Trevor kettle is back for the Burton game

Chippycafc said:

Fortune 82nd Minute said:

Serious question. Can the club write to the EFL and just say we do not want this man put in charge of anymore of our games? 

I am sure they can but wont take any notice as its us....Anyone remember that appalling ref we had a few years ago against Peterborough, who capped his performance off by giving a ridiculous penalty in the last minute. We complained and they gave us him again a few weeks later at home.

That was not Kettle. I know he’s poor he it was not him. The culprit was Linnington

Cloudworm said:

Ollywozere said:

The referee's explanation was that there were no fists or elbows thrown, but that both men were sent off for 'excessive grappling'. 
The Famewo booking for the throw-in was described by him as a 'team booking' (making an example of him, I guess?) which now results in him being suspended. 
Make of that what you will. 

I’ve rarely known refs to come out and explain decisions and I don’t think I’ve ever known it in league one.

Where are these quotes from?

Harry Arter.

A booking for the team is usually awarded after a warning, and would be awarded at the next offence. Booking a player at random is not encouraged at any level of refereeing. He also missed their player throwing the ball down the line which actually caused the delay. Basically he made two mistakes in the one incident. There cannot have been much time wasting given the little extra time that was played, and watching the game I had not noticed either side slowing the game down. 

Scoham said:

Cloudworm said:

PragueAddick said:

Cloudworm said:

PragueAddick said:

ForeverAddickted said:

RedRobin said:

I expect both clubs to appeal the red cards and expect both to be rescinded, both should have got yellow cards nothing more. Kettle lost control of that first half and didn’t even see the incident and instead relied on his lino, who got it wrong, comical all round. The bloke is a clown and is up there with Keith Shroud. 

Neither player should have their red card rescinded for being stupid enough to do it in a Trevor Kettle game

We all know his reputation, the Burton commentary team knew of his reputation before the game, and am sure that the Charlton and Burton Management teams warned their players not to take any risks under him.

To be fair he did the right thing by going to his linesman, better to check than to guess - The linesman is then only going to give his assessment over what he's seen, then its up to Kettle to decide on the punishment based on that.

I dont agree with this letting him off the hook because he spoke to the linesman. That assumes the linesman saw things clearly from the get-go, for starters. He spent a long time talking to the linesman before sending off the Nabster too. In that case both the cameras and officials had ( or should have had) a clear view, so its a matter of judgement whether it was so dangerous as to warrant a red. Kettle’s judgement, not the lino’s, but as yesterday he made a big ceremony and implicated the lino in his decision.

Most people who saw the Nabsteŕs foul agreed it should have been only a yellow. Neither the footage from yesterday nor the view of most people in the Charlton end allows for a clear view of what happened. And Kettle himself was not watching, Valley Pass proved that much. In such situations of doubt, so early in the game, yellow should be the default, because refs also have an obligation to the paying customers not to distort what they paid to watch. I doubt that such an obligation has remotely figured in Kettlés thinking.

That's not in the laws, so it shouldn't be. It's a decision based on what any of the four officials have seen. We must assume the linesman saw it clear enough for the decision to be made. 

Of course I know perfectly well that the written law does not and never will have anything to say about when in the game a red can be shown. That is not my point at all.

We all understand that the referee has to exercise his judgement, and it is not easy to get it right. My point was that if he is in doubt, then a red card in the first 20 minutes should be avoided, because they radically change the nature of the game. Yesterday actually had a good open feel about it until that happened. As for "we must assume" the linesman saw it clearly" then again, we are talking about Kettle here. No such assumption is safe to make. I would bet a fair bit of money that he has more early red cards to his name than most if not all the refs on the list. 

Steve Brown, who I think is much more effective in the studio than as co-commentator, was firmly convinced they should have had yellows, and he would have had the chance to see the replays on a decent screen and discuss it with the fellow pros. Although Josh Parker thought Stockley's red was correct. Scotty didnt call it...

He’s a strong ref who applies the laws strictly and in my view, bravely. I like that but I guess you prefer more lenient refs. That’s ok. 

I don’t think he had a choice when two players go at it after 17 minutes like that. Otherwise he gets written up when they do it again 10 minutes later.

As for Steve Brown, he’s only seen what you and I have seen and I disagree that former professionals are necessary good at interpreting the laws of the game. Similar to CL, 99% of them would never have read the rule book, or reffed any games.

We can agree that Brown’s better in the studio. I’d love him to take Terry with him too though!

All the best.

If every ref was like Kettle barely any matches would end with 11 men on each side.

In Six matches with cafc and counting that Trevor two reds Kettle has been the ref, "early baths" have occured.

10 reds with 6 reds for Cafc and 4 reds for opposition.

Did anyone on here sent an abusive email to Kettle when he failed to send off Blizzard of Rovers against Grant Basey ?

Because he went from letting late tackles go to having the red card up his sleeve when he sent Naby Sarr off at the Valley while many drinkers were having a piss after 48 seconds.

RedChaser said:

Cloudworm said:

THought he did well this game. Maybe people are judging him too much on previous games. Maybe could have given Davison a couple of decisions second half, but other than that, really good.

Not sure what plant you dropped on mate when you fell out of the sky but I guess it must have been cannabis. 

The bloke is a card happy plonker who’s first thought is ‘this game is all about me **** the paying public’,**** the fact that the game is only 15 minutes in and the fact that I never saw the incident, let’s get the cards out and teach these prima donnas who’s in charge’. 

The blokes also an A1 C U Next Tuesday, always was and always will be.

Rant Over 😈.

Come on, that's not a thing people say

Kettle makes a rod for his own back. He tries to stamp his authority on the game without using an iota of common sense. Then the pressure is on him to stay consistent. When he isnt, it aggravates players and staff, then tempers flair and good old Trev gets to wave his cards. Its no coincidence that he gets negative reviews from all sides every week.

Billy_Mix said:

Ollywozere said:

The referee's explanation was that there were no fists or elbows thrown, but that both men were sent off for 'excessive grappling'. 
The Famewo booking for the throw-in was described by him as a 'team booking' (making an example of him, I guess?) which now results in him being suspended. 
Make of that what you will. 

If that's genuine, I make of it that Kettle is an egotistical shitforbrains making up the rules as he goes along.
If someone warranted a booking for timewasting, it was Purrington who was the one to slow things up, Akin jogged up to the ball when called to by his colleague.
Kettle is a preening narcissist, despoiling the game, one match at a time.

Starting to see how the media works first hand. ‘If this is true....” + angry rant.

There’s no such thing as a team booking.

No evidence these things were said by Kettle.

Cloudworm said:

Billy_Mix said:

Ollywozere said:

The referee's explanation was that there were no fists or elbows thrown, but that both men were sent off for 'excessive grappling'. 
The Famewo booking for the throw-in was described by him as a 'team booking' (making an example of him, I guess?) which now results in him being suspended. 
Make of that what you will. 

If that's genuine, I make of it that Kettle is an egotistical shitforbrains making up the rules as he goes along.
If someone warranted a booking for timewasting, it was Purrington who was the one to slow things up, Akin jogged up to the ball when called to by his colleague.
Kettle is a preening narcissist, despoiling the game, one match at a time.

Starting to see how the media works first hand. ‘If this is true....” + angry rant.

There’s no such thing as a team booking.

No evidence these things were said by Kettle.

Why do I get the feeling you would defend Kettle’s actions, even if you walked in on him sleeping with your partner and when you went to kick him out - he gave you a red card!

There may not be such a thing but I'm sure we have all seen examples of it.

MuttleyCAFC said:

There may not be such a thing but I'm sure we have all seen examples of it.

There are occasions when a player may get an unlucky booking. For example, if a wall doesn’t retreat, you might have to book the player closest to you, rather than book all four players. It’s never been a ‘team booking ‘ though.

In this case, Purrington probably got a call from Famewo, so Kettle consider him the perpetrator.

Cloudworm said:

thenewbie said:

Cloudworm said:

Billy_Mix said:

Ollywozere said:

The referee's explanation was that there were no fists or elbows thrown, but that both men were sent off for 'excessive grappling'. 
The Famewo booking for the throw-in was described by him as a 'team booking' (making an example of him, I guess?) which now results in him being suspended. 
Make of that what you will. 

If that's genuine, I make of it that Kettle is an egotistical shitforbrains making up the rules as he goes along.
If someone warranted a booking for timewasting, it was Purrington who was the one to slow things up, Akin jogged up to the ball when called to by his colleague.
Kettle is a preening narcissist, despoiling the game, one match at a time.

Starting to see how the media works first hand. ‘If this is true....” + angry rant.

There’s no such thing as a team booking.

No evidence these things were said by Kettle.

Given the original source of the quotes I would be very surprised indeed if they were made up. 

There not actually being any such thing as a "team booking" is a point against Kettle, not in his favour. 

Although there’s no evidence he said it. Someone said it came from Harry Arter, or ‘staff’... all a bit vague, isn’t it.

Erm... No. I'm sure Olly can stand up for himself here and whilst there is obviously a distinction between what he puts here and his "professional" capacity, if he says that is what they were told by Kettle I'd be inclined to believe it.

As far as word of mouth goes, this is pretty much as convincing as it gets. 

thenewbie said:

Cloudworm said:

thenewbie said:

Cloudworm said:

Billy_Mix said:

Ollywozere said:

The referee's explanation was that there were no fists or elbows thrown, but that both men were sent off for 'excessive grappling'. 
The Famewo booking for the throw-in was described by him as a 'team booking' (making an example of him, I guess?) which now results in him being suspended. 
Make of that what you will. 

If that's genuine, I make of it that Kettle is an egotistical shitforbrains making up the rules as he goes along.
If someone warranted a booking for timewasting, it was Purrington who was the one to slow things up, Akin jogged up to the ball when called to by his colleague.
Kettle is a preening narcissist, despoiling the game, one match at a time.

Starting to see how the media works first hand. ‘If this is true....” + angry rant.

There’s no such thing as a team booking.

No evidence these things were said by Kettle.

Given the original source of the quotes I would be very surprised indeed if they were made up. 

There not actually being any such thing as a "team booking" is a point against Kettle, not in his favour. 

Although there’s no evidence he said it. Someone said it came from Harry Arter, or ‘staff’... all a bit vague, isn’t it.

Erm... No. I'm sure Olly can stand up for himself here and whilst there is obviously a distinction between what he puts here and his "professional" capacity, if he says that is what they were told by Kettle I'd be inclined to believe it.

As far as word of mouth goes, this is pretty much as convincing as it gets. 

I’m not questioning anyone’s integrity (I’m probably the only person who’s not, come to think of it!) I’m just saying, Chinese whispers and heresay don’t really mean much. We dealing with rumours on social media. He can say anything really to the players or staff, it’s what’s in his report that counts and I bet it wouldn’t have mentioned “excessive grappling”, or “team booking”. 

Cloudworm said:

thenewbie said:

Cloudworm said:

thenewbie said:

Cloudworm said:

Billy_Mix said:

Ollywozere said:

The referee's explanation was that there were no fists or elbows thrown, but that both men were sent off for 'excessive grappling'. 
The Famewo booking for the throw-in was described by him as a 'team booking' (making an example of him, I guess?) which now results in him being suspended. 
Make of that what you will. 

If that's genuine, I make of it that Kettle is an egotistical shitforbrains making up the rules as he goes along.
If someone warranted a booking for timewasting, it was Purrington who was the one to slow things up, Akin jogged up to the ball when called to by his colleague.
Kettle is a preening narcissist, despoiling the game, one match at a time.

Starting to see how the media works first hand. ‘If this is true....” + angry rant.

There’s no such thing as a team booking.

No evidence these things were said by Kettle.

Given the original source of the quotes I would be very surprised indeed if they were made up. 

There not actually being any such thing as a "team booking" is a point against Kettle, not in his favour. 

Although there’s no evidence he said it. Someone said it came from Harry Arter, or ‘staff’... all a bit vague, isn’t it.

Erm... No. I'm sure Olly can stand up for himself here and whilst there is obviously a distinction between what he puts here and his "professional" capacity, if he says that is what they were told by Kettle I'd be inclined to believe it.

As far as word of mouth goes, this is pretty much as convincing as it gets. 

I’m not questioning anyone’s integrity (I’m probably the only person who’s not, come to think of it!) I’m just saying, Chinese whispers and heresay don’t really mean much. We dealing with rumours on social media. He can say anything really to the players or staff, it’s what’s in his report that counts and I bet it wouldn’t have mentioned “excessive grappling”, or “team booking”. 

If you are saying that what he said and what he writes in his report are very different, then I would suggest that you are questioning his integrity.

PeterGage said:

Addickted said:

Am I the only one who seems to think @Cloudworm is an interloper? All his posts appear to be 'against the flow' of the vast majority and slightly antagonistic.

The old railway thread appears to be a complete Spanner/Nigel piss take, yet quite a few seem to been taken in by it.

Hi Nick. Hope you are keeping well. Anybody (like @Cloudworm) who understands or supports refereeing will inevitable get stick, as indeed I used to when giving the referees perspective on incidents/games: hence me rarely posting these days.

One food for thought - I think we can all agree that the primary (but not sole) role of a ref is to apply the Laws of the Game against any incident that occurs within the duration of that game. It follows therefore that for any spectator to judge (either positively or negatively) a referees overall performance, must know in depth the laws to make that judgement. I for one, didnt know the laws before I took up refereeing and I dont suspect many other judgemental fans on here, or other fans' forums do, so how can they judge?

I do recognise that many fans will have a view on an individual incident, such as the sending off of Stockley on Sat. I get that, but again, is that judgement based the criteria in the laws, which the refs have to follow or is it a natural bias towards ones own players, or in the case of Trevor Kettle, a bias against that particular ref? 

Take care.

With all due respect, if we take the position that the referee never gets it wrong because he/she knows the rules better than supporters, then we are implying and undeserved perfection on them. I am not saying Kettle or any other referee is a cheat, I know he isn't, but he is probably one of the most unpopular refs out there across all clubs. That is probably because how he applies the laws.

I believe the best refs apply common sense, but because some refs don't have a lot of it, the laws get interpreted more rigidly as a means of obtaining consistency. Which is better achieved by better refs. I want the ref to be able to decide intent with a hand ball for instance, rather than all this unnatural position nonsense. Look at the first San Marino penalty conceded penalty against England. Yes it was a penalty because his hand was in the air, but it was in the air in a desperate bid to call for offside and if the shot from Foden was on target, it doesn't hit his hand, which he was trying to get out of the way. This is where things have got to.

The issue fans have with the Stockley sending off is ultimately about common sense. Refs time and time again don't send players off for that and the same with Oshilaja's red. Kettle has a reputation of being card happy compared to other refs and this is why he is criticised and unpopular with many fans, not just ours.