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Charlton back up for sale - Guardian article comment from Gavin Carter p18
Comments
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killerandflash said:Some ridiculous comments about the current owners here, as if they were conmen/leaches like Southall or Farnell or crazy like Sandgaard.
They've invested significant sums into what was a L1 club, and is now a Championship club with a WSL women's team. Yes we would all like more money spent, and yes it would be disappointing if they want to sell out, but let's get some perspective about the current regime, and indeed Carter.
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Maybe me but I don’t find this line a compelling pitch:
“the last remaining football club upside opportunity in London”.
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Braziliance, every football club outside the premiership is a potential sale item or rather has a price. The problem this board faces is that they own a name and players contracts, nothing else, and whether we like it or not, most people sniffing around football clubs are looking at the land the ground the football club sits on to make a profit and if you want proof of that then the recent Ebbsfleet planning application, denied, should tell you all you need to know. It still baffles me that Sandgaard got any money at all, for selling a name and nothing else, the situation now, is not much different.Braziliance said:I reckon the club is up for sale, as it has been for some time, telling Rich they are just looking for investors is to pour water on it and keep us buying season tickets and plodding along.
Hopefully someone ambitious comes along, that's the best we can hope for, in the mean time, hope they can spare some Championship change to give us a fighting chance.5 -
If the owners are actually interested in selling the club then having the team sitting at or near the bottom of the league will not enhance attracting buyers. Serious prospect of relegation come January 2027 would potentially kill off interest completely. I’m still cautiously hopeful that the powder is still dry and we’ll spend as hoped. If a couple of decent signings don’t materialise then I agree all bets are off and we’re bang in trouble.J BLOCK said:People who are saying not to worry just yet, for me the biggest evidence that they are truly selling the fact we are no where near ready for the start of the season. This mob clearly are actively looking to sell otherwise we would have invested in the players to keep us up this season.9 -
I think the club will come out and say it's investment (if they say anything at all) but the reality is that they're more than open to a full sale. Anyone in football who would need to know, would know so the club can spin as they wish. Whether the lack of spending in the transfer market this season is linked or not, they haven't helped themselvesCrispywood said:If it’s just investment that is such a poor article by the Guardian.There is a massive difference between being open to new investment or actively looking to sell. One would help the club grow and the other would lead to a massive downgrade in tools likely leading to relegation0 -
Not hugely surprised you need deep pockets to compete for promotion in this league. When £3.5m gets you a Harry Clarke it shows how much cash is needed.
They probably hoped one of the youngsters would develop and be sold for big money to cover some expenses but didn't happen2 -
you'll never sing thatvalleynick66 said:Maybe me but I don’t find this line a compelling pitch:
“the last remaining football club upside opportunity in London”.
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FSG bought Liverpool about 15 years ago. Obviously any PL club bought years ago is worth far more now. The Glazers bought Man U for 800m, haven't invested a penny of their own money and the club is now worth billions simply due to the increased wealth in the PL.TheHerminator said:
There are a number of examples that prove you to be wrong here though aren't there?Chris_from_Sidcup said:Always baffles me that people (or investors) buy football clubs with the intention to make money.
Unless you take an underperforming Championship team or a league one team to the Premier league and keep them there for 2-3 years then you are not ever making money. And even then the profit is surely negligible as you will have likely lost a lot of money to get to the PL, and then spent most of your tv money on players/wages to keep you there.
A good recent example is Marinakis at Forest. He bought them for 50m, has lost a reported 250m, but they're supposedly worth over 500m now. But Forest are a rarity and even then they almost ended up back in the Championship last season which would've killed the valuation.
Steve Gibson (i know he's a fan and not an investor) has spent close to 400m of his own money on Middlesbrough and they've spent 16 of the last 17 years in the Championship.
Albeit on a different scale admittedly, the owners of liverpool bought the club for circa £300m, and the club is valued in the billions now.
Making money in football can be done, just very difficult and rare
But we are talking modern day, it's more difficult now. BlueCo for example are about 2 billion down since buying Chelsea. The very same huge increase in wealth in the PL is what has made it harder for club owners/investors to make money, and what is also causing many to spend fortunes just to try and get there/stay there.
Obviously there are exceptions, i didn't say there wasn't. I said they are rare.0 -
I've already lost money having gone down that route. I won't be chucking my money in a pot for someone else to piss it up the wall again.Blackheathen said:Why don’t they make Charlton into a public listed company. Then we can all own a little bit.4 -
No fair, I re read your post and you do mention the odd exception. ApologiesChris_from_Sidcup said:
FSG bought Liverpool about 15 years ago. Obviously any PL club bought years ago is worth far more now. The Glazers bought Man U for 800m, haven't invested a penny of their own money and the club is now worth billions simply due to the increased wealth in the PL.TheHerminator said:
There are a number of examples that prove you to be wrong here though aren't there?Chris_from_Sidcup said:Always baffles me that people (or investors) buy football clubs with the intention to make money.
Unless you take an underperforming Championship team or a league one team to the Premier league and keep them there for 2-3 years then you are not ever making money. And even then the profit is surely negligible as you will have likely lost a lot of money to get to the PL, and then spent most of your tv money on players/wages to keep you there.
A good recent example is Marinakis at Forest. He bought them for 50m, has lost a reported 250m, but they're supposedly worth over 500m now. But Forest are a rarity and even then they almost ended up back in the Championship last season which would've killed the valuation.
Steve Gibson (i know he's a fan and not an investor) has spent close to 400m of his own money on Middlesbrough and they've spent 16 of the last 17 years in the Championship.
Albeit on a different scale admittedly, the owners of liverpool bought the club for circa £300m, and the club is valued in the billions now.
Making money in football can be done, just very difficult and rare
But we are talking modern day, it's more difficult now. BlueCo for example are about 2 billion down since buying Chelsea. The very same huge increase in wealth in the PL is what has made it harder for club owners/investors to make money, and what is also causing many to spend fortunes just to try and get there/stay there.
Obviously there are exceptions, i didn't say there wasn't. I said they are rare.0 -
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Maybe we can get a couple of Hollywood stars to start our 'Fairytale'. We'd end up with Kevin Spacey & Bill Cosby.16
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To be fair to the Guardian, they couldn’t just use the same headline the Athletic used in January. Got to make the story seem different.1
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I think that both seeking investment and being open to a buy out are potentially true.8
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Yeah this is the likely scenario.ShootersHillGuru said:I think that both seeking investment and being open to a buy out are potentially true.Seeking investors but if a rich enough person comes along saying they want it sell.And when that fails there’s always a fake sheikh somewhere1 -
For those saying the owners don't really own anything, because they "only own the name and the players' contracts", I'd say this...
Most businesses don't actually own many tangible assets, such as bricks and mortar or even stock. The biggest asset in many businesses is goodwill.
A football club usually has that in abundance. It has a decent-sized, loyal customer base willing to spend money week in, week out, and in many cases pay in advance through season tickets. On top of that, there's a much larger group of supporters who follow the club but don't currently spend regularly, representing significant untapped revenue.
At clubs like Charlton, most fans aren't demanding Premier League titles. All we really want in return is maximum effort, sensible ownership, and a modicum of success every now and then. I think most of us who've supported Charlton for 20, 30 or 40 years have learned that managing expectations is part of being a fan. Compare that to clubs like Liverpool, where the expectation is to challenge for and win everything, every season.
So, if a prospective owner can see an opportunity to keep supporters onside relatively easily, while attracting crowds of 20,000+ every other week, I don't think not owning the bricks and mortar is necessarily much of a deterrent. In fact, it's pretty standard practice in many business acquisitions for the real value to lie in the business itself rather than the physical assets.
Having said all that... I don't personally think the club is for sale at the moment and would give the tip off my little finger for someone to come in and buy the assets from Roland!
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How fucking bonkers was that whole fake sheikh thing!AberystwythAddick said:
Yeah this is the likely scenario.ShootersHillGuru said:I think that both seeking investment and being open to a buy out are potentially true.Seeking investors but if a rich enough person comes along saying they want it sell.And when that fails there’s always a fake sheikh somewhere
Mad times. Thnigs can always be worse!1 -
CAFC= not very attractive
CAFC & GROUND = very attractive
until this is fixed we will struggle.
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Lucky Fin !_MrDick said:Woke up this morning feeling fin … oh wait 🥹5 -
blackpool72 said:Two of our owners are Billionaires.
If the cost of running Charlton is approximately 15 million per year then that is little more than loose change to them.
So I have no idea why they are so keen to bring in extra investments.
Carter is little more than their mouthpiece and he will come out with whatever he is told too.
I seriously have no idea what our owners are playing at , but I no longer believe they want to be here in the long run no matter what Carter will probably come out with today.
They aren't in it for the love of Charlton though. They are just impassionate businessmen. Buy a high risk/high reward asset. Improve it, de-risk by selling out some to another investor to a) prove there is interest and b) not out so much equity into it yourself going forwards.
In addition that Singaporean/Japanese lot went bust didn't they so assume their shares were moped up by existing shareholders and some of the smaller, less affluent minority owners may want out.
So plenty of reasons to sell part now for a businessman, no matter their wealth. No doubt that if someone came along and offered a crazy price for the lot that saw them taking a profit they would consider that too.
Their model and the model they will be selling will also be player trading and youth team magic money tree. Selling TC now helps them substantiate both of these to some degree.0 -
I'd have thought if the current owners are continuing (less one maybe) and simply looking for further investment, the summer window transfer/wage budget will have room for 1 or 2 quality signings or very good loans. The time until the transfer and loan windows close will be telling.
It will also be telling if the quality status quo stays the same or even reduces.
I wonder if the leak was to put pressure on during the window rather than allow a narrative afterwards of - 'we tried so hard but just couldn't get who we wanted in a very difficult window'.
As with many things, time will tell.
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Pelling1993 said:Maybe we can get a couple of Hollywood stars to start our 'Fairytale'. We'd end up with Kevin Spacey & Bill Cosby.
My big hope (unrealistic I know), is that The Rock buys in. Providing equity and a bigger cult following than Wrexham have.2 -
He's a Macclesfield fan though, hard to pull him away!Athletico Charlton said:Pelling1993 said:Maybe we can get a couple of Hollywood stars to start our 'Fairytale'. We'd end up with Kevin Spacey & Bill Cosby.
My big hope (unrealistic I know), is that The Rock buys in. Providing equity and a bigger cult following than Wrexham have.1 -
They need to sort the commercial arm out if they’re going to make any cash. Obviously Wrexham have the Hollywood factor but that’s how they make their money.0
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Stay completely away from celebrities, none have the money to do what is needed.Athletico Charlton said:Pelling1993 said:Maybe we can get a couple of Hollywood stars to start our 'Fairytale'. We'd end up with Kevin Spacey & Bill Cosby.
My big hope (unrealistic I know), is that The Rock buys in. Providing equity and a bigger cult following than Wrexham have.The Wrexham ones are figureheads for a much larger backing. Someone coming in as an investor is just being asked to pump money into nothing.We need extremely rich people to come in and sort this out.0 -
Perhaps the new agency gave this to the Guardian, to save them time in working behind the scenes and a wider reach?Henry Irving said:Reading Cawley's piece I suspect the club's stance would be that this is the same as before ie they are still looking for additional investment, as they said months ago (remember the "we've got £20m to spend" myth that came from the Athletic story), but the last agency didn't find anyone so they've gone with a new one.
Now, we can choose to believe that or not. We all have varying degrees of PTSD as a result of previous ownerships so I'm not surprised by the reaction to the Guardian story.
Whatever the real story is, the club "declining to comment" has only fuelled the flames and again highlights the need, IMHO, for an on the ground CEO and for the club to get ahead of the narrative.
Not having permanant staff at the top could be read as leaving the decks clear for new owners to appoint their own staff. It may be nothing of the sort and much more mundane recruitment issues but the delay/vacuum invites speculation.
There is also a question as to why the original agency failed and if the new one can do any better? Are we an unattractive deal, is the price too high or does the lack of physical assets put investors off?
Someone pointed out the Bolton owners sold a minority stake in their club this summer but why were they able to make a deal but not, so far at least, us?
Over to you GFP1 -
But also very attractive to owners who want to come in scrap the club and sell the ground.Ilovelondontown said:CAFC= not very attractive
CAFC & GROUND = very attractive
until this is fixed we will struggle.2 -
Great point! Not owning any property assets means we’re open to crooks buying us on the cheap and asset stripping. We’ve already been there before. We’ve been relatively lucky to have these owners. I also think the pink trousered one sold them a pup by claiming we were badly run (true) and could be run for £1-2m losses a year (fantasy). I see Charlie is on a podcast now, claiming to be an expert about the business of football.charente addick said:I wonder if the new efl spending rules have contributed to our owners ‘going cold’. We were low down on the list of Championship spenders anyway and the new rules have just exacerbated that position further. Our owners could have looked at this and thought ‘even if we spend to the max we cannot hope to compete for promotion so what’s the point. Let’s cut our losses.’
I’m not sure I’ve ever bought that they were in it for the long term. For a medium size club we were relatively cheap to buy as there are no property assets (ground/training ground) which makes us very attractive to even shorter term investors than football normally attracts. Jones and the players have done a great job in getting us up to the Championship and keeping us there but the lack of ownership of the property is always going to be a significant weakness which comes home to roost every 3 years or so when owners realise there is no fast buck.
The article may be exaggerated somewhat and hopefully Jones has a bit more money to spend to at least give us a chance of being competitive in holding our place in the division. But, no smoke without fire, the warning signs are there - we’ve seen them several times. I’m bracing myself for a very tough ride.1 -
Been down that road before, and it don't work...Shrew said:
But also very attractive to owners who want to come in scrap the club and sell the ground.Ilovelondontown said:CAFC= not very attractive
CAFC & GROUND = very attractive
until this is fixed we will struggle.1 -
I would suggest that they have had an eye opener on how much it will cost them to make Charlton a more secure Championship club.Chris_from_Sidcup said:Why do it now and not 2-3 months ago after we'd secured our Championship status?
Basically killed an entire pre-season.0 -
Anybody actively looking to buy a football club doesn’t really need a glossy brochure. They will already have people looking and advising on clubs that are or might be available. Certainly a firm like Oakwell are useful in perhaps finding money from investors that didn’t know they wanted to invest but I doubt they are particularly useful when selling up and looking for a buyer.What does concern me is the fact that further investment has been sought for what, a year now and nothing has been forthcoming. I’m not sure I fully buy into the spin that the right investors are more important than the money. It doesn’t stack up for me. I suspect our current ownership have reached a point where they are not prepared to invest beyond their commitments and have finally realised that their level of investment is unlikely to push us upwards. Something will give I feel over the coming months.2
