Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic vs West Bromwich Albion - Tuesday 4th November 2025 - 7:45pm
Comments
-
NJ is doing brilliantly but how on earth he nominated docherty to take penalties is a mystery - Carey, Leaburn, Bree and Gillesphey have all proven they can strike a ball cleanly with power and pace - i said to my son before he took it, i just couldn't see him scoring - the only way he scores with that shot is if the keeper goes the wrong way. I've hit penalties like that and wouldn't again. I've also blasted them over - its nothing to do with bottle, its about people who know how to hit a ball. Carey would have struck it so it didn't matter where the keeper dived.
The performance - as i expected - not pretty but the formula works and really pleased with the subs made and the improvement thereafter. Fullah provided much needed 'fizz' and WBA backed off and we regained control and there was a belief again - the crowd sensed it as well. Felt like we were going through the motions before that, waiting for the cavalry and our superb defence were holding the fort.
Fullah is a massive bonus and i believe central midfield is his position - couldn't be better. Doc's done well but we need options there4 -
Hate to say it but there was nobody around me with confidence he was going to tuck it away. My boy was screaming for Carey to take it.DOUCHER said:NJ is doing brilliantly but how on earth he nominated docherty to take penalties is a mystery - Carey, Leaburn, Bree and Gillesphey have all proven they can strike a ball cleanly with power and pace - i said to my son before he took it, i just couldn't see him scoring - the only way he scores with that shot is if the keeper goes the wrong way. I've hit penalties like that and wouldn't again. I've also blasted them over - its nothing to do with bottle, its about people who know how to hit a ball. Carey would have struck it so it didn't matter where the keeper dived.
The performance - as i expected - not pretty but the formula works and really pleased with the subs made and the improvement thereafter. Fullah provided much needed 'fizz' and WBA backed off and we regained control and there was a belief again - the crowd sensed it as well. Felt like we were going through the motions before that, waiting for the cavalry and our superb defence were holding the fort.
Fullah is a massive bonus and i believe central midfield is his position - couldn't be better. Doc's done well but we need options there0 -
The spirit and fight that NJ has instilled in the core from last season and and the additions in this one continue to impress me - particularly since that fateful game last season against Crawley at home. They just don't give up and Carey is simply the epitome of that. Never stops, keeps going and adds the quality when we need it most. Plenty of others like LJones and Coventry that also consistently do the same.
The first half was pretty turgid and felt like, both positionally and tactically, we weren't clicking. Is it a concern based upon results, performances and our points total? Absolutely not. Tonight was another perfect example of Jonesball, where we always aim to give very little away and keep things tight. When we keep it tight (and to use a Jones-ism), we give ourselves a chance. The penalty was not a good one, and it's easy to criticise - I always think your strikers need to be in a mindset in as much as they want to take them. Leaburn as a minimum should be taking those, imho. TC is also completely capable. I appreciate they are young, but you want your strikers on those. Plenty of better players have taken worse pens, but Doc shouldn't be on them. Technically, I think his shooting is one of his weaker aspects and, even being skipper, it shouldn't be on him. If Godden is there, it's a non-issue - something to fix.
Fullah was an absolute delight to watch and the tactical changes to support him being free to play in his role of choice changed the game. Unleashing ourselves from the rigidity that the combination of Coventry and Doc to just Coventry meant the more agile combination of Carey/Knibbs/Fullah could all be more creative. NJ knows best, but I do wonder what we could do if we didn't always start with Coventry/Doc together and had the more dynamic midfielders starting. Net result may well be a looser defense, potentially less 0-0s at half-time. I do think Fullah's cameo will put the pressure on the others - his pace and invention was just something different.
As others have said, I'm still watching the points tick over to 50 and safety first, but like on so many showings, we're not getting overawed with this league.9 -
PragueAddick said:So this thing about selling our own players, which this week is LJ and Fullah, and I'm surprised it hasn't included Carey, it usually has. I realised it's unfair of me to call it bed-wetting as I was last night, when I was doing a fair bit of that about Alfie May; albeit that was more because I wasn't smart enough football wise to see what NJ wants in that role.
But if we seriously think that we deserve to be where we are, and that we are on a path back to where we ought to be (as NJ and the board keep saying) then we've got to stop thinking small -time. Yes the biggest clubs hoover up young talent, or in LJs case mature talent. But it's not a given, it's case by case, according to the club's finances, whether the owners are investing, whether they invest smart (two different things), and how productive the academy is.
So to try and bring some rational evidence to my argument I spent a long time struggling with AI to get an accurate list of the Sunderland ins/outs from the time they returned to the Champ in 22-23, to last season when they got back to the FAPL. And by the time they got out of League One, they were not a parachute club. Yes they had rich new owners, but Ellis Short was rich too and plowed millions into them which he wrote off on quitting (£170m)
Sunderland in the Champ this time round definitely did not sell either their best players or talented youngsters in order to fund a squad to get them promoted back to the FAPL. On the contrary they bought talented youngsters (it looks like their academy has not produced much in this time). The most obvious example is Jobe Bellingham but there are several others aged around 19-21 whom they bought, often from European clubs. They've sold Bellingham now, but from a position of strength (and an ROI of 200%).
We are in a position now where we need only sell if NJ is happy to sell, and has an available replacement lined up. Sure if some club is idiotic enough to offer £7m for a 30 year old centre-back who has never been above this level, we can "consider" it. For about 10 seconds. And then we can politely invite that club's representatives to enjoy some sex and travel.
Fullah is a different case but if Sunderland with no parachute money, can bring in and hold young players in the Championship, why can't we? Sure they're a "big" club. But we beat them at Wembley in 2019, and usually found them one of the softer opponents in the FAPL years. They are not that big. So more politely, I repeat, let's us fans all grow a backbone. It's no more than NJ and the board deserve to see.
It's not the fans who decide when to sell a player.2 -
Carey dropping back alongside Coventry with knibbs further forward really seemed to work well.Carey is what we need in there, someone who turns and gets them on the back foot. He can defend well too so has the all round game for it. Doc has done a great job as a disruptor but he’s very limited on the ball, I would like to see him on the bench for a few games (certainly at home when we should be going at teams more). That would suit knibbs better who would relish arriving late into the box as he did so well at Reading.
Last 2 games I thought Bree was very average.We were turd for 60 minutes and couldn’t even pass properly, but that last 30 showed me I think we have the right personnel to improve on our already decent start to the season. Lastly - Fullah is bloody exciting isn’t he!8 -
Can we enjoy more than 10 minutes of Ibby Fullah before we start talking about losing him in January12
-
23 points already wow . Had an image in my head this morning that godden will score the winner at coventry in a few weeks1
-
This season NJ has said often enough in post match interviews (and again last night) that the team is set up this way to get results now - but that as we establish ourselves, he'll be looking to play a more creative footballing gameplan.Covered_End_Lad said:The big lump forward 62 times a game with it sticking once in a blue moon is fairly tiresome to watch, but loved that last minute winner and we can't complain too much with our start to the season overall.
I do hope we see a little more of the attacking play we saw second half against Ipswich soon.
My take: The team is still a work in progress, will evolve and there's more to come.
Exciting times!
10 -
Ezri Konsa at The Valley last night29 -
ShootersHillGuru said:
...... As for Fullah, he’s probably only another ten appearances away from alerting probably every Premier League club. He’s no doubt already on the radar of some. The reality is also that yes our owners can stay firm and I’d like to think they will but just like everything else in life money talks. It’s not just CAFC holding firm it’s whether or not the boy has his head turned. He wouldn’t be the first. We all know he could probably increase his salary x 10. Would it benefit his playing development ? Probably not but again he wouldn’t be the first to ignore such advice. It’s not really about growing a backbone but more about accepting Charltons place in the pyramid. I’m optimistic that both will start next season with us but we also need to be realists.PragueAddick said:So this thing about selling our own players, which this week is LJ and Fullah, and I'm surprised it hasn't included Carey, it usually has. I realised it's unfair of me to call it bed-wetting as I was last night, when I was doing a fair bit of that about Alfie May; albeit that was more because I wasn't smart enough football wise to see what NJ wants in that role.
But if we seriously think that we deserve to be where we are, and that we are on a path back to where we ought to be (as NJ and the board keep saying) then we've got to stop thinking small -time. Yes the biggest clubs hoover up young talent, or in LJs case mature talent. But it's not a given, it's case by case, according to the club's finances, whether the owners are investing, whether they invest smart (two different things), and how productive the academy is.
So to try and bring some rational evidence to my argument I spent a long time struggling with AI to get an accurate list of the Sunderland ins/outs from the time they returned to the Champ in 22-23, to last season when they got back to the FAPL. And by the time they got out of League One, they were not a parachute club. Yes they had rich new owners, but Ellis Short was rich too and plowed millions into them which he wrote off on quitting (£170m)
Sunderland in the Champ this time round definitely did not sell either their best players or talented youngsters in order to fund a squad to get them promoted back to the FAPL. On the contrary they bought talented youngsters (it looks like their academy has not produced much in this time). The most obvious example is Jobe Bellingham but there are several others aged around 19-21 whom they bought, often from European clubs. They've sold Bellingham now, but from a position of strength (and an ROI of 200%).
We are in a position now where we need only sell if NJ is happy to sell, and has an available replacement lined up. Sure if some club is idiotic enough to offer £7m for a 30 year old centre-back who has never been above this level, we can "consider" it. For about 10 seconds. And then we can politely invite that club's representatives to enjoy some sex and travel.
Fullah is a different case but if Sunderland with no parachute money, can bring in and hold young players in the Championship, why can't we? Sure they're a "big" club. But we beat them at Wembley in 2019, and usually found them one of the softer opponents in the FAPL years. They are not that big. So more politely, I repeat, let's us fans all grow a backbone. It's no more than NJ and the board deserve to see.
Fullah is just 18 years old and a very exciting prospect - but from a footballing point of view, it would be crazy for him to sign for a Prem team hoovering up talent, spending 3 years in their U21s, and then finally going on loan to a Championship side.
Despite the lure of big money, staying at Charlton and establishing himself could be a much quicker route to the Prem.6 -
Sponsored links:
-
Come on now, it was a bad penalty but Docherty definitely knows how to strike a ball. You just have to look at his goals against Bolton, Northampton and the one he hit against Huddersfield. He strikes the ball very well and he took a very good penalty in preseason, he just hit a bad one yesterday. Nominating our right back who has scored 6 career goals in 300-odd appearances as a better option shows just how silly we're getting with this.DOUCHER said:NJ is doing brilliantly but how on earth he nominated docherty to take penalties is a mystery - Carey, Leaburn, Bree and Gillesphey have all proven they can strike a ball cleanly with power and pace - i said to my son before he took it, i just couldn't see him scoring - the only way he scores with that shot is if the keeper goes the wrong way. I've hit penalties like that and wouldn't again. I've also blasted them over - its nothing to do with bottle, its about people who know how to hit a ball. Carey would have struck it so it didn't matter where the keeper dived.
The performance - as i expected - not pretty but the formula works and really pleased with the subs made and the improvement thereafter. Fullah provided much needed 'fizz' and WBA backed off and we regained control and there was a belief again - the crowd sensed it as well. Felt like we were going through the motions before that, waiting for the cavalry and our superb defence were holding the fort.
Fullah is a massive bonus and i believe central midfield is his position - couldn't be better. Doc's done well but we need options there5 -
I 100% agree with this. 100%. However. In that three year period he could find himself £1.5 million possibly more, better off. That’s a god almighty decision should it ever come to it. That’s how the modern game works.Oggy Red said:ShootersHillGuru said:
...... As for Fullah, he’s probably only another ten appearances away from alerting probably every Premier League club. He’s no doubt already on the radar of some. The reality is also that yes our owners can stay firm and I’d like to think they will but just like everything else in life money talks. It’s not just CAFC holding firm it’s whether or not the boy has his head turned. He wouldn’t be the first. We all know he could probably increase his salary x 10. Would it benefit his playing development ? Probably not but again he wouldn’t be the first to ignore such advice. It’s not really about growing a backbone but more about accepting Charltons place in the pyramid. I’m optimistic that both will start next season with us but we also need to be realists.PragueAddick said:So this thing about selling our own players, which this week is LJ and Fullah, and I'm surprised it hasn't included Carey, it usually has. I realised it's unfair of me to call it bed-wetting as I was last night, when I was doing a fair bit of that about Alfie May; albeit that was more because I wasn't smart enough football wise to see what NJ wants in that role.
But if we seriously think that we deserve to be where we are, and that we are on a path back to where we ought to be (as NJ and the board keep saying) then we've got to stop thinking small -time. Yes the biggest clubs hoover up young talent, or in LJs case mature talent. But it's not a given, it's case by case, according to the club's finances, whether the owners are investing, whether they invest smart (two different things), and how productive the academy is.
So to try and bring some rational evidence to my argument I spent a long time struggling with AI to get an accurate list of the Sunderland ins/outs from the time they returned to the Champ in 22-23, to last season when they got back to the FAPL. And by the time they got out of League One, they were not a parachute club. Yes they had rich new owners, but Ellis Short was rich too and plowed millions into them which he wrote off on quitting (£170m)
Sunderland in the Champ this time round definitely did not sell either their best players or talented youngsters in order to fund a squad to get them promoted back to the FAPL. On the contrary they bought talented youngsters (it looks like their academy has not produced much in this time). The most obvious example is Jobe Bellingham but there are several others aged around 19-21 whom they bought, often from European clubs. They've sold Bellingham now, but from a position of strength (and an ROI of 200%).
We are in a position now where we need only sell if NJ is happy to sell, and has an available replacement lined up. Sure if some club is idiotic enough to offer £7m for a 30 year old centre-back who has never been above this level, we can "consider" it. For about 10 seconds. And then we can politely invite that club's representatives to enjoy some sex and travel.
Fullah is a different case but if Sunderland with no parachute money, can bring in and hold young players in the Championship, why can't we? Sure they're a "big" club. But we beat them at Wembley in 2019, and usually found them one of the softer opponents in the FAPL years. They are not that big. So more politely, I repeat, let's us fans all grow a backbone. It's no more than NJ and the board deserve to see.
Fullah is just 18 years old and a very exciting prospect - but from a footballing point of view, it would be crazy for him to sign for a Prem team hoovering up talent, spending 3 years in their U21s, and then finally going on loan to a Championship side.
Despite the lure of big money, staying at Charlton and establishing himself could be a much quicker route to the Prem.1 -
I'm just as afraid that you could be right, Shooters.ShootersHillGuru said:
I 100% agree with this. 100%. However. In that three year period he could find himself £1.5 million possibly more, better off. That’s a god almighty decision should it ever come to it. That’s how the modern game works.Oggy Red said:ShootersHillGuru said:
...... As for Fullah, he’s probably only another ten appearances away from alerting probably every Premier League club. He’s no doubt already on the radar of some. The reality is also that yes our owners can stay firm and I’d like to think they will but just like everything else in life money talks. It’s not just CAFC holding firm it’s whether or not the boy has his head turned. He wouldn’t be the first. We all know he could probably increase his salary x 10. Would it benefit his playing development ? Probably not but again he wouldn’t be the first to ignore such advice. It’s not really about growing a backbone but more about accepting Charltons place in the pyramid. I’m optimistic that both will start next season with us but we also need to be realists.PragueAddick said:So this thing about selling our own players, which this week is LJ and Fullah, and I'm surprised it hasn't included Carey, it usually has. I realised it's unfair of me to call it bed-wetting as I was last night, when I was doing a fair bit of that about Alfie May; albeit that was more because I wasn't smart enough football wise to see what NJ wants in that role.
But if we seriously think that we deserve to be where we are, and that we are on a path back to where we ought to be (as NJ and the board keep saying) then we've got to stop thinking small -time. Yes the biggest clubs hoover up young talent, or in LJs case mature talent. But it's not a given, it's case by case, according to the club's finances, whether the owners are investing, whether they invest smart (two different things), and how productive the academy is.
So to try and bring some rational evidence to my argument I spent a long time struggling with AI to get an accurate list of the Sunderland ins/outs from the time they returned to the Champ in 22-23, to last season when they got back to the FAPL. And by the time they got out of League One, they were not a parachute club. Yes they had rich new owners, but Ellis Short was rich too and plowed millions into them which he wrote off on quitting (£170m)
Sunderland in the Champ this time round definitely did not sell either their best players or talented youngsters in order to fund a squad to get them promoted back to the FAPL. On the contrary they bought talented youngsters (it looks like their academy has not produced much in this time). The most obvious example is Jobe Bellingham but there are several others aged around 19-21 whom they bought, often from European clubs. They've sold Bellingham now, but from a position of strength (and an ROI of 200%).
We are in a position now where we need only sell if NJ is happy to sell, and has an available replacement lined up. Sure if some club is idiotic enough to offer £7m for a 30 year old centre-back who has never been above this level, we can "consider" it. For about 10 seconds. And then we can politely invite that club's representatives to enjoy some sex and travel.
Fullah is a different case but if Sunderland with no parachute money, can bring in and hold young players in the Championship, why can't we? Sure they're a "big" club. But we beat them at Wembley in 2019, and usually found them one of the softer opponents in the FAPL years. They are not that big. So more politely, I repeat, let's us fans all grow a backbone. It's no more than NJ and the board deserve to see.
Fullah is just 18 years old and a very exciting prospect - but from a footballing point of view, it would be crazy for him to sign for a Prem team hoovering up talent, spending 3 years in their U21s, and then finally going on loan to a Championship side.
Despite the lure of big money, staying at Charlton and establishing himself could be a much quicker route to the Prem.
That's why I sad "from a footballing point of view".
No guarantees of success in football - and as we all know, any footballer could be just one bad injury from premature retirement.
As you say, the kid may be quids in by joining a Prem team soon - but let's hope Fullah gets sensible advice to stay for now in a friendly and supportive environment.
2 -
Anyway, after we beat Millwall at Wembley in the play off final, Fullah will be playing in the Prem with Charlton next season 😁4
-
Just one thing………..Oggy Red said:Anyway, after we beat Millwall at Wembley in the play off final, Fullah will be playing in the Prem with Charlton next season 😁2 -
.0
-
Yes, Bed Wetting is unfair. A far better description would be Classical Conditioning. It is, after all, exactly the same process that that saw Pavlov's dogs drooling at the sound of a bell. For years on end we've been conditioned to expect that every time we get a decent player, they are sold. In many cases, before we've seen them play more than a handful of games. Charlton fans see a young talented player in their team and the conditioned response is to be fearful (or at least, resigned to the fact) that they will be sold pretty quickly.PragueAddick said:So this thing about selling our own players, which this week is LJ and Fullah, and I'm surprised it hasn't included Carey, it usually has. I realised it's unfair of me to call it bed-wetting as I was last night, when I was doing a fair bit of that about Alfie May; albeit that was more because I wasn't smart enough football wise to see what NJ wants in that role...
Hopefully, now we have a board that is not corrupt, incompetent or broke that will change and we can look forward to seeing the club's talents for, at least, a little longer than we might have in the past. The conditioned links should start to gradually break if the pattern of conditioning is broken, but it won't happen before that. In exactly the same way that we wouldn't blame or judge Pavlov's dogs for drooling, we shouldn't be harsh on Charlton fans who fear the worst. Blame the experimenters, not the subjects of the experiment.4 -
Went yo work at the Excel this morning humming the Carey song. What a great night that was!! Guy on my right said it was daylight robbery and I'd disagree with that. But the margins are very fine in this league. The Baggies had a couple of good chances and fluffed them. Another night, who knows. But last night we really turned the screw around little in tge last 15, and a last minute winner looked possible, albeit from a horrible Bree corner. Hugely grateful to be there, and loving the Jones army as we March on.3
-
Last 15 minutes we made attacking substitutes and they made defensive ones. Could've gone wrong with a young lad coming on for his Championship debut and moving TC to LWB but I thought they worked really well together and Fullah changed the game. That's what wins you games of football. The bravery Jones shows late on in games is a real testament to why we're performing so well. Haven't lost our press from last season and we push on to win games/score more goals. Late winners against Watford, Sheffield United and West Brom. 3 goals in 15 minutes at Ipswich. Played Blackburn off the park. Yes it can go wrong but we're miles better than I expected us to be this season and already only about 24/25 points off survival. Got to be an argument there that Jones is doing the best job in the EFL6
-
Just that Jones is a devout Christian and I doubt he would enjoy the comparison with JC? On the other hand he probably wouldn't be deeply offended either?robroy said:
I assume you mean, he would not agree with it as I have used JC rather than God himself?CharltonManor1966 said:
I meant Jones!Stig said:
Yeah, but he's been dead for two thousand years 😉CharltonManor1966 said:
Brilliant! But I don't think he would agree with it!robroy said:
Made a small change0 -
Sponsored links:
-
6 -
Good post, and I hope you are right, and that this window starts to break the links with the past in some people’s heads. Although if people can imagine Fullah being sold this window and only shrugging and calling it “a shame” i wonder if they actually want an ambitious successful club.Stig said:
Yes, Bed Wetting is unfair. A far better description would be Classical Conditioning. It is, after all, exactly the same process that that saw Pavlov's dogs drooling at the sound of a bell. For years on end we've been conditioned to expect that every time we get a decent player, they are sold. In many cases, before we've seen them play more than a handful of games. Charlton fans see a young talented player in their team and the conditioned response is to be fearful (or at least, resigned to the fact) that they will be sold pretty quickly.PragueAddick said:So this thing about selling our own players, which this week is LJ and Fullah, and I'm surprised it hasn't included Carey, it usually has. I realised it's unfair of me to call it bed-wetting as I was last night, when I was doing a fair bit of that about Alfie May; albeit that was more because I wasn't smart enough football wise to see what NJ wants in that role...
Hopefully, now we have a board that is not corrupt, incompetent or broke that will change and we can look forward to seeing the club's talents for, at least, a little longer than we might have in the past. The conditioned links should start to gradually break if the pattern of conditioning is broken, but it won't happen before that. In exactly the same way that we wouldn't blame or judge Pavlov's dogs for drooling, we shouldn't be harsh on Charlton fans who fear the worst. Blame the experimenters, not the subjects of the experiment.0 -
Will catch up with the thread now, excited
Vlog is up:
https://youtu.be/mNjLDQodT48?si=hQUrXhzQKM25aELz 6 -
Very much deviated a post-match thread here but i think there needs to be a reality in all this.PragueAddick said:
Good post, and I hope you are right, and that this window starts to break the links with the past in some people’s heads. Although if people can imagine Fullah being sold this window and only shrugging and calling it “a shame” i wonder if they actually want an ambitious successful club.Stig said:
Yes, Bed Wetting is unfair. A far better description would be Classical Conditioning. It is, after all, exactly the same process that that saw Pavlov's dogs drooling at the sound of a bell. For years on end we've been conditioned to expect that every time we get a decent player, they are sold. In many cases, before we've seen them play more than a handful of games. Charlton fans see a young talented player in their team and the conditioned response is to be fearful (or at least, resigned to the fact) that they will be sold pretty quickly.PragueAddick said:So this thing about selling our own players, which this week is LJ and Fullah, and I'm surprised it hasn't included Carey, it usually has. I realised it's unfair of me to call it bed-wetting as I was last night, when I was doing a fair bit of that about Alfie May; albeit that was more because I wasn't smart enough football wise to see what NJ wants in that role...
Hopefully, now we have a board that is not corrupt, incompetent or broke that will change and we can look forward to seeing the club's talents for, at least, a little longer than we might have in the past. The conditioned links should start to gradually break if the pattern of conditioning is broken, but it won't happen before that. In exactly the same way that we wouldn't blame or judge Pavlov's dogs for drooling, we shouldn't be harsh on Charlton fans who fear the worst. Blame the experimenters, not the subjects of the experiment.Championship clubs sell players. Normally their best ones.
Brentford developed a model based off selling players that has delivered them to the top division and has continued to see them overperform.
Closer to home, Millwall are in their strongest position as a squad for decades and they’ve achieved this by selling their best 3 players in the last 18 months for £25m+. It’s a financial graveyard league with non-parachute money and those sales have led to them building a quality squad with depth.Selling players is something we just need to accept. When it’s done and at what value it’s done at are the two key things. Historically it’s been too early or too cheap, but I’ve not seen any evidence yet from this ownership that that’s going to be a factor.10 -
says who ?Macronate said:We won’t get away with performances like that in the Premier League.0 -
Exactly. It's not selling players and pocketing the money, it's reinvesting it to improve the squad.AFKABartram said:
Very much deviated a post-match thread here but i think there needs to be a reality in all this.PragueAddick said:
Good post, and I hope you are right, and that this window starts to break the links with the past in some people’s heads. Although if people can imagine Fullah being sold this window and only shrugging and calling it “a shame” i wonder if they actually want an ambitious successful club.Stig said:
Yes, Bed Wetting is unfair. A far better description would be Classical Conditioning. It is, after all, exactly the same process that that saw Pavlov's dogs drooling at the sound of a bell. For years on end we've been conditioned to expect that every time we get a decent player, they are sold. In many cases, before we've seen them play more than a handful of games. Charlton fans see a young talented player in their team and the conditioned response is to be fearful (or at least, resigned to the fact) that they will be sold pretty quickly.PragueAddick said:So this thing about selling our own players, which this week is LJ and Fullah, and I'm surprised it hasn't included Carey, it usually has. I realised it's unfair of me to call it bed-wetting as I was last night, when I was doing a fair bit of that about Alfie May; albeit that was more because I wasn't smart enough football wise to see what NJ wants in that role...
Hopefully, now we have a board that is not corrupt, incompetent or broke that will change and we can look forward to seeing the club's talents for, at least, a little longer than we might have in the past. The conditioned links should start to gradually break if the pattern of conditioning is broken, but it won't happen before that. In exactly the same way that we wouldn't blame or judge Pavlov's dogs for drooling, we shouldn't be harsh on Charlton fans who fear the worst. Blame the experimenters, not the subjects of the experiment.Championship clubs sell players. Normally their best ones.
Brentford developed a model based off selling players that has delivered them to the top division and has continued to see them overperform.
Closer to home, Millwall are in their strongest position as a squad for decades and they’ve achieved this by selling their best 3 players in the last 18 months for £25m+. It’s a financial graveyard league with non-parachute money and those sales have led to them building a quality squad with depth.Selling players is something we just need to accept. When it’s done and at what value it’s done at are the two key things. Historically it’s been too early or too cheap, but I’ve not seen any evidence yet from this ownership that that’s going to be a factor.
The sale of Rob Elliott helped finance the Powell title side.1 -
Carl Jenkinson, not Rob Elliottkillerandflash said:
Exactly. It's not selling players and pocketing the money, it's reinvesting it to improve the squad.AFKABartram said:
Very much deviated a post-match thread here but i think there needs to be a reality in all this.PragueAddick said:
Good post, and I hope you are right, and that this window starts to break the links with the past in some people’s heads. Although if people can imagine Fullah being sold this window and only shrugging and calling it “a shame” i wonder if they actually want an ambitious successful club.Stig said:
Yes, Bed Wetting is unfair. A far better description would be Classical Conditioning. It is, after all, exactly the same process that that saw Pavlov's dogs drooling at the sound of a bell. For years on end we've been conditioned to expect that every time we get a decent player, they are sold. In many cases, before we've seen them play more than a handful of games. Charlton fans see a young talented player in their team and the conditioned response is to be fearful (or at least, resigned to the fact) that they will be sold pretty quickly.PragueAddick said:So this thing about selling our own players, which this week is LJ and Fullah, and I'm surprised it hasn't included Carey, it usually has. I realised it's unfair of me to call it bed-wetting as I was last night, when I was doing a fair bit of that about Alfie May; albeit that was more because I wasn't smart enough football wise to see what NJ wants in that role...
Hopefully, now we have a board that is not corrupt, incompetent or broke that will change and we can look forward to seeing the club's talents for, at least, a little longer than we might have in the past. The conditioned links should start to gradually break if the pattern of conditioning is broken, but it won't happen before that. In exactly the same way that we wouldn't blame or judge Pavlov's dogs for drooling, we shouldn't be harsh on Charlton fans who fear the worst. Blame the experimenters, not the subjects of the experiment.Championship clubs sell players. Normally their best ones.
Brentford developed a model based off selling players that has delivered them to the top division and has continued to see them overperform.
Closer to home, Millwall are in their strongest position as a squad for decades and they’ve achieved this by selling their best 3 players in the last 18 months for £25m+. It’s a financial graveyard league with non-parachute money and those sales have led to them building a quality squad with depth.Selling players is something we just need to accept. When it’s done and at what value it’s done at are the two key things. Historically it’s been too early or too cheap, but I’ve not seen any evidence yet from this ownership that that’s going to be a factor.
The sale of Rob Elliott helped finance the Powell title side.7 -
Anyone else still got the Sonney Carey song stuck in their head today? Found myself singing it out loud at work.. much to some rather confused faces2
-
@Macronate...😉Lincsaddick said:
says who ?Macronate said:We won’t get away with performances like that in the Premier League.1 -
Naturally, after everything we've been through and only 1 previous Championship season in the last 9 years - many of us still seem to be thinking a 21st place finish will be success.
Nathan Jones evidently doesn't think this way - all season he's been saying "competive", "momentum" "building something", etc.
Maybe time to take a leaf out of NJ's book?
Time to stop looking over our shoulder, fearing the worst?
Time to look up, and enjoy the moment now?
We may not have the division's most talented footballers.
But .... We've got a proper team!
8
