Do people think we’re 20 years away from electric cars becoming mainstream / if ever?
If you could charge your electric car as easily and as quickly as a petrol/diesel and the cost & choice of the cars were similar, we'd switch very quickly.
Very interesting reading. I need to change my car soon (Jaguar XE). On PCP (I know I know) and although the final payment is not due until October I will have passed the "allotted" mileage by April. However, this wont be a problem if I dont trade it in with Jaguar for another one of theirs & I've been thinking a Hybrid......and the 2 I've seen advertised that I like the look of are (coincidently) the Lexus UX & the Hyundai Ionic.
Problem is I'm used to certain comforts & like all leather interior. Havent been in to see either close up but am I wrong to think I may he a but disappointed after having driven a Jaguar for the past 7 years (previous car was the XF). Before that it was a Honda FRV which I did 130,000 miles in just under 7 years.....so it's not as though I'm adverse to an non "executive" car.
Not managed to read the whole thread, so more fool me, but are there enough resources to make all the batteries? Or will be ransack the earth getting the heavy metals etc.
Surely hydrogen cell technology is a better best for the future?
Just watched a piece on BBC London news. Said that the National Grid will need to increase capacity by 50% in this decade alone to cater for the introduction of electric cars.
Actually, not sure hydrogen is the answer either. Need to look at people doing fewer trips by car!
I'd almost be tempted to rent an electric car on an ad-hoc basis, like a Boris bike. I only tend to drive to Tesco on a Saturday, and kids swimming once a week (can cycle when it's lighter). The occasional other drive but for the cost of running a car, be interesting to see if that kind of rental of plausible
In the road next to us one of the lampposts has a charging point in it. Haven’t yet worked out how any user of the charging point is charged for its use nor whether if I wanted one next to my house how easy it would be to arrange.
I've never seen one of these lamppost charging points. One of my concerns is that it is just going to be another invitation to vandalism by local yobs - instead of running a screwdriver along your paintwork they'll find a way to cut the cable without electrocuting themselves and you'll find your car uncharged in the morning. Presumably the same could be true even if your car is parked on your own driveway?
My next door neighbour has a petrol hybrid - never runs a cable out to it (we live in terrace houses); just charges it from the petrol, which seems to me to defeat the green objective!
In the road next to us one of the lampposts has a charging point in it. Haven’t yet worked out how any user of the charging point is charged for its use nor whether if I wanted one next to my house how easy it would be to arrange.
I've never seen one of these lamppost charging points. One of my concerns is that it is just going to be another invitation to vandalism by local yobs - instead of running a screwdriver along your paintwork they'll find a way to cut the cable without electrocuting themselves and you'll find your car uncharged in the morning. Presumably the same could be true even if your car is parked on your own driveway?
My next door neighbour has a petrol hybrid - never runs a cable out to it (we live in terrace houses); just charges it from the petrol, which seems to me to defeat the green objective!
I now have a petrol hybrid and the emissions and fuel consumption are much lower than a normal petrol or diesel car. The emissions are so low that I have don't have to pay car tax and am currently exempt from the congestion charge.
In the road next to us one of the lampposts has a charging point in it. Haven’t yet worked out how any user of the charging point is charged for its use nor whether if I wanted one next to my house how easy it would be to arrange.
I've never seen one of these lamppost charging points. One of my concerns is that it is just going to be another invitation to vandalism by local yobs - instead of running a screwdriver along your paintwork they'll find a way to cut the cable without electrocuting themselves and you'll find your car uncharged in the morning. Presumably the same could be true even if your car is parked on your own driveway?
My next door neighbour has a petrol hybrid - never runs a cable out to it (we live in terrace houses); just charges it from the petrol, which seems to me to defeat the green objective!
But does it have a cable? It might be what's called a "mild hybrid", which is what all the early one were, and mine is.
Or it does have a cable, and he's a lazy bugger like my mate with his Volvo XC60? In which case, yes, he is defeating the object.
@McBobbin when I was in Berlin couple of months back, seemed like every third car was a rented electric. Not surprising as apparently only 30% of Berliners own their own car.
I'm not convinced battery electric is the way forward. Even if you look beyond the resources to produce the batteries and the massive issues with disposing of them I just dont think it's an efficient long term solution to simply carry your electricity around with you.
It's a long long long way off but I feel like a power source on the road is the way forward. Especially when combined with autonomous vehicles.
Anyone who has seen minority report - something along those lines.
I'm not convinced battery electric is the way forward. Even if you look beyond the resources to produce the batteries and the massive issues with disposing of them I just dont think it's an efficient long term solution to simply carry your electricity around with you.
It's a long long long way off but I feel like a power source on the road is the way forward. Especially when combined with autonomous vehicles.
Anyone who has seen minority report - something along those lines.
I'm not convinced battery electric is the way forward. Even if you look beyond the resources to produce the batteries and the massive issues with disposing of them I just dont think it's an efficient long term solution to simply carry your electricity around with you.
It's a long long long way off but I feel like a power source on the road is the way forward. Especially when combined with autonomous vehicles.
Anyone who has seen minority report - something along those lines.
Your own personal tram!
I mean for the power source on the road concept yeah. Thinking further ahead the need to own a car should diminish and you can simply call or book one on an app. This would reduce the need for parking space and so increase capacity on more minor roads.
the infrastructure for recharging electrocar batteries will cost Billions .. who will pay for this .. and remember that electricity has to be generated somehow .. ever more 'windmills' blotting the landscape ? .. whatever, electric is the future
I'm not convinced battery electric is the way forward. Even if you look beyond the resources to produce the batteries and the massive issues with disposing of them I just dont think it's an efficient long term solution to simply carry your electricity around with you.
It's a long long long way off but I feel like a power source on the road is the way forward. Especially when combined with autonomous vehicles.
Anyone who has seen minority report - something along those lines.
Your own personal tram!
I mean for the power source on the road concept yeah. Thinking further ahead the need to own a car should diminish and you can simply call or book one on an app. This would reduce the need for parking space and so increase capacity on more minor roads.
The council can't even fix the potholes. What chance do they stand keeping a powered road way in working order?!
Read an interesting paper where they looked at a district in Munich and compared co2 omissions from everyone driving to the supermarket compared to having the groceries delivered. Interesting reading if anyone fancies it (proper science, so can skip most of the stats!). Cutting down on journeys and energy use will be just as important as how cars are powered
I'm not convinced battery electric is the way forward. Even if you look beyond the resources to produce the batteries and the massive issues with disposing of them I just dont think it's an efficient long term solution to simply carry your electricity around with you.
It's a long long long way off but I feel like a power source on the road is the way forward. Especially when combined with autonomous vehicles.
Anyone who has seen minority report - something along those lines.
I imagine that most batteries will be recycled like mobile phones and put back to use in something else when the car’s life is done.
I can imagine autonomous buses and taxis commonplace in cities in 20 years and they could plug themselves in when they’re low on charge.
Powering a car on the move sounds longer off, but perhaps now you have rapid charging and wireless charging capabilities, there could be certain zones at cross roads and junctions to boost power by x miles as required just by driving into the right spot for a minute or two.
Generating enough power in the grid will be tough!!! Hopefully battteries just get really quick and efficient and smart charging over night spreads load sensibly. Nuclear with renewables perhaps may be best carbon neutral approach until there’s better solution. May need to cut road users down with taxation, better public transport and better sharing and rental options.
Read an interesting paper where they looked at a district in Munich and compared co2 omissions from everyone driving to the supermarket compared to having the groceries delivered. Interesting reading if anyone fancies it (proper science, so can skip most of the stats!). Cutting down on journeys and energy use will be just as important as how cars are powered
Give us the exec summary :-) was the delivery the better option? Was contemplating that possibility the other day.
As mentioned several times above, the green credentials of electric transport do depend on being able to generate enough "zero carbon" electricity.
One type of renewable energy which has not, I think, been mentioned on this thread is tidal stream. This is not the type which requires a huge dam across somewhere like the Severn Estuary or Morecombe Bay, but an underwater version of a wind turbine which is operated by the flow of the tide both as it comes in and as it goes out.
It is still at the experimental stage, but prospects look good. I know of test rigs of varying designs which have been operated in Ireland, the Bristol Channel, and the Pentland Firth. It does not appear to pose a significant danger to marine life, can be positioned between the shore and the shipping channels, and unlike wind speed, the timing and strength of tidal stream is totally predictable. For those who want to know more, this is a good introduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_stream_generator
As with any new technology, there are engineering challenges to overcome, but I think it is only a matter of time, and when you consider the length of the coastline of the British Isles there are many suitable locations for "tide farms" where the tidal stream is particularly strong, such as off the south coast of the Isle of Wight.
Read an interesting paper where they looked at a district in Munich and compared co2 omissions from everyone driving to the supermarket compared to having the groceries delivered. Interesting reading if anyone fancies it (proper science, so can skip most of the stats!). Cutting down on journeys and energy use will be just as important as how cars are powered
Give us the exec summary :-) was the delivery the better option? Was contemplating that possibility the other day.
Basically yes, up until the point where enough people have electric cars. The size of the town was important as well, on larger more densely populated areas people tend to use alternative modes of travel rather than cars. Of course, there is better public transport, worse roads and nearer shops then
I think the problem with electric cars, will be the demand for roadside chargers. Yes, people can charge at home, but not everybody (flats, no drive etc..., When you have to make a journey where do you charge and what will be the difference from a charging space and a parking space? To me, the solution has to be standard batteries that can be mechanically changed at the equivalent of petrol stations. By introducing the standard, a government could get ahead of the game and create an industry. Also, if cars could take 2 and in some cases 3 of these, you just instantly change one when it runs out and you still have the security of the other.
The only other sensible option would be Hydrogen IMO. I don't think it would look good having the number of chargers needed everywhere and there will always be a delay from charging to being ready to go.
I think the problem with electric cars, will be the demand for roadside chargers. Yes, people can charge at home, but not everybody (flats, no drive etc..., When you have to make a journey where do you charge and what will be the difference from a charging space and a parking space? To me, the solution has to be standard batteries that can be mechanically changed at the equivalent of petrol stations. By introducing the standard, a government could get ahead of the game and create an industry. Also, if cars could take 2 and in some cases 3 of these, you just instantly change one when it runs out and you still have the security of the other.
The only other sensible option would be Hydrogen IMO. I don't think it would look good having the number of chargers needed everywhere and there will always be a delay from charging to being ready to go.
Of course the technology will develop much further but the current (pardon the pun) battery set-up wouldn't allow this because of weight.
My EV on order is a largish sized 4 door saloon but it weighs 2200kg. But it also has the new technology for the 800v chargers that will increase in number exponentially allowing 250 miles to be added to mine in about 20 minutes. Swap out batteries will never work in my opinion but with most of the current petrol stations becoming obsolete there business model will change to charging stations where they will have, certainly for service stations, 40/50 charging bays rather than maybe 16 or so pumps.
I think the problem with electric cars, will be the demand for roadside chargers. Yes, people can charge at home, but not everybody (flats, no drive etc..., When you have to make a journey where do you charge and what will be the difference from a charging space and a parking space? To me, the solution has to be standard batteries that can be mechanically changed at the equivalent of petrol stations. By introducing the standard, a government could get ahead of the game and create an industry. Also, if cars could take 2 and in some cases 3 of these, you just instantly change one when it runs out and you still have the security of the other.
The only other sensible option would be Hydrogen IMO. I don't think it would look good having the number of chargers needed everywhere and there will always be a delay from charging to being ready to go.
Of course the technology will develop much further but the current (pardon the pun) battery set-up wouldn't allow this because of weight.
My EV on order is a largish sized 4 door saloon but it weighs 2200kg. But it also has the new technology for the 800v chargers that will increase in number exponentially allowing 250 miles to be added to mine in about 20 minutes. Swap out batteries will never work in my opinion but with most of the current petrol stations becoming obsolete there business model will change to charging stations where they will have, certainly for service stations, 40/50 charging bays rather than maybe 16 or so pumps.
I think if the government set its stall, it is realistic to expect swap out battery technology to progress to a reasonable level in 10 years. Having the weight low would help the cars grip to the road and an electric engine would be lighter to compensate.
Comments
Problem is I'm used to certain comforts & like all leather interior. Havent been in to see either close up but am I wrong to think I may he a but disappointed after having driven a Jaguar for the past 7 years (previous car was the XF). Before that it was a Honda FRV which I did 130,000 miles in just under 7 years.....so it's not as though I'm adverse to an non "executive" car.
Surely hydrogen cell technology is a better best for the future?
I'd almost be tempted to rent an electric car on an ad-hoc basis, like a Boris bike. I only tend to drive to Tesco on a Saturday, and kids swimming once a week (can cycle when it's lighter). The occasional other drive but for the cost of running a car, be interesting to see if that kind of rental of plausible
My next door neighbour has a petrol hybrid - never runs a cable out to it (we live in terrace houses); just charges it from the petrol, which seems to me to defeat the green objective!
Or it does have a cable, and he's a lazy bugger like my mate with his Volvo XC60? In which case, yes, he is defeating the object.
@McBobbin when I was in Berlin couple of months back, seemed like every third car was a rented electric. Not surprising as apparently only 30% of Berliners own their own car.
It's a long long long way off but I feel like a power source on the road is the way forward. Especially when combined with autonomous vehicles.
Anyone who has seen minority report - something along those lines.
Something like that. But without going up building etc
One type of renewable energy which has not, I think, been mentioned on this thread is tidal stream.
This is not the type which requires a huge dam across somewhere like the Severn Estuary or Morecombe Bay, but an underwater version of a wind turbine which is operated by the flow of the tide both as it comes in and as it goes out.
It is still at the experimental stage, but prospects look good. I know of test rigs of varying designs which have been operated in Ireland, the Bristol Channel, and the Pentland Firth. It does not appear to pose a significant danger to marine life, can be positioned between the shore and the shipping channels, and unlike wind speed, the timing and strength of tidal stream is totally predictable. For those who want to know more, this is a good introduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_stream_generator
As with any new technology, there are engineering challenges to overcome, but I think it is only a matter of time, and when you consider the length of the coastline of the British Isles there are many suitable locations for "tide farms" where the tidal stream is particularly strong, such as off the south coast of the Isle of Wight.
Sort it out Boris !!!
The only other sensible option would be Hydrogen IMO. I don't think it would look good having the number of chargers needed everywhere and there will always be a delay from charging to being ready to go.