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Rumours Rumours - Summer 2021 edition (Deadline Day from p814)
Comments
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The thing is who will the ‘knives’ be pointed towards? TS - I don’t think so - having read Airman’s appraisal of what he is injecting, acknowledging it is his wealth and the fact he is not a multi-billionaire, not sure turning on him is warranted, fair, acceptable nor wise. God forbid this type of owner walks any time soon.J BLOCK said:
The team has 3 new players in it from last season, with 1 of those being a like for like goalkeeper. We all know a rebuild was needed and we are on 3 new signings with weeks left of the window. I have been glass half full about this most of the summer but if we lose Saturday, the knives will be out, whether you agree or disagree with it.ForeverAddickted said:
Only on loan though - Still had to re-negotiate with his parent club?J BLOCK said:
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.Garrymanilow said:
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budgetJ BLOCK said:
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.Garrymanilow said:
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.J BLOCK said:
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.Cafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Not like Forster-Caskey | Matthews etc. where we only had to re-negotiate a new deal
NA - clearly wants bodies in, seems to be a really really good guy and knows how to set a team up for success.
SG - all reports turn to working countless hours to get the right type of player over the line. In all honesty, none of us can appraise how effective he is being in this regard and what constraints may be upon him in securing the targets he is pursuing?GR - I still have no real idea what role he plays in any of this or the club, just that he is with us.
so there you have it, over recent years we have had a rat, an acronym which should have read S.H.I.T. etc to point a long hard finger (Kenneth on his way…) at, or ‘knife’ figuratively speaking, but of those mentioned above, I genuinely do not believe it is merited and we can only hope that those that are planning and bidding and negotiating know what they are doing and are preparing to whelm us at the very least.1 -
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.J BLOCK said:
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.cafcfan1990 said:
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.ForeverAddickted said:
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.killerandflash said:
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last seasonCafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.13 -
I suspect a large part of our recruitment problems to date is down to getting 4 people to agree on a player they all want within budget. Can’t be many other clubs who operate in this way I would of thought.Pavoren007 said:
The thing is who will the ‘knives’ be pointed towards? TS - I don’t think so - having read Airman’s appraisal of what he is injecting, acknowledging it is his wealth and the fact he is not a multi-billionaire, not sure turning on him is warranted, fair, acceptable nor wise. God forbid this type of owner walks any time soon.J BLOCK said:
The team has 3 new players in it from last season, with 1 of those being a like for like goalkeeper. We all know a rebuild was needed and we are on 3 new signings with weeks left of the window. I have been glass half full about this most of the summer but if we lose Saturday, the knives will be out, whether you agree or disagree with it.ForeverAddickted said:
Only on loan though - Still had to re-negotiate with his parent club?J BLOCK said:
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.Garrymanilow said:
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budgetJ BLOCK said:
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.Garrymanilow said:
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.J BLOCK said:
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.Cafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Not like Forster-Caskey | Matthews etc. where we only had to re-negotiate a new deal
NA - clearly wants bodies in, seems to be a really really good guy and knows how to set a team up for success.
SG - all reports turn to working countless hours to get the right type of player over the line. In all honesty, none of us can appraise how effective he is being in this regard and what constraints may be upon him in securing the targets he is pursuing?GR - I still have no real idea what role he plays in any of this or the club, just that he is with us.
so there you have it, over recent years we have had a rat, an acronym which should have read S.H.I.T. etc to point a long hard finger (Kenneth on his way…) at, or ‘knife’ figuratively speaking, but of those mentioned above, I genuinely do not believe it is merited and we can only hope that those that are planning and bidding and negotiating know what they are doing and are preparing to whelm us at the very least4 -
100% TS will take the flack.Pavoren007 said:
The thing is who will the ‘knives’ be pointed towards? TS - I don’t think so - having read Airman’s appraisal of what he is injecting, acknowledging it is his wealth and the fact he is not a multi-billionaire, not sure turning on him is warranted, fair, acceptable nor wise. God forbid this type of owner walks any time soon.J BLOCK said:
The team has 3 new players in it from last season, with 1 of those being a like for like goalkeeper. We all know a rebuild was needed and we are on 3 new signings with weeks left of the window. I have been glass half full about this most of the summer but if we lose Saturday, the knives will be out, whether you agree or disagree with it.ForeverAddickted said:
Only on loan though - Still had to re-negotiate with his parent club?J BLOCK said:
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.Garrymanilow said:
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budgetJ BLOCK said:
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.Garrymanilow said:
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.J BLOCK said:
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.Cafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
Not like Forster-Caskey | Matthews etc. where we only had to re-negotiate a new deal
NA - clearly wants bodies in, seems to be a really really good guy and knows how to set a team up for success.
SG - all reports turn to working countless hours to get the right type of player over the line. In all honesty, none of us can appraise how effective he is being in this regard and what constraints may be upon him in securing the targets he is pursuing?GR - I still have no real idea what role he plays in any of this or the club, just that he is with us.
so there you have it, over recent years we have had a rat, an acronym which should have read S.H.I.T. etc to point a long hard finger (Kenneth on his way…) at, or ‘knife’ figuratively speaking, but of those mentioned above, I genuinely do not believe it is merited and we can only hope that those that are planning and bidding and negotiating know what they are doing and are preparing to whelm us at the very least.For the record I’m not one of those who will ‘have the knives out’ for him. BUT like a lot of people i’m baffled at our lack of activity this window, and would like to understand why we are again relying heavily on loans this summer (as is likely to happen).2 -
Who said they don’t want loans?Cafc43v3r said:
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.J BLOCK said:
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.cafcfan1990 said:
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.ForeverAddickted said:
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.killerandflash said:
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last seasonCafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.1 -
If your bringing in loans that can't get in the team like Smith etc there is no point bringing in loans. They either need to be able to improve the team or offer an option from the bench. If its the latter and your in league 1 they are obviously well worth having, unless your going to spend a hell of a lot of cash, which was never realistic.J BLOCK said:
Who said they don’t want loans?Cafc43v3r said:
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.J BLOCK said:
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.cafcfan1990 said:
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.ForeverAddickted said:
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.killerandflash said:
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last seasonCafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
But you told us all for months we shouldn't be signing proven championship players because we will do better. Changed your tune?
BTW I am watching the local BBC news for Plymouth and there is no mention of any bids for Plymouth players or anything to do with the Argyle at all.2 -
‘As bad as it’s ever been’addick1956 said:
Spot on.blackpool72 said:8 years out of the last 13 spent in the 3rd tier of English football says to me this is as bad as it's ever been.
What?1 -
You’re making this up as you go along now, I’ve not been saying this for months at all.Cafc43v3r said:
If your bringing in loans that can't get in the team like Smith etc there is no point bringing in loans. They either need to be able to improve the team or offer an option from the bench. If its the latter and your in league 1 they are obviously well worth having, unless your going to spend a hell of a lot of cash, which was never realistic.J BLOCK said:
Who said they don’t want loans?Cafc43v3r said:
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.J BLOCK said:
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.cafcfan1990 said:
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.ForeverAddickted said:
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.killerandflash said:
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last seasonCafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
But you told us all for months we shouldn't be signing proven championship players because we will do better. Changed your tune?
BTW I am watching the local BBC news for Plymouth and there is no mention of any bids for Plymouth players or anything to do with the Argyle at all.If you’re happy with the merry go round of a small number of perm signings and a first team reliant on loan players then great. I’m not.And why are you mentioning Plymouth?2 -
And this is the million dollar question. Why is this our reality after all that’s been said?Cafc43v3r said:
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.J BLOCK said:
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.cafcfan1990 said:
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.ForeverAddickted said:
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.killerandflash said:
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last seasonCafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.2 -
Yeah, exactly. Why don't we just buy Championship players now eh?Redrobo said:If we buy players of league 1 standard players this season, won’t we need another re-build if we go up?0 - Sponsored links:
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arny23394 said:
We have signed 2 left backs without league experience recently in Da Silva & Maatsen. Nobody moaned because they were highly rated and came from excellent academies, like Cikrin.SomervilleAddick said:
Zero appearances for Spurs, no loans to lower clubs. So absolutely no experience.killerandflash said:
Very inexperienced though, I'd be surprised if he became Sunderland's first choice considering he's never played a senior gamecovered_end_junior said:
Highly rated by Spurs fans, the type of young player we should have been in for.Scoham said:Sunderland sign Dennis Cikrin from Spurs on a permanent deal. He’s a 19 year old left back. Another we’ve missed out on or are we looking for better?I can just imagine the reaction if we’d signed a left back with no league experience. I doubt anyone would be celebrating.
There is a difference though between loaning and buying players from a PL giant. The former happens because the PL wants to keep them, but give them match experience. The latter happens because the PL side doesn't think they're good enoughCroydon said:
Gallagher had no league experience. Was our best player by a milearny23394 said:
We have signed 2 left backs without league experience recently in Da Silva & Maatsen. Nobody moaned because they were highly rated and came from excellent academies, like Cikrin.SomervilleAddick said:
Zero appearances for Spurs, no loans to lower clubs. So absolutely no experience.killerandflash said:
Very inexperienced though, I'd be surprised if he became Sunderland's first choice considering he's never played a senior gamecovered_end_junior said:
Highly rated by Spurs fans, the type of young player we should have been in for.Scoham said:Sunderland sign Dennis Cikrin from Spurs on a permanent deal. He’s a 19 year old left back. Another we’ve missed out on or are we looking for better?I can just imagine the reaction if we’d signed a left back with no league experience. I doubt anyone would be celebrating.
Of course that's a simplistic division, as PL clubs like Chelsea hoard young players as a business, but it also has to be said that loads of players have come out of Arsenal and Spurs and vanished to the lower leagues or non league once the "former Arsenal/Spurs player" sheen wears off.0 -
Sounds like a saucepan.DOUCHER said:i am reliably informed that kirk to us is still going to happen - i know nothing on timescales - the source is no longer cast iron, once was as cast iron as u could get, but is still very close to many who are cast iron - stick that in the smelting pot - hopefully a little boost for those who choose to believe it, i have no reason not to
Geddit, source, pan? Oh forget it.
Got anymore copper-bottomed rumours?
2 -
Tydeman and Peacock's free kick routines were the stuff of legendBailey said:
For the record Doucher, Dick Tydeman captained one of the best sides we had in the eighties, under Mike Bailey. They basically cruised to promotion and I think they set either a record number of wins or games undefeated that season. I think you may have been unfortunate to witness the season before when they got relegated, Bailey was appointed Manager then he wasn't, we had shit bags at the club in Tony Hazel and Lawrie Madden and they were that bad you and I could have got a game. If Dick Tydeman ever lumped it long then it was a game I must have missed, he was known for his passing ability.DOUCHER said:my mate played for welling in the eighties when berry joined them just as he was finishing his career - said he was awful - i remember both of them as a kid and all i remember about them is lumping it into the channel and getting done for pace
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Because they will either be too expensive or would not drop a league - especially if we want mid to top class players.up_the_valley said:
Yeah, exactly. Why don't we just buy Championship players now eh?Redrobo said:If we buy players of league 1 standard players this season, won’t we need another re-build if we go up?2 -
It won't take long to get used to the way we play.....sam3110 said:We won't get relegated with this side, no. But we sure has hell won't get anywhere near the top 6 either.
The concerning thing for me is there's nothing to suggest to me so far that we'll be entertaining to watch this season, and I'll be ok with that if it's effective and gets us out of this poxy league, but that won't be the case with the current players.
3 weeks to shape the squad, and any new signings now will take time to integrate into our squad, the system in place and the way we play
Get the ball lump it long towards Jayden. Rinse and repeat.
PS try not to shoot2 -
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly notedJ BLOCK said:
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.Garrymanilow said:
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budgetJ BLOCK said:
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.Garrymanilow said:
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.J BLOCK said:
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.Cafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
5 -
They're simmering away...Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
Sounds like a saucepan.DOUCHER said:i am reliably informed that kirk to us is still going to happen - i know nothing on timescales - the source is no longer cast iron, once was as cast iron as u could get, but is still very close to many who are cast iron - stick that in the smelting pot - hopefully a little boost for those who choose to believe it, i have no reason not to
Geddit, source, pan? Oh forget it.
Got anymore copper-bottomed rumours?
0 -
I didn't say I was happy, nor did I say you should be. If you think I did please show me where I said it. You verging on the 59th level of fantasy now.J BLOCK said:
You’re making this up as you go along now, I’ve not been saying this for months at all.Cafc43v3r said:
If your bringing in loans that can't get in the team like Smith etc there is no point bringing in loans. They either need to be able to improve the team or offer an option from the bench. If its the latter and your in league 1 they are obviously well worth having, unless your going to spend a hell of a lot of cash, which was never realistic.J BLOCK said:
Who said they don’t want loans?Cafc43v3r said:
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.J BLOCK said:
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.cafcfan1990 said:
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.ForeverAddickted said:
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.killerandflash said:
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last seasonCafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
But you told us all for months we shouldn't be signing proven championship players because we will do better. Changed your tune?
BTW I am watching the local BBC news for Plymouth and there is no mention of any bids for Plymouth players or anything to do with the Argyle at all.If you’re happy with the merry go round of a small number of perm signings and a first team reliant on loan players then great. I’m not.And why are you mentioning Plymouth?
You said players like Matthews should be released and players like cousins shouldn't be considered because we would do better.....
I am mentioning Plymouth for a reason totally unrelated to your post, which I prefrenced with a BTW because I though everyone knew it was the best source of Charlton news 1 -
My problem is that at the end of last season the team needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.Garrymanilow said:
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly notedJ BLOCK said:
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.Garrymanilow said:
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budgetJ BLOCK said:
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.Garrymanilow said:
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.J BLOCK said:
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.Cafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.5 -
Wonder how that new player that was reported earlier this week as training with the club is progressing????2
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Nice attempt at a recovery. The Plymouth thing sunk you though 😀Cafc43v3r said:
I didn't say I was happy, nor did I say you should be. If you think I did please show me where I said it. You verging on the 59th level of fantasy now.J BLOCK said:
You’re making this up as you go along now, I’ve not been saying this for months at all.Cafc43v3r said:
If your bringing in loans that can't get in the team like Smith etc there is no point bringing in loans. They either need to be able to improve the team or offer an option from the bench. If its the latter and your in league 1 they are obviously well worth having, unless your going to spend a hell of a lot of cash, which was never realistic.J BLOCK said:
Who said they don’t want loans?Cafc43v3r said:
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.J BLOCK said:
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.cafcfan1990 said:
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.ForeverAddickted said:
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.killerandflash said:
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last seasonCafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
But you told us all for months we shouldn't be signing proven championship players because we will do better. Changed your tune?
BTW I am watching the local BBC news for Plymouth and there is no mention of any bids for Plymouth players or anything to do with the Argyle at all.If you’re happy with the merry go round of a small number of perm signings and a first team reliant on loan players then great. I’m not.And why are you mentioning Plymouth?
You said players like Matthews should be released and players like cousins shouldn't be considered because we would do better.....
I am mentioning Plymouth for a reason totally unrelated to your post, which I prefrenced with a BTW because I though everyone knew it was the best source of Charlton news1 -
On the basis that we still need to sign 7 players and expect the majority of those to happen on deadline day, I think the club should do a Charlton TV 'deadline day special' broadcast.ValleyGary said:I would love to see an in depth documentary on a clubs recruitment process. We’ve all got this image of Football Manager which we know isn’t true, but we are also told of a team of people working round the clock. Fair enough, but what they doing? Who they calling? What they saying? It can’t be like Wolf of bloody Wall Street.
I genuinely think that fans would pay £5-£10 to watch an afternoon / eve show where...
1. Scotty Minto holds live interviews with new signings
2. Gallen / Roddy give us updates on how they are getting on
3. Our physios discuss how they manage medicals on deadline day
4. Youngsters leaving the club on loan disuss their loan opportunities
5. We see new players integrated into Nigel / Johnnies training session & hear what NA & JJ expect our acquisitions to bring to the team
6. Chris Parkes talks about his role in registering players and avoiding another Hemed situation.
7. Plus we see highlights of the Charlton v Crawley Papa Johns tie happening on the same day.
A package like the above has the potential to make great viewing and see decent Charlton TV subscription sales for the club. With Minto on board we have a presenter good enough to deliver it.
2 -
But the newness doesn't matter. At the end of the season Stockley went back to Preston. Akin went back to Norwich and JFC, Pearce, Watson and Matthews were about to leave the club. We then took action and renewed, purchased or re-loaned all of those players. Their 'newness' is completely irrelevant. The whole point of your original gripe was that we don't want to just be signing loans; with Stockley we turned a successful loan into a permanent who will wear the captain's armband on the pitch this season. If you think that signing Stockley on a 3 year deal after his loan ended isn't part of the rebuild then no-one can do anything for you.J BLOCK said:
My problem is that at the end of last season we needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.Garrymanilow said:
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly notedJ BLOCK said:
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.Garrymanilow said:
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budgetJ BLOCK said:
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.Garrymanilow said:
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.J BLOCK said:
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.Cafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
1 -
You’re happy to take it as it being the situation we’re in. I’m not, I’d question why we’re in that situation.Cafc43v3r said:
I didn't say I was happy, nor did I say you should be. If you think I did please show me where I said it. You verging on the 59th level of fantasy now.J BLOCK said:
You’re making this up as you go along now, I’ve not been saying this for months at all.Cafc43v3r said:
If your bringing in loans that can't get in the team like Smith etc there is no point bringing in loans. They either need to be able to improve the team or offer an option from the bench. If its the latter and your in league 1 they are obviously well worth having, unless your going to spend a hell of a lot of cash, which was never realistic.J BLOCK said:
Who said they don’t want loans?Cafc43v3r said:
It's not OK, it's not ideal, it's far from perfect. But it is reality. Ipswich for all their splashing the cash, have already brought in two on loan.J BLOCK said:
There’s some people that think that’s ok. Bizarre.cafcfan1990 said:
5 loans every season means this is going to be the case every summer though.ForeverAddickted said:
To be fair, neither really needed to as they didnt lose the First Team players like we did.killerandflash said:
Neither Peterborough (1 loan plus an emergency keeper) or Hull (max 3 loans) relied heavily on loans last seasonCafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.
Peterborough lost Toney on 1st Sept that was it apart from those they chose to release... Even before selling Toney they'd had already brought in Clarke-Harris and then brought in Szmodics a week later, and that was it - So meant they effectively went into League One with the same squad the season from before.
Its why its frustrating that we still need such depth added to the team, if we didnt then I'd favour our chances over Ipswich, as we'd be the team in Peterborough's shoes where we'd have the squad togetherness and familiarity sorted, whilst Paul Cook after two games is still trying to gel his squad together.
Its also worth noting that Peterborough that season before "finished" in seventh, the exact same place as us last term - They went into that summer knowing just a small bit of tweaking was all that was needed - Shame we didnt learn from that ourselves.
But we all wanted the squad overhaul didnt we
Saying you don't want loans is like saying you don't want to rent then living in your mums basement until your 40.
I don't want loans but I know we need them.
You’re missing the point, it’s relying on loans I have a problem with, after all that’s been said.
But you told us all for months we shouldn't be signing proven championship players because we will do better. Changed your tune?
BTW I am watching the local BBC news for Plymouth and there is no mention of any bids for Plymouth players or anything to do with the Argyle at all.If you’re happy with the merry go round of a small number of perm signings and a first team reliant on loan players then great. I’m not.And why are you mentioning Plymouth?
You said players like Matthews should be released and players like cousins shouldn't be considered because we would do better.....
I am mentioning Plymouth for a reason totally unrelated to your post, which I prefrenced with a BTW because I though everyone knew it was the best source of Charlton news
Big stretch to say Ive been banging on for months that we shouldn’t sign experienced championship players because I didn’t want us to resign matthews and Jordan cousins. I guess some people are content with mediocracy.1 -
good question - no idea personally but fingers crossedIanaddick62 said:Wonder how that new player that was reported earlier this week as training with the club is progressing????1 -
To you it doesn’t.Garrymanilow said:
But the newness doesn't matter. At the end of the season Stockley went back to Preston. Akin went back to Norwich and JFC, Pearce, Watson and Matthews were about to leave the club. We then took action and renewed, purchased or re-loaned all of those players. Their 'newness' is completely irrelevant. The whole point of your original gripe was that we don't want to just be signing loans; with Stockley we turned a successful loan into a permanent who will wear the captain's armband on the pitch this season. If you think that signing Stockley on a 3 year deal after his loan ended isn't part of the rebuild then no-one can do anything for you.J BLOCK said:
My problem is that at the end of last season we needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.Garrymanilow said:
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly notedJ BLOCK said:
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.Garrymanilow said:
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budgetJ BLOCK said:
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.Garrymanilow said:
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.J BLOCK said:
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.Cafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.To me, I look at the squad that finished end of last season and the one we have now. Stockley’s a fantastic signing but if he’s part of the team that wasn’t good enough to get playoffs last season, I’m going to look at who else is added to that team in order to be better this year. 3 players.This is a team that hasn’t replaced their top goal scorer chucks as well btw.6 -
Lee Ryan is looking for a game. We could do worse 🙄0
-
But we are talking about why we are still relying on loans. The reason for that is because we've put a large amount of expenditure into signing up new players. Stockley is a new player, whether you want to accept that or not, and he came with a fee. The four out of contract players also had to be signed up, along with Famewo, Dobson, Mac and Clare. The point of what we're discussing is why we still need to get the loans, and all of these fees and new salaries are part of the budget for the year. That means that we can make some progress towards rebuilding but we will likely be unable to get an entirely new squad on permanents. That takes time and a lot of money and so we'll likely need to settle for some short term fills, and then we'll plug those gaps with permanents the next season. Rebuilds take time. If we hadn't had the squad left in such a state by previous owners then we wouldn't have to do this, but the reality is we doJ BLOCK said:
To you it doesn’t. To me, I look at the squad that finished end of last season and the one we have now. Stockley’s a fantastic signing but if he’s part of the team that wasn’t good enough to get playoffs last season, I’m going to look at who else is added to that team in order to better this year. 3 players.Garrymanilow said:
But the newness doesn't matter. At the end of the season Stockley went back to Preston. Akin went back to Norwich and JFC, Pearce, Watson and Matthews were about to leave the club. We then took action and renewed, purchased or re-loaned all of those players. Their 'newness' is completely irrelevant. The whole point of your original gripe was that we don't want to just be signing loans; with Stockley we turned a successful loan into a permanent who will wear the captain's armband on the pitch this season. If you think that signing Stockley on a 3 year deal after his loan ended isn't part of the rebuild then no-one can do anything for you.J BLOCK said:
My problem is that at the end of last season we needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.Garrymanilow said:
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly notedJ BLOCK said:
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.Garrymanilow said:
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budgetJ BLOCK said:
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.Garrymanilow said:
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.J BLOCK said:
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.Cafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
2 -
I agree with your points here mate. I personally would add that I think Stockleys great but for me is never going to be a striker that fires you to promotion. We need a goalscorer alongside him. What really worries me is the severe lack of goals through the starting 11 and back ups.J BLOCK said:
To you it doesn’t.Garrymanilow said:
But the newness doesn't matter. At the end of the season Stockley went back to Preston. Akin went back to Norwich and JFC, Pearce, Watson and Matthews were about to leave the club. We then took action and renewed, purchased or re-loaned all of those players. Their 'newness' is completely irrelevant. The whole point of your original gripe was that we don't want to just be signing loans; with Stockley we turned a successful loan into a permanent who will wear the captain's armband on the pitch this season. If you think that signing Stockley on a 3 year deal after his loan ended isn't part of the rebuild then no-one can do anything for you.J BLOCK said:
My problem is that at the end of last season we needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.Garrymanilow said:
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly notedJ BLOCK said:
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.Garrymanilow said:
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budgetJ BLOCK said:
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.Garrymanilow said:
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.J BLOCK said:
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.Cafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.To me, I look at the squad that finished end of last season and the one we have now. Stockley’s a fantastic signing but if he’s part of the team that wasn’t good enough to get playoffs last season, I’m going to look at who else is added to that team in order to be better this year. 3 players.This is a team that hasn’t replaced their top goal scorer chucks as well btw.1 -
Re-signing players is just standard expenditure, and I imagine the wages for Pearce and Watson have come down anyway. Dobson and Clare were hardly major signings financiallyGarrymanilow said:
But we are talking about why we are still relying on loans. The reason for that is because we've put a large amount of expenditure into signing up new players. Stockley is a new player, whether you want to accept that or not, and he came with a fee. The four out of contract players also had to be signed up, along with Famewo, Dobson, Mac and Clare. The point of what we're discussing is why we still need to get the loans, and all of these fees and new salaries are part of the budget for the year. That means that we can make some progress towards rebuilding but we will likely be unable to get an entirely new squad on permanents. That takes time and a lot of money and so we'll likely need to settle for some short term fills, and then we'll plug those gaps with permanents the next season. Rebuilds take time. If we hadn't had the squad left in such a state by previous owners then we wouldn't have to do this, but the reality is we doJ BLOCK said:
To you it doesn’t. To me, I look at the squad that finished end of last season and the one we have now. Stockley’s a fantastic signing but if he’s part of the team that wasn’t good enough to get playoffs last season, I’m going to look at who else is added to that team in order to better this year. 3 players.Garrymanilow said:
But the newness doesn't matter. At the end of the season Stockley went back to Preston. Akin went back to Norwich and JFC, Pearce, Watson and Matthews were about to leave the club. We then took action and renewed, purchased or re-loaned all of those players. Their 'newness' is completely irrelevant. The whole point of your original gripe was that we don't want to just be signing loans; with Stockley we turned a successful loan into a permanent who will wear the captain's armband on the pitch this season. If you think that signing Stockley on a 3 year deal after his loan ended isn't part of the rebuild then no-one can do anything for you.J BLOCK said:
My problem is that at the end of last season we needed a rebuild. We have brought in 3 NEW players, not sure what’s hard to grasp about it.Garrymanilow said:
Yeah, and now he's permanent. A 3 year deal as part of a rebuild, meaning that long term we can sign fewer loans, which is what we're talking about. Is your problem that some of our signings aren't new enough? I think you've really lost the thread of what you're complaining about. You're upset though, duly notedJ BLOCK said:
Yes three, stockley isn’t new, he was here last season.Garrymanilow said:
Have we? We've signed Dobson, Clare, MacGillivray and Stockley this summer, so that's four, and we've got a possible deal in place to buy Akin all being well. We also renewed Matthews, JFC, Pearce and Watson, who were all on their way out. We also signed DJ last January who is a key part of our rebuild, and to a lesser extent Schwartz who so far isn't working out but we'll see. Add to that the deal that's apparently in place to sign Kirk if we can get it over the line, that's actually a large number of players we've tied down to the club since Sandgaard was able to. It might not be all exciting big transfers but it's a lot of expenditure on getting in enough players to be able to function as a football side. That's what we'll need to build on over time. On top of that the window isn't closed yet and we could see more permanents coming in. We've heard that teams want silly money for their players so getting some quality loans in is a no-brainer to flesh out the squad, and then hopefully fill those spots the next window/season with a new budgetJ BLOCK said:
We have to do a total rebuild and we’ve bought in 3 new first team players this summer thus far, I’d say that’s worth questioning.Garrymanilow said:
Because we have to do a total rebuild thanks to the mismanagement of the club over the past few years. Under Roland it was all loans and short-term deals and sales of useful players. So far this season we've renewed a number of contracts and signed some permanent players on 2 and 3 year deals. In the short term we'll need to bring in loans, but next season we'll have a better spine in place and can add to ti with new permanent players and bring in fewer loans. If Roland and ESI hadn't left us in such a state then this wouldn't be necessary, but they did, so it is.J BLOCK said:
Of course it should. We’ve been told, having a new squad every year isn’t sustainable and we are going to rely heavily on Loan players being in our first team. Why are we continuing with the same strategy we’ve have for the past few years.Cafc43v3r said:
No it shouldn't, if you don't use your 5 loans well, you won't go up. It's a gift horse. Get it right and you will go up. Don't and you either need to be incredibly lucky or spend a fucking fortune. Even the mighty Ipswich, and Sir Chris used loans.J BLOCK said:Questions should be asked as to why we are again going to be relying heavily on loans vs buying players, if/when this inevitably happens.Remember, this is the second transfer window under TS now.
In the summer of 2016 we signed 10 players plus 3 loans to put it in context. That WAS a summer of rebuilding after relegation
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