lease company where you pay via salary sacrifice so for me effectively almost half price. Can even get a Taycan from £500 a month!
I do like the look of the little Honda E for local trips, reminds me of a 70's mini clubman.
Taycan? Honda E?
Tough choice!3 -
When you consider the Honda is £300, the Taycan sub £600 it's pretty easy! Even the £130k Turbo is sub £900 a month.bobmunro said:Rob7Lee said:The range is what's put me off so far, but I think when I move house later this year I will get an electric as well. The ranges are getting better and better as I suspect will the infrastructure over time.
Luckily we have a scheme at work through a lease company where you pay via salary sacrifice so for me effectively almost half price. Can even get a Taycan from £500 a month!
I do like the look of the little Honda E for local trips, reminds me of a 70's mini clubman.
Taycan? Honda E?
Tough choice!0 -
The Taycan is an awesome machine.Rob7Lee said:
When you consider the Honda is £300, the Taycan sub £600 it's pretty easy! Even the £130k Turbo is sub £900 a month.bobmunro said:Rob7Lee said:The range is what's put me off so far, but I think when I move house later this year I will get an electric as well. The ranges are getting better and better as I suspect will the infrastructure over time.
Luckily we have a scheme at work through a lease company where you pay via salary sacrifice so for me effectively almost half price. Can even get a Taycan from £500 a month!
I do like the look of the little Honda E for local trips, reminds me of a 70's mini clubman.
Taycan? Honda E?
Tough choice!1 -
We used to drive a Mercedes CLA220d Shooting Brake and averaged 45.5 mpg for a 2.0 litre diesel. We’re now 18 months into our ownership of a Toyota RAV4 hybrid (2wd) and are averaging 56.5 mpg at the moment for a 2.5litre petrol engine.
It ticks all our boxes, has more room, more comfortable to get in and out of and is generally a more comfortable drive.
My only criticism would be the outdated GPS system.0 -
Just ordered a VW ID.3 through company salary sacrifice. Seems like a good deal and on a two-year lease I won't be stuck with yesterday's technology when it's time to hand it back. We're keeping our diesel beast and will use the VW as our local car. Not sure if the EV will really save any money but I'm just fascinated by this transition, warts and all. It will be interesting to hear how fellow Lifers get on with EVs.
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