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Rumours Rumours - Summer 2021 edition (Deadline Day from p814)
Comments
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There's no way we've offered anyone £9k a week. We paid money for Stockley, made him our 'main man' and are paying him '£6k'. Not sure where you get those figures fromRonnieMoore said:
Stockley 6k a week and we offered Graham 9k a week .. don’t think that’s tightAddictedoldgit said:
Dodgy source but it's a real rumour.Valley11 said:
Dale?RedRobin said:From another forum but Gallen is apparently back up Crewe today…….
Lowery maybe?VFR4life said:opinion from my souurce is that its a matter of him being tight as we should't be struggling as our club is massive yet for some reason were struggling to attract players
This windows been so slow just a dodgy rumour gets me excited.
Please be true!1 -
The side we had last year was one of the dullest Charlton sides I've seen. We've then lost the most exciting attacking players from that squad in Aneke and Millar and not replaced them so far (maybe Kirk will)
How many of the squad would you say could play championship football? A handful maybe? That's the problem, our past two promotions you could see our players had the ability to do so. This current crop, although very early days, the signs don't look good.2 -
Could've got Mullin if we were paying that!RonnieMoore said:
Stockley 6k a week and we offered Graham 9k a week .. don’t think that’s tightAddictedoldgit said:
Dodgy source but it's a real rumour.Valley11 said:
Dale?RedRobin said:From another forum but Gallen is apparently back up Crewe today…….
Lowery maybe?VFR4life said:opinion from my souurce is that its a matter of him being tight as we should't be struggling as our club is massive yet for some reason were struggling to attract players
This windows been so slow just a dodgy rumour gets me excited.
Please be true!4 -
Not even sure I'd say a handful to a decent level. Famewo, Matthews and Stockley could do a job if he had a partner then I'm struggling. Most would probably say Inniss but I'm not sure.BigRedEvil said:The side we had last year was one of the dullest Charlton sides I've seen. We've then lost the most exciting attacking players from that squad in Aneke and Millar and not replaced them so far (maybe Kirk will)
How many of the squad would you say could play championship football? A handful maybe? That's the problem, our past two promotions you could see our players had the ability to do so. This current crop, although very early days, the signs don't look good.0 -
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We're working hard but come deadline day we just won't be able to get them over the line. Things have gone sour very quickly. Yes TS possibly saved our bacon & continues to fund the club but we're going nowhere.DamoNorthStand said:
I think we maybe need one more than that to get ourselves in the position we need to be:addick1956 said:Just over 2 weeks of the window left. We need 5-6 players. In our recruitment staff we trust ? Well , actually, no.
Striker to compete with Stockley
Morgan replacement (Morgan becomes squad player)
Clare replacement (Clare becomes squad player)
New left back
Additional centre back option
Reserve keeper to put pressure on the new bloke
Potentially also be nice to get squad options to compete with DJ….
So 6-7…. We have been told to be patient and they will come. Guess we will find out in the next two weeks.2 -
Well itll more likely be Lowery as he isn’t involved in the first team at the moment.eastterrace6168 said:0 -
Lowery is refusing to even negotiate on a new contract isn't he? For those who don't follow players from other clubs, what type of midfielder is he, won't pass the height test will he?3
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QPR did not spend £2m on Bonne, Richard Cawley debunked that at the timearny23394 said:
Bonne was 2m alone…jacob_CAFC said:
I doubt we even made half of £3mkillerandflash said:
But then most L1 clubs made money from transfer dealings. During 2020/21 we sold Bonne, Phillips and Doughty, that must be at least £3m.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Ipswich made around 3m in transfer fees by selling Dozzell, Downes and Gibbs this summer, so a lot of the money they've spent on their 16 signings has actually been recouped.Cafc43v3r said:
Ipswich's approach isn't as high risk as people keep saying. For the sake of simplicity I am going to use the following assumptions.ShootersHillGuru said:
I think with their recruitment this window and with Paul Cook at the helm, Ipswich will more than likely get promoted this season, or at least let’s say have an outstanding chance. Part one of the strategy ✔️. Getting out of league one this way is one thing. Getting out of The Championship using the same strategy is quite another. Quite a few of this seasons buys and many of those remaining from before won’t cut it in The Championship. They’ll have to spend big again next season at a much greater cost with much less guaranteed success. It’s possible but if Ipswich are not in The Premier League in 24/25 then how long will the money tap be open. If and when it does close what then. Very high risk strategy.SomervilleAddick said:
That’s exactly it, as Dippenhall, it one high risk investment for the pension fund. Many funds have a high risk component. The story alway was that if 1 in 5 worked you made a profit even after writing off the other 4. It’s a bundle of cash for Ipswich, and a very small financial hit for the fund if it doesn’t work. But it not a cash stream. If they don’t succeed this year, or maybe next, the money will dry up quickly.cabbles said:
How does ORG/the pension fund make a return on its investment? I know the club could make money if they reach the Premier League, but how does that equate to an ROI for the fund? Is it going to be similar to the Glazers at Man Utd?Dippenhall said:
The pension fund has not made a direct investment in the club, it is has passed over it would seem about 0.03%, an insignificant part, of its £13bn of assets to a modest US portfolio manager ORG Portfolio Management as a small play on the market to diversify returns with a bit of risk and a higher potential return.AndyG said:
I do find this whole pension investment thing at Ipswich very interesting. I like alot of people have a SIPP and through that own some commercial property. When one of them need some maintenance the pension administrator insists I get 3 quotes for anything I spend from my SIPP. This is slightly annoying as I own a building maintenance company lol, but that is the job of a pension administrator and why I pay them their fees. How on earth has the administrator of that American fund approved investment into a football club in the uk ?Rothko said:
Exactly, very easy to spend Karen from Ohio 401k then your own moneyshine166 said:Can everyone thats saying we are obviously refusing to pay wages, at least acknowledge that TS is spending his own money, while the Ipswich owner is spending the money of others ?
It seems most of the investment will have been to acquire debt and property from Marcus Evans, so mostly fixed rate returns, and probably at tasty rates. That is the attraction for the pension fund.
The 90% equity gives ORG overall control to appoint management and give a windfall if Ipswich get promoted and justify the level of risk being taken. It does not mean there is a gravy train of cash pouring out of the pension fund. It is an arms length investment via ORG and if it goes bad it will just be one of the many small higher risk investments that statistically will go bad for the pension fund.
The pension fund will not be involved in the day to day running of the club, or writing cheques for Paul Cook, that is down to the management team. ORG is 90% shareholder but only has one representative sitting on the board. That is not the set up if you gave the club your magic porridge pot.
The management team calling the shots and spunking money on players are the 3 yanks who own "Three Lions Fund" which has a 5% investment and the CEO who is ex West Brom CEO. If it goes bad these will be the fall guys who ORG will blame for losing money for their client pension fund. ORG is not playing with its own money and it will not throw good money after bad on behalf of its client.
The idea that the pension fund is writing cheques for Paul Cook, or that he has access to an unlimited source of money is fanciful.
Paul Cook has been given the keys to the sweet shop, but when he runs out of sweets and the club is still in League 1 he will be stuffed even if the ultimate owner does have £13bn of assets.
They get the same crowds as us.
Their academy has the same over heads as ours.
Their commercial and TV revenue is the same as us.
Their nonfootball staffing costs are similar to ours.
Despite increased costs you can get a lot closer to break even in the championship.
For a club of a similar size to us a wage bill of about 8 to 10 million a year and revenue in the region of 7 million, in league 1 is about right. Once you factor in all the other costs your looking at a loss of about 9ish million. Plus or minus transfers.
That's probably, more or less, true for about 6 clubs in league 1 this season, who have owners that can cover the loss. Then you have about six more that have significantly smaller fixed costs and over heads, but significantly smaller revenue streams (crowds, commercial etc) but can still pay decent wages and top it up with player sales.
I would suggest before you start every season there are 10-12 clubs who's aim is promotion. Most won't get promoted will have to book the loss and repeat it again next year.
If you work on the basis that most 1st team players at the "big clubs" are on between 4 and 6k a week. Going "all in" and paying all your first team 10k a week would increase your wage bill by about 3 million a year. Ipswich are not paying all their first team 10k a week, or even close in most cases.
You can cover that with one good sale if you don't go up. Someone like Fraser or Pigott, for example.
The clubs who get in big trouble, generally, are the championship clubs that end up paying 30k a week plus, in some cases plus a lot, chasing the premier league.
There is a middle ground to be found in the championship, there isn't in league 1 for a club as big as us and Ipswich.1 -
Or....maybe......just maybe.....they are working on things behind the scenes and keeping the cards close to there chest...J BLOCK said:Painfully quite2 -
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He's the opposite, more Ajose-sizedRothko said:Lowery is refusing to even negotiate on a new contract isn't he? For those who don't follow players from other clubs, what type of midfielder is he, won't pass the height test will he?0 -
Fair enough. How much did we get for him? Still can’t see us selling him, Phillips and Doughty for less 1.5m.jacob_CAFC said:
QPR did not spend £2m on Bonne, Richard Cawley debunked that at the timearny23394 said:
Bonne was 2m alone…jacob_CAFC said:
I doubt we even made half of £3mkillerandflash said:
But then most L1 clubs made money from transfer dealings. During 2020/21 we sold Bonne, Phillips and Doughty, that must be at least £3m.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Ipswich made around 3m in transfer fees by selling Dozzell, Downes and Gibbs this summer, so a lot of the money they've spent on their 16 signings has actually been recouped.Cafc43v3r said:
Ipswich's approach isn't as high risk as people keep saying. For the sake of simplicity I am going to use the following assumptions.ShootersHillGuru said:
I think with their recruitment this window and with Paul Cook at the helm, Ipswich will more than likely get promoted this season, or at least let’s say have an outstanding chance. Part one of the strategy ✔️. Getting out of league one this way is one thing. Getting out of The Championship using the same strategy is quite another. Quite a few of this seasons buys and many of those remaining from before won’t cut it in The Championship. They’ll have to spend big again next season at a much greater cost with much less guaranteed success. It’s possible but if Ipswich are not in The Premier League in 24/25 then how long will the money tap be open. If and when it does close what then. Very high risk strategy.SomervilleAddick said:
That’s exactly it, as Dippenhall, it one high risk investment for the pension fund. Many funds have a high risk component. The story alway was that if 1 in 5 worked you made a profit even after writing off the other 4. It’s a bundle of cash for Ipswich, and a very small financial hit for the fund if it doesn’t work. But it not a cash stream. If they don’t succeed this year, or maybe next, the money will dry up quickly.cabbles said:
How does ORG/the pension fund make a return on its investment? I know the club could make money if they reach the Premier League, but how does that equate to an ROI for the fund? Is it going to be similar to the Glazers at Man Utd?Dippenhall said:
The pension fund has not made a direct investment in the club, it is has passed over it would seem about 0.03%, an insignificant part, of its £13bn of assets to a modest US portfolio manager ORG Portfolio Management as a small play on the market to diversify returns with a bit of risk and a higher potential return.AndyG said:
I do find this whole pension investment thing at Ipswich very interesting. I like alot of people have a SIPP and through that own some commercial property. When one of them need some maintenance the pension administrator insists I get 3 quotes for anything I spend from my SIPP. This is slightly annoying as I own a building maintenance company lol, but that is the job of a pension administrator and why I pay them their fees. How on earth has the administrator of that American fund approved investment into a football club in the uk ?Rothko said:
Exactly, very easy to spend Karen from Ohio 401k then your own moneyshine166 said:Can everyone thats saying we are obviously refusing to pay wages, at least acknowledge that TS is spending his own money, while the Ipswich owner is spending the money of others ?
It seems most of the investment will have been to acquire debt and property from Marcus Evans, so mostly fixed rate returns, and probably at tasty rates. That is the attraction for the pension fund.
The 90% equity gives ORG overall control to appoint management and give a windfall if Ipswich get promoted and justify the level of risk being taken. It does not mean there is a gravy train of cash pouring out of the pension fund. It is an arms length investment via ORG and if it goes bad it will just be one of the many small higher risk investments that statistically will go bad for the pension fund.
The pension fund will not be involved in the day to day running of the club, or writing cheques for Paul Cook, that is down to the management team. ORG is 90% shareholder but only has one representative sitting on the board. That is not the set up if you gave the club your magic porridge pot.
The management team calling the shots and spunking money on players are the 3 yanks who own "Three Lions Fund" which has a 5% investment and the CEO who is ex West Brom CEO. If it goes bad these will be the fall guys who ORG will blame for losing money for their client pension fund. ORG is not playing with its own money and it will not throw good money after bad on behalf of its client.
The idea that the pension fund is writing cheques for Paul Cook, or that he has access to an unlimited source of money is fanciful.
Paul Cook has been given the keys to the sweet shop, but when he runs out of sweets and the club is still in League 1 he will be stuffed even if the ultimate owner does have £13bn of assets.
They get the same crowds as us.
Their academy has the same over heads as ours.
Their commercial and TV revenue is the same as us.
Their nonfootball staffing costs are similar to ours.
Despite increased costs you can get a lot closer to break even in the championship.
For a club of a similar size to us a wage bill of about 8 to 10 million a year and revenue in the region of 7 million, in league 1 is about right. Once you factor in all the other costs your looking at a loss of about 9ish million. Plus or minus transfers.
That's probably, more or less, true for about 6 clubs in league 1 this season, who have owners that can cover the loss. Then you have about six more that have significantly smaller fixed costs and over heads, but significantly smaller revenue streams (crowds, commercial etc) but can still pay decent wages and top it up with player sales.
I would suggest before you start every season there are 10-12 clubs who's aim is promotion. Most won't get promoted will have to book the loss and repeat it again next year.
If you work on the basis that most 1st team players at the "big clubs" are on between 4 and 6k a week. Going "all in" and paying all your first team 10k a week would increase your wage bill by about 3 million a year. Ipswich are not paying all their first team 10k a week, or even close in most cases.
You can cover that with one good sale if you don't go up. Someone like Fraser or Pigott, for example.
The clubs who get in big trouble, generally, are the championship clubs that end up paying 30k a week plus, in some cases plus a lot, chasing the premier league.
There is a middle ground to be found in the championship, there isn't in league 1 for a club as big as us and Ipswich.0 -
It absolutely can. I really don't know how people somehow took what was clearly an extravagant and excitable person being extravagant and excitable as some sort of gospel truth or policy pledge.Maccn05 said:
Well picking a list of realistic targets is simple - but never said getting the deals done would.Clarky said:
Trouble is he criticised TS for his "ridiculous claims" and begins this bit of fun with "it's really simple".alburyaddick said:
Obviously getting these deals done is not really simple, however , I think this is a perfectly reasonable tweet and thought process. The top 4 players are all playing in League 1 and will all be on lower wages than we should be able to afford bearing in mind 3 of them play in front of crowds of 5k or less. The loan player will be a Prem loan. Maybe they want to go to the Championship but money there seems even tighter than our League and as we reach the end of the window , its reasonable to assume that prices will fall a bit from those quoted above.
None of us are privy to what Thomas's financial limitations are but I think the basic premise above is a fair one that with the players quoted, all of whom are likely to be available and on 'relatively' low wages we would be building a team for the next 3-4 years and we would have a much greater chance of promotion which brings a stronger financial model.
The claims from TS we’re ridiculous and are proving so, his raising of expectations is a large reason why a big section of the fans are unhappy. That can’t be disputed.
and to be fair I didn’t Criticise him in the post only on here even though. Some people seem to think you can’t be a TS supporter but still disagree with things he does.
If it is "ridiculous" now, it was equally ridiculous then, and if this is true then more fool anyone who took it seriously and now feels daft. Reality is we are in League One in a post-Covid reality and competing against clubs like Sunderland, Wigan and Ipswich (Just as examples) who can at least match us in the market and probably offer more.
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Midfield playmaker, more assists than goals. Not sure why we wouldn’t have enquired about him whilst talking to Crewe about Kirk? Unless we have, it’s a rumour I’ll take it.Rothko said:Lowery is refusing to even negotiate on a new contract isn't he? For those who don't follow players from other clubs, what type of midfielder is he, won't pass the height test will he?2 -
I've seen he's on the smaller side, but seems to be a quick and clever 8/10 type midfielder? Crewe will want to cash out while they can it seemsSouthNorwoodAddick said:
He's the opposite, more Ajose-sizedRothko said:Lowery is refusing to even negotiate on a new contract isn't he? For those who don't follow players from other clubs, what type of midfielder is he, won't pass the height test will he?0 -
Ah yes, just like throughout the summer where we've been overloaded with signings that came without even a rumour.king addick said:
Or....maybe......just maybe.....they are working on things behind the scenes and keeping the cards close to there chest...J BLOCK said:Painfully quite1 -
The rumour is that Gallen is in Crewe again, could be he got the train to MK, fell asleep and ended up in Crewe by accidentRedRobin said:
Midfield playmaker, more assists than goals. Not sure why we wouldn’t have enquired about him whilst talking to Crewe about Kirk? Unless we have, it’s a rumour I’ll take it.Rothko said:Lowery is refusing to even negotiate on a new contract isn't he? For those who don't follow players from other clubs, what type of midfielder is he, won't pass the height test will he?8 -
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Implausible conjecture AND a train reference in the rumour thread.Rothko said:
The rumour is that Gallen is in Crewe again, could be he got the train to MK, fell asleep and ended up in Crewe by accidentRedRobin said:
Midfield playmaker, more assists than goals. Not sure why we wouldn’t have enquired about him whilst talking to Crewe about Kirk? Unless we have, it’s a rumour I’ll take it.Rothko said:Lowery is refusing to even negotiate on a new contract isn't he? For those who don't follow players from other clubs, what type of midfielder is he, won't pass the height test will he?
Played sir!6 -
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He is tiny, when I saw him he reminded me of David Perkins, which is a good thing IMO. I can't think of a Charlton player I would say he was like. Maybe the Morgan we have seen glimpses of?Rothko said:Lowery is refusing to even negotiate on a new contract isn't he? For those who don't follow players from other clubs, what type of midfielder is he, won't pass the height test will he?
He isn't as combative as a Jones, Cullen or Kashi but very tidy and maybe a little more inventive. Maybe a bit like the Ben Watson that played against us, not the one that played for us!1 -
Do we need to know as fans? We have no right to that.J BLOCK said:
Ah yes, just like throughout the summer where we've been overloaded with signings that came without even a rumour.king addick said:
Or....maybe......just maybe.....they are working on things behind the scenes and keeping the cards close to there chest...J BLOCK said:Painfully quite
Id much rather they just got on with it instead of flapping there gums about this and that.
Anyway...even if there was rumour to be shared on here, people are mostly avoiding it because if it doesnt come off they get beasted.
Just support the players we have for now instead of moaning.1 -
In recent years we've gotten into a culture of not trusting smaller or slighter midfielders, both from senior staff and from fans. It does my absolute head in. 'Too lightweight' I keep hearing. Yeah coz we've seen so many huge bastards who've worked bloody wonders in there right4
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No that’s Birmingham Mr Porter 😉Rothko said:
The rumour is that Gallen is in Crewe again, could be he got the train to MK, fell asleep and ended up in Crewe by accidentRedRobin said:
Midfield playmaker, more assists than goals. Not sure why we wouldn’t have enquired about him whilst talking to Crewe about Kirk? Unless we have, it’s a rumour I’ll take it.Rothko said:Lowery is refusing to even negotiate on a new contract isn't he? For those who don't follow players from other clubs, what type of midfielder is he, won't pass the height test will he?1 -
Apparently Gallen wanted to go to Birmingham.8
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That's not really the point.king addick said:
Do we need to know as fans? We have no right to that.J BLOCK said:
Ah yes, just like throughout the summer where we've been overloaded with signings that came without even a rumour.king addick said:
Or....maybe......just maybe.....they are working on things behind the scenes and keeping the cards close to there chest...J BLOCK said:Painfully quite
Id much rather they just got on with it instead of flapping there gums about this and that.
Anyway...even if there was rumour to be shared on here, people are mostly avoiding it because if it doesnt come off they get beasted.
Just support the players we have for now instead of moaning.
The point is that we are 5/6 players short and except the Henderson rumour we have little else. How often have we signed a player totally out of the blue with not one rumour of interest before hand? It can't be many and certainly with the amount of players we need to challenge, I would expect more.
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From 3rd August:
Crewe Alex manager Dave Artell is hoping for a breakthrough in Tommy Lowery’s contract talks but admits to frustration so far.
The 23-year-old midfielder is entering the final year of his current deal and hasn’t been selected for pre-season games because he hasn't signed the new contract.Artell says Lowery has continued to train professionally but there is a disagreement about elements of the offer.
Speaking at this week’s meet-the-fans event at the club, the manager said: “We made an offer to Tom probably ten or 12 weeks ago. He wanted something in the contract, we couldn’t agree to what he asked for. The agent believes that is correct but we have proved through facts from previous transfers out of League One midfielders that it is not the case.”
The manager revealed that he and assistant manager Kenny Lunt had lengthy talks with the midfielder on Monday but the stalemate remains.
Artell says no player is bigger than the club and it’s up to Lowery and his representative to make the next move. He says he fundamentally disagrees with the position taken by the player and his agent.
However, he added: “I am hopeful. Tom is a great bloke. Quite a lot of us call him 'The Smiler' because he is such a bubbly character and I am hopeful there will be an amicable and sensible resolution.
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Only a nanosecond SHG but you snooze you lose 😉ShootersHillGuru said:Apparently Gallen wanted to go to Birmingham.1 -
an amicable and sensible resolution would be to sell him to us. Hopefully Captain will put in a good word.0
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I don't think there was any mention of Clare until the team talk articleJ BLOCK said:
That's not really the point.king addick said:
Do we need to know as fans? We have no right to that.J BLOCK said:
Ah yes, just like throughout the summer where we've been overloaded with signings that came without even a rumour.king addick said:
Or....maybe......just maybe.....they are working on things behind the scenes and keeping the cards close to there chest...J BLOCK said:Painfully quite
Id much rather they just got on with it instead of flapping there gums about this and that.
Anyway...even if there was rumour to be shared on here, people are mostly avoiding it because if it doesnt come off they get beasted.
Just support the players we have for now instead of moaning.
The point is that we are 5/6 players short and except the Henderson rumour we have little else. How often have we signed a player totally out of the blue with not one rumour of interest before hand? It can't be many and certainly with the amount of players we need to challenge, I would expect more.1
This discussion has been closed.
