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Stupidity Pt2
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In my opinion the law should stipulate some period of time - say 6 years - post teacher / student relationship until anything is deemed ‘ok’ otherwise the opportunity to groom and abuse the power is far too big.Leuth said:These things can only really be determined on a case by case basis tbh. If the teacher isn't skeezy and respects the necessary boundaries I don't see a problem with it. At my school there was a maths teacher who married a former pupil of his, which always struck me as a bit dicey, even if he was a youngish teacher at the time. But hey, if everyone's an adult, then I don't really see the issue3 -
So would the law just be for teachers? Should a footballer be allowed to go for a post match beer with the manager…? An electrician apprentice go for a Friday drink with their boss…?Stu_of_Kunming said:
In my opinion the law should stipulate some period of time - say 6 years - post teacher / student relationship until anything is deemed ‘ok’ otherwise the opportunity to groom and abuse the power is far too big.Leuth said:These things can only really be determined on a case by case basis tbh. If the teacher isn't skeezy and respects the necessary boundaries I don't see a problem with it. At my school there was a maths teacher who married a former pupil of his, which always struck me as a bit dicey, even if he was a youngish teacher at the time. But hey, if everyone's an adult, then I don't really see the issue
If both parties are over 18, what’s the big deal.6 -
I honestly don’t know, the examples you give sound ridiculous and clearly should be allowed. Although in both situations it’s likely the relationship didn’t exist when the person was 14/15/16/17?ValleyGary said:
So would the law just be for teachers? Should a footballer be allowed to go for a post match beer with the manager…? An electrician apprentice go for a Friday drink with their boss…?Stu_of_Kunming said:
In my opinion the law should stipulate some period of time - say 6 years - post teacher / student relationship until anything is deemed ‘ok’ otherwise the opportunity to groom and abuse the power is far too big.Leuth said:These things can only really be determined on a case by case basis tbh. If the teacher isn't skeezy and respects the necessary boundaries I don't see a problem with it. At my school there was a maths teacher who married a former pupil of his, which always struck me as a bit dicey, even if he was a youngish teacher at the time. But hey, if everyone's an adult, then I don't really see the issue
If both parties are over 18, what’s the big deal.Homeroom Teachers can have - almost - total control over a students life for numerous years before they turn 18, just seems odds to then want to go boozing with them and a proper minefield.0 -
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If it was 1 on 1 then yeah maybe, but a group of students going for a beer with their teacher I don’t see it being a problem.4
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For me, its nothing to do with woke etc, but context and old fashioned common sense. If the teacher is meeting with a group they've obviously been working closely with, and they're meeting in a public place, can't see a problem. In any other scenario, where it's one on one and / or in private, alarm bells are gonna ring7
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It’s something we did on a school trip to Austria at 16, one lad got proper smashed too, felt totally fine at the time.ValleyGary said:If it was 1 on 1 then yeah maybe, but a group of students going for a beer with their teacher I don’t see it being a problem.Maybe being a primary school teacher just makes it all seem so much weirder. I also work in a country with next to no child protection laws, so there’s some very, very questionable people around.2 -
The balance of power in the relationship, particularly if the teacher knew the pupil from 14/15/16 years old is very different to having a beer with the manager of your Sunday league team.ValleyGary said:
So would the law just be for teachers? Should a footballer be allowed to go for a post match beer with the manager…? An electrician apprentice go for a Friday drink with their boss…?Stu_of_Kunming said:
In my opinion the law should stipulate some period of time - say 6 years - post teacher / student relationship until anything is deemed ‘ok’ otherwise the opportunity to groom and abuse the power is far too big.Leuth said:These things can only really be determined on a case by case basis tbh. If the teacher isn't skeezy and respects the necessary boundaries I don't see a problem with it. At my school there was a maths teacher who married a former pupil of his, which always struck me as a bit dicey, even if he was a youngish teacher at the time. But hey, if everyone's an adult, then I don't really see the issue
If both parties are over 18, what’s the big deal.Just turning 18 doesn’t magically change every relationship you have.2 -
I have seen a couple of memes that suggest the word woke is just used for things (anything) a certain demographic don't like. Doesn't seem far off the mark.
Anyway ROTW obviously changed it quickly, so sticking to the actual subject - it does seem rather petty, but as Grapevine said, maybe Mrs Stupid saved the teacher from a potential bananaskin?3 -
99.99999% of people aren’t nonces either.se9addick said:
The balance of power in the relationship, particularly if the teacher knew the pupil from 14/15/16 years old is very different to having a beer with the manager of your Sunday league team.ValleyGary said:
So would the law just be for teachers? Should a footballer be allowed to go for a post match beer with the manager…? An electrician apprentice go for a Friday drink with their boss…?Stu_of_Kunming said:
In my opinion the law should stipulate some period of time - say 6 years - post teacher / student relationship until anything is deemed ‘ok’ otherwise the opportunity to groom and abuse the power is far too big.Leuth said:These things can only really be determined on a case by case basis tbh. If the teacher isn't skeezy and respects the necessary boundaries I don't see a problem with it. At my school there was a maths teacher who married a former pupil of his, which always struck me as a bit dicey, even if he was a youngish teacher at the time. But hey, if everyone's an adult, then I don't really see the issue
If both parties are over 18, what’s the big deal.Just turning 18 doesn’t magically change every relationship you have.
I get it though, certainly the 1 on 1 thing. As a group, I don’t see an issue.3 - Sponsored links:
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I’d be amazed if any medical professional passed any judgement in regard to the duty of care obligation to an 18 year old member of an unconnected 3rd party whilst in a clinical setting.Grapevine49 said:It isn’t woke, it isn’t new. It is the law.
What any individual adult does in their own personal time is a matter for them.
However within in any formal organisation any person of authority/ influence be it in education, coaching or the normal workplace has a duty of care notably to those of a certain age in not putting them at risk. Does it happen? Of course it does. However if you as the person in authority choose to influence others you do so at YOUR own risk.
25yrs ago my brother was a Partner in a Civil Engineering Company who having won a very good contract, on the spur of the moment, chose to take the office staff out for a celebratory drink. A relatively new 18yr old clerk not wishing to be seen to be unsocial was coerced into joining the group and unfortunately drank to excess to the point of needing hospital attention.
My brother as the authority figure spent a very uncomfortable few hours at the hospital as the young man slowly recovered. The Medical staff made it very clear they were hugely unimpressed positioning he had breached a basic duty of care. Had the lad needed to have been kept in overnight they would have informed the police.
I suggest no two sets of circumstances are ever really the same (no one can really know how any young person can handle their drink) thus a risk exists. Whether you wish to take or mitigate such risk is entirely up to you.
The police would have had no interest, nor indeed a role.
But it added another paragraph, so all good.1 -
It’s not necessarily about the potential for teachers being nonces, although of course that would be a sub-optimal situation!ValleyGary said:
99.99999% of people aren’t nonces either.se9addick said:
The balance of power in the relationship, particularly if the teacher knew the pupil from 14/15/16 years old is very different to having a beer with the manager of your Sunday league team.ValleyGary said:
So would the law just be for teachers? Should a footballer be allowed to go for a post match beer with the manager…? An electrician apprentice go for a Friday drink with their boss…?Stu_of_Kunming said:
In my opinion the law should stipulate some period of time - say 6 years - post teacher / student relationship until anything is deemed ‘ok’ otherwise the opportunity to groom and abuse the power is far too big.Leuth said:These things can only really be determined on a case by case basis tbh. If the teacher isn't skeezy and respects the necessary boundaries I don't see a problem with it. At my school there was a maths teacher who married a former pupil of his, which always struck me as a bit dicey, even if he was a youngish teacher at the time. But hey, if everyone's an adult, then I don't really see the issue
If both parties are over 18, what’s the big deal.Just turning 18 doesn’t magically change every relationship you have.
I get it though, certainly the 1 on 1 thing. As a group, I don’t see an issue.I just think that where there are significant disparities in the balance of power in a relationship there should be clear boundaries. Outside of family relationships, teacher/student is probably the clearest example of where there’s a power imbalance in the relationship - that doesn’t magically change on the students 18th birthday.Additionally, going for a beer with a group of 18 year olds sounds absolutely horrendous!3 -
Would be interested in your stance if it were your daughter and a male teacher that knew her since she was 14 was asking her out for a pint because she'd 'done so well'.R0TW said:My son has just finished Bexley Grammar
Absolutely nailed his IB.
His maths teacher suggested they meet for a pint this evening.
Class all meet in pub to show their appreciation of his efforts in the class exceeding expectations.
Up pops Mrs Stupid who indicates this is not allowed under guidelines.
FFS, they are all 18 and grown adults.
Teacher comes in and apologised saying he wasn’t allowed to continue the get together.
If they all met in the street tomorrow and suggested having a pint, that would be deemed ok.
Thank fuck my son and his mates can see the idiocies in this schools stance.
Better to err on the side of caution with these things.3 -
But the teacher didn't ask to meet his son on his own it was the whole class so a completely different scenario.SELR_addicks said:
Would be interested in your stance if it were your daughter and a male teacher that knew her since she was 14 was asking her out for a pint because she'd 'done so well'.R0TW said:My son has just finished Bexley Grammar
Absolutely nailed his IB.
His maths teacher suggested they meet for a pint this evening.
Class all meet in pub to show their appreciation of his efforts in the class exceeding expectations.
Up pops Mrs Stupid who indicates this is not allowed under guidelines.
FFS, they are all 18 and grown adults.
Teacher comes in and apologised saying he wasn’t allowed to continue the get together.
If they all met in the street tomorrow and suggested having a pint, that would be deemed ok.
Thank fuck my son and his mates can see the idiocies in this schools stance.
Better to err on the side of caution with these things.8 -
There was a girl in my year who regularly socialised outside of school with one of our female PE teachers from about the age of 16.
We did find it weird.
But tbh we were all going to clubs from 13 so we weren't (or didn't feel like) kids.
The funniest bit was going into the pub opposite on our official last day of school with some teachers for a drink & the landlord going mad at us cos we'd been drinking in there for years & he never realised we actually went to that school 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
B will probably know who I'm on about.3 -
I spend more time with my students than any of their parents, I’d say the power balance might even be stronger.se9addick said:
It’s not necessarily about the potential for teachers being nonces, although of course that would be a sub-optimal situation!ValleyGary said:
99.99999% of people aren’t nonces either.se9addick said:
The balance of power in the relationship, particularly if the teacher knew the pupil from 14/15/16 years old is very different to having a beer with the manager of your Sunday league team.ValleyGary said:
So would the law just be for teachers? Should a footballer be allowed to go for a post match beer with the manager…? An electrician apprentice go for a Friday drink with their boss…?Stu_of_Kunming said:
In my opinion the law should stipulate some period of time - say 6 years - post teacher / student relationship until anything is deemed ‘ok’ otherwise the opportunity to groom and abuse the power is far too big.Leuth said:These things can only really be determined on a case by case basis tbh. If the teacher isn't skeezy and respects the necessary boundaries I don't see a problem with it. At my school there was a maths teacher who married a former pupil of his, which always struck me as a bit dicey, even if he was a youngish teacher at the time. But hey, if everyone's an adult, then I don't really see the issue
If both parties are over 18, what’s the big deal.Just turning 18 doesn’t magically change every relationship you have.
I get it though, certainly the 1 on 1 thing. As a group, I don’t see an issue.I just think that where there are significant disparities in the balance of power in a relationship there should be clear boundaries. Outside of family relationships, teacher/student is probably the clearest example of where there’s a power imbalance in the relationship - that doesn’t magically change on the students 18th birthday.Additionally, going for a beer with a group of 18 year olds sounds absolutely horrendous!0 -
In that case you should invite them out for a drink and see what you can get them to do!Stu_of_Kunming said:
I spend more time with my students than any of their parents, I’d say the power balance might even be stronger.se9addick said:
It’s not necessarily about the potential for teachers being nonces, although of course that would be a sub-optimal situation!ValleyGary said:
99.99999% of people aren’t nonces either.se9addick said:
The balance of power in the relationship, particularly if the teacher knew the pupil from 14/15/16 years old is very different to having a beer with the manager of your Sunday league team.ValleyGary said:
So would the law just be for teachers? Should a footballer be allowed to go for a post match beer with the manager…? An electrician apprentice go for a Friday drink with their boss…?Stu_of_Kunming said:
In my opinion the law should stipulate some period of time - say 6 years - post teacher / student relationship until anything is deemed ‘ok’ otherwise the opportunity to groom and abuse the power is far too big.Leuth said:These things can only really be determined on a case by case basis tbh. If the teacher isn't skeezy and respects the necessary boundaries I don't see a problem with it. At my school there was a maths teacher who married a former pupil of his, which always struck me as a bit dicey, even if he was a youngish teacher at the time. But hey, if everyone's an adult, then I don't really see the issue
If both parties are over 18, what’s the big deal.Just turning 18 doesn’t magically change every relationship you have.
I get it though, certainly the 1 on 1 thing. As a group, I don’t see an issue.I just think that where there are significant disparities in the balance of power in a relationship there should be clear boundaries. Outside of family relationships, teacher/student is probably the clearest example of where there’s a power imbalance in the relationship - that doesn’t magically change on the students 18th birthday.Additionally, going for a beer with a group of 18 year olds sounds absolutely horrendous!0 -
No. I listened to the BBC podcast series created by Matthew Syed that investigated the origins of the word.addick19 said:
Are you serious? Or are you another who sees racism everywhere? God help us all.seth plum said:To be woke is to be prepared to stand up to racism.
Have you heard it by any chance?4 -
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I thought the word "woke" was originally intended to label people who got offended by words like "manhole" or "man size" tissues, and has then evolved from there.
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Correct.Gribbo said:I thought the word "woke" was originally intended to label people who got offended by words like "manhole" or "man size" tissues, and has then evolved from there.
It means different things to different people.
It does not just mean one thing despite what a certain poster claims.5 -
I think what you’re describing used to be called ‘political correctness’ or ‘political correctness gone mad’.Gribbo said:I thought the word "woke" was originally intended to label people who got offended by words like "manhole" or "man size" tissues, and has then evolved from there.
The original meaning of the word ‘woke’ is covered in the podcasts I mentioned above.0 -
Is Syed the official arbiter on this then?seth plum said:
I think what you’re describing used to be called ‘political correctness’ or ‘political correctness gone mad’.Gribbo said:I thought the word "woke" was originally intended to label people who got offended by words like "manhole" or "man size" tissues, and has then evolved from there.
The original meaning of the word ‘woke’ is covered in the podcasts I mentioned above.2 -
Interesting that you mention the "origins" of words there. Because language is a fluid thing that is constantly evolving and the use and meaning of words can change over time and mean different things in different contexts - sometimes used completely validly in a context opposite to their original meaning. "Sick" is a good example of this in recent times.seth plum said:
No. I listened to the BBC podcast series created by Matthew Syed that investigated the origins of the word.addick19 said:
Are you serious? Or are you another who sees racism everywhere? God help us all.seth plum said:To be woke is to be prepared to stand up to racism.
Have you heard it by any chance?
"C*nt" is also a word that has different meanings depending on context.
But you know all that really.
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Someone's up from there afternoon nap4
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This isn't 'woke' unless by woke you mean 'anything I don't like'. It is ridiculous though and loads of organisations are shot through with petty bureaucrats who only care about rules. Anyone who resorts to stopping things like this is on some sort of power trip.2
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Yes language is a fluid thing. Does that also indicate that any word can mean anything an individual chooses it to mean, or does the validity of a word need some kind of agreement between those who share a common language?Off_it said:
Interesting that you mention the "origins" of words there. Because language is a fluid thing that is constantly evolving and the use and meaning of words can change over time and mean different things in different contexts - sometimes used completely validly in a context opposite to their original meaning. "Sick" is a good example of this in recent times.seth plum said:
No. I listened to the BBC podcast series created by Matthew Syed that investigated the origins of the word.addick19 said:
Are you serious? Or are you another who sees racism everywhere? God help us all.seth plum said:To be woke is to be prepared to stand up to racism.
Have you heard it by any chance?
"C*nt" is also a word that has different meanings depending on context.
But you know all that really.
If a word means everything, then it hardly means anything.
But you know all that really.0
This discussion has been closed.
