I cant escape the image of the decaying hulks of thousands of electric cars that no one has the money, or inclination, to spend £20k to buy a replacement battery after 10 years or so. My 12 year old car has had a couple of hoses replaced since I've owned it. £120
Most batteries will do 600k miles, and there are EVs with million on the clock on their original batteries
Do possibly, but to what level? My Cabbie has a model Y, bought brand new about 16 months ago, now got 140k on it, battery is now down to a little over 80%. It'll be next to no use to him once that gets down to about 60% in another 18 months time. It's bad enough he 'charges' about 15% more now as he can't do quite as many trips a day (charging time!)
So if I’m reading the above correctly, an EV with a new battery will do 600k miles on that original battery so the need for any EV owner to replace a battery at any point is extremely unlikely. Unlikely even if that 600k turns out to be 300k. That’s something I’m not aware of and in many respects is a game changer. On the other hand I understand most EV batteries warranties last for 8 - 15 years or 100k miles. Somewhat of a discrepancy here ? A more realistic figure is 150k miles, so around 15 years which to me seems decent enough.
See above, it's not really how long they last but how they last. The batteries degrade so distance they are able to travel lessons mile by mile.
My only experience of an EV was a courtesy/hire car from Gatwick. Enterprise assured me that it had ample charge to get me the 83 miles back to Broadstairs. When we got in the car it showed a range of just under 200 miles. By the time we got home it was down to about 20. It was the most stressful drive that I have ever had. Who wants to drive like that?
Gordon Brown had everybody rushing to by diesel vehicles as they were greener than petrol ones although they were more polluting. The large number of diesels sold on his advice was the precusser to today's problems.
I think that’s true but politicians make policy on the advice of industry and scientific experts.
Vauxhall is set to close its car factory after 120 years in a move the company is blaming on the Government’s Net Zero EV sales targets. Stellantis, which also controls the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen brands, has blamed Government EV sales targets for the decision to shutter the factory, which first opened in 1905 and has been making vans for almost a century.
Vauxhall is set to close its car factory after 120 years in a move the company is blaming on the Government’s Net Zero EV sales targets.
Stellantis, which also controls the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen brands, has blamed Government EV sales targets for the decision to shutter the factory, which first opened in 1905 and has been making vans for almost a century.
Whether or not the 2030 government target is realistic or not given the current technology and infrastructure issues is a big crossover with the climate emergency thread. We don’t have the luxury of time in forcing through green solutions and allowing the EV technology and infrastructure issues to pan out and resolve in the normal way. I guess in the final analysis we might just have to suck it up.
Vauxhall is set to close its car factory after 120 years in a move the company is blaming on the Government’s Net Zero EV sales targets.
Stellantis, which also controls the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen brands, has blamed Government EV sales targets for the decision to shutter the factory, which first opened in 1905 and has been making vans for almost a century.
Whether or not the 2030 government target is realistic or not given the current technology and infrastructure issues is a big crossover with the climate emergency thread. We don’t have the luxury of time in forcing through green solutions and allowing the EV technology and infrastructure issues to pan out and resolve in the normal way. I guess in the final analysis we might just have to suck it up.
This is it. Renewable energy is great however it is not guaranteed like coal, oil and gas. Now we aren't using coal anymore or making steel it isn't like we don't need either anymore, just means we import it which is absolutely definitely zero carbon footprint. Wind turbines are a false economy, solar is better however we are so far behind the curve with it and frankly the country isn't sunny enough for it to be a game changer. Tidal power would be sensible as would investing in desalination but that carries a carbon negative cost that scares people off.
And we need fossil fuels and materials to make the EVs and their batteries, so yeah long way to go
Vauxhall is set to close its car factory after 120 years in a move the company is blaming on the Government’s Net Zero EV sales targets.
Stellantis, which also controls the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen brands, has blamed Government EV sales targets for the decision to shutter the factory, which first opened in 1905 and has been making vans for almost a century.
Whether or not the 2030 government target is realistic or not given the current technology and infrastructure issues is a big crossover with the climate emergency thread. We don’t have the luxury of time in forcing through green solutions and allowing the EV technology and infrastructure issues to pan out and resolve in the normal way. I guess in the final analysis we might just have to suck it up.
I take it, that all government officials used electric vehicles then?
Was speaking to a family from Oslo yesterday and he told me 90% of the country drive an ev. He got one before it got to 60% of the country driving one and the incentives ranged from free charging when he first got it to driving in bus lanes, which were (as expected) taken away once around 60% of the country owned an ev.
Hydroelectricity is the predominant source of power and the government subsidises the cost.
Vauxhall is set to close its car factory after 120 years in a move the company is blaming on the Government’s Net Zero EV sales targets.
Stellantis, which also controls the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen brands, has blamed Government EV sales targets for the decision to shutter the factory, which first opened in 1905 and has been making vans for almost a century.
Whether or not the 2030 government target is realistic or not given the current technology and infrastructure issues is a big crossover with the climate emergency thread. We don’t have the luxury of time in forcing through green solutions and allowing the EV technology and infrastructure issues to pan out and resolve in the normal way. I guess in the final analysis we might just have to suck it up.
This is it. Renewable energy is great however it is not guaranteed like coal, oil and gas. Now we aren't using coal anymore or making steel it isn't like we don't need either anymore, just means we import it which is absolutely definitely zero carbon footprint. Wind turbines are a false economy, solar is better however we are so far behind the curve with it and frankly the country isn't sunny enough for it to be a game changer. Tidal power would be sensible as would investing in desalination but that carries a carbon negative cost that scares people off.
And we need fossil fuels and materials to make the EVs and their batteries, so yeah long way to go
and that's why you need storage capacity, which is coming on line more and more, and EVs are an important part of that capacity. 60kw EV will hold enough electricity for a home for a week, and you'll soon be in a place where your car will be used for storing excess electric from renewables, and then pulled back into the grid as required.
Recycled EV batteries, which is where more and more go once they are scrapped, are on houses now being used as storage, or being filled up cheaply overnight and then used during the day.
Vauxhall is set to close its car factory after 120 years in a move the company is blaming on the Government’s Net Zero EV sales targets.
Stellantis, which also controls the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen brands, has blamed Government EV sales targets for the decision to shutter the factory, which first opened in 1905 and has been making vans for almost a century.
Whether or not the 2030 government target is realistic or not given the current technology and infrastructure issues is a big crossover with the climate emergency thread. We don’t have the luxury of time in forcing through green solutions and allowing the EV technology and infrastructure issues to pan out and resolve in the normal way. I guess in the final analysis we might just have to suck it up.
That’s it in a nutshell, @ShootersHillGuru. We can’t wait for the EV solution that gives a seamless conversion from ICE. We do not have the time !
Vauxhall is set to close its car factory after 120 years in a move the company is blaming on the Government’s Net Zero EV sales targets.
Stellantis, which also controls the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen brands, has blamed Government EV sales targets for the decision to shutter the factory, which first opened in 1905 and has been making vans for almost a century.
Whether or not the 2030 government target is realistic or not given the current technology and infrastructure issues is a big crossover with the climate emergency thread. We don’t have the luxury of time in forcing through green solutions and allowing the EV technology and infrastructure issues to pan out and resolve in the normal way. I guess in the final analysis we might just have to suck it up.
That’s it in a nutshell, @ShootersHillGuru. We can’t wait for the EV solution that gives a seamless conversion from ICE. We do not have the time !
Climate Change happens gradually though. People don't see it as a crisis as they would a nuclear bomb coming our way or a meteorite about to hit, when they'd react quicker. It's complacency in the face of adversity.
The truth about EV battery life & charging best practice by Petrol Ped
Not really "the truth" You will need a "chunk of change" to buy a replacement battery. No costs mentioned. No lifespan stated. Only 8 year manufacturers warranty....
Anecdotal recycling/second hand battery waffle.
More propaganda from the electric zealots. In this case a bloke who installs electric motors in classic cars. Which is brilliant and something I'm all in favour of. I will be doing this early in the spring. Far preferable than the anodyne boxes being produced today.
Vauxhall is set to close its car factory after 120 years in a move the company is blaming on the Government’s Net Zero EV sales targets.
Stellantis, which also controls the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen brands, has blamed Government EV sales targets for the decision to shutter the factory, which first opened in 1905 and has been making vans for almost a century.
Whether or not the 2030 government target is realistic or not given the current technology and infrastructure issues is a big crossover with the climate emergency thread. We don’t have the luxury of time in forcing through green solutions and allowing the EV technology and infrastructure issues to pan out and resolve in the normal way. I guess in the final analysis we might just have to suck it up.
The USA and Canada certainly don't seem worried about this.
The Ford F150 continues to be the best selling vehicle in both countries, and both countries have cheap enough energy that nobody thinks twice about turning on the heating in winter.
The UK's decision to commit industrial suicide is weird
Vauxhall is set to close its car factory after 120 years in a move the company is blaming on the Government’s Net Zero EV sales targets.
Stellantis, which also controls the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen brands, has blamed Government EV sales targets for the decision to shutter the factory, which first opened in 1905 and has been making vans for almost a century.
Whether or not the 2030 government target is realistic or not given the current technology and infrastructure issues is a big crossover with the climate emergency thread. We don’t have the luxury of time in forcing through green solutions and allowing the EV technology and infrastructure issues to pan out and resolve in the normal way. I guess in the final analysis we might just have to suck it up.
The USA and Canada certainly don't seem worried about this.
The Ford F150 continues to be the best selling vehicle in both countries, and both countries have cheap enough energy that nobody thinks twice about turning on the heating in winter.
The UK's decision to commit industrial suicide is weird
That reassures you that it's not a crisis demanding action now does it? Ignoring the science and pandering to the god of greed. The UK government is taking responsibility, aren't alone, and aren't even leading on this.
My only experience of an EV was a courtesy/hire car from Gatwick. Enterprise assured me that it had ample charge to get me the 83 miles back to Broadstairs. When we got in the car it showed a range of just under 200 miles. By the time we got home it was down to about 20. It was the most stressful drive that I have ever had. Who wants to drive like that?
Was it winter? The range drops sharply then. Does on my PHEV battery too, showing about half the range I was getting just 6-8 weeks ago. Now, I wonder whether the manufacturer’s claimed range is a sensible 12 month average, or from a lovely spring or autumn day when neither aircon nor heating is much in use? This is another thing that engenders mistrust and scepticism.
My only experience of an EV was a courtesy/hire car from Gatwick. Enterprise assured me that it had ample charge to get me the 83 miles back to Broadstairs. When we got in the car it showed a range of just under 200 miles. By the time we got home it was down to about 20. It was the most stressful drive that I have ever had. Who wants to drive like that?
Was it winter? The range drops sharply then. Does on my PHEV battery too, showing about half the range I was getting just 6-8 weeks ago. Now, I wonder whether the manufacturer’s claimed range is a sensible 12 month average, or from a lovely spring or autumn day when neither aircon nor heating is much in use? This is another thing that engenders mistrust and scepticism.
Obviously we have a new battery but the range variation is 240 in the summer and 220 in the winter. I've not noticed any dramatic reductions in range.
My only experience of an EV was a courtesy/hire car from Gatwick. Enterprise assured me that it had ample charge to get me the 83 miles back to Broadstairs. When we got in the car it showed a range of just under 200 miles. By the time we got home it was down to about 20. It was the most stressful drive that I have ever had. Who wants to drive like that?
Was it winter? The range drops sharply then. Does on my PHEV battery too, showing about half the range I was getting just 6-8 weeks ago. Now, I wonder whether the manufacturer’s claimed range is a sensible 12 month average, or from a lovely spring or autumn day when neither aircon nor heating is much in use? This is another thing that engenders mistrust and scepticism.
The manufacturers use this:
To work out the WLTP,
they will find the range the car travels (from 100% to 0%) when driving
at an average speed of 46.5 km/h (28.8 mph) in summer temperatures.
No surprise then that real world ranges are always fewer, in some cases much fewer than the official.
My old EV had a range when fully charged of 240 in summer and 200 in winter, and that was realistic in normal driving although as the battery charge reduced the miles seemed to fall off much quicker - certainly not a linear decline.
After much deliberation and taking note of the comments on this thread I’ve decided that when I change my car in the spring I’m going to go for a petrol / hybrid. I’d expect it to be the last ICE car I purchase so will watch with great interest what happens over the next four years.
After much deliberation and taking note of the comments on this thread I’ve decided that when I change my car in the spring I’m going to go for a petrol / hybrid. I’d expect it to be the last ICE car I purchase so will watch with great interest what happens over the next four years.
I’m looking to change mine now and will do the same. Reading the SMMT report it seems like unsustainable discounts/incentives are behind the electric car sales, which is hardly a vote of confidence in electric cars
The notion of swapping the batteries seems to be a good idea. I would think that most people can’t charge an electric vehicle at home due to not having a ‘drive’.
The notion of swapping the batteries seems to be a good idea. I would think that most people can’t charge an electric vehicle at home due to not having a ‘drive’.
Some drivers do not know how to change a wheel, let alone a battery
The notion of swapping the batteries seems to be a good idea. I would think that most people can’t charge an electric vehicle at home due to not having a ‘drive’.
It’s not really an option.
You might have heard that EVs tend to weigh more than combustion engine cars – this is true and is largely due to their battery. On average, EV batteries weigh around 454 kg (1,000 pounds), with bigger models weighing as much as 900 kg (2,000 pounds) and some even up to 1,800 kg (4,000 pounds).24 May 2023
After much deliberation and taking note of the comments on this thread I’ve decided that when I change my car in the spring I’m going to go for a petrol / hybrid. I’d expect it to be the last ICE car I purchase so will watch with great interest what happens over the next four years.
Petrol hybrid cars are a great way of combining the worst of both worlds. It's a bit like the Ricky Gervais line when he talks about being English, but with French ancestry (from his surname). He says, "I am shit in bed, but at least my breath stinks of garlic".
Comments
See above, it's not really how long they last but how they last. The batteries degrade so distance they are able to travel lessons mile by mile.
When we got in the car it showed a range of just under 200 miles. By the time we got home it was down to about 20. It was the most stressful drive that I have ever had. Who wants to drive like that?
Stellantis, which also controls the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen brands, has blamed Government EV sales targets for the decision to shutter the factory, which first opened in 1905 and has been making vans for almost a century.
And we need fossil fuels and materials to make the EVs and their batteries, so yeah long way to go
Recycled EV batteries, which is where more and more go once they are scrapped, are on houses now being used as storage, or being filled up cheaply overnight and then used during the day.
The truth about EV battery life & charging best practice by Petrol Ped
You will need a "chunk of change" to buy a replacement battery. No costs mentioned.
No lifespan stated.
Only 8 year manufacturers warranty....
Anecdotal recycling/second hand battery waffle.
More propaganda from the electric zealots. In this case a bloke who installs electric motors in classic cars. Which is brilliant and something I'm all in favour of. I will be doing this early in the spring. Far preferable than the anodyne boxes being produced today.
The Ford F150 continues to be the best selling vehicle in both countries, and both countries have cheap enough energy that nobody thinks twice about turning on the heating in winter.
The UK's decision to commit industrial suicide is weird
Vast majority are company cars.
I would think that most people can’t charge an electric vehicle at home due to not having a ‘drive’.
Some drivers do not know how to change a wheel, let alone a battery
For info : 454 kg is 71 stones