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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

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  • Fumbluff said:
    Is that with the barrier down?
    The original design life of the barrier was until 2030. It is now said it is good until 2070 (when it will be nearly 100 years old). Meanwhile it has already had to operate many more times than envisaged. Some suggest it is inevitable that it will fail, perhaps sooner rather than later.
  • clb74 said:
    Mediocre.
    You're digging out our support?
    How many season tickets did you expect us to sell this season after the last few seasons weve had?
    How many fans did we have up at Bolton Saturday?
    Over the previous years what sort of numbers have we taken to Bolton?
    After the last half a dozen seasons weve had and still 8000 season tickets sold as well as taking over 600 to Bolton you're saying our support is mediocre.
    I'm not having it
    I’m not having a pop at our support, since late 70s upto pl years our support wasn’t very good; I appreciate selhurst & Upton pk played a massive part but even when we returned yes we sold out but it was a limited capacity; then in pl yes we sold out most seasons but as with a lot of clubs once we went down those extra supporters drifted away; and now we’re back with our hard core. I agree with millwallfan that because of pl years some of our supporters think we have thousands of fans ready to come back; which I don’t think we have
  • You’ve basically just described mediocre in one post. (Mediocre isn’t bad by the way. It just means middle of the road, average, which is pretty much how most neutrals would describe charlton. Not a small club, but not a big one either). 

    Taking Bolton as an example, seeing as you mention them. They’ve had a pretty rough 10 or so years as well and was only in administration in 2019. They sold over 13,000 season tickets for this season (they had 19,000 there v you lot) and will probably bring double to the valley that you took to them on Saturday. 
    It was £5 to get in for adults.
    Obviously with the trains fooked most of us didn't bother.
  • Smithy said:
    How is 600 to Bolton anything other than mediocre? 
    Come on , they were expensive tickets and Pompey would never have taken that many 🤥
  • You’ve basically just described mediocre in one post. (Mediocre isn’t bad by the way. It just means middle of the road, average, which is pretty much how most neutrals would describe charlton. Not a small club, but not a big one either). 

    Taking Bolton as an example, seeing as you mention them. They’ve had a pretty rough 10 or so years as well and was only in administration in 2019. They sold over 13,000 season tickets for this season (they had 19,000 there v you lot) and will probably bring double to the valley that you took to them on Saturday. 
    All northern clubs London away followings are boosted by their very active local branches. Charlton do not have as many fans living up north as the likes of Barnsley and Bolton have in the capital.

    It is the filling of the away ends every week which would be one of the benefits of promotion to the Championship.
  • JamesSeed said:
    I know you’re not having a dig, but it almost sounds like you’re having a dig :-)
    I think one issue is that there is a generation of Charlton fans who experienced the Premier League years, and it’s hard to maintain morale when stuck in a third division that’s not easy to escape from, especially when we’ve not had decent owners for such a long time. It’s human nature, rather than entitlement I think. 
    A club’s history plays a part in how big a club is seen to be, and our history isn’t too shabby. But unless we find an owner as willing to invest as yours has done, or Sandgaard changes his strategy, it’s hard to see a way out of our current ‘mediocre’ situation. If we do find a way, then I can see our gates improving at the same time as our status. 
    Glad it wasn’t taken as a dig because it genuinely wasn’t meant as one. Just think some of your fans need a sense of perspective. But to be honest, I thought I was going to get pelters for posting that and I didn’t, so maybe it’s less fans than I thought. 
  • It was £5 to get in for adults.
    Obviously with the trains fooked most of us didn't bother.
    We took over 1200 to Norwich recently for a Friday night televised game and a train strike was on, and we’re only little old Smallwall 😉
  • We took over 1200 to Norwich recently for a Friday night televised game and a train strike was on, and we’re only little old Smallwall Millwank 😉

     
  • We took over 1200 to Norwich recently for a Friday night televised game and a train strike was on, and we’re only little old Smallwall 😉
    Yeah, not bad, I think we may have taken similar numbers, some staying overnight/for the weekend & obviously a shorter more pleasant drive than to the wastelands of the north.
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  • The only way for an owner of our club to make money on owning us is to get us into the premier league. Stadium or no stadium it is essentially an all or nothing gamble on doing that. If someone has £50m to gamble on it they are better off doing it without a stadium and spending that money on the team tbh.

    My assumption was this was sandgaards plan.. fund 5 years of losses and spend enough to move up the divisions but I don't actually believe he is wealthy enough to do that without bankrupting himself. The talk of break even so soon is disappointing and only points to a man wanting to get out tbh. Let's hope he sells to proper gambler with deep pockets and not a bunch of crooks.
  • He has a son that can take over.

    If he's wise, then he wouldn't want to get involved. 

    Take the money and enjoy the millions 
  • Lewis Coaches said: The club have to re-apply and when we spoke with TS in early August he was unsure whether to or not. It takes a while for the assessment / decision so is that what you mean re May? 
    Charlton had failed to gain Cat 1 this season and the next time charlton can apply is next May 2023. That’s how I understood it.
    I had spoken to Thomas about this in July.
  • Yeah, not bad, I think we may have taken similar numbers, some staying overnight/for the weekend & obviously a shorter more pleasant drive than to the wastelands of the north.
    I reckon it would have been well below a thousand if the game was on TV and a train strike 
  • Charlton had failed to gain Cat 1 this season and the next time charlton can apply is next May 2023. That’s how I understood it.
    I had spoken to Thomas about this in July.
    I understood from him that the window to apply is sooner than that but we did not discuss the exact timing.
  • Perhaps, @Millwallfan, you could copy this across to the 'Quotes from the Charlton No Life' Forum' thread on Millwall online/North Stand Banter?

    Many Millwall posters don't seem to appreciate that 'The Trainspotters' are a bigger club!

    Clarity from one of their own 'Lions' would help to clear up this unfortunate misunderstanding...
    Note the word ‘slightly’ 😉
  • I’m not having a pop at our support, since late 70s upto pl years our support wasn’t very good; I appreciate selhurst & Upton pk played a massive part but even when we returned yes we sold out but it was a limited capacity; then in pl yes we sold out most seasons but as with a lot of clubs once we went down those extra supporters drifted away; and now we’re back with our hard core. I agree with millwallfan that because of pl years some of our supporters think we have thousands of fans ready to come back; which I don’t think we have
    And yet when we made it to the PL we sold out, from a previous low average attendance. So no reason why the same wouldn’t/couldn’t happen again, not necessarily just with old fans returning, but with a mixture of new fans, those wanting to watch Premier League football, and some whose families has always ‘been Charlton’ returning to the fold (fairweathers). 
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  • edited September 2022
    Glad it wasn’t taken as a dig because it genuinely wasn’t meant as one. Just think some of your fans need a sense of perspective. But to be honest, I thought I was going to get pelters for posting that and I didn’t, so maybe it’s less fans than I thought. 
    [Anyone else having anOCD moment here?]

    Yes, currently you’re a more successful, much better run club than we are, and your future is far more secure than ours. It’s only historically, and potentially, that we are a (slightly?) bigger club than you, I guess.
    We have more important things to worry about right now though. Mind you, we all do. 
  • edited September 2022
    I’m not having a pop at our support, since late 70s upto pl years our support wasn’t very good; I appreciate selhurst & Upton pk played a massive part but even when we returned yes we sold out but it was a limited capacity; then in pl yes we sold out most seasons but as with a lot of clubs once we went down those extra supporters drifted away; and now we’re back with our hard core. I agree with millwallfan that because of pl years some of our supporters think we have thousands of fans ready to come back; which I don’t think we have
    The fans will come in the same way that they did when we got promoted to the Premier League. The only thing is, a lot of them are not fans yet. But the house building locally gives us even more untapped potential than we had then. Then if you look below us geographically, we have only Gillingham to compete with. Something Millwall will never have but of course we need somebody who can tap it for it to mean anything.
  • The fans will come in the same way that they did when we got promoted to the Premier League. The only thing is, a lot of them are not fans yet. But the house building locally gives us even more untapped potential than we had then. Then if you look below us geographically, we have only Gillingham to compete with. Something Millwall will never have but of course we need somebody who can tap it for it to mean anything.
    I’ve always looked out for these houses at matches. Never seen one yet!
  • Maybe they have been built away from your daily route :)
  • How do we move forwards from this situation so we are in a positive situation in say (the magic) 5 years @Airman Brown
  • academy products bear fruit perhaps, sales and or shrewd transfer business, luck..?
  • But what happens if Sandgaard - who is an unusual character - doesn’t appear on the scene. In all likelihood the club goes into administration and the £7m falls on Roland. Unlike others I am confident that the club gets picked up from admin and RD then has to deal with the new owners - or not - on realistic terms. He doesn’t get to develop the ground to recoup his losses so it’s up to him if he prefers no deal.

    This is why some of us came to believe admin was an option in 2020. Literally dozens of league clubs have entered into it since the 1980s and all have survived, most without the need for phoenix clubs. No club of Charlton’s size has ever had to go down that route.

    The main unprotected creditor was Roland bloody Duchatelet. Why would we want to protect him?

    i am not saying it was a good option, just that it may prove to have been the least worst. It is complicated by the stadium split but that’s not a unique issue. Talk of “oblivion” is overstated when you had multiple parties willing to pay tens of millions to acquire the club.

    Now accepting the above came with a risk, of whatever scale you choose to believe, you can argue Sandgaard removed it. But he has not resolved the problem. The club is much less likely to go into administration under him than ESI because he is the main creditor, so arguably his ownership, while well intended, has made the strategic position worse.

    The ESI deal was not a secure one for RD - I agree he is in a better position with TS. But is the latter’s deal any good for the club? 

    Apologies for banging on about Admin and I know its academic now, but ESI would have run out of money, say October time, at which point would they have either placed us into Admin by choice, or been forced to and I'm not sure whose decision that would have been, Roland being the main Creditor owed his £50M, within 2years was it? I forget.

    Pulling a Club out of Administration is a different proposition to what Thomas did, but as Roland held title to the Valley and Sparrows Lane, Andrew Barclay or A.N. Other would still have had to contend with buying that off him at an unrealistic price. So without Thomas, it's still unlikely we'd have had Barclay running the show now.

    It might however have been some individual/consortium prepared to pay silly money to Roland, or failing that, prepared to take on the running of the Club stripped of assets, including the better players who'd probably have to be sold off during the Administration Process, in which case it's arguable whether we'd be better off now. We finished seventh, but with a weakened squad and a points deduction, we might have had a very grim season.

    Does that look about right to you? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Roland Out Forever!