Fat Jab

Solidgone said:

 said:

Diets and weight loss cures can work for people.

However, I have always found that with this the easiest thing is to lose the weight but the hardest thing is to avoid putting it back on.

IMO everything in moderation is a good view to follow.  Regular exercise and avoiding alcohol is also a good idea to get yourself in good shape.

I can follow the advice of eating sensibly and exercising okay but the alcohol part is my Achilles heel (hic!

TOOTING RED ARMY 
I haven't missed alcohol one bit after a lifetime of enjoy a pint or more. I only ever had a drink socially never on my own in a pub or at home. Great thing is non alcohol beers are really good, as I can't stand soft fizzy drinks. I enjoy being clear headed and also not the day after...Life is better now and cheaper.

ShootersHillGuru said:

The criteria for getting it prescribed on The NHS seems backward looking to me. To be eligible for Mounjaro on the NHS for weight loss, you need a BMI of 40 or over, or 37.5 or over if you are from a South Asian, Chinese, other Asian, Middle Eastern, Black African, or African-Caribbean ethnic background, and have at least four of the following five health conditions: diagnosed hypertension, obstructive sleep apnoea, type 2 diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disease, or dyslipidaemia (high cholesterol/fat levels). Surely it’s best not to allow a significant proportion of the population eventually reach the current criteria and become more of a burden on the NHS than providing the drug as a prophylactic and help keep the number of individuals becoming morbidly obese along with the associated health problems down. A false economy?

You have to have a cutoff point though.

ShootersHillGuru said:

The criteria for getting it prescribed on The NHS seems backward looking to me. To be eligible for Mounjaro on the NHS for weight loss, you need a BMI of 40 or over, or 37.5 or over if you are from a South Asian, Chinese, other Asian, Middle Eastern, Black African, or African-Caribbean ethnic background, and have at least four of the following five health conditions: diagnosed hypertension, obstructive sleep apnoea, type 2 diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disease, or dyslipidaemia (high cholesterol/fat levels). Surely it’s best not to allow a significant proportion of the population eventually reach the current criteria and become more of a burden on the NHS than providing the drug as a prophylactic and help keep the number of individuals becoming morbidly obese along with the associated health problems down. A false economy?

I presume the logic might also be if you’ve been diagnosed with one of these already you are on sone sort of advice or program to try and address it?

I assume it must be better to try and treat with alternate approaches than the most expensive drugs first. 

shine166 said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

The criteria for getting it prescribed on The NHS seems backward looking to me. To be eligible for Mounjaro on the NHS for weight loss, you need a BMI of 40 or over, or 37.5 or over if you are from a South Asian, Chinese, other Asian, Middle Eastern, Black African, or African-Caribbean ethnic background, and have at least four of the following five health conditions: diagnosed hypertension, obstructive sleep apnoea, type 2 diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disease, or dyslipidaemia (high cholesterol/fat levels). Surely it’s best not to allow a significant proportion of the population eventually reach the current criteria and become more of a burden on the NHS than providing the drug as a prophylactic and help keep the number of individuals becoming morbidly obese along with the associated health problems down. A false economy?

You have to have a cutoff point though.

In the long run I’d suggest that preventing people from becoming morbidly obese and having to seek interventions for diabetes, heart conditions, hypertension, mobility issues, raised blood cholesterol is a better option. Cheaper to provide Mounjaro or similar than the alternative. Cut off point for what exactly ? 

BalladMan said:

cafcnick1992 said:

I know people are always suspicious of the side effects of the fat jab, but surely they can't be worse than the side effects of being obese?

Agreed. A theory between friends and I on it is that a large proportion of society will be on variants of this in one or two decades.  

Ultimately, we need to break our addiction to processed food. This book was insightful before I started my journey. https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/hooked-how-we-became-addicted-to-processed-food-michael-moss/6412192

Not a theory at all. I work in the Health sector and when this first got UK approval plenty of health leaders were saying this has the potential to be the biggest factor influenced cing public health. Could be huge. 

We could end up in an odd situation where the largest people in society are the ones that have been judged to not need the jab.

stuart_lee_SE9 said:

Many are too accustomed to the convenience of a poor diet and no excercise which is exactly what makes money for the food and pharma industries.

I know a fair few people on these jabs and despite losng weight, look them in the face and look grey and gaunt - almost soulless.

Like many things in modern life, convenience unfortunately comes at a cost: https://www.financialexpress.com/business/healthcare-ozempic-faces-2-billion-lawsuits-as-patients-report-stomach-paralysis-vision-loss-explainer-3950636/

But the convenience isn't down to laziness. Today's society is incredibly time poor. For me when i have a busy week with work and othwr things going onnthe first things that get dropped are exercise and cooking from scratch you have to go for the convenience option. My wife and I both work in the Health sector so we know the importance of those things. We don't have kids or too many other responsibilities. Imagine a family with both parents working full time to pay the bills and young kids. Those convenience choices become more frequent and often the only options to get the kids fed in time. The system demands it. Is designed for it as it keeps you buying more

shine166 said:

It's called convenience food for a reason, making a meal from scratch can be put into your routine though if you manage your time. I have massive sympathy for lots of those who suffer from obesity and food related issues, but its definitely one of the only addictions where people do show lots of empathy for those that are suffering.

If this thread was about recreational drugs, I do wonder if the tone would be so supportive.

Yeah because it's about medicine not recreational drugs...

And I would say it's one of the most judged addictions in society, not one of the ones with the most empathy. Look at how fat people are portrayed in society and popular media.

shine166 said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

shine166 said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

The criteria for getting it prescribed on The NHS seems backward looking to me. To be eligible for Mounjaro on the NHS for weight loss, you need a BMI of 40 or over, or 37.5 or over if you are from a South Asian, Chinese, other Asian, Middle Eastern, Black African, or African-Caribbean ethnic background, and have at least four of the following five health conditions: diagnosed hypertension, obstructive sleep apnoea, type 2 diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disease, or dyslipidaemia (high cholesterol/fat levels). Surely it’s best not to allow a significant proportion of the population eventually reach the current criteria and become more of a burden on the NHS than providing the drug as a prophylactic and help keep the number of individuals becoming morbidly obese along with the associated health problems down. A false economy?

You have to have a cutoff point though.

In the long run I’d suggest that preventing people from becoming morbidly obese and having to seek interventions for diabetes, heart conditions, hypertension, mobility issues, raised blood cholesterol is a better option. Cheaper to provide Mounjaro or similar than the alternative. Cut off point for what exactly ? 

There needs to be a criteria, apologies for using the wrong word, Or do you think just anyone who wants to try Mounjaro etc should be able to ? 

What would your criteria be out of interest? 

I think you’re correct in that it shouldn’t be available for just anyone who want to drop a bit of weight but I think the current criteria are too restrictive. One of the biggest drains on The NHS is through having to treat conditions that are preventable. Obesity requires ongoing medical intervention for many many people. There is generally considered to be three levels of obesity. Stage 1 is a BMI over 30, stage 2 30 - 34.9 and Stage 3 is severe or Morbidly Obese at BMI 35 - 40+. That’s the point at which The NHS will intervene with Mounjaro provided you have other listed conditions as well. In my opinion that’s too late. We’re allowing people to reach a BMI of 40+ where we can expect other health and social issues to manifest. To get classified as Morbidly Obese you must pass through stage 1 & 2. Surely that’s the time to intervene, not when it’s already a massive problem with associated health issues. If I was being cynical I might think that the expense of Mounjaro being prescribed on The NHS is considered to be better spent elsewhere in the system. Short sighted because those people being ignored will eventually have a far greater impact on health services by being excluded from a proven prophylactic treatment.

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

If we become too reliant on 'fat' jabs then we're basically giving up on health prevention strategies around healthy eating. We need to be more focused on improving diet and exercise.

People do have some degree of choice over what they eat and whether or not they exercise. There are plenty of parents out there who make bad food choices for their kids and set them up for an unhealthy life - some of this is down to laziness.

I hear you but if only it was as simple as that. Eating disorders are not a lifestyle choice. Yes, in Theory everyone could eat healthily and watch their calorific intake and exercise more but that’s not ever going to happen or even realistic. Most eating disorders are related to mental health issues and not laziness. 

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

If we become too reliant on 'fat' jabs then we're basically giving up on health prevention strategies around healthy eating. We need to be more focused on improving diet and exercise.

People do have some degree of choice over what they eat and whether or not they exercise. There are plenty of parents out there who make bad food choices for their kids and set them up for an unhealthy life - some of this is down to laziness.

I hear you but if only it was as simple as that. Eating disorders are not a lifestyle choice. Yes, in Theory everyone could eat healthily and watch their calorific intake and exercise more but that’s not ever going to happen or even realistic. Most eating disorders are related to mental health issues and not laziness. 

Too simple to label everyone as having an eating disorder- some do but in some cases it's down to laziness. We attribute far too much to mental health rather than personal choice. 

Not according to the medical profession we don’t. Obesity stems from a multifactorial combination of genetic, environmental, societal, and behavioral factors.

From Chat GTP

How Obesity Is Currently Viewed in Medicine

1. 

As a Chronic Disease

• Major health organizations (e.g., World Health Organization, American Medical Association, NICE in the UK) define obesity as a chronic, relapsing disease, not just a lifestyle issue.
• It’s recognised as the result of complex interactions: genetics, hormones, brain signaling, environment, psychology, and lifestyle.
• Like high blood pressure or diabetes, it often requires long-term management, not just short-term dieting.

2. 

A Risk Factor for Other Conditions

Obesity increases the risk of:

• Type 2 diabetes
• Cardiovascular disease (heart attack, stroke, hypertension)
• Certain cancers (e.g., breast, colon, endometrial)
• Sleep apnea
• Joint and mobility problems
• Mental health conditions (depression, anxiety, stigma-related distress)

Doctors view it as both a disease in itself and a driver of other diseases.

3. 

A Condition Often Stigmatized

• Unfortunately, weight stigma is still common in healthcare. Some patients feel judged or dismissed, which can discourage them from seeking care.
• Increasingly, the medical profession is being encouraged to treat obesity without blame, focusing on health outcomes rather than appearance.

4. 

Treatment Approaches

Lifestyle interventions: Nutrition, physical activity, behavioral therapy.

• Medications: GLP-1 receptor agonists (like semaglutide/Wegovy, tirzepatide/Mounjaro), bupropion/naltrexone, orlistat, etc.
• Surgery: Bariatric surgery for severe cases (BMI ≥40, or ≥35 with comorbidities).
• Long-term support: Because relapse is common, obesity treatment is viewed as ongoing, not a “one-time fix.”

5. 

Individualized Care

• Medicine now emphasizes that not every person with obesity is automatically unhealthy, and treatment should focus on:
  
• Improving metabolic health (blood sugar, blood pressure, cholesterol)
• Enhancing quality of life and mobility
• Reducing complications, not just weight loss for its own sake.
• 
  

In summary: The medical profession now recognises obesity as a chronic, multifactorial disease requiring respectful, long-term management. The old view of it being purely a matter of “willpower” is being replaced with a more compassionate, scientific approach.

Would you like me to also explain why some doctors call obesity a “relapsing disease” — and what that means in real-world treatment

Stu_of_Kunming said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

If we become too reliant on 'fat' jabs then we're basically giving up on health prevention strategies around healthy eating. We need to be more focused on improving diet and exercise.

People do have some degree of choice over what they eat and whether or not they exercise. There are plenty of parents out there who make bad food choices for their kids and set them up for an unhealthy life - some of this is down to laziness.

I hear you but if only it was as simple as that. Eating disorders are not a lifestyle choice. Yes, in Theory everyone could eat healthily and watch their calorific intake and exercise more but that’s not ever going to happen or even realistic. Most eating disorders are related to mental health issues and not laziness. 

Too simple to label everyone as having an eating disorder- some do but in some cases it's down to laziness. We attribute far too much to mental health rather than personal choice. 

Not according to the medical profession we don’t. Obesity stems from a multifactorial combination of genetic, environmental, societal, and behavioral factors

The medical profession that will profit massively from drugs based solutions rather than societal lifestyle changes and proper education about nutrition and cooking, hardly surprising. 

Rubbish. The drug companies will benefit but how on earth you see that also affecting medics is certainly in the UK a non argument.

ShootersHillGuru said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

If we become too reliant on 'fat' jabs then we're basically giving up on health prevention strategies around healthy eating. We need to be more focused on improving diet and exercise.

People do have some degree of choice over what they eat and whether or not they exercise. There are plenty of parents out there who make bad food choices for their kids and set them up for an unhealthy life - some of this is down to laziness.

I hear you but if only it was as simple as that. Eating disorders are not a lifestyle choice. Yes, in Theory everyone could eat healthily and watch their calorific intake and exercise more but that’s not ever going to happen or even realistic. Most eating disorders are related to mental health issues and not laziness. 

Too simple to label everyone as having an eating disorder- some do but in some cases it's down to laziness. We attribute far too much to mental health rather than personal choice. 

Not according to the medical profession we don’t. Obesity stems from a multifactorial combination of genetic, environmental, societal, and behavioral factors

The medical profession that will profit massively from drugs based solutions rather than societal lifestyle changes and proper education about nutrition and cooking, hardly surprising. 

Rubbish. The drug companies will benefit but how on earth you see that also affecting medics is certainly in the UK a non argument.

Have you heard of OxyCotton? Have a read a read about  The Sackler Family, it will quite clearly show how doctors, charities and advisory groups can all be manipulated in the name of money, if you think what happens elsewhere (mostly America) doesn’t impact the UK and the rest of the world, you’re loopy. 

Stu_of_Kunming said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

If we become too reliant on 'fat' jabs then we're basically giving up on health prevention strategies around healthy eating. We need to be more focused on improving diet and exercise.

People do have some degree of choice over what they eat and whether or not they exercise. There are plenty of parents out there who make bad food choices for their kids and set them up for an unhealthy life - some of this is down to laziness.

I hear you but if only it was as simple as that. Eating disorders are not a lifestyle choice. Yes, in Theory everyone could eat healthily and watch their calorific intake and exercise more but that’s not ever going to happen or even realistic. Most eating disorders are related to mental health issues and not laziness. 

Too simple to label everyone as having an eating disorder- some do but in some cases it's down to laziness. We attribute far too much to mental health rather than personal choice. 

Not according to the medical profession we don’t. Obesity stems from a multifactorial combination of genetic, environmental, societal, and behavioral factors

The medical profession that will profit massively from drugs based solutions rather than societal lifestyle changes and proper education about nutrition and cooking, hardly surprising. 

Rubbish. The drug companies will benefit but how on earth you see that also affecting medics is certainly in the UK a non argument.

Have you heard of OxyCotton? Have a read a read about  The Sackler Family, it will quite clearly show how doctors, charities and advisory groups can all be manipulated in the name of money, if you think what happens elsewhere (mostly America) doesn’t impact the UK and the rest of the world, you’re loopy. 

I think your view of how doctors are allowed to prescribe is 20 years out of date as far as the UK is concerned. Presumably you mean OxyContin ?