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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
Comments
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Yes but what we would give now for a GallagherShootersHillGuru said:
Addressing our lack of creativity in January is going to be extremely difficult. Even if there is money to spend I doubt we could attract a Championship player who fits the bill and any league one club is unlikely to want to sell or lose a player that presumably is of good quality. We’re pretty much restricted to the loan market and I’m guessing that’s likely to be a couple of PL kids. Things might be different in the summer but the fact we’re in this predicament is lays very much at the door of Nathan Jones. Clearly what we’re experiencing now in terms of performances won’t be good enough next season. Despite what some posters are saying, this season is over. The summer is yet again of paramount importance.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
This is a pretty damning post. I'm currently in the 'give him more time, he's only had 1 transfer window' camp but when i went through those and answered yes for every single one then it's hard to see things improving if he stays.bobmunro said:Knee jerk sacking managers when the team are on a poor run seldom results in a positive change. But ... we need to consider these questions:- is the team under performing based on money spent?- has the team been under performing for a sustained period of time?- were the new players in the team selected by the manager?- are we playing the style of football that is unlikely to keep the fans on board?- could there be a problem with the players not 'getting' the manager?- does the manager appear to not be handling the pressure very well?- has the manager failed to accept there is a systemic problem?If some of those questions result in a 'yes' then there is a potential problem. If ALL of the questions can be answered with a 'yes' then there is almost certainly an insurmountable problem.
I'd still say we give him the January window but if he doesn't address our lack of creativity by then he might as well go because if he can't see the problem then we're going nowhere.
or a Rak Saki, or some of our other better loans in the past 5 years.3 -
Parachute payments will still be a big plus even if they do get relegated.Callumcafc said:
And where did that get them? Back to the position they were in when Nathan Jones was manager!IR94 said:
Southampton got promoted last season, winning the play-offsCallumcafc said:Neither Stoke or Southampton have gone on to have any kind of success after he left them. Stoke are still a middling Championship club that occasionally flirt with relegation and Southampton are still a poor Premier League team destined for relegation.
This is the first time Jones had faced a period of adversity lower than the second tier of English football.
Surely we can’t simultaneously be saying the only reason his ex players joined is for a big paycheck while also not having enough money to convince a Des Buckingham to join us.We have a decent but not outrageous budget for the level - managers see our club as having to a do a job with one hand tied behind their back and ultimately a risk to their long term prospects in management. That’s why you end up with blokes in last chance saloon like Appleton, or absolute nutcases like Jones.
The only young coach that will take the role right now is someone with an irrational affinity to the club or someone who’s completely unqualified. I’m not even convinced Jacko would come back at this moment in time.
4 points from 12 games… nailed on for relegation already… NJ would’ve been sacked by now…1 -
Don’t disagree with this at all. But what are is your actual message or point here Callum? Are you defending the board? Do you think we should stick with Jones because it’s impossible we can do better? (And by the way do you still think we will make the play offs?)Callumcafc said:
It’s not like they grow on trees. Looking at the track record of our current decision makers, they’d pick the young coach who fails dismally and actually takes us down to League 2.paulsturgess said:
I haven’t missed the point. To answer his question, I’m expecting we get a carefully selected high quality young coach with potential to grow along the lines of McKenna or Buckingham. Instead we have gone for successive incredibly lazy appointments.fenaddick said:
Think you've missed the point of Callum's post. We DID do that and we got rejected by at least three names (including Ferguson who really knows how to get out of this league) and ended up with Jones because he was the best option left. What has changed to make that any different now?paulsturgess said:
This question is exactly the sort of incredibly lazy and inept coach-selection that is why we are where we are!! Honestly mate I do not know what planet you are on.Callumcafc said:Before we got Appleton in, weren’t we rejected by Des Buckingham and Dave Challinor?
Who do people think will take this job on that’s any more likely to be successful than a bloke who already took a team from bottom half of League 2 to top six of the Championship?
"this guy got somebody promoted from this division once, let's get him"
How about you expect the board of a football club to do some slightly more involved selection process, considering, for example:
- somebody's overall career achievements (i.e. 1 successful job, 2 catastrophic failures);
- their personality;
- their coaching and playing style;
- their man management ability;
- their press / fan engagement ability;
- many other nuanced details that wouldn't be evident to us as fans.
And then make a selection. How do you think Ipswich chose Kieran Mckenna? It wasn't because he had previously got somebody promoted from this division.Callum seems to be defending Jones and/or the board because we have him (and had Appleton) after “trying” to get Buckingham and Challinor. Buckingham went to Oxford ?! That is not an acceptable excuse to then appoint Appleton, or Jones (who by the way, I imagine cost a fair bit more than Buckingham did).
I agree they don’t grow on trees of course, but they are out there. I think even rarer is managers who are working their way round the merry go round managerial circuit who actually end up being any good anywhere. Certainly we have EXCLUSIVELY in my almost 40 year lifetime had any vague semblance of success with young new managers (Lawrence, curbs, Powell, bowyer (Jacko I would argue)).Riga is the only other manager who has touched it in that period with even a tentative claim of a meaningful positive impact and that is very tentative IMO.Most of the managers who are moving about tend to be doing so cos they keep not doing very well… the exceptions are rarer than successful new coaches, and often tend to be warnock/ allardyce fire fighter sorts.You need a young hungry manager with a brain and real desire to succeed, and a personality match.0 -
His "front footed", "high press", "outwork the opposition", strategy, has clearly failed using the players that he chose himself, to implement it.
So the question becomes, what now?
Keep persevering in the hope that something magically clicks, or abandon the idea and play in a completely different way.
But what other way, when we don't have wingers and we don't have a playmaker in midfield ?
He is clearly floundering as reflected in his post match interviews, where his latest nonsensical uttering is "in terms of stuff".
The guy is obviously very passionate and hard working, and clearly cares, so I'd love to see him dig himself out of this whole.
But he needs to hold his hands up and acknowledge our deficiencies, rather than the BS about us dominating, when we clearly were not, and apparently being perfectly happy with the drab anti football that we are being subjected to.
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If we stumbled on a superb new manager, I'm sure his priority would be to get rid of deadwood, namely:-
Ahadme
Docherty
Berry
Campbell A
Potts
Hylton
Gillesphie
That doesn't include iffy players like Edun, Watson, REG and the like. Six of those seven, signed by NJ, none have played a decent game to date. (I know Berry is our 2nd top scorer, but we cant afford luxury players strolling around when not on the ball)0 -
12 points off the automatics.
7 points off the play offs.What are the boards / owners intentions this season? If the promotion shake down is a must this season, I expect tomorrow has a lot riding on it.7 points can be closed by a new manager bounce alone. 12 isn’t too far away with 93 still to play for.5 -
I'm afraid I can't listen to Nathan Jones anymore. I've had enough of his bullshit, prattling on about injuries when were only missing three starters and parroting his beloved mantras of "being aggressive and front footed". His excuses and attempts to justify consistently poor performances are an insult to our intelligence.
Successful teams at any level pass the ball to each other in order to work the ball up the pitch, rather than mindlessly hoofing it forward. We need to try playing a bit of football and also, once in a while, attacking down the flanks.
The 'style' (if I can term it that) which Jones has inculcated and instructed the team to play is going to further damage our reputation in football circles. That will, in turn, make it harder to attract decent players and loanees should we decide to cast our net wider than Luton cast-offs. We have, beyond question, been one of the biggest under-performers in the EFL in recent years and, to compound matters, we must now be playing some of the most unattractive football. It is not a winning combination and be in no doubt that people will start voting with their feet.
The position of Scott also needs to be addressed given his lamentable record, together with that of Rodwell. Why do we need the latter when Methven (as a minority owner) is chief executive ? Despite talk of the board members "challenging each other", we are certainly not seeing the results of that in terms of successful leadership and outcomes. Nor is it clear what contribution Paul Elliot brings to the table, other than his diversity work.
A comprehensive review from the owners - to include the Senior Management Team and the operation of the board - would most certainly not go amiss.
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You still haven’t addressed Leeches everywhere in the club. I’m guessing you’re alluding to Methven and Scott but don’t have to bottle to say it.Braziliance said:
Well, a leech by definition is 'a person who takes advantage of others for their own benefit, often without giving anything in return'.ShootersHillGuru said:
So incompetent and poor performers but no leeches.Braziliance said:
Well that's one of the problems, where do you start when there's so much to be accounted for over the years.ShootersHillGuru said:
To be honest I think “leeches everywhere in the club” is actually totally wrong. Please can you tell me who or at least where these parasitic worms are sucking the blood out of the club.Braziliance said:
Nothing, we are s**t and have leeches everywhere in the club.fenaddick said:
But that's my point, what's changed? What manager would come in now to what appears to be a poisoned chalice?Braziliance said:
To be fair, why would any of those leave their clubs at the time?fenaddick said:
Think you've missed the point of Callum's post. We DID do that and we got rejected by at least three names (including Ferguson who really knows how to get out of this league) and ended up with Jones because he was the best option left. What has changed to make that any different now?paulsturgess said:
This question is exactly the sort of incredibly lazy and inept coach-selection that is why we are where we are!! Honestly mate I do not know what planet you are on.Callumcafc said:Before we got Appleton in, weren’t we rejected by Des Buckingham and Dave Challinor?
Who do people think will take this job on that’s any more likely to be successful than a bloke who already took a team from bottom half of League 2 to top six of the Championship?
"this guy got somebody promoted from this division once, let's get him"
How about you expect the board of a football club to do some slightly more involved selection process, considering, for example:
- somebody's overall career achievements (i.e. 1 successful job, 2 catastrophic failures);
- their personality;
- their coaching and playing style;
- their man management ability;
- their press / fan engagement ability;
- many other nuanced details that wouldn't be evident to us as fans.
And then make a selection. How do you think Ipswich chose Kieran Mckenna? It wasn't because he had previously got somebody promoted from this division.
Peterborough are a much better ran club and been better than us at football in the last decade for around 8 of those years. He also probably has a good relationship with the owner, despite the dismissals.
Stockport are on the up, Challinor probably didn't want to leave a club where he's really built something, especially to a bang average team like us.
And Buckingham probably knew that if he was patient, a better run club who are better at football would come along and swoop him up.
Peterborough, Oxford and Stockport, all better run clubs than us, all far better at football. It is what it is.
I don't believe there's a single person left who has faith in Nathan Jones based on the football we are seeing, it's solely because of his Luton times.
I was mainly saying there's no harm in getting rejected by those managers, as they had better hands on them at the time.
Based on what I've seen so far, I refuse to believe that out of two hundred thousand qualified football coaches, that not one of them could serve up better football. It's lazy by the owners and people making the big decisions to think otherwise.
Same as the players, signing absolute horses**t season after season. Where are the people in house with football knowledge. It's a joke.
Whoever thought it was a good idea to appoint Appleton, whoever sanctions the woeful signings we make for starters. Some of these players are leeches, but that's nothing new we have had that issue for going on 15 years.
Whoever gave the go ahead for bloody half and half Wrexham scarves.
To answer your question with another question, could you honestly state a bunch of positives around the club right now? Like who are the positive figures who can make a genuine impact for this club in the mid-term future.
Of course there will be good people in the club, but as far as the people in the positions who can actually have an influence on the direction of this club, where are the positives? Who do you think is a valuable asset to us?
I'd say if you're telling fans that we have a top budget, are wanting promotion and fans can expect to see a team to be proud of, while being paid to do so, as we sit 14th being a pile of s**t, it's fair enough to call those people making these statements leeches.
You can be pedantic, but that's what they are to me until I see our club look like one to be proud of again.1 -
9 wins in 35 I think they said on CharltonLive on Sunday. 12 wins over a 46 game season. He’ll have his excuses about poor squad last year and injuries this year but that is not good enough as we all know.
I get the can’t keep sacking managers thing but only if we see some positives and foundations for us to grow on, can’t see this under Jones.
The Charlton connection gives him longer but that added time seems to be running out too doesn’t it2 -
Thought for the day.Normally to make play offs you need an average 75points.
if Charlton were to get a point from every away match and a win from every home match from today , we would have 79 points come end of season.
As we all know that’s not going to happen, question surely is can Nathan Jones survive till end of year?Don’t believe our owners can afford to pay him off ,so please Nathan do us all a favor and just walk away.Yes I know that won’t happen also.Season written off in November.1 - Sponsored links:
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All good points but I still don’t trust Methven and Scott with appointing a replacement. I believe they are part of the problem. What manager in their right mind will want to risk their future with a Technical Director like Scott having some responsibility on recruitment. I don’t believe every player recruited over the summer was solely scouted by Jones. Scott must be involved and Jones has hinted at some friction between the two on some decisions. I think the Americans are supporting us financially, especially if some of the salaries of the new recruits mentioned are true, but their money will be wasted while Scott and Methven are still here. We need to be vocal about what a bad job the top management are doing, otherwise it will be another Appleton style appointment. The fans need to let the owners know the senior management are incompetent.AFKABartram said:Not read a single post I align with suggesting Jones job shouldn’t be jeopardy, The only reason I see given is down to ‘we can’t keep changing managers’.Talk of needing 3 transfer windows etc is just not modern day lower league football, where large turnovers are the norm.Jones simply doesn’t deserve that time. He arrived in Feb having been actively looking for Champ / L1 work for a few months. So he’s not come in cold from overseas. had a long run of monitoring these levels.Going into the summer he had months to assess the capabilities, strengths and weaknesses of all individuals in our squad, and a first hand working knowledge of L1 and what is required to be successful. He was given a budget better than most. I was convinced we were going to have a successful season as I thought we were months ahead of the curve with our planning and resources.What’s been compiled has been a disaster.There’s clear squad balance things that need to be readdressed in January. Would you trust Jones further to bring in more of ‘his’ players?I wouldn’t on what I’ve seen. He needs results desperately over the next few weeks otherwise I think an early decision needs to be made before the Jan window.We all wanted him to succeed and I suspect we all still do. But there needs to be some big improvement soon otherwise we are in for another damaging 2nd half of season nothingness and even further away from making NEXT season successful.2 -
I'm surprised people are acting like getting NJ in the first place was a stupid decision. At the time, everyone thought it was a massive coup for the club. When we were first linked I thought there was no way he'd drop down to League One given a Premier League club took a punt on him by taking him from a side in the Championship playoffs.
It's easy in hindsight to say it was a disastrous appointment. I don't see Jones turning it around and it's been dire but I imagine the compensation will be huge so wouldn't expect any hasty decisions.
I'm just not sure where we go from here. We've tried everything. I don't think it helps we have switched between extreme styles and recruited for those, eg Garner tiki taka vs NJ hoof ball but the club just seems destined to underperform no matter who is managing the team. I think half the issue is fans expect playoffs minimum every season but we are such an average side and when that aim isn't achieved it can turn a bit sour. There's proof that a good manager can get you out this league without needing loads of money (see Bloomfied this season and Buckingham last) but if they were at Charlton, no doubt we'd still be in the same position.7 -
I’m certainly not an apologist for Methven and Scott but the situation we find ourselves in on the pitch is firmly layed at the door of the team manager. He without doubt shaped the vast bulk of the summer recruitment and is solely responsible for our style of play. Both have been shown to be woeful. I don’t think he’ll be given money in January and I’m firmly in the camp that he needs to at the very least start next season as manager. On the other hand I’m not at all confident he’s got what it takes to turn this all around. Nothing points towards him doing that. For all our sakes I hope I’m wrong.SouthLincsAddick said:
All good points but I still don’t trust Methven and Scott with appointing a replacement. I believe they are part of the problem. What manager in their right mind will want to risk their future with a Technical Director like Scott having some responsibility on recruitment. I don’t believe every player recruited over the summer was solely scouted by Jones. Scott must be involved and Jones has hinted at some friction between the two on some decisions. I think the Americans are supporting us financially, especially if some of the salaries of the new recruits mentioned are true, but their money will be wasted while Scott and Methven are still here. We need to be vocal about what a bad job the top management are doing, otherwise it will be another Appleton style appointment. The fans need to let the owners know the senior management are incompetent.AFKABartram said:Not read a single post I align with suggesting Jones job shouldn’t be jeopardy, The only reason I see given is down to ‘we can’t keep changing managers’.Talk of needing 3 transfer windows etc is just not modern day lower league football, where large turnovers are the norm.Jones simply doesn’t deserve that time. He arrived in Feb having been actively looking for Champ / L1 work for a few months. So he’s not come in cold from overseas. had a long run of monitoring these levels.Going into the summer he had months to assess the capabilities, strengths and weaknesses of all individuals in our squad, and a first hand working knowledge of L1 and what is required to be successful. He was given a budget better than most. I was convinced we were going to have a successful season as I thought we were months ahead of the curve with our planning and resources.What’s been compiled has been a disaster.There’s clear squad balance things that need to be readdressed in January. Would you trust Jones further to bring in more of ‘his’ players?I wouldn’t on what I’ve seen. He needs results desperately over the next few weeks otherwise I think an early decision needs to be made before the Jan window.We all wanted him to succeed and I suspect we all still do. But there needs to be some big improvement soon otherwise we are in for another damaging 2nd half of season nothingness and even further away from making NEXT season successful.2 -
What I'd like to see is him put his hands up come jan and admit he got it wrong, get rid of the shit we are carrying into games that are quite evidently costing us points and reassemble some hungry players.4
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Problem with that is, if you can't shift the duds off the book they're pissed off you criticised them publicly and everything goes even more pear shapedCAFCDAZ said:What I'd like to see is him put his hands up come jan and admit he got it wrong, get rid of the shit we are carrying into games that are quite evidently costing us points and reassemble some hungry players.0 -
This is the only reason why i think they won't get rid yet. Isn't he contracted until 2028?follett said:I'm surprised people are acting like getting NJ in the first place was a stupid decision. At the time, everyone thought it was a massive coup for the club. When we were first linked I thought there was no way he'd drop down to League One given a Premier League club took a punt on him by taking him from a side in the Championship playoffs.
It's easy in hindsight to say it was a disastrous appointment. I don't see Jones turning it around and it's been dire but I imagine the compensation will be huge so wouldn't expect any hasty decisions.
I'm just not sure where we go from here. We've tried everything. I don't think it helps we have switched between extreme styles and recruited for those, eg Garner tiki taka vs NJ hoof ball but the club just seems destined to underperform no matter who is managing the team. I think half the issue is fans expect playoffs minimum every season but we are such an average side and when that aim isn't achieved it can turn a bit sour. There's proof that a good manager can get you out this league without needing loads of money (see Bloomfied this season and Buckingham last) but if they were at Charlton, no doubt we'd still be in the same position.
I think they have to address the squad issues in January and then see how we go between now and May. As let's face it even if they give him a huge pay off to go, they're still going to need to give a new manager some new signings anyway because the squad is imbalanced and not good enough in certain areas.2 -
No way compensation is until 2028, there will be a clause saying it's until the end of the season/12 months/end of the calendar year/he gets his next jobChris_from_Sidcup said:
This is the only reason why i think they won't get rid yet. Isn't he contracted until 2028?follett said:I'm surprised people are acting like getting NJ in the first place was a stupid decision. At the time, everyone thought it was a massive coup for the club. When we were first linked I thought there was no way he'd drop down to League One given a Premier League club took a punt on him by taking him from a side in the Championship playoffs.
It's easy in hindsight to say it was a disastrous appointment. I don't see Jones turning it around and it's been dire but I imagine the compensation will be huge so wouldn't expect any hasty decisions.
I'm just not sure where we go from here. We've tried everything. I don't think it helps we have switched between extreme styles and recruited for those, eg Garner tiki taka vs NJ hoof ball but the club just seems destined to underperform no matter who is managing the team. I think half the issue is fans expect playoffs minimum every season but we are such an average side and when that aim isn't achieved it can turn a bit sour. There's proof that a good manager can get you out this league without needing loads of money (see Bloomfied this season and Buckingham last) but if they were at Charlton, no doubt we'd still be in the same position.
I think they have to address the squad issues in January and then see how we go between now and May. As let's face it even if they give him a huge pay off to go, they're still going to need to give a new manager some new signings anyway because the squad is imbalanced and not good enough in certain areas.1 -
My point is he won't be cheap to get rid of. There's no way we could fire him in December and his pay out will only be to the end of the year.fenaddick said:
No way compensation is until 2028, there will be a clause saying it's until the end of the season/12 months/end of the calendar year/he gets his next jobChris_from_Sidcup said:
This is the only reason why i think they won't get rid yet. Isn't he contracted until 2028?follett said:I'm surprised people are acting like getting NJ in the first place was a stupid decision. At the time, everyone thought it was a massive coup for the club. When we were first linked I thought there was no way he'd drop down to League One given a Premier League club took a punt on him by taking him from a side in the Championship playoffs.
It's easy in hindsight to say it was a disastrous appointment. I don't see Jones turning it around and it's been dire but I imagine the compensation will be huge so wouldn't expect any hasty decisions.
I'm just not sure where we go from here. We've tried everything. I don't think it helps we have switched between extreme styles and recruited for those, eg Garner tiki taka vs NJ hoof ball but the club just seems destined to underperform no matter who is managing the team. I think half the issue is fans expect playoffs minimum every season but we are such an average side and when that aim isn't achieved it can turn a bit sour. There's proof that a good manager can get you out this league without needing loads of money (see Bloomfied this season and Buckingham last) but if they were at Charlton, no doubt we'd still be in the same position.
I think they have to address the squad issues in January and then see how we go between now and May. As let's face it even if they give him a huge pay off to go, they're still going to need to give a new manager some new signings anyway because the squad is imbalanced and not good enough in certain areas.
And if it was until he gets his next job we could be paying him for ages as there might not be a queue of clubs lining up for him after 3 failures in 3 divisions.0 -
Of course it won't be cheap but it's disingenuous to say we'll be paying until 2028. It will be one of those options depending on time or until he gets a job, whichever is soonestChris_from_Sidcup said:
My point is he won't be cheap to get rid of. There's no way we could fire him in December and his pay out will only be to the end of the year.fenaddick said:
No way compensation is until 2028, there will be a clause saying it's until the end of the season/12 months/end of the calendar year/he gets his next jobChris_from_Sidcup said:
This is the only reason why i think they won't get rid yet. Isn't he contracted until 2028?follett said:I'm surprised people are acting like getting NJ in the first place was a stupid decision. At the time, everyone thought it was a massive coup for the club. When we were first linked I thought there was no way he'd drop down to League One given a Premier League club took a punt on him by taking him from a side in the Championship playoffs.
It's easy in hindsight to say it was a disastrous appointment. I don't see Jones turning it around and it's been dire but I imagine the compensation will be huge so wouldn't expect any hasty decisions.
I'm just not sure where we go from here. We've tried everything. I don't think it helps we have switched between extreme styles and recruited for those, eg Garner tiki taka vs NJ hoof ball but the club just seems destined to underperform no matter who is managing the team. I think half the issue is fans expect playoffs minimum every season but we are such an average side and when that aim isn't achieved it can turn a bit sour. There's proof that a good manager can get you out this league without needing loads of money (see Bloomfied this season and Buckingham last) but if they were at Charlton, no doubt we'd still be in the same position.
I think they have to address the squad issues in January and then see how we go between now and May. As let's face it even if they give him a huge pay off to go, they're still going to need to give a new manager some new signings anyway because the squad is imbalanced and not good enough in certain areas.
And if it was until he gets his next job we could be paying him for ages as there might not be a queue of clubs lining up for him after 3 failures in 3 divisions.0 -
So you’re fully confident in Scott and Methven’s pick of next manager? The people that appointed Appleton and led the team to its worst finish in 90 odd years. We all thought Jones could bring success by bypassing the senior management incompetence but all we have seen is a madman make mad decisions. If Jones does go we’re still left with those two at the helm, still making poor decisions and deterring any decent manager from joining us. Look beyond the next sacking, they are the problem.ShootersHillGuru said:
I’m certainly not an apologist for Methven and Scott but the situation we find ourselves in on the pitch is firmly layed at the door of the team manager. He without doubt shaped the vast bulk of the summer recruitment and is solely responsible for our style of play. Both have been shown to be woeful. I don’t think he’ll be given money in January and I’m firmly in the camp that he needs to at the very least start next season as manager. On the other hand I’m not at all confident he’s got what it takes to turn this all around. Nothing points towards him doing that. For all our sakes I hope I’m wrong.SouthLincsAddick said:
All good points but I still don’t trust Methven and Scott with appointing a replacement. I believe they are part of the problem. What manager in their right mind will want to risk their future with a Technical Director like Scott having some responsibility on recruitment. I don’t believe every player recruited over the summer was solely scouted by Jones. Scott must be involved and Jones has hinted at some friction between the two on some decisions. I think the Americans are supporting us financially, especially if some of the salaries of the new recruits mentioned are true, but their money will be wasted while Scott and Methven are still here. We need to be vocal about what a bad job the top management are doing, otherwise it will be another Appleton style appointment. The fans need to let the owners know the senior management are incompetent.AFKABartram said:Not read a single post I align with suggesting Jones job shouldn’t be jeopardy, The only reason I see given is down to ‘we can’t keep changing managers’.Talk of needing 3 transfer windows etc is just not modern day lower league football, where large turnovers are the norm.Jones simply doesn’t deserve that time. He arrived in Feb having been actively looking for Champ / L1 work for a few months. So he’s not come in cold from overseas. had a long run of monitoring these levels.Going into the summer he had months to assess the capabilities, strengths and weaknesses of all individuals in our squad, and a first hand working knowledge of L1 and what is required to be successful. He was given a budget better than most. I was convinced we were going to have a successful season as I thought we were months ahead of the curve with our planning and resources.What’s been compiled has been a disaster.There’s clear squad balance things that need to be readdressed in January. Would you trust Jones further to bring in more of ‘his’ players?I wouldn’t on what I’ve seen. He needs results desperately over the next few weeks otherwise I think an early decision needs to be made before the Jan window.We all wanted him to succeed and I suspect we all still do. But there needs to be some big improvement soon otherwise we are in for another damaging 2nd half of season nothingness and even further away from making NEXT season successful.4 - Sponsored links:
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It’s a really sad state of affairs we find ourselves in again.
We either stick and watch some of the most one dimensional boring football I’ve ever seen at the Valley
or
Twist and start all over again with someone else who might not be any better.
I’m normally in the camp of giving a manager time, but and this is the really sad part, I’m so fed up with it all that I couldn’t careless either way.4 -
Given our consortium’s lack of funding I simply cannot see much change moving forward.
Jones will need to be compensated if they sack him plus the SMT will look stupid and Players recently signed will have plenty of years left on their contracts so not easy to get rid of
This is a mess
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Not sure everyone thought this was a massive coupfollett said:I'm surprised people are acting like getting NJ in the first place was a stupid decision. At the time, everyone thought it was a massive coup for the club. When we were first linked I thought there was no way he'd drop down to League One given a Premier League club took a punt on him by taking him from a side in the Championship playoffs.
It's easy in hindsight to say it was a disastrous appointment. I don't see Jones turning it around and it's been dire but I imagine the compensation will be huge so wouldn't expect any hasty decisions.
I'm just not sure where we go from here. We've tried everything. I don't think it helps we have switched between extreme styles and recruited for those, eg Garner tiki taka vs NJ hoof ball but the club just seems destined to underperform no matter who is managing the team. I think half the issue is fans expect playoffs minimum every season but we are such an average side and when that aim isn't achieved it can turn a bit sour. There's proof that a good manager can get you out this league without needing loads of money (see Bloomfied this season and Buckingham last) but if they were at Charlton, no doubt we'd still be in the same position.2 -
Recruitment has been a disaster for years. We would have been better served by appointing Curbs as head of recruitment.
He had a very simple formula, buy good players, who had a good attitude and also had something to prove ie: they had fallen out of favour at their current club.
Those players were then played (for the most part) in their favoured specialist positions.
That formula would be just as successful today as it was back then, but we have deviated so far away from it.
Only Mitchell and perhaps Godden meet the Curbs criteria, and it's no suprise that they have been two of the only successes.
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I gave up listening to him in September, he talks utter bollocksBlucher said:I'm afraid I can't listen to Nathan Jones anymore. I've had enough of his bullshit, prattling on about injuries when were only missing three starters and parroting his beloved mantras of "being aggressive and front footed". His excuses and attempts to justify consistently poor performances are an insult to our intelligence.
Successful teams at any level pass the ball to each other in order to work the ball up the pitch, rather than mindlessly hoofing it forward. We need to try playing a bit of football and also, once in a while, attacking down the flanks.
The 'style' (if I can term it that) which Jones has inculcated and instructed the team to play is going to further damage our reputation in football circles. That will, in turn, make it harder to attract decent players and loanees should we decide to cast our net wider than Luton cast-offs. We have, beyond question, been one of the biggest under-performers in the EFL in recent years and, to compound matters, we must now be playing some of the most unattractive football. It is not a winning combination and be in no doubt that people will start voting with their feet.
The position of Scott also needs to be addressed given his lamentable record, together with that of Rodwell. Why do we need the latter when Methven (as a minority owner) is chief executive ? Despite talk of the board members "challenging each other", we are certainly not seeing the results of that in terms of successful leadership and outcomes. Nor is it clear what contribution Paul Elliot brings to the table, other than his diversity work.
A comprehensive review from the owners - to include the Senior Management Team and the operation of the board - would most certainly not go amiss.5 -
I’m not confident at all in Methven or Scott. All I’m saying is that the first team squad and shit football is down to Jones. Now it might well be the case that Methven and Scott are a problem in recruiting our next manager should the need arise but it’s more likely that Charltons reputation within football as a basket case club and manager’s graveyard will deter at least as much, if not more. I want Jones given time but if we’re still having this conversation at the end of November 2025 then god only knows what the future holds. Jones has been given more autonomy than probably any Charlton manager for the last 10 years and he’s fucked it up good and proper.SouthLincsAddick said:
So you’re fully confident in Scott and Methven’s pick of next manager? The people that appointed Appleton and led the team to its worst finish in 90 odd years. We all thought Jones could bring success by bypassing the senior management incompetence but all we have seen is a madman make mad decisions. If Jones does go we’re still left with those two at the helm, still making poor decisions and deterring any decent manager from joining us. Look beyond the next sacking, they are the problem.ShootersHillGuru said:
I’m certainly not an apologist for Methven and Scott but the situation we find ourselves in on the pitch is firmly layed at the door of the team manager. He without doubt shaped the vast bulk of the summer recruitment and is solely responsible for our style of play. Both have been shown to be woeful. I don’t think he’ll be given money in January and I’m firmly in the camp that he needs to at the very least start next season as manager. On the other hand I’m not at all confident he’s got what it takes to turn this all around. Nothing points towards him doing that. For all our sakes I hope I’m wrong.SouthLincsAddick said:
All good points but I still don’t trust Methven and Scott with appointing a replacement. I believe they are part of the problem. What manager in their right mind will want to risk their future with a Technical Director like Scott having some responsibility on recruitment. I don’t believe every player recruited over the summer was solely scouted by Jones. Scott must be involved and Jones has hinted at some friction between the two on some decisions. I think the Americans are supporting us financially, especially if some of the salaries of the new recruits mentioned are true, but their money will be wasted while Scott and Methven are still here. We need to be vocal about what a bad job the top management are doing, otherwise it will be another Appleton style appointment. The fans need to let the owners know the senior management are incompetent.AFKABartram said:Not read a single post I align with suggesting Jones job shouldn’t be jeopardy, The only reason I see given is down to ‘we can’t keep changing managers’.Talk of needing 3 transfer windows etc is just not modern day lower league football, where large turnovers are the norm.Jones simply doesn’t deserve that time. He arrived in Feb having been actively looking for Champ / L1 work for a few months. So he’s not come in cold from overseas. had a long run of monitoring these levels.Going into the summer he had months to assess the capabilities, strengths and weaknesses of all individuals in our squad, and a first hand working knowledge of L1 and what is required to be successful. He was given a budget better than most. I was convinced we were going to have a successful season as I thought we were months ahead of the curve with our planning and resources.What’s been compiled has been a disaster.There’s clear squad balance things that need to be readdressed in January. Would you trust Jones further to bring in more of ‘his’ players?I wouldn’t on what I’ve seen. He needs results desperately over the next few weeks otherwise I think an early decision needs to be made before the Jan window.We all wanted him to succeed and I suspect we all still do. But there needs to be some big improvement soon otherwise we are in for another damaging 2nd half of season nothingness and even further away from making NEXT season successful.3 -
Great post.Blucher said:I'm afraid I can't listen to Nathan Jones anymore. I've had enough of his bullshit, prattling on about injuries when were only missing three starters and parroting his beloved mantras of "being aggressive and front footed". His excuses and attempts to justify consistently poor performances are an insult to our intelligence.
Successful teams at any level pass the ball to each other in order to work the ball up the pitch, rather than mindlessly hoofing it forward. We need to try playing a bit of football and also, once in a while, attacking down the flanks.
The 'style' (if I can term it that) which Jones has inculcated and instructed the team to play is going to further damage our reputation in football circles. That will, in turn, make it harder to attract decent players and loanees should we decide to cast our net wider than Luton cast-offs. We have, beyond question, been one of the biggest under-performers in the EFL in recent years and, to compound matters, we must now be playing some of the most unattractive football. It is not a winning combination and be in no doubt that people will start voting with their feet.
The position of Scott also needs to be addressed given his lamentable record, together with that of Rodwell. Why do we need the latter when Methven (as a minority owner) is chief executive ? Despite talk of the board members "challenging each other", we are certainly not seeing the results of that in terms of successful leadership and outcomes. Nor is it clear what contribution Paul Elliot brings to the table, other than his diversity work.
A comprehensive review from the owners - to include the Senior Management Team and the operation of the board - would most certainly not go amiss.0 -
There are plenty of smart people in football with great reputations. Methven arrived with a poor reputation and what he’s achieved at Charlton so far hasn’t changed anything. I agree, Jones has got it wrong and is maybe yesterday’s man. He should probably go but I guarantee we will attract no one better. Methven and Scott are preventing that from happening, simply by still being at the club.ShootersHillGuru said:
I’m not confident at all in Methven or Scott. All I’m saying is that the first team squad and shit football is down to Jones. Now it might well be the case that Methven and Scott are a problem in recruiting our next manager should the need arise but it’s more likely that Charltons reputation within football as a basket case club and manager’s graveyard will deter at least as much, if not more. I want Jones given time but if we’re still having this conversation at the end of November 2025 then god only knows what the future holds. Jones has been given more autonomy than probably any Charlton manager for the last 10 years and he’s fucked it up good and proper.SouthLincsAddick said:
So you’re fully confident in Scott and Methven’s pick of next manager? The people that appointed Appleton and led the team to its worst finish in 90 odd years. We all thought Jones could bring success by bypassing the senior management incompetence but all we have seen is a madman make mad decisions. If Jones does go we’re still left with those two at the helm, still making poor decisions and deterring any decent manager from joining us. Look beyond the next sacking, they are the problem.ShootersHillGuru said:
I’m certainly not an apologist for Methven and Scott but the situation we find ourselves in on the pitch is firmly layed at the door of the team manager. He without doubt shaped the vast bulk of the summer recruitment and is solely responsible for our style of play. Both have been shown to be woeful. I don’t think he’ll be given money in January and I’m firmly in the camp that he needs to at the very least start next season as manager. On the other hand I’m not at all confident he’s got what it takes to turn this all around. Nothing points towards him doing that. For all our sakes I hope I’m wrong.SouthLincsAddick said:
All good points but I still don’t trust Methven and Scott with appointing a replacement. I believe they are part of the problem. What manager in their right mind will want to risk their future with a Technical Director like Scott having some responsibility on recruitment. I don’t believe every player recruited over the summer was solely scouted by Jones. Scott must be involved and Jones has hinted at some friction between the two on some decisions. I think the Americans are supporting us financially, especially if some of the salaries of the new recruits mentioned are true, but their money will be wasted while Scott and Methven are still here. We need to be vocal about what a bad job the top management are doing, otherwise it will be another Appleton style appointment. The fans need to let the owners know the senior management are incompetent.AFKABartram said:Not read a single post I align with suggesting Jones job shouldn’t be jeopardy, The only reason I see given is down to ‘we can’t keep changing managers’.Talk of needing 3 transfer windows etc is just not modern day lower league football, where large turnovers are the norm.Jones simply doesn’t deserve that time. He arrived in Feb having been actively looking for Champ / L1 work for a few months. So he’s not come in cold from overseas. had a long run of monitoring these levels.Going into the summer he had months to assess the capabilities, strengths and weaknesses of all individuals in our squad, and a first hand working knowledge of L1 and what is required to be successful. He was given a budget better than most. I was convinced we were going to have a successful season as I thought we were months ahead of the curve with our planning and resources.What’s been compiled has been a disaster.There’s clear squad balance things that need to be readdressed in January. Would you trust Jones further to bring in more of ‘his’ players?I wouldn’t on what I’ve seen. He needs results desperately over the next few weeks otherwise I think an early decision needs to be made before the Jan window.We all wanted him to succeed and I suspect we all still do. But there needs to be some big improvement soon otherwise we are in for another damaging 2nd half of season nothingness and even further away from making NEXT season successful.
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This is true but we were in the same boat with Duchatalet really and got lucky appointing a cheap young option in bowyer which worked , the only hope we have is something similar which will very likely be by chance rather than design given their appalling success rate of 3 disastrous appointments so farSouthLincsAddick said:
There are plenty of smart people in football with great reputations. Methven arrived with a poor reputation and what he’s achieved at Charlton so far hasn’t changed anything. I agree, Jones has got it wrong and is maybe yesterday’s man. He should probably go but I guarantee we will attract no one better. Methven and Scott are preventing that from happening, simply by still being at the club.ShootersHillGuru said:
I’m not confident at all in Methven or Scott. All I’m saying is that the first team squad and shit football is down to Jones. Now it might well be the case that Methven and Scott are a problem in recruiting our next manager should the need arise but it’s more likely that Charltons reputation within football as a basket case club and manager’s graveyard will deter at least as much, if not more. I want Jones given time but if we’re still having this conversation at the end of November 2025 then god only knows what the future holds. Jones has been given more autonomy than probably any Charlton manager for the last 10 years and he’s fucked it up good and proper.SouthLincsAddick said:
So you’re fully confident in Scott and Methven’s pick of next manager? The people that appointed Appleton and led the team to its worst finish in 90 odd years. We all thought Jones could bring success by bypassing the senior management incompetence but all we have seen is a madman make mad decisions. If Jones does go we’re still left with those two at the helm, still making poor decisions and deterring any decent manager from joining us. Look beyond the next sacking, they are the problem.ShootersHillGuru said:
I’m certainly not an apologist for Methven and Scott but the situation we find ourselves in on the pitch is firmly layed at the door of the team manager. He without doubt shaped the vast bulk of the summer recruitment and is solely responsible for our style of play. Both have been shown to be woeful. I don’t think he’ll be given money in January and I’m firmly in the camp that he needs to at the very least start next season as manager. On the other hand I’m not at all confident he’s got what it takes to turn this all around. Nothing points towards him doing that. For all our sakes I hope I’m wrong.SouthLincsAddick said:
All good points but I still don’t trust Methven and Scott with appointing a replacement. I believe they are part of the problem. What manager in their right mind will want to risk their future with a Technical Director like Scott having some responsibility on recruitment. I don’t believe every player recruited over the summer was solely scouted by Jones. Scott must be involved and Jones has hinted at some friction between the two on some decisions. I think the Americans are supporting us financially, especially if some of the salaries of the new recruits mentioned are true, but their money will be wasted while Scott and Methven are still here. We need to be vocal about what a bad job the top management are doing, otherwise it will be another Appleton style appointment. The fans need to let the owners know the senior management are incompetent.AFKABartram said:Not read a single post I align with suggesting Jones job shouldn’t be jeopardy, The only reason I see given is down to ‘we can’t keep changing managers’.Talk of needing 3 transfer windows etc is just not modern day lower league football, where large turnovers are the norm.Jones simply doesn’t deserve that time. He arrived in Feb having been actively looking for Champ / L1 work for a few months. So he’s not come in cold from overseas. had a long run of monitoring these levels.Going into the summer he had months to assess the capabilities, strengths and weaknesses of all individuals in our squad, and a first hand working knowledge of L1 and what is required to be successful. He was given a budget better than most. I was convinced we were going to have a successful season as I thought we were months ahead of the curve with our planning and resources.What’s been compiled has been a disaster.There’s clear squad balance things that need to be readdressed in January. Would you trust Jones further to bring in more of ‘his’ players?I wouldn’t on what I’ve seen. He needs results desperately over the next few weeks otherwise I think an early decision needs to be made before the Jan window.We all wanted him to succeed and I suspect we all still do. But there needs to be some big improvement soon otherwise we are in for another damaging 2nd half of season nothingness and even further away from making NEXT season successful.0 -
I was massively excited when Jones was appointed and was willing to deal with last season's style of play as a means to an end and a quick fix to get us safe, expecting this summer to be about building a side to play a more attractive and expansive style of football. Alas I think the football has got even worse and these major signings with championship reputations and big experience just haven't panned out at all. I'll give him Alex Mitchell, Edwards and Godden as summer arrivals that have at least shown they'll be good signings.
I just don't know where this goes - he's too stubborn to change the style of play , i don't expect us to suddenly be a buccaneering 433 with Dixon and TC flanking Leaburn as we pass teams off the pitch with 40 pass moves but the current style of play is some of the worst I've seen. I also wonder how long his methods will last with the players before they suss him out like Southampton and Stoke did.
I really don't want to be back on the managerial merry-go-round again because it makes the club look like a laughing stock but Jones has to turn this around and fast. If Jones doesn't turn this around then I expect Scott and Rodwell to go with him because it's been a complete disaster recruitment wise both managerially and on the player front.4
