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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic v Oxford Utd: Saturday 20th December 2025: KO 15:00
Comments
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Third choice at Southampton, hence he is here. Journeyman because he has never been 1st choice at any club throughout his career until he came to us.LargeAddick said:
Quite likely yes. And in what world is Bree third choice? He is first choice in the RWB position. And in what way is he a journeyman?Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages8 -
His time may come if he waits long enoughfenlandaddick said:charltonbob said:
Ronnie Moore's not even in the squadmendonca said:
Ronnie Moore’s already said he’s suspended for Norwich, so you can probably work out the real answer!ValleyGary said:Is that Jones suspended for Norwich?
Option at LWB ?
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He was first choice at Luton tooGisappointed said:
Third choice at Southampton, hence he is here. Journeyman because he has never been 1st choice at any club throughout his career until he came to us.LargeAddick said:
Quite likely yes. And in what world is Bree third choice? He is first choice in the RWB position. And in what way is he a journeyman?Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages9 -
Jones is as cute as they come, and he won't make the mistake of being caught short at lwb again, regardless of Josh Edwards fitness. I'd expect us to pay a fee for a first choice player there, bring in another defensive midfield player and possibly a right sided centre back/right back to cover Burke/Ramsey.Southbank said:So here is a puzzle. Say the Leaburn/Kelman partnership works and we play with those two up front. Say Bell/Edwards recover or we buy another proper left wingback. Say Bree signs.
Do either TC or Apter have a starting role in that case? Neither are proper strikers or strong enough to be defensive wingbacks. Are they destined as makeweights to cover injuries? I cannot see a system which has them in their proper role, as wingers.0 -
Careful what you wish for…😂charltonbob said:
Ronnie Moore's not even in the squadmendonca said:
Ronnie Moore’s already said he’s suspended for Norwich, so you can probably work out the real answer!ValleyGary said:Is that Jones suspended for Norwich?3 -
I think Docherty has done well for us this season, but I agree. Anderson is much more mobile and has the pace and energy to get in the opponents faces more. He’s also been okay on the ball. I think there’s a place for Docherty’s experience, but I see him as a more effective option off the bench. For me, Carey Cov and Anderson as the midfield three are the way forward at the moment.Braziliance said:Massive result.
I don't think it was the best advert for championship football for the majority of the game, but we had some great attacking spells and offered a lot more than a very poor Oxford side did.
Love Karoys last two performances, he's a lot better than Docherty and the beauty is, he's a lot younger so can hopefully only improve. Still raw, but so much better than what we were watching before.
Miles best game for us by a mile imo, real complete performance, except for a goal. Held it up well, was everywhere, and really fought the whole game. Felt like he won almost every header.
TC is far, far better coming on as a sub. He looks way more dangerous against tired defenders and I think that is his calling now. Leaburn and Kelman to start as I think they could be something with some time.
Overall a very enjoyable afternoon, beat Norwich and Pompey and we can probably start to imagine ourselves as a Championship side in 26/27Docherty being captain is a slight conundrum, but it’s not like NJ hasn’t been afraid to leave him out before9 -
Send him out on a season long loan to the other site?1
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Free transfer 🙏CharltonManor1966 said:Send him out on a season long loan to the other site?0 -
Southampton who were in the PL last season. He’s a player with over 300 career appearances and mainly played at Championship level.Gisappointed said:
Third choice at Southampton, hence he is here. Journeyman because he has never been 1st choice at any club throughout his career until he came to us.LargeAddick said:
Quite likely yes. And in what world is Bree third choice? He is first choice in the RWB position. And in what way is he a journeyman?Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages
It’ll be exciting if we start bringing in players from abroad, but Fukuda seems to have been hyped up a lot based on very little - it’s not as if he’s a Japanese international. He’d likely need time to settle in to life in England as well as adapting to Championship football.
I’d be concerned about RWB if we go into February with Fukuda and Apter as our main two options. That’s where you need experienced players like Bree so someone like Fukuda could be eased into the team.7 -
Docherty reminds me of Matt Holland in that he's the type of professional that won't moan or try any less because he's a sub. Probably quite easy to leave him out. Do think the captaincy should probably have been given to Jones at the start of the season though.cabbles said:
I think Docherty has done well for us this season, but I agree. Anderson is much more mobile and has the pace and energy to get in the opponents faces more. He’s also been okay on the ball. I think there’s a place for Docherty’s experience, but I see him as a more effective option off the bench. For me, Carey Cov and Anderson as the midfield three are the way forward at the moment.Braziliance said:Massive result.
I don't think it was the best advert for championship football for the majority of the game, but we had some great attacking spells and offered a lot more than a very poor Oxford side did.
Love Karoys last two performances, he's a lot better than Docherty and the beauty is, he's a lot younger so can hopefully only improve. Still raw, but so much better than what we were watching before.
Miles best game for us by a mile imo, real complete performance, except for a goal. Held it up well, was everywhere, and really fought the whole game. Felt like he won almost every header.
TC is far, far better coming on as a sub. He looks way more dangerous against tired defenders and I think that is his calling now. Leaburn and Kelman to start as I think they could be something with some time.
Overall a very enjoyable afternoon, beat Norwich and Pompey and we can probably start to imagine ourselves as a Championship side in 26/27Docherty being captain is a slight conundrum, but it’s not like NJ hasn’t been afraid to leave him out before6 -
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Only having 3 midfielders as ‘first choice’ is dumb, especially with the way we play. Doc brings something extra as Captain and if things are not exactly going your way on the pitch then you definitely need your Captain on the pitch, otherwise Kaminski will have keep being shot by a sniper every 10 minutes so Nathan can talk to the players on the pitch. That we have others like Carey, Coventry and Anderson that we probably all think should be on the pitch as well just shows how well Nathan is building his squad. Luckily in today’s game there are a lot more substitutes allowed…and then there are accumulated bookings, injuries and tiredness to take into account.cabbles said:
I think Docherty has done well for us this season, but I agree. Anderson is much more mobile and has the pace and energy to get in the opponents faces more. He’s also been okay on the ball. I think there’s a place for Docherty’s experience, but I see him as a more effective option off the bench. For me, Carey Cov and Anderson as the midfield three are the way forward at the moment.Braziliance said:Massive result.
I don't think it was the best advert for championship football for the majority of the game, but we had some great attacking spells and offered a lot more than a very poor Oxford side did.
Love Karoys last two performances, he's a lot better than Docherty and the beauty is, he's a lot younger so can hopefully only improve. Still raw, but so much better than what we were watching before.
Miles best game for us by a mile imo, real complete performance, except for a goal. Held it up well, was everywhere, and really fought the whole game. Felt like he won almost every header.
TC is far, far better coming on as a sub. He looks way more dangerous against tired defenders and I think that is his calling now. Leaburn and Kelman to start as I think they could be something with some time.
Overall a very enjoyable afternoon, beat Norwich and Pompey and we can probably start to imagine ourselves as a Championship side in 26/27Docherty being captain is a slight conundrum, but it’s not like NJ hasn’t been afraid to leave him out before0 -
Think people forget how good Docherty was at the start of the season (excluding Watford game). His form has dropped off a bit and Karoy has earned the spot with his performances. But Karoy is still young and is likely to be more inconsistent so I’m sure Docherty will get another chance. We’ve got a lot of games over the next couple of weeks so he will probably get a chance in one of thosecabbles said:
I think Docherty has done well for us this season, but I agree. Anderson is much more mobile and has the pace and energy to get in the opponents faces more. He’s also been okay on the ball. I think there’s a place for Docherty’s experience, but I see him as a more effective option off the bench. For me, Carey Cov and Anderson as the midfield three are the way forward at the moment.Braziliance said:Massive result.
I don't think it was the best advert for championship football for the majority of the game, but we had some great attacking spells and offered a lot more than a very poor Oxford side did.
Love Karoys last two performances, he's a lot better than Docherty and the beauty is, he's a lot younger so can hopefully only improve. Still raw, but so much better than what we were watching before.
Miles best game for us by a mile imo, real complete performance, except for a goal. Held it up well, was everywhere, and really fought the whole game. Felt like he won almost every header.
TC is far, far better coming on as a sub. He looks way more dangerous against tired defenders and I think that is his calling now. Leaburn and Kelman to start as I think they could be something with some time.
Overall a very enjoyable afternoon, beat Norwich and Pompey and we can probably start to imagine ourselves as a Championship side in 26/27Docherty being captain is a slight conundrum, but it’s not like NJ hasn’t been afraid to leave him out before9 -
They would also technically make around 400-500k in saved wages as well so thats technically profit if they have no intention of using him as well. It will likely come down to if Bree is happy to take a wage cut to come hereeastterrace6168 said:Ilovelondontown said:
No your not, although I’m not say bree is 3rd choice but not keen on paying big money/wages for him.Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages
His contract expires in June next year, any fee won't be excessive, and I should think Southampton would do well to take a reasonable offer rather than lose him for free in 6 months...0 -
The ongoing discussions on here about Doc and/or Anderson shows that NJ is now getting options again on players and positions. Tyreece is proving (again) to be extremely effective coming off the bench against tiring defenders and it's fantastic that our big buy of the summer, Kelman, is back and looking to hit the sort of goal scoring form he began at Orient about this time last year.
With four points under our belt from the last two games, we go into the festive phase of the season looking a lot healthier (in body and spirit) than a fortnight ago. The next fortnight is going to be very interesting. Don't think we have ever done great things at Norwich but then we go to our favourite away venue on the south coast followed by a visit from the runaway leaders. Another four points from those games would be nice as would a result at Blackburn before we welcome the World Club Champions.3 -
I’d happily take a point at Portsmouth and Norwich now. Still keeping them at arms distance an extra game down and they would still be no closer to catching us.7
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Is NJ now stumbling onto a winning formula, like last season, through necessity?3
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Didn't think Carey featured that much on Saturday but watching the extended highlights back on Sky he was far more prominent than I gave him credit for. We didn't look quite as bad on the highlights- reasonable number of chances....6
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He had a few moments where it nearly clicked but was also fairly anonymous the rest of the game. Part of that was just how the match played out though, the long balls don't help a player like himhoof_it_up_to_benty said:Didn't think Carey featured that much on Saturday but watching the extended highlights back on Sky he was far more prominent than I gave him credit for. We didn't look quite as bad on the highlights- reasonable number of chances....1 -
I think "stumbling through necessity" is a bit harsh, I think it would be fairer to say that he's tried various combinations and has found one that is working.EugenesAxe said:Is NJ now stumbling onto a winning formula, like last season, through necessity?10 -
Crispywood said:
They would also technically make around 400-500k in saved wages as well so thats technically profit if they have no intention of using him as well. It will likely come down to if Bree is happy to take a wage cut to come hereeastterrace6168 said:Ilovelondontown said:
No your not, although I’m not say bree is 3rd choice but not keen on paying big money/wages for him.Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages
His contract expires in June next year, any fee won't be excessive, and I should think Southampton would do well to take a reasonable offer rather than lose him for free in 6 months...
Bree is currently on 9.6kpw, same as Macca and JRC, whether this is being topped up by Southampton I don't know, so we will see, but hopefully he does sign asap...0 -
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yes you're right, I didn't mean it as a criticism, I was drawing parallels with last season where in trying different ways to work with what he's got he has possibly found a setup that suits the players, TC as an impact sub with Kelman giving him someone to feed in, Leaburn the targetman allowing Carey and Tanto to run off this.thenewbie said:
I think "stumbling through necessity" is a bit harsh, I think it would be fairer to say that he's tried various combinations and has found one that is working.EugenesAxe said:Is NJ now stumbling onto a winning formula, like last season, through necessity?0 -
I see it the other way, I view them as must wins as there are much harder games to come, and we want to push them down further.Crispywood said:I’d happily take a point at Portsmouth and Norwich now. Still keeping them at arms distance an extra game down and they would still be no closer to catching us.
Those teams can only get better really, so we want to deny them as many points as possible while they aren't great now.
I could live with a draw at Norwich and a win at Pompey, but really we need 4 or 6 points. Two of the easiest games we have for the rest of the season on paper, especially Pompey.4 -
Bree is apparently on 15-20k a week at Southampton our highest earner is reportedly Kaminski on 14-15k.eastterrace6168 said:Crispywood said:
They would also technically make around 400-500k in saved wages as well so thats technically profit if they have no intention of using him as well. It will likely come down to if Bree is happy to take a wage cut to come hereeastterrace6168 said:Ilovelondontown said:
No your not, although I’m not say bree is 3rd choice but not keen on paying big money/wages for him.Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages
His contract expires in June next year, any fee won't be excessive, and I should think Southampton would do well to take a reasonable offer rather than lose him for free in 6 months...
Bree is currently on 9.6kpw, same as Macca and JRC, whether this is being topped up by Southampton I don't know, so we will see, but hopefully he does sign asap...0 -
Kelman and Kaminski are both 20kpw...Crispywood said:
Bree is apparently on 15-20k a week at Southampton our highest earner is reportedly Kaminski on 14-15k.eastterrace6168 said:Crispywood said:
They would also technically make around 400-500k in saved wages as well so thats technically profit if they have no intention of using him as well. It will likely come down to if Bree is happy to take a wage cut to come hereeastterrace6168 said:Ilovelondontown said:
No your not, although I’m not say bree is 3rd choice but not keen on paying big money/wages for him.Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages
His contract expires in June next year, any fee won't be excessive, and I should think Southampton would do well to take a reasonable offer rather than lose him for free in 6 months...
Bree is currently on 9.6kpw, same as Macca and JRC, whether this is being topped up by Southampton I don't know, so we will see, but hopefully he does sign asap...0 -
Unless you’ve got access to the club pay roll then you’ve got no idea what they are on, none of us do. No chance either are on 20k a week thougheastterrace6168 said:
Kelman and Kaminsky are both 20kpw...Crispywood said:
Bree is apparently on 15-20k a week at Southampton our highest earner is reportedly Kaminski on 14-15k.eastterrace6168 said:Crispywood said:
They would also technically make around 400-500k in saved wages as well so thats technically profit if they have no intention of using him as well. It will likely come down to if Bree is happy to take a wage cut to come hereeastterrace6168 said:Ilovelondontown said:
No your not, although I’m not say bree is 3rd choice but not keen on paying big money/wages for him.Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages
His contract expires in June next year, any fee won't be excessive, and I should think Southampton would do well to take a reasonable offer rather than lose him for free in 6 months...
Bree is currently on 9.6kpw, same as Macca and JRC, whether this is being topped up by Southampton I don't know, so we will see, but hopefully he does sign asap...12 -
NabySarr said:
Unless you’ve got access to the club pay roll then you’ve got no idea what they are on, none of us do. No chance either are on 20k a week thougheastterrace6168 said:
Kelman and Kaminski are both 20kpw...Crispywood said:
Bree is apparently on 15-20k a week at Southampton our highest earner is reportedly Kaminski on 14-15k.eastterrace6168 said:Crispywood said:
They would also technically make around 400-500k in saved wages as well so thats technically profit if they have no intention of using him as well. It will likely come down to if Bree is happy to take a wage cut to come hereeastterrace6168 said:Ilovelondontown said:
No your not, although I’m not say bree is 3rd choice but not keen on paying big money/wages for him.Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages
His contract expires in June next year, any fee won't be excessive, and I should think Southampton would do well to take a reasonable offer rather than lose him for free in 6 months...
Bree is currently on 9.6kpw, same as Macca and JRC, whether this is being topped up by Southampton I don't know, so we will see, but hopefully he does sign asap...
No access to the club pay roll obviously and ready to be corrected, just going by salaryleaks.com...🤷♂️5 -
We do have an idea.eastterrace6168 said:NabySarr said:
Unless you’ve got access to the club pay roll then you’ve got no idea what they are on, none of us do. No chance either are on 20k a week thougheastterrace6168 said:
Kelman and Kaminski are both 20kpw...Crispywood said:
Bree is apparently on 15-20k a week at Southampton our highest earner is reportedly Kaminski on 14-15k.eastterrace6168 said:Crispywood said:
They would also technically make around 400-500k in saved wages as well so thats technically profit if they have no intention of using him as well. It will likely come down to if Bree is happy to take a wage cut to come hereeastterrace6168 said:Ilovelondontown said:
No your not, although I’m not say bree is 3rd choice but not keen on paying big money/wages for him.Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages
His contract expires in June next year, any fee won't be excessive, and I should think Southampton would do well to take a reasonable offer rather than lose him for free in 6 months...
Bree is currently on 9.6kpw, same as Macca and JRC, whether this is being topped up by Southampton I don't know, so we will see, but hopefully he does sign asap...
No access to the club pay roll obviously and ready to be corrected, just going by salaryleaks.com...🤷♂️
He was on 13k a week at Blackburn, Luton he was on 25k a week. His salary is going to be somewhere between that figure, otherwise he wouldn't have signed.
I've been told by multiple people, with a few having 'connections' in the football world he is on around 20k a week.
Not aimed at Naby in particular, but it irks me when people imply we don't have an idea on how much players are paid, when we have one of the most powerful tools in our hands and can roughly work it out by process of elimination and using publicised figures as a comparison.
We pay one of the lowest wages in the Championship on average, on par with Oxford United and Pompey (as expected) Kaminski is our highest paid player, and it is closer to 20k a week than it is 10k.2 -
For £20k a week I would have hoped for someone who can catch the ballBraziliance said:
We do have an idea.eastterrace6168 said:NabySarr said:
Unless you’ve got access to the club pay roll then you’ve got no idea what they are on, none of us do. No chance either are on 20k a week thougheastterrace6168 said:
Kelman and Kaminski are both 20kpw...Crispywood said:
Bree is apparently on 15-20k a week at Southampton our highest earner is reportedly Kaminski on 14-15k.eastterrace6168 said:Crispywood said:
They would also technically make around 400-500k in saved wages as well so thats technically profit if they have no intention of using him as well. It will likely come down to if Bree is happy to take a wage cut to come hereeastterrace6168 said:Ilovelondontown said:
No your not, although I’m not say bree is 3rd choice but not keen on paying big money/wages for him.Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages
His contract expires in June next year, any fee won't be excessive, and I should think Southampton would do well to take a reasonable offer rather than lose him for free in 6 months...
Bree is currently on 9.6kpw, same as Macca and JRC, whether this is being topped up by Southampton I don't know, so we will see, but hopefully he does sign asap...
No access to the club pay roll obviously and ready to be corrected, just going by salaryleaks.com...🤷♂️
He was on 13k a week at Blackburn, Luton he was on 25k a week. His salary is going to be somewhere between that figure, otherwise he wouldn't have signed.
I've been told by multiple people, with a few having 'connections' in the football world he is on around 20k a week.
Not aimed at Naby in particular, but it irks me when people imply we don't have an idea on how much players are paid, when we have one of the most powerful tools in our hands and can roughly work it out by process of elimination and using publicised figures as a comparison.
We pay one of the lowest wages in the Championship on average, on par with Oxford United and Pompey (as expected) Kaminski is our highest paid player, and it is closer to 20k a week than it is 10k.14 -
But Naby is right. Unless you know people who will tell you accurate info (and it sounds like you very well may do) there is no way of knowing. Until you get to PL level transfers journalists don't get fed wages to report on. The only official info we get is a lump sum paid on salaries which comes out in the club accounts the following season. All the websites supposedly publishing wages are taking a guess. For some players they might be accurate as they might have contacts, for others it certainly won't be. I always think back to one site that got posted which claimed Cambridge had a top ten L1 wage budget while ours was about 18thBraziliance said:
We do have an idea.eastterrace6168 said:NabySarr said:
Unless you’ve got access to the club pay roll then you’ve got no idea what they are on, none of us do. No chance either are on 20k a week thougheastterrace6168 said:
Kelman and Kaminski are both 20kpw...Crispywood said:
Bree is apparently on 15-20k a week at Southampton our highest earner is reportedly Kaminski on 14-15k.eastterrace6168 said:Crispywood said:
They would also technically make around 400-500k in saved wages as well so thats technically profit if they have no intention of using him as well. It will likely come down to if Bree is happy to take a wage cut to come hereeastterrace6168 said:Ilovelondontown said:
No your not, although I’m not say bree is 3rd choice but not keen on paying big money/wages for him.Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages
His contract expires in June next year, any fee won't be excessive, and I should think Southampton would do well to take a reasonable offer rather than lose him for free in 6 months...
Bree is currently on 9.6kpw, same as Macca and JRC, whether this is being topped up by Southampton I don't know, so we will see, but hopefully he does sign asap...
No access to the club pay roll obviously and ready to be corrected, just going by salaryleaks.com...🤷♂️
He was on 13k a week at Blackburn, Luton he was on 25k a week. His salary is going to be somewhere between that figure, otherwise he wouldn't have signed.
I've been told by multiple people, with a few having 'connections' in the football world he is on around 20k a week.
Not aimed at Naby in particular, but it irks me when people imply we don't have an idea on how much players are paid, when we have one of the most powerful tools in our hands and can roughly work it out by process of elimination and using publicised figures as a comparison.
We pay one of the lowest wages in the Championship on average, on par with Oxford United and Pompey (as expected) Kaminski is our highest paid player, and it is closer to 20k a week than it is 10k.7 -
I think it’s more that sometimes those salary websites are quoted as facts when they’re only estimates, and sometimes obviously completely wrong.Braziliance said:
We do have an idea.eastterrace6168 said:NabySarr said:
Unless you’ve got access to the club pay roll then you’ve got no idea what they are on, none of us do. No chance either are on 20k a week thougheastterrace6168 said:
Kelman and Kaminski are both 20kpw...Crispywood said:
Bree is apparently on 15-20k a week at Southampton our highest earner is reportedly Kaminski on 14-15k.eastterrace6168 said:Crispywood said:
They would also technically make around 400-500k in saved wages as well so thats technically profit if they have no intention of using him as well. It will likely come down to if Bree is happy to take a wage cut to come hereeastterrace6168 said:Ilovelondontown said:
No your not, although I’m not say bree is 3rd choice but not keen on paying big money/wages for him.Gisappointed said:
Am I the only person that would rather try a Japanese untried youngster over a third choice journeyman?ross1 said:If Bree signs permanently he will have to accept a cut in wages
His contract expires in June next year, any fee won't be excessive, and I should think Southampton would do well to take a reasonable offer rather than lose him for free in 6 months...
Bree is currently on 9.6kpw, same as Macca and JRC, whether this is being topped up by Southampton I don't know, so we will see, but hopefully he does sign asap...
No access to the club pay roll obviously and ready to be corrected, just going by salaryleaks.com...🤷♂️
He was on 13k a week at Blackburn, Luton he was on 25k a week. His salary is going to be somewhere between that figure, otherwise he wouldn't have signed.
I've been told by multiple people, with a few having 'connections' in the football world he is on around 20k a week.
Not aimed at Naby in particular, but it irks me when people imply we don't have an idea on how much players are paid, when we have one of the most powerful tools in our hands and can roughly work it out by process of elimination and using publicised figures as a comparison.
We pay one of the lowest wages in the Championship on average, on par with Oxford United and Pompey (as expected) Kaminski is our highest paid player, and it is closer to 20k a week than it is 10k.12
