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Holden sacked?! (Ed. Yes - Confirmed)

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  • shirty5
    shirty5 Posts: 19,223
    Redhenry said:
    I couldn't put up with any more of the set pieces. But what a nice man
    Is that not Hayes’s job the set pieces? 
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    North Lower Neil said:
    seth plum said:
    Is that thing above Dean Holden praising Jason Pearce, or Jason Pearce saying he was a proud man on Saturday?
    At my age I find those kinds of posts incomprehensible.
    Nothing is obvious.
    Both.

    Pearce posted the proud one, Holden quoted him and said great work Jason.
    Concinnity.
  • thai malaysia addick
    thai malaysia addick Posts: 18,334
    Now, we know why he was sacked - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66727873
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,846
    thai malaysia addick said:
    Now, we know why he was sacked - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66727873
    Dean Holden railway station announcer #propercharlton
  • Fanny Fanackapan
    Fanny Fanackapan Posts: 18,738
    shirty5 said:
    Redhenry said:
    I couldn't put up with any more of the set pieces. But what a nice man
    Is that not Hayes’s job the set pieces? 
    Might help if he removed that cardigan when demonstrating what he wants...

    Always going to be holden him back.
  • thai malaysia addick
    thai malaysia addick Posts: 18,334
    Fanny Fanackapan said:
    shirty5 said:
    Redhenry said:
    I couldn't put up with any more of the set pieces. But what a nice man
    Is that not Hayes’s job the set pieces? 
    Might help if he removed that cardigan when demonstrating what he wants...

    Always going to be holden him back.
    Oh dear, I almost let out a groan there and I thought I made some excruciating puns.
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,764
    edited September 2023
    Thought this was insightful from the Fans Forum minutes. Certainly a lot more detailed answer than I had anticipated.

    AS - Andy Scott
    JR - Jim Rodwell

    HA - Heather Alderson (CAST)
    CL - Christine Lawrie (Reminiscence Group)
    JP - John Perkins (Valley Express)
    LL - Lars Liljegren (Swedish Addicks)



  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    ‘Noticed a change’ ?
    Can mean anything can’t it?
    Noticed the results would seem to be more comprehensible.
  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,001
    seth plum said:
    ‘Noticed a change’ ?
    Can mean anything can’t it?
    Noticed the results would seem to be more comprehensible.
    Well of course it would but that just raises the question of why the results changed so it is not actually as simple as that
  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 32,561
    I reckon it was the fact he didn’t recognise he needed help and maybe from an older head that did for him. I’d suggested a number of times that he needed to bring in someone who had been there, done it, bought the tee shirt. Instead he was working with those already at the club.
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  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,222
    LargeAddick said:
    I reckon it was the fact he didn’t recognise he needed help and maybe from an older head that did for him. I’d suggested a number of times that he needed to bring in someone who had been there, done it, bought the tee shirt. Instead he was working with those already at the club.
    He was offered Chris Powell as a mentor and said no. TBH, much as I respect SCP I can see why DH would baulk at having someone imposed above him.

    But I agree he need a wiser, older head alongside him of his own choice.

    He also needed some of the luck that MA is getting with injuries (Aneke, Leaburn) and the new signings earlier.
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,459
    Henry Irving said:
    LargeAddick said:
    I reckon it was the fact he didn’t recognise he needed help and maybe from an older head that did for him. I’d suggested a number of times that he needed to bring in someone who had been there, done it, bought the tee shirt. Instead he was working with those already at the club.
    He was offered Chris Powell as a mentor and said no. TBH, much as I respect SCP I can see why DH would baulk at having someone imposed above him.

    But I agree he need a wiser, older head alongside him of his own choice.

    He also needed some of the luck that MA is getting with injuries (Aneke, Leaburn) and the new signings earlier.
     Was that before actually asking CP?
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,222
    I believe CP was sounded out first for a mentor role and then, when it was decided to sack DH, for a role as manager 
  • Ferryman
    Ferryman Posts: 2,921
    JohnnyH2 said:

    What minute iss our bit? The rest was agony!
  • Ferryman
    Ferryman Posts: 2,921
    Ferryman said:
    JohnnyH2 said:

    What minute iss our bit? The rest was agony!
    Seen it now.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    Eugh Mike Graham 🙁
  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,001
    LargeAddick said:
    I reckon it was the fact he didn’t recognise he needed help and maybe from an older head that did for him. I’d suggested a number of times that he needed to bring in someone who had been there, done it, bought the tee shirt. Instead he was working with those already at the club.
    Possibly where someone cracked open their thesaurus and put "collegiate" onto the job spec...
  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,883
    Henry Irving said:
    LargeAddick said:
    I reckon it was the fact he didn’t recognise he needed help and maybe from an older head that did for him. I’d suggested a number of times that he needed to bring in someone who had been there, done it, bought the tee shirt. Instead he was working with those already at the club.
    He was offered Chris Powell as a mentor and said no. TBH, much as I respect SCP I can see why DH would baulk at having someone imposed above him.

    But I agree he need a wiser, older head alongside him of his own choice.

    He also needed some of the luck that MA is getting with injuries (Aneke, Leaburn) and the new signings earlier.
    Do you know if Holden suggested an alternative or was it a case of powell being offered, Holden saying no and that was the end of the conversation 
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,222
    Todds_right_hook said:
    Henry Irving said:
    LargeAddick said:
    I reckon it was the fact he didn’t recognise he needed help and maybe from an older head that did for him. I’d suggested a number of times that he needed to bring in someone who had been there, done it, bought the tee shirt. Instead he was working with those already at the club.
    He was offered Chris Powell as a mentor and said no. TBH, much as I respect SCP I can see why DH would baulk at having someone imposed above him.

    But I agree he need a wiser, older head alongside him of his own choice.

    He also needed some of the luck that MA is getting with injuries (Aneke, Leaburn) and the new signings earlier.
    Do you know if Holden suggested an alternative or was it a case of powell being offered, Holden saying no and that was the end of the conversation 
    Sorry, don't know the answer to that.
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,459
    Powell as his number 2! That would have been like a turkey voting for Christmas.
    The very moment he started to slip the fans would have been calling for his head in the hope of getting his number 2 instated.
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  • Richard J
    Richard J Posts: 8,032
    It's interesting when you look back on successful management teams when sometimes the more experienced man is the number 2.

    A good example of this for Charlton was when Benny Fenton mentored Mike Bailey in 1980/81. In retrospect I am sure Benny would have played a key role. It is a shame that we couldn't find a similar scenario for Deano.

    That said, I think Appleton is an upgrade.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    I wonder if when they said they noticed a change in Holden, if it wasn't about results maybe it was the way he was dressed. He was wearing a different outfit for the Oxford game.
    I would be surprised if the billionaires had a dress code for Appleton.
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,955
    seth plum said:
    I wonder if when they said they noticed a change in Holden, if it wasn't about results maybe it was the way he was dressed. He was wearing a different outfit for the Oxford game.
    I would be surprised if the billionaires had a dress code for Appleton.
    It seems pretty obvious to me that Holden wanted to do things differently to Scott's way - and if the results had been there with a great start, Scott would've turned a blind eye: 'if it's not broke, don't fix it'.

    But it was broken and getting worse.

    Something had to be done to arrest the slide. And it was.



  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Oggy Red said:
    seth plum said:
    I wonder if when they said they noticed a change in Holden, if it wasn't about results maybe it was the way he was dressed. He was wearing a different outfit for the Oxford game.
    I would be surprised if the billionaires had a dress code for Appleton.
    It seems pretty obvious to me that Holden wanted to do things differently to Scott's way - and if the results had been there with a great start, Scott would've turned a blind eye: 'if it's not broke, don't fix it'.

    But it was broken and getting worse.

    Something had to be done to arrest the slide. And it was.



    I agree with you that something needed to happen.
    The results were very bad, and this regime are supposedly to be judged by results.
  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,001
    seth plum said:
    I wonder if when they said they noticed a change in Holden, if it wasn't about results maybe it was the way he was dressed. He was wearing a different outfit for the Oxford game.
    I would be surprised if the billionaires had a dress code for Appleton.

  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Oggy Red said:
    seth plum said:
    I wonder if when they said they noticed a change in Holden, if it wasn't about results maybe it was the way he was dressed. He was wearing a different outfit for the Oxford game.
    I would be surprised if the billionaires had a dress code for Appleton.
    It seems pretty obvious to me that Holden wanted to do things differently to Scott's way - and if the results had been there with a great start, Scott would've turned a blind eye: 'if it's not broke, don't fix it'.

    But it was broken and getting worse.

    Something had to be done to arrest the slide. And it was.



    It's funny how Holden, Adkins and Garner all went a bit loopy when it became clear they didn't get what they wanted or were promised.
  • sam3110
    sam3110 Posts: 21,266
    Did Holden not get what he was promised then? Sounds more like they offered him extra help and he turned it down, and instead he wasn't delivering on what he promised, and got the sack for it
  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,883
    Henry Irving said:
    Todds_right_hook said:
    Henry Irving said:
    LargeAddick said:
    I reckon it was the fact he didn’t recognise he needed help and maybe from an older head that did for him. I’d suggested a number of times that he needed to bring in someone who had been there, done it, bought the tee shirt. Instead he was working with those already at the club.
    He was offered Chris Powell as a mentor and said no. TBH, much as I respect SCP I can see why DH would baulk at having someone imposed above him.

    But I agree he need a wiser, older head alongside him of his own choice.

    He also needed some of the luck that MA is getting with injuries (Aneke, Leaburn) and the new signings earlier.
    Do you know if Holden suggested an alternative or was it a case of powell being offered, Holden saying no and that was the end of the conversation 
    Sorry, don't know the answer to that.
    Shame, I had a word with the mods and a promote was heading your way
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    edited September 2023
    sam3110 said:
    Did Holden not get what he was promised then? Sounds more like they offered him extra help and he turned it down, and instead he wasn't delivering on what he promised, and got the sack for it
    Look at the squad we had at the start of the season.  None of them helped themselves but...
  • sam3110
    sam3110 Posts: 21,266
    Cafc43v3r said:
    sam3110 said:
    Did Holden not get what he was promised then? Sounds more like they offered him extra help and he turned it down, and instead he wasn't delivering on what he promised, and got the sack for it
    Look at the squad we had at the start of the season.  None of them helped themselves but...
    Not like we held out til he was sacked to sign 10 players is it? The crux of the squad was the same, and injuries aren't the fault of Scott and the owners or Holden.

    To suggest he was acting up because he didn't get the players he wanted is a red herring, he paid the price for the worst start in the third tier Charlton have endured

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