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Post Office Horizon scandal
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She deserves jail....IdleHans said:Listening on the radio. She's already being torn a new one.
I hope she's had months of sleepless nights and has years more of them to come. Then goes to jail.3 -
How you get a CBE for not knowing what's going on in your company heaven knows. You don't just get a CBE, somebody must have put her name forward.
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I am hearing the question quite often, how do we stop it happening again which also applies to the blood scandal etc... Surely the simple answer is those responsible, when knowing they were lying to protect their organisations should stand trial and if found guilty, given custodial sentences. None of this too long ago rubbish.8
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Well, it can't as far as I know because in England & Wales I believe the Post Office only has the same rights to prosecute as any of us, that is to bring a private prosecution. (Unlike, say, the FCA which has a legal status as a prosecuting authority for offences under the legislation it operates under.)WHAddick said:
Absolutely right...let's hope it happens for England nextcafcfan said:https://www.thenational.scot/news/24325304.post-office-can-no-longer-investigate-crimes-scotland/
The Post Office has lost its Special Reporting Agency status in Scotland.
North of the border, it will no longer be able to investigate and report direct to the Crown. It will have to report suspicions to the police, like the rest of us.1 -
I’m watching the live feed instead of working as I should be. In her own witness statement Vennells has just referred to an audit report in 2011 that clearly states that “remote access” was possible. And she’s trying to say she didn’t understand that to be the case. It’s in plain English!0
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It is like the lawyer bloke is scraping her brain clear and reassembling it as it truly was, not what Vennels says it is or was.2
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Piss poor management, diligence and leadership, I can only presume that she wasn't paid too much for her incompetence.0
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I'm no legal expert but how could they bring criminal trials if that were the case?cafcfan said:
Well, it can't as far as I know because in England & Wales I believe the Post Office only has the same rights to prosecute as any of us, that is to bring a private prosecution. (Unlike, say, the FCA which has a legal status as a prosecuting authority for offences under the legislation it operates under.)WHAddick said:
Absolutely right...let's hope it happens for England nextcafcfan said:https://www.thenational.scot/news/24325304.post-office-can-no-longer-investigate-crimes-scotland/
The Post Office has lost its Special Reporting Agency status in Scotland.
North of the border, it will no longer be able to investigate and report direct to the Crown. It will have to report suspicions to the police, like the rest of us.
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Hal1x said:Piss poor management, diligence and leadership, I can only presume that she wasn't paid too much for her incompetence.
£5.1m over the time she was there including bonuses. Beer went for that very early this morning.
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I still want to hear the question...............
"Did you never think that having hundreds of sub postmasters apparently "stealing" not hundreds of pounds but tens of thousands of pounds a little strange. Maybe a few, even a couple of dozen could be accepted, but hundreds & hundreds of upstanding members of the community ?? Even more so, that ALL of these subpostmasters were saying the same thing - that it was the NEW computer system & not them".
I don't how SOMEONE never broke cover & raised this. I would like to think I would say something. Or do CEO's, Lawyers, High Management think that they are employing a shed load of crooks and its "just they way it is".
I've still not heard this asked. And would love to hear the reply.8 -
WHAddick said:
I'm no legal expert but how could they bring criminal trials if that were the case?cafcfan said:
Well, it can't as far as I know because in England & Wales I believe the Post Office only has the same rights to prosecute as any of us, that is to bring a private prosecution. (Unlike, say, the FCA which has a legal status as a prosecuting authority for offences under the legislation it operates under.)WHAddick said:
Absolutely right...let's hope it happens for England nextcafcfan said:https://www.thenational.scot/news/24325304.post-office-can-no-longer-investigate-crimes-scotland/
The Post Office has lost its Special Reporting Agency status in Scotland.
North of the border, it will no longer be able to investigate and report direct to the Crown. It will have to report suspicions to the police, like the rest of us.Private prosecutions, as stated above.
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Oh thats all right then! you would never get top knot management for that money.man_at_milletts said:Hal1x said:Piss poor management, diligence and leadership, I can only presume that she wasn't paid too much for her incompetence.
£5.1m over the time she was there including bonuses. Beer went for that very early this morning.
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I think the Post Office had it’s own separate yet allowed judicial process going back to the days of Dick Turpin.0
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seth plum said:I think the Post Office had it’s own separate yet allowed judicial process going back to the days of Dick Turpin.
I raised this earlier in this thread. Similar to the military they have their own judicial system.
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I can’t find the numbers and can’t remember where I read it or heard it but as you say pre Horizon sub postmasters prosecuted each year was minuscule as opposed to post Horizon. Was it really that hard to grasp that there was a problem.golfaddick said:I still want to hear the question...............
"Did you never think that having hundreds of sub postmasters apparently "stealing" not hundreds of pounds but tens of thousands of pounds a little strange. Maybe a few, even a couple of dozen could be accepted, but hundreds & hundreds of upstanding members of the community ?? Even more so, that ALL of these subpostmasters were saying the same thing - that it was the NEW computer system & not them".
I don't how SOMEONE never broke cover & raised this. I would like to think I would say something. Or do CEO's, Lawyers, High Management think that they are employing a shed load of crooks and its "just they way it is".
I've still not heard this asked. And would love to hear the reply.0 -
I think you are trying to compare analysing/auditing a fundamentally paper-based system to a computer system (however imperfect). Apples and oranges.0
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This is what I was referring to. That system needs to be disbanded or the right removedman_at_milletts said:seth plum said:I think the Post Office had it’s own separate yet allowed judicial process going back to the days of Dick Turpin.
I raised this earlier in this thread. Similar to the military they have their own judicial system.1 -
Seems to me that there are about 4-5 Post Office staff that deserve prison.0
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WHAddick said:
This is what I was referring to. That system needs to be disbanded or the right removedman_at_milletts said:seth plum said:I think the Post Office had it’s own separate yet allowed judicial process going back to the days of Dick Turpin.
I raised this earlier in this thread. Similar to the military they have their own judicial system.
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man_at_milletts said:seth plum said:I think the Post Office had it’s own separate yet allowed judicial process going back to the days of Dick Turpin.
I raised this earlier in this thread. Similar to the military they have their own judicial system.
No they don't. The military have military courts - the Post Office (like any organisation or individual) can bring private prosecutions in the Crown Court.
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seth plum said:It has its own investigation branch - and the outcome of those investigations is used as evidence in a private prosecution. That is no different to you or I, Seth - if we felt we were victims of a crime but the police refuse to put it forward to the CPS then a private prosecution using our own gathered evidence can be brought. The difference is that you or I don't have our own investigation branch.The Post Office has no special authority to bring private prosecutions but instead pursued cases against its staff using its own investigation branch under the "general right in English law for any individuals and organisations to pursue private prosecutions", said the Financial Times.The convictions were in a Crown Court, not some Post Office kangaroo court.
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You are right.bobmunro said:seth plum said:It has its own investigation branch - and the outcome of those investigations is used as evidence in a private prosecution. That is no different to you or I, Seth - if we felt we were victims of a crime but the police refuse to put it forward to the CPS then a private prosecution using our own gathered evidence can be brought. The difference is that you or I don't have our own investigation branch.The Post Office has no special authority to bring private prosecutions but instead pursued cases against its staff using its own investigation branch under the "general right in English law for any individuals and organisations to pursue private prosecutions", said the Financial Times.The convictions were in a Crown Court, not some Post Office kangaroo court.
I don’t know whether historically the Post Office has been the forerunner of ‘private’ prosecutions.
Maybe the landscape is obscured because the Post Office had an established and forceful investigative branch way before formally organised police forces.0 -
bobmunro said:man_at_milletts said:seth plum said:I think the Post Office had it’s own separate yet allowed judicial process going back to the days of Dick Turpin.
I raised this earlier in this thread. Similar to the military they have their own judicial system.
No they don't. The military have military courts - the Post Office (like any organisation or individual) can bring private prosecutions in the Crown Court.
Thanks for clarifying that, that's the the bit I couldn't understand.
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Yeah the bastard that shoved a ripped-up soaking wet mess of brown paper that had once been a package through my letterbox for a start.MikeBaileysFanClub said:Seems to me that there are about 4-5 Post Office staff that deserve prison.5 -
Bunch of l
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That would be a Royal Mail not Post Office employee. So should be hanged obviously.Wheresmeticket said:
Yeah the bastard that shoved a ripped-up soaking wet mess of brown paper that had once been a package through my letterbox for a start.MikeBaileysFanClub said:Seems to me that there are about 4-5 Post Office staff that deserve prison.1 -
cafcfan said:
That would be a Royal Mail not Post Office employee. So should be hanged obviously.Wheresmeticket said:
Yeah the bastard that shoved a ripped-up soaking wet mess of brown paper that had once been a package through my letterbox for a start.MikeBaileysFanClub said:Seems to me that there are about 4-5 Post Office staff that deserve prison.
You're too lenient @cafcfan. Starting level is the disused warehouse for which Vennells is a prime candidate.
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It’s a difficult but compelling watch this.
I wonder how the families feel watching this? Pleased she’s being put firmly on the sport or outraged that she’s got a platform to talk her way out of it?2
