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When something is implemented that makes your life even slightly worse, it’s always good to know why it happened isn’t it?ShootersHillGuru said:
Well that’s fairly pertinent to a discussion on new documentation and fees where none existed before. It doesn’t need to focus on the whys or wherefores. That’s now history. What I wanted to find out from my original post was how it’s going to impact travellers not why.MrOneLung said:
Must have forgotten when you typed : I remember when you were just waived thru 🤦♂️ShootersHillGuru said:Was hoping this wouldn’t deteriorate into a Brexit thing. If it does, it’s a pity. I was hoping that that it would lead to how this was going to be implemented and what it means for the average traveller.2 -
Can't see why this is something to laugh at @SporadicAddick, money which could have been better spent elsewhere, has instead gone to projects which haven't benefitted the country, but to mitigate the drawbacks of removing freedom of movement.ME14addick said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y3wq94lneo
Removing freedom of movement has been very costly for the UK, over £35 million spent to 31 March 2024, to make the M20 ready for Operation Brock and every time it is implemented it costs £250,000.
Government has given £10.5 million to Port of Dover, Eurotunnel & Eurostar St. Pancras. Eurostar trains no longer serve Ashford International because of border checks. Eurotunnel has spent £70m to provide the booths that people will use for the biometric checks.
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If it’s a consequence of Brexit, then it’s entirely relevant to say so. It’s just as naive as Brexit itself to think otherwise.ShootersHillGuru said:Was hoping this wouldn’t deteriorate into a Brexit thing. If it does, it’s a pity. I was hoping that that it would lead to how this was going to be implemented and what it means for the average traveller.0 -
Operation Brock (previously Operation Stack) was introduced in 1988. "The most common causes of Operation Stack are severe weather that either cancels or restricts ferry services, industrial action at the French ports of Calais, Dunkirk, and Boulogne, and electrical failures in the Channel Tunnel."ME14addick said:
Can't see why this is something to laugh at @SporadicAddick, money which could have been better spent elsewhere, has instead gone to projects which haven't benefitted the country, but to mitigate the drawbacks of removing freedom of movement.ME14addick said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y3wq94lneo
Removing freedom of movement has been very costly for the UK, over £35 million spent to 31 March 2024, to make the M20 ready for Operation Brock and every time it is implemented it costs £250,000.
Government has given £10.5 million to Port of Dover, Eurotunnel & Eurostar St. Pancras. Eurostar trains no longer serve Ashford International because of border checks. Eurotunnel has spent £70m to provide the booths that people will use for the biometric checks.
Eurostar trains stopped calling at Ashford at the outset of Covid. They haven't restarted due to cost and demand.
Your post was misleading, which I find funny.5 -
The result of the vote in reality is what you are getting.seth plum said:
Why personalise and say snide stuff about straws nurses and medication?Bailey said:Seth, I should point out that from my own experience, most people outside of Northern Ireland didn't take into consideration the 'Northern Ireland protocol', it certainly wasn't on the ballot paper and probably backs up my point that people generally vote from a personal standpoint without deep consideration as to the ramifications of their standpoint and eventual voting intention. Then again, if you believe that Brexit has failed or at least not achieved it's supposed benefits to the country because Northern Ireland is being treated differently, then would you kindly put down those straws you've been clutching and wait for Nursey to bring round your meds.
If what I have written is wrong then say why.
Your opinion is that people didn’t consider the ramification of their vote.
I am not interested in why people voted the way they did, but the result of the vote in reality.
You should instead be interested in why people voted the why they did because then you might understand something of the reality.
The reality is that the media and politicians don’t now, and during the pre-Brexit vote didn’t, tell you the truth.
The truth is out there but you have to research it. Sadly, most people go by the media’s lies, and even worse social media.
It seems to me that you, Seth, like many many people, voted based on lies and nonsense promises, which is why now you all say the equally nonsensical ’this isn’t the Brexit I voted for.’
As Thereas May said ’Leave means Leave’ but the problem is that many many 'Leavers’ didn’t know what Leave meant because of the lack of true explanation before the vote. Many ’remainers’ tried to point it out but were shouted down, or worse, not given air time.1 -
That is incorrect. The CEO of Eurostar told a Parliamentary Committee that the Border Force refused to send staff back to Ashford or Ebbsfleet other than by taking existing staff from St.P. I submitted FOIs to the Home Office seeking to establish the extra costs involved, because there was only ever one border guard on duty at Ebbsfleet and he knocked off at 2 p.m. My requests were naturally refused on the grounds of national security🤣SporadicAddick said:
Operation Brock (previously Operation Stack) was introduced in 1988. "The most common causes of Operation Stack are severe weather that either cancels or restricts ferry services, industrial action at the French ports of Calais, Dunkirk, and Boulogne, and electrical failures in the Channel Tunnel."ME14addick said:
Can't see why this is something to laugh at @SporadicAddick, money which could have been better spent elsewhere, has instead gone to projects which haven't benefitted the country, but to mitigate the drawbacks of removing freedom of movement.ME14addick said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y3wq94lneo
Removing freedom of movement has been very costly for the UK, over £35 million spent to 31 March 2024, to make the M20 ready for Operation Brock and every time it is implemented it costs £250,000.
Government has given £10.5 million to Port of Dover, Eurotunnel & Eurostar St. Pancras. Eurostar trains no longer serve Ashford International because of border checks. Eurotunnel has spent £70m to provide the booths that people will use for the biometric checks.
Eurostar trains stopped calling at Ashford at the outset of Covid. They haven't restarted due to cost and demand.
Your post was misleading, which I find funny.6 -
Operation Brock is entirely different from Operation stack and required an enormous amount of infrastructure changes on the M20. Most of the problems to which you refer occurred prior to the UK leaving the EU.SporadicAddick said:
Operation Brock (previously Operation Stack) was introduced in 1988. "The most common causes of Operation Stack are severe weather that either cancels or restricts ferry services, industrial action at the French ports of Calais, Dunkirk, and Boulogne, and electrical failures in the Channel Tunnel."ME14addick said:
Can't see why this is something to laugh at @SporadicAddick, money which could have been better spent elsewhere, has instead gone to projects which haven't benefitted the country, but to mitigate the drawbacks of removing freedom of movement.ME14addick said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y3wq94lneo
Removing freedom of movement has been very costly for the UK, over £35 million spent to 31 March 2024, to make the M20 ready for Operation Brock and every time it is implemented it costs £250,000.
Government has given £10.5 million to Port of Dover, Eurotunnel & Eurostar St. Pancras. Eurostar trains no longer serve Ashford International because of border checks. Eurotunnel has spent £70m to provide the booths that people will use for the biometric checks.
Eurostar trains stopped calling at Ashford at the outset of Covid. They haven't restarted due to cost and demand.
Your post was misleading, which I find funny.
I have a huge bundle of correspondence with National Highways going back to 2018 and in those days the project on the M20 was known as 'M20 Temporary Solution' as it was anticipated that the UK leaving the EU would cause problem at the ports, and HGVs needed to be stored somewhere to stop Dover becoming jammed up.
Since we left the EU, Operation Brock has been implemented many times in anticipation of delays at the ports, however it has not been put into operation for problems such as weather or strikes in France, of which there have been very few. On the odd occasion when traffic management has been needed on the M20 at short notice, the old Operation Stack has been put in place instead. This requires complete closure of the coastbound M20 to non HGV traffic, and pushes it onto the A20. Operation Brock can only be used when it is known that there may be delays at the ports.
You are incorrect in stating that cost is only the cause of Eurostar not stopping at Ashford International. Eurostar Trains did stop during the early days of the pandemic, but at that time we had only just left the EU.Explaining the firm is concentrating its efforts on stabilising the business, a spokesman said: “Eurostar services will not stop at Ebbsfleet or Ashford International or go direct to Disney in 2024, and we cannot make any commitment for 2025.
“Even though we are close to getting back on track, with 11 million passengers travelling with us on our cross-channel routes in 2023, we will continue to face the financial consequences of the pandemic for a number of years.
“Borders have also become more complex, and the expected launch of the EU’s Entry/Exit System invites us to caution.”
Eurostar’s general secretary Gareth Williams previously said the firm wants to bring its services back to Kent - but the impact of Brexit and "hundreds of millions" of pounds of Covid debt means it cannot yet afford to.
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/eurostar-confirms-no-kent-stops-in-2024-299705/
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It was a joke Seth, not meant to personalise or abuse you, just pointing out that the NI protocol has nothing to with the failure or success of Brexit, you seemed to be suggesting it did, which is a wild assumption, if that is what you are suggesting. I apologise unreservedly. My point of view is it's failure is because we are a net importer of goods and placed tarriffs on 60% of those goods. We have an ageing workforce thar couldn't take up the gap that the loss of European workers, people were told lies about their individual industries benefiting from Brexit, fisheries and farmers spring to mind and lastly but not least the European Research Group, a minority group who gained traction in the Conservative party for no reason that I can find, have no answers to how to benefit from Brexit or how to cure the problems.seth plum said:
Why personalise and say snide stuff about straws nurses and medication?Bailey said:Seth, I should point out that from my own experience, most people outside of Northern Ireland didn't take into consideration the 'Northern Ireland protocol', it certainly wasn't on the ballot paper and probably backs up my point that people generally vote from a personal standpoint without deep consideration as to the ramifications of their standpoint and eventual voting intention. Then again, if you believe that Brexit has failed or at least not achieved it's supposed benefits to the country because Northern Ireland is being treated differently, then would you kindly put down those straws you've been clutching and wait for Nursey to bring round your meds.
If what I have written is wrong then say why.
Your opinion is that people didn’t consider the ramification of their vote.
I am not interested in why people voted the way they did, but the result of the vote in reality.1 -
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@SporadicAddick this is a copy of a letter forwarded to me after I contacted my MP Helen Whately. In it you will see that the 'M20 Temporary Solution' was required for the urgent need to prepare for the UK leaving the EU in 2019. In the end it became a permanent mitigation at great cost to the tax payer.
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I was hoping the same … obviously a forlorn hope … same as alwaysShootersHillGuru said:Was hoping this wouldn’t deteriorate into a Brexit thing. If it does, it’s a pity. I was hoping that that it would lead to how this was going to be implemented and what it means for the average traveller.0 -
Most of the discussion is on the consequences of losing freedom of movement after Brexit. It's difficult not to have discussion about the new border checks without making reference to Brexit.stonemuse said:
I was hoping the same … obviously a forlorn hope … same as alwaysShootersHillGuru said:Was hoping this wouldn’t deteriorate into a Brexit thing. If it does, it’s a pity. I was hoping that that it would lead to how this was going to be implemented and what it means for the average traveller.4 -
I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
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The impact of Operation Brock & the impact on Maidstone, Ashford, Dover and surrounding areas of Kent has been enormous and very expensive for the tax payer.Huskaris said:I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
Ask the long suffering people of Dover if the impact on their lives has been miniscule and you will get a very strong reply.4 -
Because that is no longer seen as undesirable in the US.cafcfan said:The EES is supposed to be coming in before ETIAS. (The fingerprinting and facial recognition bit). All the shiny new machines were lined up still in their protective packaging at Lanzarote ACE airport last week. No where near ready. It was supposed to be 10 November but apparently France, Holland and Germany couldn't get their act together. No new date has been announced. As for ETIAS, it was supposed to be launched in 2020,then 2022, 2023 and 2024. So I wouldn't hold my breath.
If the application process is anywhere near the same as the US ESTA, it will be very straightforward. (They don't even ask you if you are a member of the Nazi party anymore).5 -
The main impact is due to the number of people who live in the South East. Take a lorry breaking down on the A2 or in the tunnel place grinds to a halt. That costs hundreds of thousands of pounds too.ME14addick said:
The impact of Operation Brock & the impact on Maidstone, Ashford, Dover and surrounding areas of Kent has been enormous and very expensive for the tax payer.Huskaris said:I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
Ask the long suffering people of Dover if the impact on their lives has been miniscule and you will get a very strong reply.
Perhaps if we stopped flooding those areas with people that might help.0 -
Operation Brock which has cost over £35million so far, has nothing to do with the number of people in the south east, it is to mitigate delays at Dover which have grown longer since we left the EU.Chippycafc said:
The main impact is due to the number of people who live in the South East. Take a lorry breaking down on the A2 or in the tunnel place grinds to a halt. That costs hundreds of thousands of pounds too.ME14addick said:
The impact of Operation Brock & the impact on Maidstone, Ashford, Dover and surrounding areas of Kent has been enormous and very expensive for the tax payer.Huskaris said:I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
Ask the long suffering people of Dover if the impact on their lives has been miniscule and you will get a very strong reply.
Perhaps if we stopped flooding those areas with people that might help.4 -
This was the question. Nothing else. SHG wanted clarification on the process not the history!ShootersHillGuru said:Anyone got an inside track on this. I remember when you just got waved through. 🤦🏻♂️From the EU website :When filling out the application, you will be asked to provide the following information:
- Personal information including your name(s), surname, date and place of birth, nationality, home address, parents’ first names, email address and phone number;
- Travel document details;
- Details about your level of education and current occupation;
- Details about your intended travel and stay in any of the countries requiring ETIAS;
- Details about any criminal convictions, any past travels to war or conflict zones, and whether you have recently been subject of a decision requiring you to leave the territory of any country.
You will need to declare that the data you submit and the statements you make are correct. You will also need to confirm that you understand the entry conditions to the territories of the European countries requiring ETIAS and that you may be requested to provide the relevant supporting documents each time you cross the external border.
https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/what-you-need-apply_en
https://www.abta.com/tips-and-advice/planning-and-booking-a-holiday/upcoming-changes-travel-europe
But some just cannot resist.I can buy a ticket to a Charlton game or to the theatre without having to know the history of the Valley or the theatre company.I can pay for a visa to Indonesia without having to know why it is required.But apparently that changes with EU travel 🤣4 -
Extra border checks are required as a result of leaving the EU, that is indisputable. Discussions around that are perfectly reasonable. Some do seem very reluctant to be reminded of the actual cause of these extra checks.stonemuse said:
This was the question. Nothing else. SHG wanted clarification on the process not the history!ShootersHillGuru said:Anyone got an inside track on this. I remember when you just got waved through. 🤦🏻♂️From the EU website :When filling out the application, you will be asked to provide the following information:
- Personal information including your name(s), surname, date and place of birth, nationality, home address, parents’ first names, email address and phone number;
- Travel document details;
- Details about your level of education and current occupation;
- Details about your intended travel and stay in any of the countries requiring ETIAS;
- Details about any criminal convictions, any past travels to war or conflict zones, and whether you have recently been subject of a decision requiring you to leave the territory of any country.
You will need to declare that the data you submit and the statements you make are correct. You will also need to confirm that you understand the entry conditions to the territories of the European countries requiring ETIAS and that you may be requested to provide the relevant supporting documents each time you cross the external border.
https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/what-you-need-apply_en
https://www.abta.com/tips-and-advice/planning-and-booking-a-holiday/upcoming-changes-travel-europe
But some just cannot resist.I can buy a ticket to a Charlton game or to the theatre without having to know the history of the Valley or the theatre company.I can pay for a visa to Indonesia without having to know why it is required.But apparently that changes with EU travel 🤣3 -
How did the long suffering people of Dover vote in the referendum?ME14addick said:
The impact of Operation Brock & the impact on Maidstone, Ashford, Dover and surrounding areas of Kent has been enormous and very expensive for the tax payer.Huskaris said:I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
Ask the long suffering people of Dover if the impact on their lives has been miniscule and you will get a very strong reply.0 - Sponsored links:
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It's probably an indication of the feelings borne from that vote. It was a choice and people made it for better or worse, I agree, to discuss it here probably is fruitless but that's also borne from people's frustration in it not being discussed or addressed anywhere else, especially by the politicians.stonemuse said:
This was the question. Nothing else. SHG wanted clarification on the process not the history!ShootersHillGuru said:Anyone got an inside track on this. I remember when you just got waved through. 🤦🏻♂️From the EU website :When filling out the application, you will be asked to provide the following information:
- Personal information including your name(s), surname, date and place of birth, nationality, home address, parents’ first names, email address and phone number;
- Travel document details;
- Details about your level of education and current occupation;
- Details about your intended travel and stay in any of the countries requiring ETIAS;
- Details about any criminal convictions, any past travels to war or conflict zones, and whether you have recently been subject of a decision requiring you to leave the territory of any country.
You will need to declare that the data you submit and the statements you make are correct. You will also need to confirm that you understand the entry conditions to the territories of the European countries requiring ETIAS and that you may be requested to provide the relevant supporting documents each time you cross the external border.
https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/what-you-need-apply_en
https://www.abta.com/tips-and-advice/planning-and-booking-a-holiday/upcoming-changes-travel-europe
But some just cannot resist.I can buy a ticket to a Charlton game or to the theatre without having to know the history of the Valley or the theatre company.I can pay for a visa to Indonesia without having to know why it is required.But apparently that changes with EU travel 🤣1 -
In your opinion. In mine there are too many people living in the south east. If there wasn't there would be no need to do this as everyone would filter through nicely. And its getting worse on a daily basis,ME14addick said:
Operation Brock which has cost over £35million so far, has nothing to do with the number of people in the south east, it is to mitigate delays at Dover which have grown longer since we left the EU.Chippycafc said:
The main impact is due to the number of people who live in the South East. Take a lorry breaking down on the A2 or in the tunnel place grinds to a halt. That costs hundreds of thousands of pounds too.ME14addick said:
The impact of Operation Brock & the impact on Maidstone, Ashford, Dover and surrounding areas of Kent has been enormous and very expensive for the tax payer.Huskaris said:I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
Ask the long suffering people of Dover if the impact on their lives has been miniscule and you will get a very strong reply.
Perhaps if we stopped flooding those areas with people that might help.0 -
I take your point, but as others have said, there were, and still are, many lies being told on the consequences of that vote.se9addick said:
How did the long suffering people of Dover vote in the referendum?ME14addick said:
The impact of Operation Brock & the impact on Maidstone, Ashford, Dover and surrounding areas of Kent has been enormous and very expensive for the tax payer.Huskaris said:I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
Ask the long suffering people of Dover if the impact on their lives has been miniscule and you will get a very strong reply.1 -
It's not an opinion, it is fact. I have a stack of correspondence on Operation Brock, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the number of people living in the south east. It is a traffic management scheme to store HGVs in anticipation of delays at Dover port.Chippycafc said:
In your opinion. In mine there are too many people living in the south east. If there wasn't there would be no need to do this as everyone would filter through nicely.ME14addick said:
Operation Brock which has cost over £35million so far, has nothing to do with the number of people in the south east, it is to mitigate delays at Dover which have grown longer since we left the EU.Chippycafc said:
The main impact is due to the number of people who live in the South East. Take a lorry breaking down on the A2 or in the tunnel place grinds to a halt. That costs hundreds of thousands of pounds too.ME14addick said:
The impact of Operation Brock & the impact on Maidstone, Ashford, Dover and surrounding areas of Kent has been enormous and very expensive for the tax payer.Huskaris said:I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
Ask the long suffering people of Dover if the impact on their lives has been miniscule and you will get a very strong reply.
Perhaps if we stopped flooding those areas with people that might help.2 -
Anyway, to get it off the "B" word for 5 minutes.
Earlier this year when we travelled from Heathrow to Delhi all us Britishers had to have our fingerprints taken on arrival in India. It took a while to process the capacity of a Boeing 777 minus the Indian nationals. People like me with King Charles size hands and fingers had problems with the machines not reading the prints correctly. The height and angle you had to place your digits was a bit awkward. I had about a dozen goes on each had before I got it right. I have feeling this method will become the norm throughout the world, although with the latest passports having biometric data including facial recognition I would have thought that would be enough. Obviously not.
We all also had our passports stamped arriving and leaving which I think is for the benefit for those who either can't remember where they have been or like to show off their book of collectable stamps.
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Sorry mate, those are not great analogies. Here we are discussing a *change* to something that worked better before (although never as well as it should have done). Since the State has initiated the change it is in all our interests to understand why it has happened.stonemuse said:
This was the question. Nothing else. SHG wanted clarification on the process not the history!ShootersHillGuru said:Anyone got an inside track on this. I remember when you just got waved through. 🤦🏻♂️From the EU website :When filling out the application, you will be asked to provide the following information:
- Personal information including your name(s), surname, date and place of birth, nationality, home address, parents’ first names, email address and phone number;
- Travel document details;
- Details about your level of education and current occupation;
- Details about your intended travel and stay in any of the countries requiring ETIAS;
- Details about any criminal convictions, any past travels to war or conflict zones, and whether you have recently been subject of a decision requiring you to leave the territory of any country.
You will need to declare that the data you submit and the statements you make are correct. You will also need to confirm that you understand the entry conditions to the territories of the European countries requiring ETIAS and that you may be requested to provide the relevant supporting documents each time you cross the external border.
https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/what-you-need-apply_en
https://www.abta.com/tips-and-advice/planning-and-booking-a-holiday/upcoming-changes-travel-europe
But some just cannot resist.I can buy a ticket to a Charlton game or to the theatre without having to know the history of the Valley or the theatre company.I can pay for a visa to Indonesia without having to know why it is required.But apparently that changes with EU travel 🤣A better CL analogy would be the issue of our squad and its apparent failures. Should we just shout and scream about the players we dont like, and the owners who “don’t put their hands in their pockets”? We are better than that, are we not, because we try to tackle the underlying issues and find out how our playing budget stacks up, how much our owners have put in, how we recruit, and who takes the decisions.2 -
ME14addick said:
I take your point, but as others have said, there were, and still are, many lies being told on the consequences of that vote.se9addick said:
How did the long suffering people of Dover vote in the referendum?ME14addick said:
The impact of Operation Brock & the impact on Maidstone, Ashford, Dover and surrounding areas of Kent has been enormous and very expensive for the tax payer.Huskaris said:I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
Ask the long suffering people of Dover if the impact on their lives has been miniscule and you will get a very strong reply.It didn't need lies for anyone who voted Leave not to anticipate that border control would be tougher as a result of leaving the EU, and that it would impact ports and airports.Did you not consider that when you voted to leave?Not sure it's worth getting too worked up about having to fill out a form and pay a few bob for the process. If only that was the worse thing about leaving the EU.1 -
Perhaps it is accumulative?Huskaris said:I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
We were told things would be better after Brexit. At least some people have stopped pretending things have not got worse.
Sorry - my last word on the subject - it is best left alone, but your comment deserved a response.1 -
In my view it is...ME14addick said:
It's not an opinion, it is fact. I have a stack of correspondence on Operation Brock, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the number of people living in the south east. It is a traffic management scheme to store HGVs in anticipation of delays at Dover port.Chippycafc said:
In your opinion. In mine there are too many people living in the south east. If there wasn't there would be no need to do this as everyone would filter through nicely.ME14addick said:
Operation Brock which has cost over £35million so far, has nothing to do with the number of people in the south east, it is to mitigate delays at Dover which have grown longer since we left the EU.Chippycafc said:
The main impact is due to the number of people who live in the South East. Take a lorry breaking down on the A2 or in the tunnel place grinds to a halt. That costs hundreds of thousands of pounds too.ME14addick said:
The impact of Operation Brock & the impact on Maidstone, Ashford, Dover and surrounding areas of Kent has been enormous and very expensive for the tax payer.Huskaris said:I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
Ask the long suffering people of Dover if the impact on their lives has been miniscule and you will get a very strong reply.
Perhaps if we stopped flooding those areas with people that might help.2 -
A vote I bitterly regret as you well know, at least I am prepared to admit when I am wrong.bobmunro said:ME14addick said:
I take your point, but as others have said, there were, and still are, many lies being told on the consequences of that vote.se9addick said:
How did the long suffering people of Dover vote in the referendum?ME14addick said:
The impact of Operation Brock & the impact on Maidstone, Ashford, Dover and surrounding areas of Kent has been enormous and very expensive for the tax payer.Huskaris said:I love how excited people get about their lives becoming worse in the most miniscule of ways, just so they can say "I told you so"
Grown people, pathetic
Ask the long suffering people of Dover if the impact on their lives has been miniscule and you will get a very strong reply.It didn't need lies for anyone who voted Leave not to anticipate that border control would be tougher as a result of leaving the EU, and that it would impact ports and airports.Did you not consider that when you voted to leave?Not sure it's worth getting too worked up about having to fill out a form and pay a few bob for the process. If only that was the worse thing about leaving the EU.
It isn't just a form filling exercise, the implications for Kent and for people travelling through Dover are far greater than that.1
