P&O sack/make redundant 800 staff on the spot

rina said:

RickAddick said:

Dansk_Red said:

I understand the agency workers are hired on the following terms. 12hour shift aboard ship, then 12hours off in a french hotel, on an 8week on and 8weeks off basis.

Wonder what their living arrangements are during the 8 weeks off?
A doorway in Calais, perhaps?
Would these hours break UK employment laws?
I thought there was a requirement to have at least one day off in 14?
Eight weeks of continual shift work seeks excessive and probably not very safe...

Sea transport is specifically excluded from the rules on rest breaks

Sea transport is not specifically excluded from hours at work, there are clear regulations on hours at work and rest. 

Saga Lout said:

This is capitalism in all it's raw glory, but this is what the British public consistently vote for. 

Yes I imagine communism would be much better for all.

Dazzler21 said:

Saga Lout said:

This is capitalism in all it's raw glory, but this is what the British public consistently vote for. 

Yes I imagine communism would be much better for all.

Or maybe a less raw form of capitalism.

Dazzler21 said:

Saga Lout said:

This is capitalism in all it's raw glory, but this is what the British public consistently vote for. 

Yes I imagine communism would be much better for all.

???? 

DA9 said:

thenewbie said:

RickAddick said:

Surprised at Shapps' response to the redundancies, I would have anticipated the government to claim it was a matter for P&O to manage as a private company, perhaps with a few weasel words noting the impact on the staff affected. Job done.
Tory governments have rarely shown concern where employment conditions have been downgraded and much of the privatisation 'benefit' is based on savings from reduced employment costs.
I wonder how much of the rest of UK shipping will be impacted by requiring the UK minimum wage to be applied?
Perhaps the government is sensitive to the movement of cross Channel freight post Brexit, particularly on the Dover crossings, and sees a big risk with the proposed changes to the P&O operation?

I doubt its anything quite so moral, just a government/minister seeing an opportunity for a quick and easy PR win. 

Damned if they, damned if they don’t 

It seems a little unlikely that the current Government has now become a champion of workers rights. Maybe they've suddenly changed...

Stu_of_Kunming said:

Dazzler21 said:

Saga Lout said:

This is capitalism in all it's raw glory, but this is what the British public consistently vote for. 

Yes I imagine communism would be much better for all.

Quite hard to argue that actual communism wouldn’t be better for the vast majority. Sadly it’s never been tried. 

Just to say, I never suggested communism. Let's not derail this thread though, it's about 800 British workers who have been monumentally shafted.

MuttleyCAFC said:

Serious question. Why has P&O not fired any of its French staff?

Probably because the French unions are more together than ours,if French workers had been sacked,the whole of Calais etc.would have been bought to a standstill,other ferry companies staff would have come out and really had an effect on the cross channel business.It appears the PO workers have not been supported by their brothers.

RickAddick said:

Surprised at Shapps' response to the redundancies, I would have anticipated the government to claim it was a matter for P&O to manage as a private company, perhaps with a few weasel words noting the impact on the staff affected. Job done.
Tory governments have rarely shown concern where employment conditions have been downgraded and much of the privatisation 'benefit' is based on savings from reduced employment costs.
I wonder how much of the rest of UK shipping will be impacted by requiring the UK minimum wage to be applied?
Perhaps the government is sensitive to the movement of cross Channel freight post Brexit, particularly on the Dover crossings, and sees a big risk with the proposed changes to the P&O operation?

Unless I am mistaken, the Conservative's fantastic strategy to resolve this issue and get everyone their jobs back is to make P and O pay minimum wage?

It must be a tories wet dream to have people patting them on the back for actually agreeing to pay people the actual minimum wage, as if that is some sort of accomplishment or heroic gesture.

Just imagine for a minute as an employee of P and O:

- You are sacked from your job immediately with no notice via a pre recorded video
- You are marched off the ship by private security hired by your employers and who are carrying handcuffs
- As you walk off the ship there are bus loads of agency staff ready to take your job at less than half the pay 

Two weeks later the government  says P and O have to pay minimum wage and they think all those laid off are going to be sat eagerly waiting the opportunity to return to said employer who has treated them so shabbily?

Oh and the extra incentive is they get to return on what for most will be less than  half of what they earnt before.

No doubt when those staff think that's a bit of a raw deal and turn it down there'll be labelled as work shy by the government who will wash their hands of them.

thickandthin63 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Serious question. Why has P&O not fired any of its French staff?

Probably because the French unions are more together than ours,if French workers had been sacked,the whole of Calais etc.would have been bought to a standstill,other ferry companies staff would have come out and really had an effect on the cross channel business.It appears the PO workers have not been supported by their brothers.

To be fair, a lot of them are in the RMT which is probably * the only union that will fight for its members. They are however, hamstrung by any solidarity action being illegal in this country. So, dockers or port workers refusing to work with a ship full of scabs is legal in France, but not in England. And the government are itching for a reason to further clamp down on the RMT. The UK has some of the most restrictive anti-union laws in the world, it's not just down the the incompetence of the union hierarchies.

* I realise there are individual branches of other unions that will, as well as the small unions like IWGB, UVW, CAIWU. 

So yesterday P&O announce they'll be starting the Dover/Calais and (Hull/Rotterdam) routes back up today. Today they announce that all services are cancelled until at least Monday.

If you can then avoid most of Kent's roads, going to be absolute carnage this weekend.

clive said:

Another P&O Ferries vessel has been detained after inspectors found a "number of deficiencies", the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) confirmed.

The Spirit of Britain ship cannot set sail until the issues have been addressed, and surveyors said they did not know when this would happen.

The detention casts doubt on the ability of P&O Ferries to resume its Dover operations before Easter weekend.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61086897

The Spirit of Britain does indeed have a number of deficiencies at the moment! 

RickAddick said:

These safety checks seem to be taking a long time and I wonder whether P&O properly considered the need and time required to get their fleet recertificated prior to sacking the 800. Initially we were told sailings would be cancelled for a few days. The time line suggested it was intended to sack the 800 and have the fleet back in service for the Easter rush.
Are the delays in recertification due to cutbacks in staffing levels in the MCA?
I wonder if there has been any ministerial pressure to 'get ships sailing', noting that daily pictures of the Brock lorry queues on the M20 and resultant pressure on industry isn't a good look for the government?
Where has the government's legal challenge on P&O got to?

I feel the opposite, I wonder if they’re getting additional scrutiny from the authorities due to the disgraceful actions taken a few weeks ago. My concern is whether these ships would have sailed without these “deficiencies” being identified had it not been for what went on. 

se9addick said:

RickAddick said:

These safety checks seem to be taking a long time and I wonder whether P&O properly considered the need and time required to get their fleet recertificated prior to sacking the 800. Initially we were told sailings would be cancelled for a few days. The time line suggested it was intended to sack the 800 and have the fleet back in service for the Easter rush.
Are the delays in recertification due to cutbacks in staffing levels in the MCA?
I wonder if there has been any ministerial pressure to 'get ships sailing', noting that daily pictures of the Brock lorry queues on the M20 and resultant pressure on industry isn't a good look for the government?
Where has the government's legal challenge on P&O got to?

I feel the opposite, I wonder if they’re getting additional scrutiny from the authorities due to the disgraceful actions taken a few weeks ago. My concern is whether these ships would have sailed without these “deficiencies” being identified had it not been for what went on. 

I can understand the MCA wanting to be very certain the new arrangements are sound before signing off the certificate and credit to them if they are being ultra cautious. 
But I wouldn't be surprised if the responsible minister is expecting very frequent updates on progress and tempted to tell the MCA to hurry up. He won't be the one carrying the responsibility if there are any safety related incidents following recertification, but the continuing delay isn't making his Operation Brock plan look any better either.