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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic vs Burton Albion: Saturday 23rd December 2023 | KO 3:00pm
Comments
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Terrible game, we had a lot of possession but no quality in the final third.
When was the last time we had a decent game at home with a bit of atmosphere? The club is going nowhere, no identity on or off the pitch2 -
Got a massive hump over that game. Not because of the late equaliser, as I knew it was coming, but because of our performance across the whole game
A complete lack of energy, of movement, of desire to try and create something. Ridiculous that we only had any desire in the final minute of added time, when if we had played like that for most of the game, it would have been wrapped up by then .
For that, I blame Appleton. The attitude out there was half arsed. 2 weeks ago, against similarly lowly opposition, we ambled through the first half, as if we would be given a win on a plate.
Yes you need a technical coach, and yes much of our attacking play was seriously frustrating, but if the attitude is wrong, you'll go nowhere in this league.
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This is clearly on the players.They are simply not good enough.5
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Hold my hands up on the formation thing, just watched some highlights back and it is a 3-5-2. Was looking at apps which showed it was a 4-3-3.Callumcafc said:
Agree to disagree I suppose. Only Andy Scott will tell you.NabySarr said:
If you go through our summer signings and our squad in general they have all played or done their best in a 3-5-2.Callumcafc said:
Disagree, think we recruited for a 4-3-3. That’s the formation we played throughout pre season. Then we got tonked by Aberdeen and Holden panicked, started the season 3-5-2 against Orient. In five league games he played 3-5-2 four times and 4-3-3 once. As soon as he was gone, Pearce picked a 4-3-3 team.SDAddick said:
I think it's supposed to be the model now.Callumcafc said:
That is the model of ours and other clubs, yes.ross1 said:Surely we will not be getting MA choice of players but Scott's choice, that way, when MA goes and is replaced, the style of play will be decided by Scott who will make sure the new head coach will play the way he wants with the players brought in to play that way
It either hasn't been the model, or hasn't been done well enough, in recent years.
In the summer we clearly recruited for a 3-5-2, and Holden switched to a 4-3-3 in like the second or third game. And then we brought in Apples who plays 4-2-3-1. And as such, we don't have enough FB cover, especially solid defensive fullbacks, and we don't have a natural right winger.
By my count we've started: May, TC, Tedic, Leaburn, Kanu, and Rylah at RW in the league. CC has started there in the cup but not sure about the league. We've basically played all of our attackers except Chuks and CBT on the right, which is absolutely the sign of a lack of joined up thinking.
Edun and Tennai have historically mostly played traditional full back roles in their careers. I think we were recruited to played right back and left back, not wing back.
Appleton was brought in because he plays 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 which gels with the recruitment strategy.
And if we were going for three centre backs as the primary formation, you’d think we’d have signed more than just Jones to add to Hector, Ness and Thomas.Watson played wing back for MK when they finished 3rd, Edun played a lot at wing back after Appleton left Lincoln and watching him play he’s poor defensively so definitely more suited to wing back. Frasers best spell was in a 3-5-2 at Burton/MK, Camara at Plymouth 3-5-2, Jones at Cambridge 3-5-2, May at Cheltenham 3-5-2 and so on
But in my mind, the idea that we recruited for 3-5-2, then played 4-3-3 all of pre season, switched to 3-5-2 for the league games and then Holden got sacked for, in Scott’s words, not sticking to the plan, only to hire a coach who plays 4-3-3… none of that makes any sense.
Why would we recruit for 3-5-2, then sack Holden who was playing 3-5-2 and replace him with someone who plays 4-3-3. If that’s what happened, Scott is not fit for purpose.Edun playing his best season was a traditional left back, despite his weaknesses. Jones spent a lot of time in a two as well as a three and I actually think he’s been way more comfortable in a two since he’s been here.Sigh, this club.1 -
I’m sorry but you’re talking a load of bollocks. We played 3 at the back all pre-season? Holden played 3 at the back for the first 2 games (in which we did quite well) then switched to 4-3-3 and then back to 3-5-2 for the Oxford game which was a disaster. But for Scott to claim he was surprised at us playing 3 at the back is a load of bollocks, we played it from the first pre-season game to the last and signed players that had played it last seasonCallumcafc said:
Agree to disagree I suppose. Only Andy Scott will tell you.NabySarr said:
If you go through our summer signings and our squad in general they have all played or done their best in a 3-5-2.Callumcafc said:
Disagree, think we recruited for a 4-3-3. That’s the formation we played throughout pre season. Then we got tonked by Aberdeen and Holden panicked, started the season 3-5-2 against Orient. In five league games he played 3-5-2 four times and 4-3-3 once. As soon as he was gone, Pearce picked a 4-3-3 team.SDAddick said:
I think it's supposed to be the model now.Callumcafc said:
That is the model of ours and other clubs, yes.ross1 said:Surely we will not be getting MA choice of players but Scott's choice, that way, when MA goes and is replaced, the style of play will be decided by Scott who will make sure the new head coach will play the way he wants with the players brought in to play that way
It either hasn't been the model, or hasn't been done well enough, in recent years.
In the summer we clearly recruited for a 3-5-2, and Holden switched to a 4-3-3 in like the second or third game. And then we brought in Apples who plays 4-2-3-1. And as such, we don't have enough FB cover, especially solid defensive fullbacks, and we don't have a natural right winger.
By my count we've started: May, TC, Tedic, Leaburn, Kanu, and Rylah at RW in the league. CC has started there in the cup but not sure about the league. We've basically played all of our attackers except Chuks and CBT on the right, which is absolutely the sign of a lack of joined up thinking.
Edun and Tennai have historically mostly played traditional full back roles in their careers. I think we were recruited to played right back and left back, not wing back.
Appleton was brought in because he plays 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 which gels with the recruitment strategy.
And if we were going for three centre backs as the primary formation, you’d think we’d have signed more than just Jones to add to Hector, Ness and Thomas.Watson played wing back for MK when they finished 3rd, Edun played a lot at wing back after Appleton left Lincoln and watching him play he’s poor defensively so definitely more suited to wing back. Frasers best spell was in a 3-5-2 at Burton/MK, Camara at Plymouth 3-5-2, Jones at Cambridge 3-5-2, May at Cheltenham 3-5-2 and so on
But in my mind, the idea that we recruited for 3-5-2, then played 4-3-3 all of pre season, switched to 3-5-2 for the league games and then Holden got sacked for, in Scott’s words, not sticking to the plan, only to hire a coach who plays 4-3-3… none of that makes any sense.
Why would we recruit for 3-5-2, then sack Holden who was playing 3-5-2 and replace him with someone who plays 4-3-3. If that’s what happened, Scott is not fit for purpose.Edun playing his best season was a traditional left back, despite his weaknesses. Jones spent a lot of time in a two as well as a three and I actually think he’s been way more comfortable in a two since he’s been here.0 -
I never said he was.eastterrace6168 said:
He wasn't alone there though was he...Gribbo said:Thought CBT, Dobbo and May all off the boil today and Hector - Puts in a decent cross to make the goal / Gets caught ball watching for the equaliser.1 -
Ridiculous comments. Anyone who is willing to put any of their time in to support this team, from wherever they are in the world, is just as entitled to their view as anyone else.Chunes said:
Honestly, with all politeness, I think you need to pipe down a bit here. You don't get it. Having overseas fans is fantastic but it's a hobby for you at the end of the day. Growing up in SE London, working class, your football team is unexplainable. I mean you didn't get why losing to the Gills was a big deal. You're so welcome as a fan but as the same time you have to have a hint of deference and to be lecturing us on how to support our team is ridiculous.SDAddick said:
I absolutely agree about that today, but there are some on here who literally only post when we have a poor result. It is not their fault, and I didn't say it was. But it has been noteworthy for weeks if not months that some almost celebrate the bad results and are quiet about the good ones. And that is what I find baffling.Athletico Charlton said:SDAddick said:A real boon for those only interested in the team for when they get to call them "gutless" or whatever. A great day for them.
Sorry, calling out fans is a nonsense. There is not a single fan who think this is a great day. Sure some are more pessimistic/glass half full but no.one.on here wants Charlton to lose.
I see lots of posters who go to games, pumping their money into the club and totally fed up with another pathetic season, a poor team, a poor manager and a dreadful result (again) against a dreadful opposition (again).
As Ohhahh regularly points out this is pretty much our worst running league performance ever at the same time our rivals are outperforming. It is hardly surprising fans are fed up.8 -
352 would suit Alfie, and it would suit Hector as it would give him far more licence to bring the ball out.0
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We have two winnable games coming up which we have to win. The January business needs to be early, not on deadline day. I can't see either happening.1
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Scott should have been a lot closer to what Holden was planning (as he now acts like he wasn’t) and then he should have hired a manager that plays 3-5-2 to get the best out of May.NabySarr said:
I’m sorry but you’re talking a load of bollocks. We played 3 at the back all pre-season? Holden played 3 at the back for the first 2 games (in which we did quite well) then switched to 4-3-3 and then back to 3-5-2 for the Oxford game which was a disaster. But for Scott to claim he was surprised at us playing 3 at the back is a load of bollocks, we played it from the first pre-season game to the last and signed players that had played it last seasonCallumcafc said:
Agree to disagree I suppose. Only Andy Scott will tell you.NabySarr said:
If you go through our summer signings and our squad in general they have all played or done their best in a 3-5-2.Callumcafc said:
Disagree, think we recruited for a 4-3-3. That’s the formation we played throughout pre season. Then we got tonked by Aberdeen and Holden panicked, started the season 3-5-2 against Orient. In five league games he played 3-5-2 four times and 4-3-3 once. As soon as he was gone, Pearce picked a 4-3-3 team.SDAddick said:
I think it's supposed to be the model now.Callumcafc said:
That is the model of ours and other clubs, yes.ross1 said:Surely we will not be getting MA choice of players but Scott's choice, that way, when MA goes and is replaced, the style of play will be decided by Scott who will make sure the new head coach will play the way he wants with the players brought in to play that way
It either hasn't been the model, or hasn't been done well enough, in recent years.
In the summer we clearly recruited for a 3-5-2, and Holden switched to a 4-3-3 in like the second or third game. And then we brought in Apples who plays 4-2-3-1. And as such, we don't have enough FB cover, especially solid defensive fullbacks, and we don't have a natural right winger.
By my count we've started: May, TC, Tedic, Leaburn, Kanu, and Rylah at RW in the league. CC has started there in the cup but not sure about the league. We've basically played all of our attackers except Chuks and CBT on the right, which is absolutely the sign of a lack of joined up thinking.
Edun and Tennai have historically mostly played traditional full back roles in their careers. I think we were recruited to played right back and left back, not wing back.
Appleton was brought in because he plays 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 which gels with the recruitment strategy.
And if we were going for three centre backs as the primary formation, you’d think we’d have signed more than just Jones to add to Hector, Ness and Thomas.Watson played wing back for MK when they finished 3rd, Edun played a lot at wing back after Appleton left Lincoln and watching him play he’s poor defensively so definitely more suited to wing back. Frasers best spell was in a 3-5-2 at Burton/MK, Camara at Plymouth 3-5-2, Jones at Cambridge 3-5-2, May at Cheltenham 3-5-2 and so on
But in my mind, the idea that we recruited for 3-5-2, then played 4-3-3 all of pre season, switched to 3-5-2 for the league games and then Holden got sacked for, in Scott’s words, not sticking to the plan, only to hire a coach who plays 4-3-3… none of that makes any sense.
Why would we recruit for 3-5-2, then sack Holden who was playing 3-5-2 and replace him with someone who plays 4-3-3. If that’s what happened, Scott is not fit for purpose.Edun playing his best season was a traditional left back, despite his weaknesses. Jones spent a lot of time in a two as well as a three and I actually think he’s been way more comfortable in a two since he’s been here.We approached loads of managers, Challinor at Stockport plays 3-5-2 and would have been my choice but unfortunately he didn’t talk to us. But that shows the lack of plan from Scott that we were approaching such a variety of managers with different formations, approached Challinor and recruited Appleton who plays a different system. The recruitment/style of play/formation should all be set by him and we should be recruiting managers and players to fit but there seems to be a real lack of joined up thinking and that’s why he’s deservedly being criticised1 -
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When someone says Gillingham is a derby just leave the conversation. It isn't.SDAddick said:
I'm not lecturing on how to support a team, I'm pointing out how people post on this forum.Chunes said:
Honestly, with all politeness, I think you need to pipe down a bit here. You don't get it. Having overseas fans is fantastic but it's a hobby for you at the end of the day. Growing up in SE London, working class, your football team is unexplainable. I mean you didn't get why losing to the Gills was a big deal. You're so welcome as a fan but as the same time you have to have a hint of deference and to be lecturing us on how to support our team is ridiculous.SDAddick said:
I absolutely agree about that today, but there are some on here who literally only post when we have a poor result. It is not their fault, and I didn't say it was. But it has been noteworthy for weeks if not months that some almost celebrate the bad results and are quiet about the good ones. And that is what I find baffling.Athletico Charlton said:SDAddick said:A real boon for those only interested in the team for when they get to call them "gutless" or whatever. A great day for them.
Sorry, calling out fans is a nonsense. There is not a single fan who think this is a great day. Sure some are more pessimistic/glass half full but no.one.on here wants Charlton to lose.
I see lots of posters who go to games, pumping their money into the club and totally fed up with another pathetic season, a poor team, a poor manager and a dreadful result (again) against a dreadful opposition (again).
As Ohhahh regularly points out this is pretty much our worst running league performance ever at the same time our rivals are outperforming. It is hardly surprising fans are fed up.
You're absolutely right, I didn't grow up working class in SE7. And I can't help or change that. But how many trips to the Valley, or away days, do I have to do until I get a day? How much time spent on here? How many times waking up at 6am? It's not the same, but it's not like I'm new here either.
You think I don't know that Gillingham is close? Or that it's a "derby?" Any point I made about that game was simply because it was the cup and the league matters more. Maybe that's a culture difference, maybe that's an age difference. But it's particularly ironic given how many times down the years I've heard "Gillingham is a derby for them but not for us."
You can gatekeep all you want. You can call me less of a fan, and you can LOL all my posts, but it doesn't change my feelings for the club. And I'm not going anywhere. And frankly, that's because I value so many of you on here, both for footballing and non-footballing reasons. BY THE WAY CHUNES, THAT INCLUDES YOU! Because for as much as I disagree with you and your pessimism, I still read all your posts because I think you're still very thoughtful and grounded in reality. Ironically, I wasn't talking about you because you're here rain and shine. And I'm not talking about someone like a golfie because golfie is always miserable and you can set your watch by that.
I'll say one last thing: there have been a lot of threads on here that I have loved down the years, but in the last couple years the Autism thread has really helped me understand both my dad and my friends on the spectrum. And I value ALL of you for it and for creating such a wonderful community.
What I'm trying to say is fuck you, and I love all of you, even when I can't stand you.
I think everyone who supports this shite lot is somewhat on the 'spectrum' I know I fucking am.
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Complete and utterly rubbish about the pre season, we played 3 at the back the entire pre season and only went to 4 at the back for the home game against Bristol RoversCallumcafc said:
Disagree, think we recruited for a 4-3-3. That’s the formation we played throughout pre season. Then we got tonked by Aberdeen and Holden panicked, started the season 3-5-2 against Orient. In five league games he played 3-5-2 four times and 4-3-3 once. As soon as he was gone, Pearce picked a 4-3-3 team.SDAddick said:
I think it's supposed to be the model now.Callumcafc said:
That is the model of ours and other clubs, yes.ross1 said:Surely we will not be getting MA choice of players but Scott's choice, that way, when MA goes and is replaced, the style of play will be decided by Scott who will make sure the new head coach will play the way he wants with the players brought in to play that way
It either hasn't been the model, or hasn't been done well enough, in recent years.
In the summer we clearly recruited for a 3-5-2, and Holden switched to a 4-3-3 in like the second or third game. And then we brought in Apples who plays 4-2-3-1. And as such, we don't have enough FB cover, especially solid defensive fullbacks, and we don't have a natural right winger.
By my count we've started: May, TC, Tedic, Leaburn, Kanu, and Rylah at RW in the league. CC has started there in the cup but not sure about the league. We've basically played all of our attackers except Chuks and CBT on the right, which is absolutely the sign of a lack of joined up thinking.
Edun and Tennai have historically mostly played traditional full back roles in their careers. I think we were recruited to played right back and left back, not wing back.
Appleton was brought in because he plays 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 which gels with the recruitment strategy.
And if we were going for three centre backs as the primary formation, you’d think we’d have signed more than just Jones to add to Hector, Ness and Thomas.5 -
I said to my son at half time it looked like a training game.
We were going through the motions and comfortable. Precisely what most of us don't want. We want commitment, effort and guile. Above all we want Burton bloody Albion put to the sword. We all knew 1 0 up at home to Burton Albion was not enough - and so it proved - quelle surprise.8 -
No......it wasn't aimed at you, just a general observation...🤷♂️Gribbo said:
I never said he was.eastterrace6168 said:
He wasn't alone there though was he...Gribbo said:Thought CBT, Dobbo and May all off the boil today and Hector - Puts in a decent cross to make the goal / Gets caught ball watching for the equaliser.0 -
I am fed up of players losing so many 2nd balls. If they haven't got it they can fcuk off. I have had it up to here with Fraser. As I said last week, a luxury player who gives you no luxury! Appleton had to make offensive subs because we can't sit on a lead but we seemed to sit back all the same! If you can't do it, don't do it.1
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Blimey that was a tough watch. Like everyone else just knew they were gonna nick a goal at the end. I’m not sure we’ve a load of bottlers who don’t care, we just have mainly bang average players that aren’t good enough to get us near the top of the league. Unless that changes in January which let’s be honest is very unlikely then I expect more of the same for the foreseeable.3
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Will he clean it with his head?MuttleyCAFC said:I think we need to give Appleton a window. We can't keep sacking managers. It doesn't work.1 -
Wouldn't suit CBT though and that was the problem once Leaburn got injured we had nobody to hold the ball up alongside May. We also had no wing backs early on.killerandflash said:352 would suit Alfie, and it would suit Hector as it would give him far more licence to bring the ball out.1 -
So,in essence, all will be alright by the end of January once we havecrecruited the 5 or 6 players we need.Callumcafc said:
Holden got the boot because he was meant to be playing 4-3-3 most of the time (I don’t think Scott dictates formation on a game by game basis, but he does expect that we’ll play the formation that’s been recruited for) and Holden wasn’t holding up his end of the deal. And losing games while doing it.golfaddick said:
So why has Appleton been moaning recently? Surely we replaced Holden with a like-for-like manager, who could use Holden's players like they were his.Callumcafc said:
That is the model of ours and other clubs, yes.ross1 said:Surely we will not be getting MA choice of players but Scott's choice, that way, when MA goes and is replaced, the style of play will be decided by Scott who will make sure the new head coach will play the way he wants with the players brought in to play that way
Or was Holden right and they were crap all along.
Appleton probably joined the club thinking he would only have to change formation and tweak a few things and the wins would come. Like most outsiders, he probably saw the names in the squad and assumed we should be top six.
It’s only now, a few months in, that he’s been exposed to the reality of our deficiencies.
Brilliant. Can't wait to start going again & seeing all those wins.0 -
The club is dying…..couldn’t have been more than 5-6k in the ground…..a team that couldn’t give a shit and owners who are looking to flip for a profit…..Merry fcuking Xmas1
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Its telling that our best spell this season was when Aneke and Leaburn were fit. Midfield is crap though whatever formation we play1
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I just knew when leaving The Valley there would be someone on here ready to have a pop at the supporters.SDAddick said:A real boon for those only interested in the team for when they get to call them "gutless" or whatever. A great day for them.
That being said, that performance was not good and the result was unacceptable. The game changed when TC came on for Fraser. Fraser wasn't brilliant, but having him and LWat in midfield gave us numbers and dominance and we were playing on the front foot. Dropping LW deeper made him less effective, especially when we're defending deep, and we kept dropping deeper and deeper.
And we still almost got away with it. But we look petrified when defending a lead in the last 10 minutes. And that's not good enough from a group of players far more talented than Burton, and a lot of that has to fall on the manager.
Against Cambridge we conceded in stoppage time from a penalty that wasn't a penalty. It's bad luck.
Today, there are no excuses. We conceded from a pinball in the 93rd minute where we didn't win the first, second, or third balls. Absolutely unacceptable.
We sacked Holden when we needed to, even if the options to replace him weren't great. Appleton made sense, and the results over the next two months bore that out. I think something he did well was getting good players (CBT, Hector, Jones, Dobbo, May, Aneke) playing well. And there was something to that. But we never had a clear system and our best tactic seemed to be just overloading teams with talent, especially late in the game. And that falls apart when you lose players to injury.
And we have, and now a lack of a solid system is showing. In short, I fear Appleton has been found out. I'm not Appleton out now like I was with Holden during his last game, but I think other options need to be considered.
I don't think they will sack Appleton, but if I were in charge I would be keeping an eye on the managers out of a job and starting to think about who would be an upgrade and who could take the club forward. Appleton has always felt like a bit of a right place, right time guy. And I've never been convinced he's the long term solution.
It's so frustrating. We're close to both the window and hopefully getting some players back from injury. But we can't afford to draw winnable games, especially after the start we had.
Im not "we can forget about the playoffs now" because there's still a lot of football to be played. But if we play the way we have in recent weeks then it doesn't matter how much football there is left.
How much more shit does it have to get before we are not being lectured at about pointing out how crap most of our entire club has become?19 -
Disagree. It's SDAddick whose comments are ridiculous. If you've gone today you are entitled to moan and whine all you want and to say today's game was a boon for those who want to do so is wrong. He's entitled to his opinion of course but it's easy when you are overseas and not as invested in the games. I don't comment on away performances as I'm not there so how can I? He mentioned fans who only comment on these threads when we have had a bad result and that it's noticeable who they are. Has he ever thought that fans may not comment because they weren't there?se9addick said:
Ridiculous comments. Anyone who is willing to put any of their time in to support this team, from wherever they are in the world, is just as entitled to their view as anyone else.Chunes said:
Honestly, with all politeness, I think you need to pipe down a bit here. You don't get it. Having overseas fans is fantastic but it's a hobby for you at the end of the day. Growing up in SE London, working class, your football team is unexplainable. I mean you didn't get why losing to the Gills was a big deal. You're so welcome as a fan but as the same time you have to have a hint of deference and to be lecturing us on how to support our team is ridiculous.SDAddick said:
I absolutely agree about that today, but there are some on here who literally only post when we have a poor result. It is not their fault, and I didn't say it was. But it has been noteworthy for weeks if not months that some almost celebrate the bad results and are quiet about the good ones. And that is what I find baffling.Athletico Charlton said:SDAddick said:A real boon for those only interested in the team for when they get to call them "gutless" or whatever. A great day for them.
Sorry, calling out fans is a nonsense. There is not a single fan who think this is a great day. Sure some are more pessimistic/glass half full but no.one.on here wants Charlton to lose.
I see lots of posters who go to games, pumping their money into the club and totally fed up with another pathetic season, a poor team, a poor manager and a dreadful result (again) against a dreadful opposition (again).
As Ohhahh regularly points out this is pretty much our worst running league performance ever at the same time our rivals are outperforming. It is hardly surprising fans are fed up.
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It is not the fans who have been or are the problem with this club.3
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Not that I agree with your comment regarding the owners, but the idea of "flipping for a profit" is not gonna happen until we are out of this shite league...for anyone.ct_addick said:The club is dying…..couldn’t have been more than 5-6k in the ground…..a team that couldn’t give a shit and owners who are looking to flip for a profit…..Merry fcuking Xmas0 -
Every game is winnable, today's more so than the next two. We know what happened today.MuttleyCAFC said:We have two winnable games coming up which we have to win. The January business needs to be early, not on deadline day. I can't see either happening.0 -
The players must have had their Christmas do this week, going by some of their performances, their still on it!!!0
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We’ve just had 2 winnable games at home and dropped 4 points., my expectations are low, very low.MuttleyCAFC said:We have two winnable games coming up which we have to win. The January business needs to be early, not on deadline day. I can't see either happening.8 -
So are mine but these games are winnable and we have to win them. That was all my point was.Mendonca In Asdas said:
We’ve just had 2 winnable games at home and dropped 4 points., my expectations are low, very low.MuttleyCAFC said:We have two winnable games coming up which we have to win. The January business needs to be early, not on deadline day. I can't see either happening.2 -
Most criminal thing in a literny of footballing criminality, that now runs through this once wonderful football club, is that the best natural goalscorer we have had in a long long while is being played on the wing!
THAT IS YOUR FAULT MICKEY APPLES...16
