Kelman and Leaburn are playing at different times in the game, Miles has the advantage of coming in against tiring players, we don’t know how he would have done against two fresh centre halves. Likewise Kelman can’t come on with fresh legs.
suspect the Charlie Kelman we see post international break will be a different player
Or maybe Miles should start, and Kelman come on as a sub in the next game?
Miles style (and Tanto) seems to favour the finisher roles, massive injection of pace and power against tiring defenders
I think Kelman, if he read this thread, would find the over sensitive comments defending him baffling, indeed hilarious. I've seen several comments attacking people for writing him off, despite nobody on this thread actually writing him off.
He knows that nobody's place in the side is guaranteed, and that we have lots of options in attacking areas. He'll be completely aware that Miles and Tanto have looked really good off the bench, and that both deserve to start. He'll also be especially aware that Godden is a better all round striker than him at the moment, indeed that's why he's been asking Godden for advice. Once Godden is full fit and up to speed, to me he starts games like Bristol City yesterday, as he's the perfect person to lead the line for an hour in a tough away game.
And a reminder that while Kelman scored more goals than Godden last season, Godden actually had the better goals per 90 (0.64 vs 0.56) as he played fewer games and minutes, so it's not as if Kelman is a way better finisher than Godden.
I don’t see how Kelman should be a guaranteed starter just because we paid £3.5m for him. Leaburn and TC are both probably worth more than that.
Also not sure why people have invented that he didn’t have a pre-season. He wasn’t frozen out at QPR, he did pre-season and played in friendlies for them so he should be fit
I thought he was better yesterday than against Watford, just hope he can continue getting better with each game he plays. I would start Leaburn next week though, just think we need that physical presence up top and TC played well enough to keep his place. It’s easier to come on as a sub and look good so might benefit Kelman coming on fresh against tired legs
I don’t see how Kelman should be a guaranteed starter just because we paid £3.5m for him. Leaburn and TC are both probably worth more than that.
Also not sure why people have invented that he didn’t have a pre-season. He wasn’t frozen out at QPR, he did pre-season and played in friendlies for them so he should be fit
I thought he was better yesterday than against Watford, just hope he can continue getting better with each game he plays. I would start Leaburn next week though, just think we need that physical presence up top and TC played well enough to keep his place. It’s easier to come on as a sub and look good so might benefit Kelman coming on fresh against tired legs
He played 70 minutes of football before the Ipswich friendly for us, 11 days between those games where the transfer played out, and didn’t feature for QPR in 3 out of the 5 games they had before he became a Charlton player.
That’s a fraction of the minutes compared to say Carey or Apter who have both hit the ground running; and less then Tanto, Miles and TC
I don’t see how Kelman should be a guaranteed starter just because we paid £3.5m for him. Leaburn and TC are both probably worth more than that.
Also not sure why people have invented that he didn’t have a pre-season. He wasn’t frozen out at QPR, he did pre-season and played in friendlies for them so he should be fit
I thought he was better yesterday than against Watford, just hope he can continue getting better with each game he plays. I would start Leaburn next week though, just think we need that physical presence up top and TC played well enough to keep his place. It’s easier to come on as a sub and look good so might benefit Kelman coming on fresh against tired legs
He played 70 minutes of football before the Ipswich friendly for us, 11 days between those games where the transfer played out, and didn’t feature for QPR in 3 out of the 5 games they had before he became a Charlton player.
That’s a fraction of the minutes compared to say Carey or Apter who have both hit the ground running; and less then Tanto, Miles and TC
He will still have done all the fitness work at QPR though, in fact they would have started a week earlier than we did also. And he’s now played a part in 6 games in total. Getting used to new style and teammates is fair enough, but his fitness and pre-season shouldn’t be an excuse now
I don’t see how Kelman should be a guaranteed starter just because we paid £3.5m for him. Leaburn and TC are both probably worth more than that.
Also not sure why people have invented that he didn’t have a pre-season. He wasn’t frozen out at QPR, he did pre-season and played in friendlies for them so he should be fit
I thought he was better yesterday than against Watford, just hope he can continue getting better with each game he plays. I would start Leaburn next week though, just think we need that physical presence up top and TC played well enough to keep his place. It’s easier to come on as a sub and look good so might benefit Kelman coming on fresh against tired legs
He played 70 minutes of football before the Ipswich friendly for us, 11 days between those games where the transfer played out, and didn’t feature for QPR in 3 out of the 5 games they had before he became a Charlton player.
That’s a fraction of the minutes compared to say Carey or Apter who have both hit the ground running; and less then Tanto, Miles and TC
He will still have done all the fitness work at QPR though, in fact they would have started a week earlier than we did also. And he’s now played a part in 6 games in total. Getting used to new style and teammates is fair enough, but his fitness and pre-season shouldn’t be an excuse now
To be entirely fair, there is probably a difference between "fit" and "Nathan Jones system fit'', our success is built on the fact that even other professional footballers get worn down by a constant press.
He's probably fit/match fit by most standards but still "off the pace" by Charlton levels.
He needs a goal. Pure and simple. He’s a striker and it’ll be weighing heavy on him until he gets that first one. Once he does the pressure will be off and he’ll grow in confidence. Looking at his goals from last season, they’re not flukes. He knows where the goal is and when he finds his fitness the goals will come.
I thought the fact that he was subbed at almost bang on 60 minutes was a clear indicator that his minutes are being managed. I thought he was much busier Saturday and I think we'll continue to see improvements as he gets back to full fitness
Kelman will come good, we were saying the same about May and Godden when they had slow starts. Everyone needs to calm down. I’d be worried if he was missing sitters but he’s not, once fully fit he will start scoring. I can’t see how under Jones, he won’t improve.
Viktor Gyokeres signed for Arsenal for £64m and yesterday he failed to register a shot on target for the first time since April 2023. Chelsea spent £55m on Joao Pedro and he managed one shot yesterday. It wasn't on target. Coming into an established team as a striker is one of the hardest jobs and as you're dependent on supply from the rest of the team you have to learn to move into areas where the players behind you can find you and to impose yourself on games when the supply isn't coming. Alfie May took a while to adapt and then suddenly was involved all over the pitch, same with Godden. Ahadme couldn't figure out how to fit in around the rest of the team. TC struggled until we changed our shape to give him a bit more space and he became our most important player. I think Kelman will take a bit of time but he just needs to pop up on the end of a couple of crosses or sink a penalty while he's still working on fitting in, same as Godden did
He wanted to leave Loftus Road Kelman Kelman He tried an East London Postcode Kelman Kelman He saw us win at Wembley, and said that's where I wanna be Charlie Kelman, Charlton's 23
I think Kelman, if he read this thread, would find the over sensitive comments defending him baffling, indeed hilarious. I've seen several comments attacking people for writing him off, despite nobody on this thread actually writing him off.
He knows that nobody's place in the side is guaranteed, and that we have lots of options in attacking areas. He'll be completely aware that Miles and Tanto have looked really good off the bench, and that both deserve to start. He'll also be especially aware that Godden is a better all round striker than him at the moment, indeed that's why he's been asking Godden for advice. Once Godden is full fit and up to speed, to me he starts games like Bristol City yesterday, as he's the perfect person to lead the line for an hour in a tough away game.
And a reminder that while Kelman scored more goals than Godden last season, Godden actually had the better goals per 90 (0.64 vs 0.56) as he played fewer games and minutes, so it's not as if Kelman is a way better finisher than Godden.
Regardless of his goals or lack of them, we need somebody up front who the ball will stick to, and feed him. TC isn't that man.
No we don't. At our most effective last season Godden was bringing TC into play and then running off him to look to receive the ball back. Kelman needs to be an active participant in the build up, not just someone who finishes a chance at the end. For all Godden played a poaching role he was involved in the play far beyond just putting the ball in the net. TC is consistently our most threatening player and Kelman needs to work out the best way to mesh with him. Godden figured out he could drop a little deeper, win a high ball and then quickly turn and look to play TC in behind the defence. Once the defenders scrambled to double up and try and get in front of TC gaps appeared that Godden would exploit. Kelman isn't there just to be teed up.
I think Kelman, if he read this thread, would find the over sensitive comments defending him baffling, indeed hilarious. I've seen several comments attacking people for writing him off, despite nobody on this thread actually writing him off.
He knows that nobody's place in the side is guaranteed, and that we have lots of options in attacking areas. He'll be completely aware that Miles and Tanto have looked really good off the bench, and that both deserve to start. He'll also be especially aware that Godden is a better all round striker than him at the moment, indeed that's why he's been asking Godden for advice. Once Godden is full fit and up to speed, to me he starts games like Bristol City yesterday, as he's the perfect person to lead the line for an hour in a tough away game.
And a reminder that while Kelman scored more goals than Godden last season, Godden actually had the better goals per 90 (0.64 vs 0.56) as he played fewer games and minutes, so it's not as if Kelman is a way better finisher than Godden.
Godden, I believe, took one more penalty than Kelman. But if we are talking about all round play and influences on a game then one has to accept that Kelman's five assists, as opposed to Godden's one, has to be taken into account. Even ignoring that difference in penalties, Kelman had 26 goal involvements (0.69 per game) as opposed to Godden's 19 (0.68 per game).
My own personal opinion is that Godden was proven at Championship level albeit that he is now 34 and the last time he played at that level he scored 6 goals with no assists in 2,047 minutes which equates to a goal involvement every 3.79 matches so he still has to demonstrate that he can do it at this level once again. Whereas Kelman has proven nothing in the Championship but, there again, he is only 23 and remember that Godden didn't score in the Championship until he was 29. Kelman might too be a late developer but we won't know unless NJ is prepared to play him.
Regardless of his goals or lack of them, we need somebody up front who the ball will stick to, and feed him. TC isn't that man.
No we don't. At our most effective last season Godden was bringing TC into play and then running off him to look to receive the ball back. Kelman needs to be an active participant in the build up, not just someone who finishes a chance at the end. For all Godden played a poaching role he was involved in the play far beyond just putting the ball in the net. TC is consistently our most threatening player and Kelman needs to work out the best way to mesh with him. Godden figured out he could drop a little deeper, win a high ball and then quickly turn and look to play TC in behind the defence. Once the defenders scrambled to double up and try and get in front of TC gaps appeared that Godden would exploit. Kelman isn't there just to be teed up.
This is the whole point of a lot of this thread’s discussion though. Kelman is not Godden, he doesn’t get involved in build up play and isn’t good in the air. To get the best out of Kelman we might need someone else to do those things
I’m sure our long term plan is to develop Kelman to be a more well-rounded striker, but that kind of development takes time. So for now it might be that if Kelman starts, he needs someone with him to do those things.
I’d be starting Leaburn and TC next week but I’d imagine we will keep with the same team. I don’t mind it because Leaburn and Olaofe as a pair from the bench works well, and finishing the game strongly is obviously a big strength of ours
Regardless of his goals or lack of them, we need somebody up front who the ball will stick to, and feed him. TC isn't that man.
No we don't. At our most effective last season Godden was bringing TC into play and then running off him to look to receive the ball back. Kelman needs to be an active participant in the build up, not just someone who finishes a chance at the end. For all Godden played a poaching role he was involved in the play far beyond just putting the ball in the net. TC is consistently our most threatening player and Kelman needs to work out the best way to mesh with him. Godden figured out he could drop a little deeper, win a high ball and then quickly turn and look to play TC in behind the defence. Once the defenders scrambled to double up and try and get in front of TC gaps appeared that Godden would exploit. Kelman isn't there just to be teed up.
This is the whole point of a lot of this thread’s discussion though. Kelman is not Godden, he doesn’t get involved in build up play and isn’t good in the air. To get the best out of Kelman we might need someone else to do those things
I’m sure our long term plan is to develop Kelman to be a more well-rounded striker, but that kind of development takes time. So for now it might be that if Kelman starts, he needs someone with him to do those things.
I’d be starting Leaburn and TC next week but I’d imagine we will keep with the same team. I don’t mind it because Leaburn and Olaofe as a pair from the bench works well, and finishing the game strongly is obviously a big strength of ours
The development happens on the pitch though. Godden wasn't Godden when he first started with us. The version of Matt Godden we had at the start of the season who was getting on the end of things here and there and the all-action one we had at the end were completely different, he figured out over time how to fit in with the team. Kelman was plenty involved in the build up at Orient regardless of any differences in their approach, he got 5 assists and they weren't playing some completely alien set-up. Kelman is new, he needs to find his place in the team and hopefully he will but I suspect he's going to have to adapt to it, not it to him
Regardless of his goals or lack of them, we need somebody up front who the ball will stick to, and feed him. TC isn't that man.
No we don't. At our most effective last season Godden was bringing TC into play and then running off him to look to receive the ball back. Kelman needs to be an active participant in the build up, not just someone who finishes a chance at the end. For all Godden played a poaching role he was involved in the play far beyond just putting the ball in the net. TC is consistently our most threatening player and Kelman needs to work out the best way to mesh with him. Godden figured out he could drop a little deeper, win a high ball and then quickly turn and look to play TC in behind the defence. Once the defenders scrambled to double up and try and get in front of TC gaps appeared that Godden would exploit. Kelman isn't there just to be teed up.
This is the whole point of a lot of this thread’s discussion though. Kelman is not Godden, he doesn’t get involved in build up play and isn’t good in the air. To get the best out of Kelman we might need someone else to do those things
I’m sure our long term plan is to develop Kelman to be a more well-rounded striker, but that kind of development takes time. So for now it might be that if Kelman starts, he needs someone with him to do those things.
I’d be starting Leaburn and TC next week but I’d imagine we will keep with the same team. I don’t mind it because Leaburn and Olaofe as a pair from the bench works well, and finishing the game strongly is obviously a big strength of ours
The development happens on the pitch though. Godden wasn't Godden when he first started with us. The version of Matt Godden we had at the start of the season who was getting on the end of things here and there and the all-action one we had at the end were completely different, he figured out over time how to fit in with the team. Kelman was plenty involved in the build up at Orient regardless of any differences in their approach, he got 5 assists and they weren't playing some completely alien set-up. Kelman is new, he needs to find his place in the team and hopefully he will but I suspect he's going to have to adapt to it, not it to him
Getting 5 assists doesn’t mean he was involved in build up play. He wasn’t, that’s not his game at all
Kelman last season was in the bottom 20% of league 1 strikers for passes per 90, very little involvement. For comparison, Godden was in the top half, Kone the top 20%, both much more involved for their teams build up
I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect Kelman to improve his back to goal, link up play and aerial ability all in the next month or so. That’s not going to happen, we’ve got him on a long contract which by the end of it he might have improved all of those to the level required and will then be a brilliant all-round striker. For the now though we definitely need to adapt to him, if he’s on the halfway line we need to play the ball to him less often, instead put it in behind for him to chase and turn their defence around
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He knows that nobody's place in the side is guaranteed, and that we have lots of options in attacking areas. He'll be completely aware that Miles and Tanto have looked really good off the bench, and that both deserve to start. He'll also be especially aware that Godden is a better all round striker than him at the moment, indeed that's why he's been asking Godden for advice. Once Godden is full fit and up to speed, to me he starts games like Bristol City yesterday, as he's the perfect person to lead the line for an hour in a tough away game.
And a reminder that while Kelman scored more goals than Godden last season, Godden actually had the better goals per 90 (0.64 vs 0.56) as he played fewer games and minutes, so it's not as if Kelman is a way better finisher than Godden.
https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/leagues/108/stats/season/23745/players/goals_per_90/league-one
Also not sure why people have invented that he didn’t have a pre-season. He wasn’t frozen out at QPR, he did pre-season and played in friendlies for them so he should be fit
I thought he was better yesterday than against Watford, just hope he can continue getting better with each game he plays. I would start Leaburn next week though, just think we need that physical presence up top and TC played well enough to keep his place. It’s easier to come on as a sub and look good so might benefit Kelman coming on fresh against tired legs
He's probably fit/match fit by most standards but still "off the pace" by Charlton levels.
Your welcome 😉
He wanted to leave Loftus Road Kelman Kelman
He tried an East London Postcode Kelman Kelman
He saw us win at Wembley, and said that's where I wanna be
Charlie Kelman, Charlton's 23
Seriously though, we saw an improvement at Bristol, he's evidently a work in progress.
He's an intelligent player, and will soon learn to read his team mate's moves.
My own personal opinion is that Godden was proven at Championship level albeit that he is now 34 and the last time he played at that level he scored 6 goals with no assists in 2,047 minutes which equates to a goal involvement every 3.79 matches so he still has to demonstrate that he can do it at this level once again. Whereas Kelman has proven nothing in the Championship but, there again, he is only 23 and remember that Godden didn't score in the Championship until he was 29. Kelman might too be a late developer but we won't know unless NJ is prepared to play him.
I’m sure our long term plan is to develop Kelman to be a more well-rounded striker, but that kind of development takes time. So for now it might be that if Kelman starts, he needs someone with him to do those things.
Kelman last season was in the bottom 20% of league 1 strikers for passes per 90, very little involvement. For comparison, Godden was in the top half, Kone the top 20%, both much more involved for their teams build up
I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect Kelman to improve his back to goal, link up play and aerial ability all in the next month or so. That’s not going to happen, we’ve got him on a long contract which by the end of it he might have improved all of those to the level required and will then be a brilliant all-round striker. For the now though we definitely need to adapt to him, if he’s on the halfway line we need to play the ball to him less often, instead put it in behind for him to chase and turn their defence around