Trevor kettle is back for the Burton game

PeterGage said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

PeterGage said:

Addickted said:

Am I the only one who seems to think @Cloudworm is an interloper? All his posts appear to be 'against the flow' of the vast majority and slightly antagonistic.

The old railway thread appears to be a complete Spanner/Nigel piss take, yet quite a few seem to been taken in by it.

Hi Nick. Hope you are keeping well. Anybody (like @Cloudworm) who understands or supports refereeing will inevitable get stick, as indeed I used to when giving the referees perspective on incidents/games: hence me rarely posting these days.

One food for thought - I think we can all agree that the primary (but not sole) role of a ref is to apply the Laws of the Game against any incident that occurs within the duration of that game. It follows therefore that for any spectator to judge (either positively or negatively) a referees overall performance, must know in depth the laws to make that judgement. I for one, didnt know the laws before I took up refereeing and I dont suspect many other judgemental fans on here, or other fans' forums do, so how can they judge?

I do recognise that many fans will have a view on an individual incident, such as the sending off of Stockley on Sat. I get that, but again, is that judgement based the criteria in the laws, which the refs have to follow or is it a natural bias towards ones own players, or in the case of Trevor Kettle, a bias against that particular ref? 

Take care.

With all due respect, if we take the position that the referee never gets it wrong because he/she knows the rules better than supporters, then we are implying and undeserved perfection on them. I am not saying Kettle or any other referee is a cheat, I know he isn't, but he is probably one of the most unpopular refs out there across all clubs. That is probably because how he applies the laws.

I believe the best refs apply common sense, but because some refs don't have a lot of it, the laws get interpreted more rigidly as a means of obtaining consistency. Which is better achieved by better refs. I want the ref to be able to decide intent with a hand ball for instance, rather than all this unnatural position nonsense. Look at the first San Marino penalty conceded penalty against England. Yes it was a penalty because his hand was in the air, but it was in the air in a desperate bid to call for offside and if the shot from Foden was on target, it doesn't hit his hand, which he was trying to get out of the way. This is where things have got to.

The issue fans have with the Stockley sending off is ultimately about common sense. Refs time and time again don't send players off for that and the same with Oshilaja's red. Kettle has a reputation of being card happy compared to other refs and this is why he is criticised and unpopular with many fans, not just ours.

Due respect accepted.

Of course refs will get things wrong, but I suggest it is not through a lack of knowledge of the Laws of the Game, but due in part to the speed of the game (split second tackles etc) and positional play. How many times have we all (Stockley's incident) had to view the replay a number of times before we give an opinion? 

Trevor K is not my favourite ref, but only because his style is more demonstrative than most. However he must be there on merit because, as we two have discussed in the past: refs are marked by both teams and an independently assessor. At the end of each season, the worse marked refs, along with those whose age has caught up with them, are demoted (exceptionally, some first season rookies may be spared instant demotion). Trevor has been on the list for a number of years, so clubs and assessors must be relatively happy with his performances.

Have a good day

PeterGage said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

PeterGage said:

Addickted said:

Am I the only one who seems to think @Cloudworm is an interloper? All his posts appear to be 'against the flow' of the vast majority and slightly antagonistic.

The old railway thread appears to be a complete Spanner/Nigel piss take, yet quite a few seem to been taken in by it.

Hi Nick. Hope you are keeping well. Anybody (like @Cloudworm) who understands or supports refereeing will inevitable get stick, as indeed I used to when giving the referees perspective on incidents/games: hence me rarely posting these days.

One food for thought - I think we can all agree that the primary (but not sole) role of a ref is to apply the Laws of the Game against any incident that occurs within the duration of that game. It follows therefore that for any spectator to judge (either positively or negatively) a referees overall performance, must know in depth the laws to make that judgement. I for one, didnt know the laws before I took up refereeing and I dont suspect many other judgemental fans on here, or other fans' forums do, so how can they judge?

I do recognise that many fans will have a view on an individual incident, such as the sending off of Stockley on Sat. I get that, but again, is that judgement based the criteria in the laws, which the refs have to follow or is it a natural bias towards ones own players, or in the case of Trevor Kettle, a bias against that particular ref? 

Take care.

With all due respect, if we take the position that the referee never gets it wrong because he/she knows the rules better than supporters, then we are implying and undeserved perfection on them. I am not saying Kettle or any other referee is a cheat, I know he isn't, but he is probably one of the most unpopular refs out there across all clubs. That is probably because how he applies the laws.

I believe the best refs apply common sense, but because some refs don't have a lot of it, the laws get interpreted more rigidly as a means of obtaining consistency. Which is better achieved by better refs. I want the ref to be able to decide intent with a hand ball for instance, rather than all this unnatural position nonsense. Look at the first San Marino penalty conceded penalty against England. Yes it was a penalty because his hand was in the air, but it was in the air in a desperate bid to call for offside and if the shot from Foden was on target, it doesn't hit his hand, which he was trying to get out of the way. This is where things have got to.

The issue fans have with the Stockley sending off is ultimately about common sense. Refs time and time again don't send players off for that and the same with Oshilaja's red. Kettle has a reputation of being card happy compared to other refs and this is why he is criticised and unpopular with many fans, not just ours.

Due respect accepted.

Of course refs will get things wrong, but I suggest it is not through a lack of knowledge of the Laws of the Game, but due in part to the speed of the game (split second tackles etc) and positional play. How many times have we all (Stockley's incident) had to view the replay a number of times before we give an opinion? 

Trevor K is not my favourite ref, but only because his style is more demonstrative than most. However he must be there on merit because, as we two have discussed in the past: refs are marked by both teams and an independently assessor. At the end of each season, the worse marked refs, along with those whose age has caught up with them, are demoted (exceptionally, some first season rookies may be spared instant demotion). Trevor has been on the list for a number of years, so clubs and assessors must be relatively happy with his performances.

Have a good day

Hartleypete said:

PeterGage said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

PeterGage said:

Addickted said:

Am I the only one who seems to think @Cloudworm is an interloper? All his posts appear to be 'against the flow' of the vast majority and slightly antagonistic.

The old railway thread appears to be a complete Spanner/Nigel piss take, yet quite a few seem to been taken in by it.

Hi Nick. Hope you are keeping well. Anybody (like @Cloudworm) who understands or supports refereeing will inevitable get stick, as indeed I used to when giving the referees perspective on incidents/games: hence me rarely posting these days.

One food for thought - I think we can all agree that the primary (but not sole) role of a ref is to apply the Laws of the Game against any incident that occurs within the duration of that game. It follows therefore that for any spectator to judge (either positively or negatively) a referees overall performance, must know in depth the laws to make that judgement. I for one, didnt know the laws before I took up refereeing and I dont suspect many other judgemental fans on here, or other fans' forums do, so how can they judge?

I do recognise that many fans will have a view on an individual incident, such as the sending off of Stockley on Sat. I get that, but again, is that judgement based the criteria in the laws, which the refs have to follow or is it a natural bias towards ones own players, or in the case of Trevor Kettle, a bias against that particular ref? 

Take care.

With all due respect, if we take the position that the referee never gets it wrong because he/she knows the rules better than supporters, then we are implying and undeserved perfection on them. I am not saying Kettle or any other referee is a cheat, I know he isn't, but he is probably one of the most unpopular refs out there across all clubs. That is probably because how he applies the laws.

I believe the best refs apply common sense, but because some refs don't have a lot of it, the laws get interpreted more rigidly as a means of obtaining consistency. Which is better achieved by better refs. I want the ref to be able to decide intent with a hand ball for instance, rather than all this unnatural position nonsense. Look at the first San Marino penalty conceded penalty against England. Yes it was a penalty because his hand was in the air, but it was in the air in a desperate bid to call for offside and if the shot from Foden was on target, it doesn't hit his hand, which he was trying to get out of the way. This is where things have got to.

The issue fans have with the Stockley sending off is ultimately about common sense. Refs time and time again don't send players off for that and the same with Oshilaja's red. Kettle has a reputation of being card happy compared to other refs and this is why he is criticised and unpopular with many fans, not just ours.

Due respect accepted.

Of course refs will get things wrong, but I suggest it is not through a lack of knowledge of the Laws of the Game, but due in part to the speed of the game (split second tackles etc) and positional play. How many times have we all (Stockley's incident) had to view the replay a number of times before we give an opinion? 

Trevor K is not my favourite ref, but only because his style is more demonstrative than most. However he must be there on merit because, as we two have discussed in the past: refs are marked by both teams and an independently assessor. At the end of each season, the worse marked refs, along with those whose age has caught up with them, are demoted (exceptionally, some first season rookies may be spared instant demotion). Trevor has been on the list for a number of years, so clubs and assessors must be relatively happy with his performances.

Have a good day

Out of interest are these marks published?

Cloudworm said:

bobmunro said:

Cloudworm said:

Ollywozere said:

The referee's explanation was that there were no fists or elbows thrown, but that both men were sent off for 'excessive grappling'. 
The Famewo booking for the throw-in was described by him as a 'team booking' (making an example of him, I guess?) which now results in him being suspended. 
Make of that what you will. 

I’ve rarely known refs to come out and explain decisions and I don’t think I’ve ever known it in league one.

Where are these quotes from?

Harry Arter.

Massive pinch of salt then.

Major said:

Cloudworm said:

bobmunro said:

Cloudworm said:

Ollywozere said:

The referee's explanation was that there were no fists or elbows thrown, but that both men were sent off for 'excessive grappling'. 
The Famewo booking for the throw-in was described by him as a 'team booking' (making an example of him, I guess?) which now results in him being suspended. 
Make of that what you will. 

I’ve rarely known refs to come out and explain decisions and I don’t think I’ve ever known it in league one.

Where are these quotes from?

Harry Arter.

Massive pinch of salt then.

Why?

Ollywozere said:

Cloudworm said:

Major said:

Cloudworm said:

bobmunro said:

Cloudworm said:

Ollywozere said:

The referee's explanation was that there were no fists or elbows thrown, but that both men were sent off for 'excessive grappling'. 
The Famewo booking for the throw-in was described by him as a 'team booking' (making an example of him, I guess?) which now results in him being suspended. 
Make of that what you will. 

I’ve rarely known refs to come out and explain decisions and I don’t think I’ve ever known it in league one.

Where are these quotes from?

Harry Arter.

Massive pinch of salt then.

Why?

I'd suggest it may have come out of a heated exchange at half time, for which Arter was booked and therefore maybe quite angry and/or emotional. In addition, how many people have passed this down the chain until it's ended up on social media? Just doesn't strike me as reliable. I'm not saying things are twisted intentionally, but things do tend to get twisted.

I can assure you that isn’t the case. 

JohnnyH2 said:

PragueAddick said:

ForeverAddickted said:

RedRobin said:

I expect both clubs to appeal the red cards and expect both to be rescinded, both should have got yellow cards nothing more. Kettle lost control of that first half and didn’t even see the incident and instead relied on his lino, who got it wrong, comical all round. The bloke is a clown and is up there with Keith Shroud. 

Neither player should have their red card rescinded for being stupid enough to do it in a Trevor Kettle game

We all know his reputation, the Burton commentary team knew of his reputation before the game, and am sure that the Charlton and Burton Management teams warned their players not to take any risks under him.

To be fair he did the right thing by going to his linesman, better to check than to guess - The linesman is then only going to give his assessment over what he's seen, then its up to Kettle to decide on the punishment based on that.

I dont agree with this letting him off the hook because he spoke to the linesman. That assumes the linesman saw things clearly from the get-go, for starters. He spent a long time talking to the linesman before sending off the Nabster too. In that case both the cameras and officials had ( or should have had) a clear view, so its a matter of judgement whether it was so dangerous as to warrant a red. Kettle’s judgement, not the lino’s, but as yesterday he made a big ceremony and implicated the lino in his decision.

Most people who saw the Nabsteŕs foul agreed it should have been only a yellow. Neither the footage from yesterday nor the view of most people in the Charlton end allows for a clear view of what happened. And Kettle himself was not watching, Valley Pass proved that much. In such situations of doubt, so early in the game, yellow should be the default, because refs also have an obligation to the paying customers not to distort what they paid to watch. I doubt that such an obligation has remotely figured in Kettlés thinking.

https://youtu.be/4cYQf9FJSW8

Naby Street Red Card, out of control over the top. Laws of the game make no allowance when a challenge can be differently treated when they occur in the game. The same ref quote rightly was lambasted for not sending off Blizzard for the challenge on Basey in the fist minute. Although this does not have the same intent its still classed in the same bracket of Red Card

objectivecafc said:

https://www.staffordshire-live.co.uk/sport/football/how-trevor-kettle-makes-fans-6222285

Cloudworm said:

lordromford said:

objectivecafc said:

https://www.staffordshire-live.co.uk/sport/football/how-trevor-kettle-makes-fans-6222285

The author of that seems quite annoyed by Kane Hemmings getting a yellow for diving - he thinks McGillivray took him out. 

I don’t remember this incident - is he right? Did we get away with one?

100 people would watch it and be 52% 48%. Does it really matter? The ref’s there to make decisions and players and managers should respect the fact they do their honest best but sometimes make mistakes. I’m sure the writer has never been in the middle and has probably never even read the ‘rules’.