Electric Cars

PragueAddick said:

fenlandaddick said:

Tesla have the lead on charging infrastructure. If I need to supercharge then I set the map to the nearest supercharger. If re-routes me if they are all busy. The car preconditions the battery so I get maximum charging. I turn up, reverse in, plug in the car and off it goes. No messing with cards or different apps etc. Other manufacturers need to catch-up, been caught napping.

I appreciate the guy in charge of Tesla is a bit of an acquired taste. The Tesla products are very good.

I would also say the latest models are a very good product from the perspective of a car for driver and means of transport. The earlier models are less so.

Not if reliability is important to you, according to Which magazine and its panel of 8,000 owners. All the reliability of a Buick circa 1999, by the sound of it.

PragueAddick said:

swordfish said:

PragueAddick said:

fenlandaddick said:

Tesla have the lead on charging infrastructure. If I need to supercharge then I set the map to the nearest supercharger. If re-routes me if they are all busy. The car preconditions the battery so I get maximum charging. I turn up, reverse in, plug in the car and off it goes. No messing with cards or different apps etc. Other manufacturers need to catch-up, been caught napping.

I appreciate the guy in charge of Tesla is a bit of an acquired taste. The Tesla products are very good.

I would also say the latest models are a very good product from the perspective of a car for driver and means of transport. The earlier models are less so.

Not if reliability is important to you, according to Which magazine and its panel of 8,000 owners. All the reliability of a Buick circa 1999, by the sound of it.

But my neighbour's has had his Tesla a while with no problems I'm aware of, so Which must be wrong 😉

I've never driven a Tesla. I daresay that if I did, I'd describe it as fun. But this year I've been in a few as a passenger - the excellent Czech ride-share app, Liftago, lets me choose an Eco option so whenever a Tesla came up I grabbed it. Meh. Drabsville Arizona. Upfront the driver's having a great time of course, playing with his Tesla iPad; me, I can't wait to get back to the comfort and calm of my plug-in hybrid DS4, too small to be a cabbies choice but a different planet  in overall ambient comfort for all passengers. My first boss in marketing once said to me "they are all advertising the car's exterior, but 98% of the time as a driver/passenger, it's the interior you're looking at."

bobmunro said:

Carter said:

PragueAddick said:

swordfish said:

PragueAddick said:

fenlandaddick said:

Tesla have the lead on charging infrastructure. If I need to supercharge then I set the map to the nearest supercharger. If re-routes me if they are all busy. The car preconditions the battery so I get maximum charging. I turn up, reverse in, plug in the car and off it goes. No messing with cards or different apps etc. Other manufacturers need to catch-up, been caught napping.

I appreciate the guy in charge of Tesla is a bit of an acquired taste. The Tesla products are very good.

I would also say the latest models are a very good product from the perspective of a car for driver and means of transport. The earlier models are less so.

Not if reliability is important to you, according to Which magazine and its panel of 8,000 owners. All the reliability of a Buick circa 1999, by the sound of it.

But my neighbour's has had his Tesla a while with no problems I'm aware of, so Which must be wrong 😉

I've never driven a Tesla. I daresay that if I did, I'd describe it as fun. But this year I've been in a few as a passenger - the excellent Czech ride-share app, Liftago, lets me choose an Eco option so whenever a Tesla came up I grabbed it. Meh. Drabsville Arizona. Upfront the driver's having a great time of course, playing with his Tesla iPad; me, I can't wait to get back to the comfort and calm of my plug-in hybrid DS4, too small to be a cabbies choice but a different planet  in overall ambient comfort for all passengers. My first boss in marketing once said to me "they are all advertising the car's exterior, but 98% of the time as a driver/passenger, it's the interior you're looking at."

I say this a lot. As the driver the interior has to be good, its one of the reasons I've never owned a BMW. 

That's surprising. There may be many reasons why you wouldn't drive a BMW but they make some of the very best interiors in my view. We are all different of course and beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

swordfish said:

PragueAddick said:

fenlandaddick said:

Tesla have the lead on charging infrastructure. If I need to supercharge then I set the map to the nearest supercharger. If re-routes me if they are all busy. The car preconditions the battery so I get maximum charging. I turn up, reverse in, plug in the car and off it goes. No messing with cards or different apps etc. Other manufacturers need to catch-up, been caught napping.

I appreciate the guy in charge of Tesla is a bit of an acquired taste. The Tesla products are very good.

I would also say the latest models are a very good product from the perspective of a car for driver and means of transport. The earlier models are less so.

Not if reliability is important to you, according to Which magazine and its panel of 8,000 owners. All the reliability of a Buick circa 1999, by the sound of it.

But my neighbour's has had his Tesla a while with no problems I'm aware of, so Which must be wrong 😉

letthegoodtimesroll said:

CafcWest said:

fenlandaddick said:

Carter said:

valleynick66 said:

EVs will have some sort of tariff on charging introduced to replace lost petrol / diesel levies. 

I assume this will be sooner rather than later. 

For me the base cost of the car needs to reduce before there will be a larger uptake as the savings today on ‘mileage’ won’t be there for ever. 

Its two-fold, there is the price of the new vehicles that is prohibitive but its also the doubt about the lifespan and performance etc of used ones and they are still a long way from being affordable. A bit like solar panels. I'd make it mandatory for all new construction to have solar roofs however the initial cost is one of those things that you need capital or a fast and loose approach to finance to take up and then see the savings over time. 

Cost is falling all the time. A reasonable system is less than people spend on a new kitchen or even bathroom

The 10 month old Hyundai EV I've just bought (ex-demonstrator) came with a free installatrion of a home charger, as long as you bought on finance which I thought was a good offer (all Hyundai EVs qualify) - not sure how long the offer os on for.

The charger and the installation must have a value/cost. It’s likely both are covered on the cost of the EV and/or the cost of the finance. 

bobmunro said:

Carter said:

PragueAddick said:

swordfish said:

PragueAddick said:

fenlandaddick said:

Tesla have the lead on charging infrastructure. If I need to supercharge then I set the map to the nearest supercharger. If re-routes me if they are all busy. The car preconditions the battery so I get maximum charging. I turn up, reverse in, plug in the car and off it goes. No messing with cards or different apps etc. Other manufacturers need to catch-up, been caught napping.

I appreciate the guy in charge of Tesla is a bit of an acquired taste. The Tesla products are very good.

I would also say the latest models are a very good product from the perspective of a car for driver and means of transport. The earlier models are less so.

Not if reliability is important to you, according to Which magazine and its panel of 8,000 owners. All the reliability of a Buick circa 1999, by the sound of it.

But my neighbour's has had his Tesla a while with no problems I'm aware of, so Which must be wrong 😉

I've never driven a Tesla. I daresay that if I did, I'd describe it as fun. But this year I've been in a few as a passenger - the excellent Czech ride-share app, Liftago, lets me choose an Eco option so whenever a Tesla came up I grabbed it. Meh. Drabsville Arizona. Upfront the driver's having a great time of course, playing with his Tesla iPad; me, I can't wait to get back to the comfort and calm of my plug-in hybrid DS4, too small to be a cabbies choice but a different planet  in overall ambient comfort for all passengers. My first boss in marketing once said to me "they are all advertising the car's exterior, but 98% of the time as a driver/passenger, it's the interior you're looking at."

I say this a lot. As the driver the interior has to be good, its one of the reasons I've never owned a BMW. 

That's surprising. There may be many reasons why you wouldn't drive a BMW but they make some of the very best interiors in my view. We are all different of course and beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

MrOneLung said:

swordfish said:

If a rogue elephant is left running amok in the Whitehouse soon, we can look forward to another acceleration in the rate of US carbon emissions as he fires up for more fossil fuel exploration and extraction to make America great again. 

An anecdotal EV infrastructure observation from my parish, a small town with one petrol station next to a supermarket with EV charging points (super fast ones too I think) I've driven past them countless times and on only a handful of occasions have I seen any cars using them. If I was to buy an EV I'd have easy access to charging within a mile of home. 

At 3 to 4 times the price of charging at home 

red10 said:

@chizz you stated "for more than one million people" in your reply. Hence me looking up the UK population in my response !!. However, I think we have to accept, given that we have around 30 million dwellings in the UK, some of which have no cars and some have multiple cars we seriously have an infrastructure issue to resolve. Not withstanding the huge outlay on the new vehicles which I suspect a large number of the population cannot afford and in addition to how the hell do we generate the electricity to support it, not an easy fix.

AddicksAddict said:

letthegoodtimesroll said:

CafcWest said:

fenlandaddick said:

Carter said:

valleynick66 said:

EVs will have some sort of tariff on charging introduced to replace lost petrol / diesel levies. 

I assume this will be sooner rather than later. 

For me the base cost of the car needs to reduce before there will be a larger uptake as the savings today on ‘mileage’ won’t be there for ever. 

Its two-fold, there is the price of the new vehicles that is prohibitive but its also the doubt about the lifespan and performance etc of used ones and they are still a long way from being affordable. A bit like solar panels. I'd make it mandatory for all new construction to have solar roofs however the initial cost is one of those things that you need capital or a fast and loose approach to finance to take up and then see the savings over time. 

Cost is falling all the time. A reasonable system is less than people spend on a new kitchen or even bathroom

The 10 month old Hyundai EV I've just bought (ex-demonstrator) came with a free installatrion of a home charger, as long as you bought on finance which I thought was a good offer (all Hyundai EVs qualify) - not sure how long the offer os on for.

The charger and the installation must have a value/cost. It’s likely both are covered on the cost of the EV and/or the cost of the finance. 

If you’ve got the capital, buy on finance, get the free home charger, cancel the finance within two weeks and pay the cash. 

ShootersHillGuru said:

Chizz said:

letthegoodtimesroll said:

Chizz said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

All things being equal I’m sure that within the next five years EV cars will have ranges that make “range anxiety” a thing of the past. That’s the point at which I will change to EV. I still don’t believe that the issues regarding on street parking for millions of homes will have been resolved but I’m sure it will be better than it currently is. Even so. It will only be the newest EV’s that will have extended ranges so for probably ten years or so ranges for the bulk of the nations EV fleet will remain in my view inadequate in terms of range.

inadequate for what or for whom? 

Everyone. Every claim about how far a charge will go is missing the point. It’s how far the vehicle will go in certain driving conditions and on a fully charged battery, whereas nobody I suspect recharges their battery before every journey and then drives at a perfect way and without using heaters, lights etc to get the maximum range from that charge. Basically, they can’t just jump in their vehicle every time and assume they will not have to stop and recharge the battery at some point. The same could be said about needing petrol or diesel but stopping and filling up the tank is not something that’s going to inconvenience or particularly delay any journey.

"EVs will remain inadequate for..." everyone? Really? 

35% of UK car journeys are under 2km. 
Less than a third of UK car journeys are more than 5km. 
The average journey length is 8.1miles. 
On average, people spend just over an hour a day travelling, including 35 minutes by car.  

These datapoints don't really lead to a conclusion that "EVs remain inadequate for everyone". 

They’re obviously not but they are for some people. As far as I’m concerned EV’s are the way forward until and if something better comes along. Will I get one ? Almost certainly, but it will probably be my car after next when both technology and infrastructure are better. I think I’m in quite a significant number of people thinking exactly this.

JamesSeed said:

.ShootersHillGuru said:

All things being equal I’m sure that within the next five years EV cars will have ranges that make “range anxiety” a thing of the past. That’s the point at which I will change to EV. I still don’t believe that the issues regarding on street parking for millions of homes will have been resolved but I’m sure it will be better than it currently is. Even so. It will only be the newest EV’s that will have extended ranges so for probably ten years or so ranges for the bulk of the nations EV fleet will remain in my view inadequate in terms of range.

I know quite a few people who have EVs, and they don’t really have range anxiety. One of them drives to Newcastle regularly, and he has to stop for twenty minutes, which he claims he would anyway, for a break. He doesn’t charge all the way, because he can charge overnight at his parents’ house more cheaply. Well free actually, because his parents don’t charge him. His car has a range of about 230 miles. 
 

If I was a travelling salesman driving hundreds of miles every day, with no time to stop for twenty minutes, well then I’d probably stick with petrol for now. 

But otherwise I take the view that it’s worth changing for the decreased running and servicing costs, and the environmental benefits. Plus the acceleration and quieter journeys. I don’t make long journeys any more, so it’s a no brainer really. 

I’ll still miss my Skoda Yeti though. 

guinnessaddick said:

JamesSeed said:

.ShootersHillGuru said:

All things being equal I’m sure that within the next five years EV cars will have ranges that make “range anxiety” a thing of the past. That’s the point at which I will change to EV. I still don’t believe that the issues regarding on street parking for millions of homes will have been resolved but I’m sure it will be better than it currently is. Even so. It will only be the newest EV’s that will have extended ranges so for probably ten years or so ranges for the bulk of the nations EV fleet will remain in my view inadequate in terms of range.

I know quite a few people who have EVs, and they don’t really have range anxiety. One of them drives to Newcastle regularly, and he has to stop for twenty minutes, which he claims he would anyway, for a break. He doesn’t charge all the way, because he can charge overnight at his parents’ house more cheaply. Well free actually, because his parents don’t charge him. His car has a range of about 230 miles. 
 

If I was a travelling salesman driving hundreds of miles every day, with no time to stop for twenty minutes, well then I’d probably stick with petrol for now. 

But otherwise I take the view that it’s worth changing for the decreased running and servicing costs, and the environmental benefits. Plus the acceleration and quieter journeys. I don’t make long journeys any more, so it’s a no brainer really. 

I’ll still miss my Skoda Yeti though. 

There’s a 2025 Yeti coming out .

JamesSeed said:

red10 said:

JamesSeed said:

red10 said:

@chizz you stated "for more than one million people" in your reply. Hence me looking up the UK population in my response !!. However, I think we have to accept, given that we have around 30 million dwellings in the UK, some of which have no cars and some have multiple cars we seriously have an infrastructure issue to resolve. Not withstanding the huge outlay on the new vehicles which I suspect a large number of the population cannot afford and in addition to how the hell do we generate the electricity to support it, not an easy fix.

Where do people get this information from? The oil industry is spreading disinformation about EVs, that they’re out of reach financially, that they burst into flames as soon as your back is turned, that there are no chargers, that they destroy roads and are 40% heavier than petrol cars, that the batteries wear out in a couple of years and even that there isn’t enough electricity around everyone bought electric cars. (The energy industry has debunked this myth). 

Living where I do, with 4 chargers in a 5 mile radius I would need something that could do 250 to 300 odd miles before I could consider it, so that probably takes me into Tesla country and to tow a caravan on top it won't be cheap. Not sure where you get your electricity from but the last time I looked it was pretty damn expensive just to run the house.

MG4 EV (£21,000)

‘Battery range up to 329 miles

The MG4 is one of the least expensive EVs on sale now. Just because it’s a bargain, though, it doesn’t mean that it lacks quality: it was our Carwow Car of the Year in 2023. Sharp exterior design and a decent-quality cabin are good early indications, then you start to notice – and be impressed by – all the equipment that’s fitted as standard. The infotainment system isn’t the best, and you’ll have to turn the volume up to drown out some road noise at high speeds, but a range of up to 323 miles cements its place as one of the best value EV on the market.’

Also goes on to say interior feels cheap and boot space smaller than rivals. It’s a no from me.