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Holden sacked?! (Ed. Yes - Confirmed)
Comments
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Exactly! The team he put out at Oxford shows that he had no idea on what team or formation to play. He lost it and paid the price.sam3110 said:
Not like we held out til he was sacked to sign 10 players is it? The crux of the squad was the same, and injuries aren't the fault of Scott and the owners or Holden.Cafc43v3r said:
Look at the squad we had at the start of the season. None of them helped themselves but...sam3110 said:Did Holden not get what he was promised then? Sounds more like they offered him extra help and he turned it down, and instead he wasn't delivering on what he promised, and got the sack for it
To suggest he was acting up because he didn't get the players he wanted is a red herring, he paid the price for the worst start in the third tier Charlton have enduredYes he had players out but his tactics and substitutions were poor0 -
It was obviously his plan to play 3-5-2 with a partner for May, that’s why we signed him. He was never given the opportunity to actually do it though as we never had a proper partner before he was sacked.sam3110 said:
Not like we held out til he was sacked to sign 10 players is it? The crux of the squad was the same, and injuries aren't the fault of Scott and the owners or Holden.Cafc43v3r said:
Look at the squad we had at the start of the season. None of them helped themselves but...sam3110 said:Did Holden not get what he was promised then? Sounds more like they offered him extra help and he turned it down, and instead he wasn't delivering on what he promised, and got the sack for it
To suggest he was acting up because he didn't get the players he wanted is a red herring, he paid the price for the worst start in the third tier Charlton have endured
That’s why we often changed formations, or looked like he didn’t know his best team or set up. He didn’t have the striker to set up how he planned to from day 1 of pre-seasonI don’t think sacking him was wrong, we were very naive defensively and that Oxford winner summed it up. But what I don’t get is why we didn’t hire a replacement with a similar plan, to give May a partner and get the best out of our high profile signing2 -
I didn't expect it from Dean (and his straight talking), but did he turn us into a soft touch?0
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Apparently the players are working much harder in training now than they were previously. A few had taken their foot off the gas as Holden was too much of a "mate" or a nice guy.
Appleton has his way of doing things and it's slightly different to the Holden approach shall we say20 -
I’ve noticed it in CBT. He seems a lot stronger at running at players. Also, the stamina of the players in general is far better now. Even Chuks looks fitter and stronger. That’s important as he is always a potential game changer.6
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Hector, too, IMO.Rob said:I’ve noticed it in CBT. He seems a lot stronger at running at players. Also, the stamina of the players in general is far better now. Even Chuks looks fitter and stronger. That’s important as he is always a potential game changer.1 -
I do find it somewhat strange that the one commodity of a top PL side, namely the ability to compete for 90 minutes, that can be replicated isn't a given for all teams at all levels.3
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This concerns me because it keeps happening despite it being a totally different group of players. Almost every manager we get says the players aren't fit enough.Swisdom said:Apparently the players are working much harder in training now than they were previously. A few had taken their foot off the gas as Holden was too much of a "mate" or a nice guy.
Appleton has his way of doing things and it's slightly different to the Holden approach shall we say
All the coaches are different, all the players are different. I really struggle to see a common denominator. You can say what you like about Adkins, Jackson, Garner and Holden but they have all been in the game long enough to know what the standards should be, and have some idea on how to maintain them. Holden played for Sam Allardyce FFS.
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How often do prem teams actually compete for the full 90 though?Addick Addict said:I do find it somewhat strange that the one commodity of a top PL side, namely the ability to compete for 90 minutes, that can be replicated isn't a given for all teams at all levels.0 -
I suppose the only common denominator is us being a poorly run club with no real infrastructure. Have we even had a fitness & conditioning coach? Even going all the way back to Bowyer, he used to say he didn't have one.Cafc43v3r said:
This concerns me because it keeps happening despite it being a totally different group of players. Almost every manager we get says the players aren't fit enough.Swisdom said:Apparently the players are working much harder in training now than they were previously. A few had taken their foot off the gas as Holden was too much of a "mate" or a nice guy.
Appleton has his way of doing things and it's slightly different to the Holden approach shall we say
All the coaches are different, all the players are different. I really struggle to see a common denominator. You can say what you like about Adkins, Jackson, Garner and Holden but they have all been in the game long enough to know what the standards should be, and have some idea on how to maintain them. Holden played for Sam Allardyce FFS.2 - Sponsored links:
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Considering he positioned himself as a real fan, man of the common people, “south east london has taken me to its heart” yadda yadda, I’m still narked he never bothered to give a ‘thanks for your support, really appreciate it’ message.
Given the situation he was given great support by the fans, a bit baggy behaviour in my eyes
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Fitness was one of our key strengths in the Prem. No matter how talented you are, you can’t compete without a high fitness level - it’s the base that allows one’s talent to flourish. As an example, I think Paulo Di Canio was one of the fittest players I’ve ever seen.Addick Addict said:I do find it somewhat strange that the one commodity of a top PL side, namely the ability to compete for 90 minutes, that can be replicated isn't a given for all teams at all levels.2 -
Pre season, for whatever reason, was a failure.
Defensively we were a shambles, with no settled CB pairing, while fitness wasn't good enough. And that's comparing our players with those of smaller clubs, who don't have massive resources and loads of backroom staff.4 -
That is true but the narrative has been, and there is probably a lot of truth in it, that the players worked harder when Adkins was sacked, when Garner was sacked and now when Holden was sacked.Chunes said:
I suppose the only common denominator is us being a poorly run club with no real infrastructure. Have we even had a fitness & conditioning coach? Even going all the way back to Bowyer, he used to say he didn't have one.Cafc43v3r said:
This concerns me because it keeps happening despite it being a totally different group of players. Almost every manager we get says the players aren't fit enough.Swisdom said:Apparently the players are working much harder in training now than they were previously. A few had taken their foot off the gas as Holden was too much of a "mate" or a nice guy.
Appleton has his way of doing things and it's slightly different to the Holden approach shall we say
All the coaches are different, all the players are different. I really struggle to see a common denominator. You can say what you like about Adkins, Jackson, Garner and Holden but they have all been in the game long enough to know what the standards should be, and have some idea on how to maintain them. Holden played for Sam Allardyce FFS.
If they are now doing the necessary work the infrastructure isn't the cause is it? Although there is no doubt it could be a lot better.1 -
The possession stats for the likes of City isn't solely down to their ability to retain the ball - it's also down to the fact that they press in packs to win it back which only works if every player is fit enough to do that.Stu_of_Kunming said:
How often do prem teams actually compete for the full 90 though?Addick Addict said:I do find it somewhat strange that the one commodity of a top PL side, namely the ability to compete for 90 minutes, that can be replicated isn't a given for all teams at all levels.2 -
Klopp's Liverpool at their peak worked incredibly hard off the ball. It was their aging midfield which was where it went wrong last season, as they weren't able to press like they used to.Addick Addict said:
The possession stats for the likes of City isn't solely down to their ability to retain the ball - it's also down to the fact that they press in packs to win it back which only works if every player is fit enough to do that.Stu_of_Kunming said:
How often do prem teams actually compete for the full 90 though?Addick Addict said:I do find it somewhat strange that the one commodity of a top PL side, namely the ability to compete for 90 minutes, that can be replicated isn't a given for all teams at all levels.2 -
Shame the interview is so short, would like to have heard more.
First I've heard about the two letters from the FA saying we should have had two penalties.0 -
I have noticed it in CBT too. So has Curbs. He used to have CBT as one of the players who needed to be kept in cotton wool because he couldnt do 90 mins.Rob said:I’ve noticed it in CBT. He seems a lot stronger at running at players. Also, the stamina of the players in general is far better now. Even Chuks looks fitter and stronger. That’s important as he is always a potential game changer.Well now he can. He has been one of our most consistent players this season.
Trouble is, its been true from the first game of the season. So you cant pin his improvement on the sacking of Holden.1 -
I find that a bit strange.Henry Irving said:Shame the interview is so short, would like to have heard more.
First I've heard about the two letters from the FA saying we should have had two penalties.
Why would the FA bother writing letters to a club to tell them they should have had 2 penalties.
The obvious answer I suppose is that somebody from the club wrote a complaint or enquiry questioning the decisions, but even then I would expect the response to be anodyne or non-commital.
Can't see them undermining the officials in writing.2 - Sponsored links:
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Referees are assessed all the time so it’s probably part of the process. In the PL the PMGL or whatever they are called are always apologising, such as to Klopp after the Spurs debacle, and refs removed from the next set of fixtures as a result. Similar to that I expect.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
I find that a bit strange.Henry Irving said:Shame the interview is so short, would like to have heard more.
First I've heard about the two letters from the FA saying we should have had two penalties.
Why would the FA bother writing letters to a club to tell them they should have had 2 penalties.
The obvious answer I suppose is that somebody from the club wrote a complaint or enquiry questioning the decisions, but even then I would expect the response to be anodyne or non-commital.
Can't see them undermining the officials in writing.
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Interesting. Thanks for that mate.LargeAddick said:
Referees are assessed all the time so it’s probably part of the process. In the PL the PMGL or whatever they are called are always apologising, such as to Klopp after the Spurs debacle, and refs removed from the next set of fixtures as a result. Similar to that I expect.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
I find that a bit strange.Henry Irving said:Shame the interview is so short, would like to have heard more.
First I've heard about the two letters from the FA saying we should have had two penalties.
Why would the FA bother writing letters to a club to tell them they should have had 2 penalties.
The obvious answer I suppose is that somebody from the club wrote a complaint or enquiry questioning the decisions, but even then I would expect the response to be anodyne or non-commital.
Can't see them undermining the officials in writing.
I'd forgotten about that Klopp incident0 -
still gutted it didn't work out for him here, really liked the fella
wish him well wherever he goes next34 -
The dole office.Elthamaddick said:still gutted it didn't work out for him here, really liked the fella
wish him well wherever he goes next2 -
I think it is unfair to be disapointed with him. He has said only nice things about the club and the fans and would have been upset to get the sack. I still don't think it was fair but Applieton is our manager now and is doing a decent job. He has had a bit of luck with players returning and the gaps between fixtures to work with the players, but I haven't got a problem with that. Holden moves on and so do we.7
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He's a sound chap, but has some struggles adapting within games and tactically.
For all his 'ard man persona, it appears he was a soft touch with the players?2 -
I liked Holden.
After Jackson, and possibly Bowyer, I liked him most out of all of the cack managers we've had since Powell. Which possibly isn't saying much, admittedly, but there it is.13 -
Yeah, that and walking down the tunnel without applauding the fans at Oxford.AFKABartram said:Considering he positioned himself as a real fan, man of the common people, “south east london has taken me to its heart” yadda yadda, I’m still narked he never bothered to give a ‘thanks for your support, really appreciate it’ message.
Given the situation he was given great support by the fans, a bit baggy behaviour in my eyes
I think he is well media trained, and clearly his time in the game makes it so that he knows what to say to the supporters. And maybe that is genuine. But it felt like that was kind of all there was to him. I think he seems like a nice bloke but I don't think being that kind of manager is enough these days. You have to have something about you tactically, and he emphatically did not.0 -
Certainly on a purely personal level he probably is one of the more personable and likeable managers we've had. On the other hand that might have been part of his problems at the end - if his approach relied on players "buying in" but they did not (for whatever reason) then he may not have had the level of authority any more.Off_it said:I liked Holden.
After Jackson, and possibly Bowyer, I liked him most out of all of the cack managers we've had since Powell. Which possibly isn't saying much, admittedly, but there it is.
Someone like Appleton on the other hand is probably less concerned with being "liked" by the players and more about being listened to. I am not saying he's going out of his way to bully players but you can visibly see that work rate, physical fitness etc seem to have increased under the new manager and that won't have happened without hard work.
Pure speculation by me though.2 -
Elthamaddick said:still gutted it didn't work out for him here, really liked the fella
wish him well wherever he goes next
I believe he’s going to Tumbledown Cottage, the rehab home for failed League One managers, where he will surely meet Garner. They don’t promise miracles, but do have a good record in advising how to:-
Get defenders to kick the ball hard up the pitch.
Dump the tippy tappy style.
Stop goalies from messing about
Use substitutions when your team can’t get near the ball.
Avoid fantasising about being a Premiership team
Decline from bigging up the area you move into - until you’ve taken a walk around - preferably with a baseball bat.
Avoid football press gangs who pay the King’s shilling. (The only outcome is to cop the blame for everything).
Stop buying pints for the supporters
Stop being mates with squad members.
Tumbledown Mission Statement
At the end of the course, managers will be reinvigorated enough to ...
Rejoin the EFL Football manager's Merry-Go-Round.
Be able to set their stall out.
Exercise a charm Offensive.
Hint how things were just beginning to turn around at the previous sacking.
Talk the hind legs off a donkey.
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