Electric Cars

I can’t help thinking this is one of those threads that people will look back on in five or 10 years and laugh.

JamesSeed said:

I can’t help thinking this is one of those threads that people will look back on in five or 10 years and laugh.

about how naive the world was to actually think we could all switch to driving electric vehicles without having sufficient non-carbon electricity generation capacity in place first ? 

letthegoodtimesroll said:

JamesSeed said:

I can’t help thinking this is one of those threads that people will look back on in five or 10 years and laugh.

about how naive the world was to actually think we could all switch to driving electric vehicles without having sufficient non-carbon electricity generation capacity in place first ? 

No, more about how easy it is/was to spread misinformation. 

Showmetheway2gohome said:

JamesSeed said:

letthegoodtimesroll said:

JamesSeed said:

I can’t help thinking this is one of those threads that people will look back on in five or 10 years and laugh.

about how naive the world was to actually think we could all switch to driving electric vehicles without having sufficient non-carbon electricity generation capacity in place first ? 

No, more about how easy it is/was to spread misinformation. 

Think you’ll look back in 10 years and find the misinformation came from the politicians as usual.

Fossil fuel lobby ? Tory polititions ?  Same people, surely ?

Hex said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Hex said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

So basically there is at present little appetite from the public. Can’t believe it’s because they don’t believe it’s a good idea to move away from ICE. It’s exactly what some of us have suggested and that’s cost, infrastructure and concerns about how long a EV is viable to run before another massive investment is required. It will happen but the whole thing needs a big rethink on how to proceed. 

Utter nonsense @ShootersHillGuru.  @JamesSeed is right.  Given how much misinformation about EVs is produced by the fossil fuel industry and willingly and repeatedly spread by those who should know better, I'm not surprised that sales are not quite as high as predicted.

The car manufacturers have the big problem of moving their production from ICE to EV.  That in itself must be giving them nightmares as it cannot be a straightline conversion.  Then they have to ensure the EV sales meet the (Tory) government percentages of all car (and van ?) sales.  That is also problematic.

When we ordered our Volvo we were told 5-8 months.  It was ready in 7 months.  While we were in a VW showroom we asked about the ID3.  The response was 'don't bother, it's over a year, we can't get them for the showroom'.

So tell me where I’m wrong bearing in mind I’ve not quoted anything from the fossil fuel lobby. What’s the cost of replacing a battery ? The car industry are obviously concerned with sales and requesting a rethink by the government. The public are obviously worried and voting with their wallets. Where’s the utter nonsense in my post ?

Tell me where the figures indicate "there is at present little appetite from the public" - Source SMMT

Statistics are always a handy tool. But you have to look a little more at the detail. The increase in sales in BEVs seems impressive but then you find out that that is largely driven by very heavily discounted fleet sales.  (Fleet buyers can get an electric vehicle for less than its petrol equivalent.  Such prices being available because manufacturers struggle to avoid the penalties for not selling enough electric cars.)  The appetite for such vehicles amongst private buyers is not so strong with only 18% of sales to Joe Public being for electric vehicles.  Quite what large quantities of ex-fleet electric vehicles hitting the second-hand market will do to residual values in a couple of years  - I dread to think. 

Hex said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Hex said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

So basically there is at present little appetite from the public. Can’t believe it’s because they don’t believe it’s a good idea to move away from ICE. It’s exactly what some of us have suggested and that’s cost, infrastructure and concerns about how long a EV is viable to run before another massive investment is required. It will happen but the whole thing needs a big rethink on how to proceed. 

Utter nonsense @ShootersHillGuru.  @JamesSeed is right.  Given how much misinformation about EVs is produced by the fossil fuel industry and willingly and repeatedly spread by those who should know better, I'm not surprised that sales are not quite as high as predicted.

The car manufacturers have the big problem of moving their production from ICE to EV.  That in itself must be giving them nightmares as it cannot be a straightline conversion.  Then they have to ensure the EV sales meet the (Tory) government percentages of all car (and van ?) sales.  That is also problematic.

When we ordered our Volvo we were told 5-8 months.  It was ready in 7 months.  While we were in a VW showroom we asked about the ID3.  The response was 'don't bother, it's over a year, we can't get them for the showroom'.

So tell me where I’m wrong bearing in mind I’ve not quoted anything from the fossil fuel lobby. What’s the cost of replacing a battery ? The car industry are obviously concerned with sales and requesting a rethink by the government. The public are obviously worried and voting with their wallets. Where’s the utter nonsense in my post ?

Tell me where the figures indicate "there is at present little appetite from the public" - Source SMMT

 Is there any indication of many of those sales are company/fleet car ‘purchases’ as opposed to private individuals opting to spend their own money on getting one ?

Was speaking to a family from Oslo yesterday and he told me 90% of the country drive an ev. He got one before it got to 60% of the country driving one and the incentives ranged from free charging when he first got it to driving in bus lanes, which were (as expected) taken away once around 60% of the country owned an ev.

MrWalker said:

I cant escape the image of the decaying hulks of thousands of electric cars that no one has the money, or inclination, to spend £20k to buy a replacement battery after 10 years or so.
My 12 year old car has had a couple of hoses replaced since I've owned it. £120

In 10 years time, battery technology would have advanced so much, surely battery prices will drop.

guinnessaddick said:

MrWalker said:

I cant escape the image of the decaying hulks of thousands of electric cars that no one has the money, or inclination, to spend £20k to buy a replacement battery after 10 years or so.
My 12 year old car has had a couple of hoses replaced since I've owned it. £120

In 10 years time, battery technology would have advanced so much, surely battery prices will drop.

Great.
So, what, half the price? 
So £10k?

£5K?
The blinkered advocates say any criticism is created by the oil companies, deep state or the plain ignorant.


But there are valid questions that need answering.

MrWalker said:

guinnessaddick said:

MrWalker said:

I cant escape the image of the decaying hulks of thousands of electric cars that no one has the money, or inclination, to spend £20k to buy a replacement battery after 10 years or so.
My 12 year old car has had a couple of hoses replaced since I've owned it. £120

In 10 years time, battery technology would have advanced so much, surely battery prices will drop.

Great.
So, what, half the price? 
So £10k?

£5K?
The blinkered advocates say any criticism is created by the oil companies, deep state or the plain ignorant.


But there are valid questions that need answering.

Let me put your mind at rest.  You may have to pay £20k currently for a Tesla battery but you can get a Renault Zoe battery for £2-2,500.

Rothko said:

MrWalker said:

I cant escape the image of the decaying hulks of thousands of electric cars that no one has the money, or inclination, to spend £20k to buy a replacement battery after 10 years or so.
My 12 year old car has had a couple of hoses replaced since I've owned it. £120

Most batteries will do 600k miles, and there are EVs with million on the clock on their original batteries 

Do possibly, but to what level? My Cabbie has a model Y, bought brand new about 16 months ago, now got 140k on it, battery is now down to a little over 80%. It'll be next to no use to him once that gets down to about 60% in another 18 months time. It's bad enough he 'charges' about 15% more now as he can't do quite as many trips a day (charging time!)

ShootersHillGuru said:

So if I’m reading the above correctly, an EV with a new battery will do 600k miles on that original battery so the need for any EV owner to replace a battery at any point is extremely unlikely. Unlikely even if that 600k turns out to be 300k. That’s something I’m not aware of and in many respects is a game changer. On the other hand I understand most EV batteries warranties last for 8 - 15 years or 100k miles. Somewhat of a discrepancy here ? A more realistic figure is 150k miles, so around 15 years which to me seems decent enough.

See above, it's not really how long they last but how they last. The batteries degrade so distance they are able to travel lessons mile by mile.