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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
Comments
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Its as I said on the Post-Match thread last night... Its not necessarily about the transfer fees that you throw about, if you can be smart enough and do the scouting properly then you can find gems out there for a lot less than what you might have to pay... Our best players have come from nominal fees over recent years; Ramsay and Small for example... Carey this season who joined on a free transfer.Even Chambers, who very few were happy with, when he first joined.I think that the Recruitment (along with the Medical team, which is now sorted) is one area that has really suffered over the last decade, first with Duchatalet and then Sandgaard with the way things were ran. Hopefully Chapple incoming last summer, will start to see things done a bit more properly... But again... Expecting instant results, not to mention successful results every signing, is massively unrealistic.8
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I think if you look at most clubs in the EFL their recruitment probably has a similar success rate to ours. Most teams make lots of bad signingsI think we’ve been lucky enough to have seen almost perfect windows with Powell in 2011 and maybe Bowyer/Gallen 2018 and it feels like we judge every window against that gold standard rather than judging it against an average team.We’ve made plenty of mistakes on recruitment but so does every team in the EFL. Recruitment is very difficult, especially when you don’t have the wages to offer that other clubs in the league have3
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But we’ve thrown about transfer fees and not been smart.ForeverAddickted said:Its as I said on the Post-Match thread last night... Its not necessarily about the transfer fees that you throw about, if you can be smart enough and do the scouting properly then you can find gems out there for a lot less than what you might have to pay... Our best players have come from nominal fees over recent years; Ramsay and Small for example... Carey this season who joined on a free transfer.Even Chambers, who very few were happy with, when he first joined.I think that the Recruitment (along with the Medical team, which is now sorted) is one area that has really suffered over the last decade, first with Duchatalet and then Sandgaard with the way things were ran. Hopefully Chapple incoming last summer, will start to see things done a bit more properly... But again... Expecting instant results, not to mention successful results every signing, is massively unrealistic.Carey has been good, dykes also.But we at the moment are not a club that can afford to throw 10 + million quid on duds and players that aren’t ready for the level.A shotgun approach to transfers does not work when every penny counts3 -
I just wonder if we stay up will the style of play evolve and route one to 2 big lads was just a means to an end to stay up and then we go and get some real midfield quality in the summer that can properly compete at this level.
I think it will always be 352 regardless , I don't expect us to suddenly be a 442 Box midfield or a 433 with flying wingers but I'll be interested to see if there is a style evolution.2 -
MarcusH26 said:I just wonder if we stay up will the style of play evolve and route one to 2 big lads was just a means to an end to stay up and then we go and get some real midfield quality in the summer that can properly compete at this level.
I think it will always be 352 regardless , I don't expect us to suddenly be a 442 Box midfield or a 433 with flying wingers but I'll be interested to see if there is a style evolution.I'd be surprised if we evolved from our creativity coming from the Wing-Backs, thats always been a favoured approach from JonesHaving two big lads up top might be the norm, when you think of Carlton Morris and AdebayoI think the key areas in the Summer, definitely have to be strengthening the Midfield, that sits in front of the Defence, and the Wing-BacksI dont think our attack is too bad, we just need to find ways to supply them better.1 -
Ironically FA , interesting you directly mention Adebayo... Wonder if he comes back fit and Luton don't go up if he might be a target.ForeverAddickted said:MarcusH26 said:I just wonder if we stay up will the style of play evolve and route one to 2 big lads was just a means to an end to stay up and then we go and get some real midfield quality in the summer that can properly compete at this level.
I think it will always be 352 regardless , I don't expect us to suddenly be a 442 Box midfield or a 433 with flying wingers but I'll be interested to see if there is a style evolution.I'd be surprised if we evolved from our creativity coming from the Wing-Backs, thats always been a favoured approach from JonesHaving two big lads up top might be the norm, when you think of Carlton Morris and AdebayoI think the key areas in the Summer, definitely have to be strengthening the Midfield, that sits in front of the Defence, and the Wing-BacksI dont think our attack is too bad, we just need to find ways to supply them better.1 -
Apart from the fact I don't think we've signed any duds, all transfers are gambles. The reality of every football club's situation is that a great number of transfers that consume your budget aren't going to work out how you hope. You build a team over numerous years where some of the transfers in certain windows worked and others didn't. Our excellent back 3 is made up of a free transfer from Cambridge that people would have gladly sold for parts back in early 2024, a right back we signed from L2 and a free transfer we picked up this summer. Three different windows. Same with our midfield. It's even harder when you step up a level and could honestly do with upgrading all 11 positions but have to make do. We signed fairly young players on long contracts who are getting their first proper taste of Championship football in many cases, having fans write them off as duds after less than a season of the team doing surprisingly well says more about the fans than the players. Some players need time, some just won't work out. Some big transfers will let you down and some frees will be the best player you've seen at the club in years. The expectation some fans seem to have that all money signings be successful instantly is just unrealistic and a lot of it stems from the fact we've spent so long in L1 while the game changed around us that people don't seem to be able to grasp just how little £10m is at this level. That's 1-2 Championship level signings for an established side and we had to split it across a whole team's worth of playersAberystwythAddick said:
But we’ve thrown about transfer fees and not been smart.ForeverAddickted said:Its as I said on the Post-Match thread last night... Its not necessarily about the transfer fees that you throw about, if you can be smart enough and do the scouting properly then you can find gems out there for a lot less than what you might have to pay... Our best players have come from nominal fees over recent years; Ramsay and Small for example... Carey this season who joined on a free transfer.Even Chambers, who very few were happy with, when he first joined.I think that the Recruitment (along with the Medical team, which is now sorted) is one area that has really suffered over the last decade, first with Duchatalet and then Sandgaard with the way things were ran. Hopefully Chapple incoming last summer, will start to see things done a bit more properly... But again... Expecting instant results, not to mention successful results every signing, is massively unrealistic.Carey has been good, dykes also.But we at the moment are not a club that can afford to throw 10 + million quid on duds and players that aren’t ready for the level.A shotgun approach to transfers does not work when every penny counts5 -
Recruitment by and large in the summer window has been dreadful.2
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We like him (well most of us do) because he's our manager but you'd be hard pushed to find fans of any other club apart from Luton who like him.ShootersHillGuru said:
Is he unlikeable ? I think he comes across really well in his interviews. Definitely think he has a connection with Charlton over and above his salary. Supportive of his players. Modest in victory and honest in defeat. Shows fan like passion in the heat of battle. Bit looney but who cares. Looney can be good.oohaahmortimer said:i think he's done beyond brilliant in turning it around but he's still a real unlikeable prick , which doesn't matter one jot while establishing ourselves in the Championship.
Has he got what it takes to take us to the next level and promotion to the Prem , not sure he's ever done the job before but the here and now has been perfect , so far
Don't play Bell in an unwinnable cup tie v Chelsea though next time , it's not rocket science
He's a managerial version of Robbie Savage or Bruno Fernandes. Own fans like him, everyone else thinks he's an annoying prick.5 -
I thought in these days of data coming out of our ears recruitment should be a bit more scientific? It has to be a combo or art (player personality / motivation / team fit) and science (data). Curbs and Powell, with less data to go on, seemed to manage pretty well in comparison.1
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After three solid performances in a row I find it hard to believe that every single player went off the boil at the same time last night. Is Jones really that easily outthought by opposition managers? Our improved standards were worryingly short lived and I hope he doesn’t go another stretch of games without adapting like we did over December and January.3
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That will definitely be the plan. We saw it last season, by the back end of the season we were playing some decent stuff, creating chances and scoring goals. It’s never going to be that nice to watch but I’m certain that Jones plans to evolve the style as we settle at this level, but this year was all about doing whatever it takes to stay up which still looks like it is going to be a successMarcusH26 said:I just wonder if we stay up will the style of play evolve and route one to 2 big lads was just a means to an end to stay up and then we go and get some real midfield quality in the summer that can properly compete at this level.
I think it will always be 352 regardless , I don't expect us to suddenly be a 442 Box midfield or a 433 with flying wingers but I'll be interested to see if there is a style evolution.4 -
In a hypothetical situation where he walks up to Charlton fans as an opposition manager after a 1-0 win and tells them to "fuck off" he would get dogs abuse by most on here, no matter what was said by those fans prior.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
We like him (well most of us do) because he's our manager but you'd be hard pushed to find fans of any other club apart from Luton who like him.ShootersHillGuru said:
Is he unlikeable ? I think he comes across really well in his interviews. Definitely think he has a connection with Charlton over and above his salary. Supportive of his players. Modest in victory and honest in defeat. Shows fan like passion in the heat of battle. Bit looney but who cares. Looney can be good.oohaahmortimer said:i think he's done beyond brilliant in turning it around but he's still a real unlikeable prick , which doesn't matter one jot while establishing ourselves in the Championship.
Has he got what it takes to take us to the next level and promotion to the Prem , not sure he's ever done the job before but the here and now has been perfect , so far
Don't play Bell in an unwinnable cup tie v Chelsea though next time , it's not rocket science
He's a managerial version of Robbie Savage or Bruno Fernandes. Own fans like him, everyone else thinks he's an annoying prick.
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I think there's been flashes that we can get it down and play it's just frustratingly only been flashes. Bree's goal at Derby being the prime example that we can do it.NabySarr said:
That will definitely be the plan. We saw it last season, by the back end of the season we were playing some decent stuff, creating chances and scoring goals. It’s never going to be that nice to watch but I’m certain that Jones plans to evolve the style as we settle at this level, but this year was all about doing whatever it takes to stay up which still looks like it is going to be a successMarcusH26 said:I just wonder if we stay up will the style of play evolve and route one to 2 big lads was just a means to an end to stay up and then we go and get some real midfield quality in the summer that can properly compete at this level.
I think it will always be 352 regardless , I don't expect us to suddenly be a 442 Box midfield or a 433 with flying wingers but I'll be interested to see if there is a style evolution.
I'll take this as a means to an end of staying up but I would love to see a bit more quality and nous in the middle of the park. Pack,Adams and Swift are nothing especially wonderful but we made them look like world-beaters.0 -
NJ employs a very limited style of football which is a tough watch. Not clear how it will evolve?
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It is a combo but the data led signings (the L1 "superstars") haven't worked well so we've probably adjusted what our data team are looking for. The other issue is that every team in the Championship (bar Wrexham) has had more time at this level to establish the correct data points to go for. The market is very different to under Powell/Curbs, it is much more crowded and much less contacts basedWeegie Addick said:I thought in these days of data coming out of our ears recruitment should be a bit more scientific? It has to be a combo or art (player personality / motivation / team fit) and science (data). Curbs and Powell, with less data to go on, seemed to manage pretty well in comparison.1 -
For as long as we either keep bypassing the midfield or don’t have any creation from midfield, and keep playing not to lose, rather than try to win, our evolution will only go so far. I don’t see Nathan completely changing philosophy , so I don’t really know where that will take us from next season if we stay up. I’m not saying NJ out, but a bit confused as to how he evolves us.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:NJ employs a very limited style of football which is a tough watch. Not clear how it will evolve?3 -
I feel like we've gone back in time two years under Jones, and can understand it.He came in this time of the year in February 2024, and the aim of the game was to keep us up my any means necessary, it wasn't pretty, and people were asking even then if he was the right choice for us long term and couldn't see any success under his wing.We're now in the same position where we're looking to survive... the last three games haven't been pretty, but we've got four points from a possible seven and have really started to grind out results compared to the recent poor run of form, and hopefully last night was more of the exception to that... which still will happen... But once again, the same concerns about Jones' long term ability is appearing, like what it did in 2024.The aim of the game is once again survival, its by any means necessary, its not going to be pretty... and I dont overly care, provided it works4
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How much did we spend on those 7 though?fenaddick said:Harsh to include Sichenje there. Here’s the other side for a bit of balance
Bell: Free, key player
Carey: Free, key player
Clarke: Loan, Really good until last night, played every game since coming in
Dykes: Free (?), Most assists in the squad for the season, played every minute (I think!)
Chambers: Loan, Promising and great going forward, played every game
Fevrier: Loan, Definitely a punt, glimpses of quality yesterday
Coady: Loan, Played every game since signing and most people were singing his praises since until one poor 45 mins yesterday
So that’s another 7 with a different record. Recruitment is always a gamble and we’ve corrected errors in my opinion
What I don't get is how money is tight yet not one of the players we paid money for has been anywhere near a success.
People said on here the day we signed him Kelman didn't suit our system.
They said Apter was a luxury player and not Jones' type.
Ditto JRC - too lightweight for Jones.
Tanto and Knibbs hardly played so hard to call them complete failures but why spend money on them and not on the positions that we needed to improve upon.
I'm right in thinking that unlike many managers Jones has total control over who we sign which makes it all very odd.1 -
You're right that the fees paid were poor and haven't necessarily represented good value. I would suggest we have learned from that though and made better deals. The idea with most of our summer recruitment was they have the ability to kick on over the next 2 seasons when they can then be sold for good money, not working yet but there is still time I supposekinveachyaddick said:
How much did we spend on those 7 though?fenaddick said:Harsh to include Sichenje there. Here’s the other side for a bit of balance
Bell: Free, key player
Carey: Free, key player
Clarke: Loan, Really good until last night, played every game since coming in
Dykes: Free (?), Most assists in the squad for the season, played every minute (I think!)
Chambers: Loan, Promising and great going forward, played every game
Fevrier: Loan, Definitely a punt, glimpses of quality yesterday
Coady: Loan, Played every game since signing and most people were singing his praises since until one poor 45 mins yesterday
So that’s another 7 with a different record. Recruitment is always a gamble and we’ve corrected errors in my opinion
What I don't get is how money is tight yet not one of the players we paid money for has been anywhere near a success.
People said on here the day we signed him Kelman didn't suit our system.
They said Apter was a luxury player and not Jones' type.
Ditto JRC - too lightweight for Jones.
Tanto and Knibbs hardly played so hard to call them complete failures but why spend money on them and not on the positions that we needed to improve upon.
I'm right in thinking that unlike many managers Jones has total control over who we sign which makes it all very odd.1 -
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I feel like the promotion inbetween is a fairly relevant, yet missing part to this storyForeverAddickted said:I feel like we've gone back in time two years under Jones, and can understand it.He came in this time of the year in February 2024, and the aim of the game was to keep us up my any means necessary, it wasn't pretty, and people were asking even then if he was the right choice for us long term and couldn't see any success under his wing.We're now in the same position where we're looking to survive... the last three games haven't been pretty, but we've got four points from a possible seven and have really started to grind out results compared to the recent poor run of form, and hopefully last night was more of the exception to that... which still will happen... But once again, the same concerns about Jones' long term ability is appearing, like what it did in 2024.The aim of the game is once again survival, its by any means necessary, its not going to be pretty... and I dont overly care, provided it works3 -
My point was more focused on the mindset Jones takes when battling relegation... Its all about grinding out results rather than looking pretty, we saw it in 2024, we're seeing it again now... and seems by the comments, that both times, people are wondering if Jones has the ability to make us look better, when we've already got evidence of that from the promotion.cafcnick1992 said:
I feel like the promotion inbetween is a fairly relevant, yet missing part to this storyForeverAddickted said:I feel like we've gone back in time two years under Jones, and can understand it.He came in this time of the year in February 2024, and the aim of the game was to keep us up my any means necessary, it wasn't pretty, and people were asking even then if he was the right choice for us long term and couldn't see any success under his wing.We're now in the same position where we're looking to survive... the last three games haven't been pretty, but we've got four points from a possible seven and have really started to grind out results compared to the recent poor run of form, and hopefully last night was more of the exception to that... which still will happen... But once again, the same concerns about Jones' long term ability is appearing, like what it did in 2024.The aim of the game is once again survival, its by any means necessary, its not going to be pretty... and I dont overly care, provided it works1 -
I agree. I'm happy with us playing sufferball and getting points than being expansive and losing 3-0 every week. You have to adapt to the players you have.
I really would not like to see our current midfield try and outfootball other teams. we'd finish below Wednesday somehow.2 -
AberystwythAddick said:
I saw this on Twitter, written out this is dire recruitment.Looks crap, system isn't for him?!Obvs a twatter comment Kelman is (joint if your including cup competitions*) second highest scorer this season. Hate this fanbase sometimes 🤦♂️*- even then the joint player would be Leaburn and the same people will be hating on him.
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*- Should of signed from the start of Januaryfenaddick said:Harsh to include Sichenje there. Here’s the other side for a bit of balance
Bell: Free, key player
Carey: Free, key player
*Clarke: Loan, Really good until last night, played every game since coming in
Dykes: Free (?), Most assists in the squad for the season, played every minute (I think!)
*Chambers: Loan, Promising and great going forward, played every game
Fevrier: Loan, Definitely a punt, glimpses of quality yesterday
Coady: Loan, Played every game since signing and most people were singing his praises since until one poor 45 mins yesterday
So that’s another 7 with a different record. Recruitment is always a gamble and we’ve corrected errors in my opinion
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It being small at the level but massive for us are both true. We are not a rich team, spending that sort of money is a lot for us. We have wasted that money on two signings who are back in league one, one who never gets played, another who wasn’t really getting a look in until injury, a striker who is now about 4 choice and a keeper who is not an improvement on Mannion. The first two are very much duds they were not good bough for the level and played outside of their natural positions a waste of our resources and waste of time. Kelman is nowhere near worth what we paid for him and is not suited to the more physical aggressive defenders of the champ and again does not fit in with the tactics we play. JRC gets overlooked by w 33 Berry and was again a sizeable chunk.Garrymanilow said:
Apart from the fact I don't think we've signed any duds, all transfers are gambles. The reality of every football club's situation is that a great number of transfers that consume your budget aren't going to work out how you hope. You build a team over numerous years where some of the transfers in certain windows worked and others didn't. Our excellent back 3 is made up of a free transfer from Cambridge that people would have gladly sold for parts back in early 2024, a right back we signed from L2 and a free transfer we picked up this summer. Three different windows. Same with our midfield. It's even harder when you step up a level and could honestly do with upgrading all 11 positions but have to make do. We signed fairly young players on long contracts who are getting their first proper taste of Championship football in many cases, having fans write them off as duds after less than a season of the team doing surprisingly well says more about the fans than the players. Some players need time, some just won't work out. Some big transfers will let you down and some frees will be the best player you've seen at the club in years. The expectation some fans seem to have that all money signings be successful instantly is just unrealistic and a lot of it stems from the fact we've spent so long in L1 while the game changed around us that people don't seem to be able to grasp just how little £10m is at this level. That's 1-2 Championship level signings for an established side and we had to split it across a whole team's worth of playersAberystwythAddick said:
But we’ve thrown about transfer fees and not been smart.ForeverAddickted said:Its as I said on the Post-Match thread last night... Its not necessarily about the transfer fees that you throw about, if you can be smart enough and do the scouting properly then you can find gems out there for a lot less than what you might have to pay... Our best players have come from nominal fees over recent years; Ramsay and Small for example... Carey this season who joined on a free transfer.Even Chambers, who very few were happy with, when he first joined.I think that the Recruitment (along with the Medical team, which is now sorted) is one area that has really suffered over the last decade, first with Duchatalet and then Sandgaard with the way things were ran. Hopefully Chapple incoming last summer, will start to see things done a bit more properly... But again... Expecting instant results, not to mention successful results every signing, is massively unrealistic.Carey has been good, dykes also.But we at the moment are not a club that can afford to throw 10 + million quid on duds and players that aren’t ready for the level.A shotgun approach to transfers does not work when every penny countsThese players are duds there is no other word for them.Summer was a window that had to go perfect in terms of recruitment, it didn’t and we will suffer for it.1 -
Nathan is very pragmatic in his approach and very unlikely to change I’m sure he will keep us up this season which will be mission accomplished but all this tosh about being the best version of ourselves, front footed etc is doing my head in. The gameplan is knock it long and try to feed off of a mistake. You can’t get away with that for long in the championship and most teams can actually play football look at Portsmouth they are at the bottom but played through us seemingly at will whereas we may as well not have a midfield. This year I’m sure is ok in terms of survival but next year is another matter unless we change a lot about our approach as the lack of flair will see us struggle2
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I don't know how anyone could have watched Kelman all season and think he's been successful. Been way off it IMO and can't see him being a Championship striker.JustFloydRoad said:AberystwythAddick said:I saw this on Twitter, written out this is dire recruitment.Looks crap, system isn't for him?!Obvs a twatter comment Kelman is (joint if your including cup competitions*) second highest scorer this season. Hate this fanbase sometimes 🤦♂️*- even then the joint player would be Leaburn and the same people will be hating on him.1 -
I think a combination of having broken their run of poor results against us at Fratton park, a Jimmy Seed stand that was absolutely up for it, and some complacency on our part following the Stoke match, sprinkled with a little bit of overzealous refereeing could easily explain yesterdays terrible result. And I haven't even mentioned the fact that their backs are to the wall - they are still 3 points behind us! You are right though, we could do with a bit more steel in midfield, although with yesterdays ref that could easily have lead to a sending off!AndyG said:Portsmouth they are at the bottom but played through us seemingly at will whereas we may as well not have a midfield.
I don't think Dykes and Leaburn upfront really helped, we needed some pace to keep them on the back foot.
Kaminski has his off days, and yesterday he had a howler with the first one, but I've seen some cracking saves from him that have won us a lot of points this season. You don't get this many clean sheets with a rubbish keeper.0 -
I have been a big Kelman backer but I'm not sure bragging about 4 goals is quite the gotcha you think it isJustFloydRoad said:AberystwythAddick said:I saw this on Twitter, written out this is dire recruitment.Looks crap, system isn't for him?!Obvs a twatter comment Kelman is (joint if your including cup competitions*) second highest scorer this season. Hate this fanbase sometimes 🤦♂️*- even then the joint player would be Leaburn and the same people will be hating on him.1
