Climate Emergency

cafcnick1992 said:

jimmymelrose said:

Stig said:

I'm not sure why this thread has descended into a population vs consumption argument. Both population and consumption per capita are growing. Both are part of the problem.

As for meat production, it's definitely on the increase. Not just because the World's population is bigger, but because people are eating more meat than ever before. The two maps below show the massive increase in meat eating in just 21 years, this century.







 

https://ourworldindata.org/meat-production

Well done to Canada.

Gasoline is 85p a litre in Toronto

R0TW said:

Going to get one of those pop up big pools for next year.
Ideally fill it up with the neighbours hose when they’re on holiday.
Similar logic to importing oil rather than using our own
I am not taking it from my land although I have it, so therefore doing my bit for the environment

ShootersHillGuru said:

Garrymanilow said:

It's fascinating that now Europe is burning all over it makes it very difficult for the old crowd to deny climate change is real anymore, so instead of putting their hands up and admitting that they got it wrong before they're now just moving the argument elsewhere; I don't like the way the coverage is phrased, if you love the environment so much why do you keep breathing carbon dioxide into it hypocrite, the BBC are biased, it was warm once in medieval times too you know, why don't you talk about trees enough etc. It's intellectual cowardice presented as whataboutery and 'just asking questions'. It's weird to watch

Without any intention of broadening the argument. I find it fascinating that pretty much to a man it’s the same crowd that is climate change doubters that are the same people that to this day still support the unequivocal disaster that is Brexit. I understand why people like Farage and Tice are so vociferous that Climate Change is a con. They’re up to their eyeballs in money from those with a vested interest in the fossil fuel industry. In the same way that they still get money from those that despise the regulated EU. As to why anyone else with half a brain still has doubts that climate change is real and manmade is beyond me. Perhaps they’re still fed up with experts.

ME14addick said:

Chippycafc said:

swordfish said:

bobmunro said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

redman said:

Chizz said:

redman said:

Addick_and_Chips said:

I don't want to start a political debate on here as we all know how that goes.....

But is anyone else concerned that we are into our 5th heatwave of the year, which will lead to further food and water shortages?

I care deeply for the environment and have been worried for years about where we are heading. I find it staggering that it's not being discussed more in the media at the moment. 

Agree. And one of the reasons is that a lot of media, particularly the BCC, have always shut down anti climate change argument. I find myself in the bracket, probably like a lot, mostly enviromental, but whenever I express disagreement with what I call "extreme green" views I get abused as a climate change denier. That has happened here as well as elsewhere. There are some very arrogant people on all sides of this argument who don't want to debate. 

Can you spell out the main points of the "anti climate change argument"?  

You obviously missed the point of my post. It's the nuances of it that get me. We produce less than 1% of the world's CO2 but reducing ours and moving it to China and India is considered OK, where they are still building coal fired generators. Should we be ruing our economy when the world super powers do far less? Is me not going holiday really going to save the planet. 

You have a point as long as you accept that Climate Change is happening. I think the most stupid thing Governments do is trust car companies. They produce cars that don't last and cost massive amounts in terms of the ebvironment to build and dispose of. Yes, you can get cars with zero emissions but when you take into account a battery lasts about 8 years then needs replacing at a cost too high not to scrap your electric car. So the cost of keeping a small petrol car for 15 to 20 years is likely to be cheaper but is discouraged. If you export your CO2 production to other countries is doesn't count. Being green has to be green and I don't trust large companies, especially car companies, to be so. I think we are pretty much buggered but at least I don't pretend Climate Change isn't happening.

Anyone who pretends that climate change/global warming isn't happening is a fucking idiot. The questions  that need answers are a) what factors are causing it? (it's more than just burning fossil fuels), can global warming be reversed/halted? and if not then what do we need to do as humankind to mitigate wherever possible its effects?

I have no faith whatsoever that humankind is collectively capable of working together on the last point.

That's the frustration for me. We are capable. We know what needs doing, although we can't be 💯 it'd arrest the worst consequences of climate change now. But we don't have the collective willpower to make the necessary sacrifices to our lifestyles.

Chippy may have been flippant about foreign holidays and car usage, but he's bang on mentioning our attitude.

In general, we don't want to compromise our living standards, and we won't vote for governments that require us to. 

I was flippant mate cos those on here who bang on about climate change want everyone else but them to make the difference.. They won't change their life style to accommodate ie walking to work, getting on eco buses that's somebody's else's job. I can see right through them and they know it. 

Sadly the cozy club can't. 

No that's not the case at all. I can't walk far and have applied for a blue badge. I need my car to get to work, only one day in the office now and one from home. I need my car to take my husband to hospital for his appointments. I'd love to be in a position to  buy a new electric car. 

What is needed is for denial that man made climate change is real to stop. For everyone to put pressure on Governments to make it easier to move to greener ways of living. All the time there is mis/disinformation circulating, it's going to make it harder. 

The current extremely dry and hot summer is estimated to have cost the UK economy £4 billion and it's only going to get worse. 
 

Chippycafc said:

All the words are coming out now critical thinking to hides ones shame of do as I say not do as I do. 

There is no critical thinking... Dont lecture to others things that your not prepared to do yourself. 

It's not rocket science. 

Stig said:

Chippycafc said:

All the words are coming out now critical thinking to hides ones shame of do as I say not do as I do. 

There is no critical thinking... Dont lecture to others things that your not prepared to do yourself. 

It's not rocket science. 

I wonder if you will ever get the irony in what you have just posted.

cantersaddick said:

Chippycafc said:

All the words are coming out now critical thinking to hides ones shame of do as I say not do as I do. 

There is no critical thinking... Dont lecture to others things that your not prepared to do yourself. 

It's not rocket science. 

I haven't asked anyone to do anything at all, let alone something I am not prepared to do myself. 

I will however call on governments and industries to make the systematic changes required. 

Maybe try the thinking bit first and once youve managed a little bit of that you can then work on the critical part. 

Chippycafc said:

ME14addick said:

Chippycafc said:

redman said:

Chizz said:

redman said:

Addick_and_Chips said:

I don't want to start a political debate on here as we all know how that goes.....

But is anyone else concerned that we are into our 5th heatwave of the year, which will lead to further food and water shortages?

I care deeply for the environment and have been worried for years about where we are heading. I find it staggering that it's not being discussed more in the media at the moment. 

Agree. And one of the reasons is that a lot of media, particularly the BCC, have always shut down anti climate change argument. I find myself in the bracket, probably like a lot, mostly enviromental, but whenever I express disagreement with what I call "extreme green" views I get abused as a climate change denier. That has happened here as well as elsewhere. There are some very arrogant people on all sides of this argument who don't want to debate. 

Can you spell out the main points of the "anti climate change argument"?  

You obviously missed the point of my post. It's the nuances of it that get me. We produce less than 1% of the world's CO2 but reducing ours and moving it to China and India is considered OK, where they are still building coal fired generators. Should we be ruing our economy when the world super powers do far less? Is me not going holiday really going to save the planet. 

Well said... And though I can't stand them our new PM is backing what I said months ago about North Sea oil on another thread. The usual know alls tried to shut me down there too. But failed. AGAIN. 

Did you read my response to this? 

Do you have actual evidence?

Yes his own words... I appreciate it's difficult to believe anything that comes our of a PMs mouth especially in the last 2 years... But he said it..

Chippycafc said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

We’ve all been under the delusion and I mean all of us that something will come along and everything will be fine. Electric cars, solar farms, wind farms, something else. Truth is they’re all an illusion too because whatever we’re doing we’re not doing it fast enough. I think the climate is changing fast now and soon we’ll reach that magical tipping point and we’ll all be as shocked as fuck. 

Truth is we just don’t know if and when a tipping point might be reached with the things that drive our weather. The jet stream, the Gulf Stream. Sea temperatures, the list goes on. We see one of those big boys fall over and all bets are off. None of our science can predict if and when that nightmare might happen. I’ve no faith whatsoever that we’ll turn this around none.

You and me mate will be long time dead by the time electric cars will be the norm. 

Two things the infrastructure is years away yet and the country will be so over populated by then it will be pointless having one. 

Huskaris said:

I swear these threads get more boring each time an old one resurfaces after the previous one gets closed. 

All I've learnt is I don't need to feel guilty about going on my 6th foreign holiday this year next week. Most of them short haul though so it doesn't really count to be fair.

On a side note, some of the flouting of the hosepipe ban I have seen (and yes I am aware of the exemptions) have been absolutely brazen and hilariously outrageous 

cantersaddick said:

redman said:

cantersaddick said:

redman said:

cantersaddick said:

redman said:

Chizz said:

redman said:

Addick_and_Chips said:

I don't want to start a political debate on here as we all know how that goes.....

But is anyone else concerned that we are into our 5th heatwave of the year, which will lead to further food and water shortages?

I care deeply for the environment and have been worried for years about where we are heading. I find it staggering that it's not being discussed more in the media at the moment. 

Agree. And one of the reasons is that a lot of media, particularly the BCC, have always shut down anti climate change argument. I find myself in the bracket, probably like a lot, mostly enviromental, but whenever I express disagreement with what I call "extreme green" views I get abused as a climate change denier. That has happened here as well as elsewhere. There are some very arrogant people on all sides of this argument who don't want to debate. 

Can you spell out the main points of the "anti climate change argument"?  

You obviously missed the point of my post. It's the nuances of it that get me. We produce less than 1% of the world's CO2 but reducing ours and moving it to China and India is considered OK, where they are still building coal fired generators. Should we be ruing our economy when the world super powers do far less? Is me not going holiday really going to save the planet. 

Ahhh the old "but China and India" argument. Also known as the Fox News argument. A proper classic - in that its about 15 years out of date. 

Firstly that 1% figure is a classic manipluation of how data is communicated to fool those who lack critical thought. It is the current annual emissions share, what it misses is that the UK is the world's 5th-largest cumulative emitter historically. Cumulative CO2 is what actually determines how much warming has already been locked in. A country doesn't get to exclude its historical contribution just because its current annual share has fallen.

Even if what you state about China and India is true (it isnt but we will get to that shortly) it still misses the key point: If the UK wishes to use its soft power to push China, India or anyone else towards aster climate action then it relies on its diplomatic credibility which is dependent on the UK taking its own action and being a leader in this. The UK has outsized influence on climate diplomacy (COP26 presidency, climate finance commitments, its position in international negotiations) but this is only because of its own delivery on the climate. 
There is also a more direct beenfit of developing and scaling technologies at home (offshore wind, grid-scale storage, solar manufacturing/recycling) builds an exportable industry and expertise that others buy. That's not a sacrifice, it's positioning UK firms to profit from a transition that's happening regardless of what the UK does. 

Now lets dig into whether what you state about China and India is atually true. TLDR: Its not.
This argument is massively out of date, both are decarbonising incredibly quickly. 
- China installed a record 315 GW of new solar capacity in 2025 alone, taking cumulative solar past 1.2 terawatts and pushing non-fossil power sources past thermal generation for the first time. Combined wind and solar capacity now exceeds 47% of China's total installed power capacity, having overtaken thermal power for the first time.https://www.pv-magazine.com/2026/01/28/china-adds-315-gw-of-solar-in-2025/
-Coal power generation fell in both China and India in 2025 — the first simultaneous decline in both countries in 52 years — driven by record clean-energy growth outpacing demand. 
https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-coal-power-drops-in-china-and-india-for-first-time-in-52-years-after-clean-energy-records
-India added a record 41 GW of renewables in the first eleven months of 2025 alone, raising renewables to 40% of installed capacity, while coal-fired generation fell by 3% — only the second full-year decline in at least 50 years. India has already passed 50% non-fossil installed capacity in 2025, ahead of its 2030 target https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/india-power-sector-review-2025/
-Electric cars made up almost 55% of new car sales in China in 2025, and an estimated 44 million electric cars were on Chinese roads by the end of the year https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2026/trends-in-electric-cars
-India's residential rooftop scheme, PM Surya Ghar, launched in February 2024 — and has already overtaken the UK's entire rooftop solar base in raw numbers, from a colder start: it has passed 5 million households and 14.8 GW of cumulative rooftop capacity, with installations now running at over 16,000 households a day — one of the fastest-growing clean energy programmes anywhere in the world. It's targeting 10 million households by March 2027.https://www.pv-magazine-india.com/2026/08/04/pm-surya-ghar-rooftop-solar-scheme-surpasses-5-million-households/

That's not a poorer country lagging behind on the technology the UK is being asked to adopt - its countried installing at a rate the UK isnt close to matching.

So the picture isn't "the West decarbonises while China and India keep building coal" — it's closer to a genuine global race, with China and India adding renewable capacity faster in absolute terms than any Western economy ever has. That undercuts the case for the UK sitting it out, and strengthens the case that credible leadership (technology, policy, finance) is exactly what accelerates that trend further, rather than free-riding on it.
Across power generation, EVs, and rooftop solar, the pattern is consistent: China and India aren't dragging their feet while the UK carries the burden — in several of these metrics they're outpacing the UK. That doesn't mean the UK should relax its own effort; if anything it strengthens the opposite conclusion — the "waiting for others to move first" argument was already weak, but at this point the others have moved.

To directly tackle your question:"Should we be ruing(sp) our economy when the world super powers do far less?"
a) As shown above others are doing more not less
b) Its proovably not ruining our economy. In fact the opposite is true.
The green sector isn't a drag on the UK economy, it's currently one of its best performers:
-The UK's net zero economy now supports over a million jobs and added £105 billion in gross value added in 2025 alone, making it one of the UK's fastest-growing economic sectors.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/energy-security-jobs-and-investment-boost-through-climate-action
- The sector's total economic value has grown 10.1% since 2023 — roughly three times the growth rate of the wider UK economy — and net zero jobs are 40% more productive than the national average, with wages 15% higher.
https://www.cbi.org.uk/articles/growth-and-innovation-in-the-uk-s-net-zero-economy/
- It's genuinely a UK-wide story, not a London bubble: the West Midlands, Yorkshire & the Humber, and South West England are emerging as major hotspots, while Scotland's net zero economy alone contributes £9.1 billion in GVA and over 100,000 full-time jobs.
https://www.cbi.org.uk/articles/growth-and-innovation-in-the-uk-s-net-zero-economy/
- The sector is underpinned by over 23,500 businesses, more than 96% of them SMEs — this is broad-based enterprise growth, not a handful of subsidised giants — and there's £455 billion of investment already planned or under construction across 262 GW of capacity, roughly four times current installed renewable capacity.
https://www.cbi.org.uk/articles/net-gains-the-uks-net-zero-economy-in-2025/
- Even during the 2023 recession, the net-zero economy grew 9% year-on-year while the wider British economy contracted — the sector was explicitly cited as bucking the broader downturn.
https://www.malaymail.com/news/money/2024/02/28/uk-net-zero-economy-bucks-recession-study-shows/120355

Put those together and the "should we ruin our economy" framing gets the direction of travel backwards. This is the sector actively reindustrialising parts of the country that lost manufacturing decades ago, turning old industrial and coastal regions into hubs for offshore wind, battery manufacturing, and grid infrastructure, with productivity and wages above the national average. Any government serious about growth and regional rebalancing would be doubling down on a sector outperforming the rest of the economy three-to-one, not treating it as an act of self-harm. The economic case for slowing down here is actually harder to make than the case for accelerating.

So once again your "arguments" dont stand up to the tiniest bit of scrutiny and dont match the evidence. 

per Global Energy Monitor; In the first half of 2026 alone, China brought 30 gigawatts (GW) of new coal power capacity online and started construction on an additional 25.4 GW. Around 392 GW of total capacity is announced, prepared, or permitted. spanning over 300 individual projects in various stages.  China operates well over 1,100 active coal power stations.

 

The number of new coal-fired power plants built around the world hit a “10-year high” in 2025, even as the global coal fleet generated less electricity, amid a “widening disconnect” in the sector. That is according to the latest annual report from Global Energy Monitor (GEM), which finds that the world added nearly 100 gigawatts (GW) of new coal-power capacity in 2025, the equivalent of roughly 100 large coal plants.

It adds that 95% of the new coal plants were built in India and China. 

O well everything I say is wrong so ..........

I didnt say China and India werent operating coal or even opening coal but the evidence I cited shows they are building renewables faster and that their coal usage has in fact peaked and begun to fall. That isnt to mean it isnt a problem but that its not the argument that it once was given the rate of growth of their green sectors. They are likely to be well ahead of us in not very long (in fact they are in a number of areas). So using them as an excuse to take no action - which is the point you oringinally made - is in fact wrong.

How is my point wrong? I said they are using coal fired plants which is clearly true. You see what you want to see. As bad as most politicians 

Because your point was "why should we be reducing our emissions when India and China are still using coal". My response was that yes they are still using coal (I'm not denying that) but they are also moving faster than us to reduce emissions so why would that be a reason for us not to bother. 

You are now pretending you didnt say the part about it meaning we shouldnt have to bother.

bobmunro said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

redman said:

Chizz said:

redman said:

Addick_and_Chips said:

I don't want to start a political debate on here as we all know how that goes.....

But is anyone else concerned that we are into our 5th heatwave of the year, which will lead to further food and water shortages?

I care deeply for the environment and have been worried for years about where we are heading. I find it staggering that it's not being discussed more in the media at the moment. 

Agree. And one of the reasons is that a lot of media, particularly the BCC, have always shut down anti climate change argument. I find myself in the bracket, probably like a lot, mostly enviromental, but whenever I express disagreement with what I call "extreme green" views I get abused as a climate change denier. That has happened here as well as elsewhere. There are some very arrogant people on all sides of this argument who don't want to debate. 

Can you spell out the main points of the "anti climate change argument"?  

You obviously missed the point of my post. It's the nuances of it that get me. We produce less than 1% of the world's CO2 but reducing ours and moving it to China and India is considered OK, where they are still building coal fired generators. Should we be ruing our economy when the world super powers do far less? Is me not going holiday really going to save the planet. 

You have a point as long as you accept that Climate Change is happening. I think the most stupid thing Governments do is trust car companies. They produce cars that don't last and cost massive amounts in terms of the ebvironment to build and dispose of. Yes, you can get cars with zero emissions but when you take into account a battery lasts about 8 years then needs replacing at a cost too high not to scrap your electric car. So the cost of keeping a small petrol car for 15 to 20 years is likely to be cheaper but is discouraged. If you export your CO2 production to other countries is doesn't count. Being green has to be green and I don't trust large companies, especially car companies, to be so. I think we are pretty much buggered but at least I don't pretend Climate Change isn't happening.

Anyone who pretends that climate change/global warming isn't happening is a fucking idiot. The questions  that need answers are a) what factors are causing it? (it's more than just burning fossil fuels), can global warming be reversed/halted? and if not then what do we need to do as humankind to mitigate wherever possible its effects?

I have no faith whatsoever that humankind is collectively capable of working together on the last point.