+++ Omonia Nicosia complete Thomas Kaminski loan signing (p34) +++

CAFCsayer said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

LargeAddick said:

He wants to go, should cover any salary shortfall himself.

Yeah good luck with that, I am currently on gardening leave sitting on a beach in sri lanka. My current company which is folding has to pay me a substantial amount over the next 2 months, I wont start a job until end of gardening leave unless they pay me early or we can come to agreement that is in my favour. No doubt Kaminski is doing the same for even more money.

But different if the company is folding. Sounds like Kaminski is the one saying he wants to leave... He has 3 options, he stays here and trains, takes a wage cut to leave, or sods off somewhere and refuses to play and we can sue him for breach of contract

But Kaminski might be saying he wants to go elsewhere but equally at 33 may not want to take a paycut, both things can be true at same time.

He may prefer option 2 but also equally happy to have a year with option 1, knowing full well the club wpuldnt want that. The club do not want a 20k a week player not playing, if he refuses to take a pay cut its in the club beat interest to cover some of his wages.

If I was Kaminski id be going to Jones saying I dont want to be here, you dont want me here (and its clear Jones doesnt), let me go elsewhere but I am not losing a penny. Its the state of football nowdays, he 100% is not going to walk out on 20k a week knowing that he will probably never earn that amount in his career at this stage. Ultimately we made a bad deal and need to salvage what we can.

Says a lot about your professionalism. If he did that I'd be telling Jones to call his bluff and say he would be training with the under 15s and fining him for everything under the sun we can get away with. He clearly wants to leave for personal reasons, if he wants to deal with it that way (there is no insinuation he does) then we should respond the same way and make working life horrendous

I am with the Wetherspoons snob on this one.

I understand what you say about professionalism but it is only a job, a player needs to look after themselves and do not need to show loyalty the majority of the time.

It happens all the time that clubs accept offers on players and the player has to uproot because a club wants to sell them.

I get the principal, but the contract is there to protect both parties... In that situation he can choose to train, sit it out and pick up his wage which he is contractually due. What radostan is suggesting is essentially saying if you don't let me go and subsidise my wage then I'm not going to work. If you sign a contract, it should be honoured both ways... If your manager decides he wants to take you out of the front line, that's his perogative, you're still going to get paid. If you decide you're not going to work and are going to take the piss, you should be penalised

CAFCsayer said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

LargeAddick said:

He wants to go, should cover any salary shortfall himself.

Yeah good luck with that, I am currently on gardening leave sitting on a beach in sri lanka. My current company which is folding has to pay me a substantial amount over the next 2 months, I wont start a job until end of gardening leave unless they pay me early or we can come to agreement that is in my favour. No doubt Kaminski is doing the same for even more money.

But different if the company is folding. Sounds like Kaminski is the one saying he wants to leave... He has 3 options, he stays here and trains, takes a wage cut to leave, or sods off somewhere and refuses to play and we can sue him for breach of contract

But Kaminski might be saying he wants to go elsewhere but equally at 33 may not want to take a paycut, both things can be true at same time.

He may prefer option 2 but also equally happy to have a year with option 1, knowing full well the club wpuldnt want that. The club do not want a 20k a week player not playing, if he refuses to take a pay cut its in the club beat interest to cover some of his wages.

If I was Kaminski id be going to Jones saying I dont want to be here, you dont want me here (and its clear Jones doesnt), let me go elsewhere but I am not losing a penny. Its the state of football nowdays, he 100% is not going to walk out on 20k a week knowing that he will probably never earn that amount in his career at this stage. Ultimately we made a bad deal and need to salvage what we can.

Says a lot about your professionalism. If he did that I'd be telling Jones to call his bluff and say he would be training with the under 15s and fining him for everything under the sun we can get away with. He clearly wants to leave for personal reasons, if he wants to deal with it that way (there is no insinuation he does) then we should respond the same way and make working life horrendous

I am with the Wetherspoons snob on this one.

I understand what you say about professionalism but it is only a job, a player needs to look after themselves and do not need to show loyalty the majority of the time.

It happens all the time that clubs accept offers on players and the player has to uproot because a club wants to sell them.

I get the principal, but the contract is there to protect both parties... In that situation he can choose to train, sit it out and pick up his wage which he is contractually due. What radostan is suggesting is essentially saying if you don't let me go and subsidise my wage then I'm not going to work. If you sign a contract, it should be honoured both ways... If your manager decides he wants to take you out of the front line, that's his perogative, you're still going to get paid. If you decide you're not going to work and are going to take the piss, you should be penalised

ElfsborgAddick said:

CAFCsayer said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

LargeAddick said:

He wants to go, should cover any salary shortfall himself.

Yeah good luck with that, I am currently on gardening leave sitting on a beach in sri lanka. My current company which is folding has to pay me a substantial amount over the next 2 months, I wont start a job until end of gardening leave unless they pay me early or we can come to agreement that is in my favour. No doubt Kaminski is doing the same for even more money.

But different if the company is folding. Sounds like Kaminski is the one saying he wants to leave... He has 3 options, he stays here and trains, takes a wage cut to leave, or sods off somewhere and refuses to play and we can sue him for breach of contract

But Kaminski might be saying he wants to go elsewhere but equally at 33 may not want to take a paycut, both things can be true at same time.

He may prefer option 2 but also equally happy to have a year with option 1, knowing full well the club wpuldnt want that. The club do not want a 20k a week player not playing, if he refuses to take a pay cut its in the club beat interest to cover some of his wages.

If I was Kaminski id be going to Jones saying I dont want to be here, you dont want me here (and its clear Jones doesnt), let me go elsewhere but I am not losing a penny. Its the state of football nowdays, he 100% is not going to walk out on 20k a week knowing that he will probably never earn that amount in his career at this stage. Ultimately we made a bad deal and need to salvage what we can.

Says a lot about your professionalism. If he did that I'd be telling Jones to call his bluff and say he would be training with the under 15s and fining him for everything under the sun we can get away with. He clearly wants to leave for personal reasons, if he wants to deal with it that way (there is no insinuation he does) then we should respond the same way and make working life horrendous

I am with the Wetherspoons snob on this one.

I understand what you say about professionalism but it is only a job, a player needs to look after themselves and do not need to show loyalty the majority of the time.

It happens all the time that clubs accept offers on players and the player has to uproot because a club wants to sell them.

I get the principal, but the contract is there to protect both parties... In that situation he can choose to train, sit it out and pick up his wage which he is contractually due. What radostan is suggesting is essentially saying if you don't let me go and subsidise my wage then I'm not going to work. If you sign a contract, it should be honoured both ways... If your manager decides he wants to take you out of the front line, that's his perogative, you're still going to get paid. If you decide you're not going to work and are going to take the piss, you should be penalised

CAFCsayer said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

LargeAddick said:

He wants to go, should cover any salary shortfall himself.

Yeah good luck with that, I am currently on gardening leave sitting on a beach in sri lanka. My current company which is folding has to pay me a substantial amount over the next 2 months, I wont start a job until end of gardening leave unless they pay me early or we can come to agreement that is in my favour. No doubt Kaminski is doing the same for even more money.

But different if the company is folding. Sounds like Kaminski is the one saying he wants to leave... He has 3 options, he stays here and trains, takes a wage cut to leave, or sods off somewhere and refuses to play and we can sue him for breach of contract

But Kaminski might be saying he wants to go elsewhere but equally at 33 may not want to take a paycut, both things can be true at same time.

He may prefer option 2 but also equally happy to have a year with option 1, knowing full well the club wpuldnt want that. The club do not want a 20k a week player not playing, if he refuses to take a pay cut its in the club beat interest to cover some of his wages.

If I was Kaminski id be going to Jones saying I dont want to be here, you dont want me here (and its clear Jones doesnt), let me go elsewhere but I am not losing a penny. Its the state of football nowdays, he 100% is not going to walk out on 20k a week knowing that he will probably never earn that amount in his career at this stage. Ultimately we made a bad deal and need to salvage what we can.

Says a lot about your professionalism. If he did that I'd be telling Jones to call his bluff and say he would be training with the under 15s and fining him for everything under the sun we can get away with. He clearly wants to leave for personal reasons, if he wants to deal with it that way (there is no insinuation he does) then we should respond the same way and make working life horrendous

I am with the Wetherspoons snob on this one.

I understand what you say about professionalism but it is only a job, a player needs to look after themselves and do not need to show loyalty the majority of the time.

It happens all the time that clubs accept offers on players and the player has to uproot because a club wants to sell them.

I get the principal, but the contract is there to protect both parties... In that situation he can choose to train, sit it out and pick up his wage which he is contractually due. What radostan is suggesting is essentially saying if you don't let me go and subsidise my wage then I'm not going to work. If you sign a contract, it should be honoured both ways... If your manager decides he wants to take you out of the front line, that's his perogative, you're still going to get paid. If you decide you're not going to work and are going to take the piss, you should be penalised

To be fair the Wetherspoons snob has not said in any way that Kaminski should tell Jones I will not play for Charlton again.

CAFCsayer said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

LargeAddick said:

He wants to go, should cover any salary shortfall himself.

Yeah good luck with that, I am currently on gardening leave sitting on a beach in sri lanka. My current company which is folding has to pay me a substantial amount over the next 2 months, I wont start a job until end of gardening leave unless they pay me early or we can come to agreement that is in my favour. No doubt Kaminski is doing the same for even more money.

But different if the company is folding. Sounds like Kaminski is the one saying he wants to leave... He has 3 options, he stays here and trains, takes a wage cut to leave, or sods off somewhere and refuses to play and we can sue him for breach of contract

But Kaminski might be saying he wants to go elsewhere but equally at 33 may not want to take a paycut, both things can be true at same time.

He may prefer option 2 but also equally happy to have a year with option 1, knowing full well the club wpuldnt want that. The club do not want a 20k a week player not playing, if he refuses to take a pay cut its in the club beat interest to cover some of his wages.

If I was Kaminski id be going to Jones saying I dont want to be here, you dont want me here (and its clear Jones doesnt), let me go elsewhere but I am not losing a penny. Its the state of football nowdays, he 100% is not going to walk out on 20k a week knowing that he will probably never earn that amount in his career at this stage. Ultimately we made a bad deal and need to salvage what we can.

Says a lot about your professionalism. If he did that I'd be telling Jones to call his bluff and say he would be training with the under 15s and fining him for everything under the sun we can get away with. He clearly wants to leave for personal reasons, if he wants to deal with it that way (there is no insinuation he does) then we should respond the same way and make working life horrendous

I am with the Wetherspoons snob on this one.

I understand what you say about professionalism but it is only a job, a player needs to look after themselves and do not need to show loyalty the majority of the time.

It happens all the time that clubs accept offers on players and the player has to uproot because a club wants to sell them.

I get the principal, but the contract is there to protect both parties... In that situation he can choose to train, sit it out and pick up his wage which he is contractually due. What radostan is suggesting is essentially saying if you don't let me go and subsidise my wage then I'm not going to work. If you sign a contract, it should be honoured both ways... If your manager decides he wants to take you out of the front line, that's his perogative, you're still going to get paid. If you decide you're not going to work and are going to take the piss, you should be penalised

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

CAFCsayer said:

Radostanradical said:

LargeAddick said:

He wants to go, should cover any salary shortfall himself.

Yeah good luck with that, I am currently on gardening leave sitting on a beach in sri lanka. My current company which is folding has to pay me a substantial amount over the next 2 months, I wont start a job until end of gardening leave unless they pay me early or we can come to agreement that is in my favour. No doubt Kaminski is doing the same for even more money.

But different if the company is folding. Sounds like Kaminski is the one saying he wants to leave... He has 3 options, he stays here and trains, takes a wage cut to leave, or sods off somewhere and refuses to play and we can sue him for breach of contract

But Kaminski might be saying he wants to go elsewhere but equally at 33 may not want to take a paycut, both things can be true at same time.

He may prefer option 2 but also equally happy to have a year with option 1, knowing full well the club wpuldnt want that. The club do not want a 20k a week player not playing, if he refuses to take a pay cut its in the club beat interest to cover some of his wages.

If I was Kaminski id be going to Jones saying I dont want to be here, you dont want me here (and its clear Jones doesnt), let me go elsewhere but I am not losing a penny. Its the state of football nowdays, he 100% is not going to walk out on 20k a week knowing that he will probably never earn that amount in his career at this stage. Ultimately we made a bad deal and need to salvage what we can.

Says a lot about your professionalism. If he did that I'd be telling Jones to call his bluff and say he would be training with the under 15s and fining him for everything under the sun we can get away with. He clearly wants to leave for personal reasons, if he wants to deal with it that way (there is no insinuation he does) then we should respond the same way and make working life horrendous

You say "Says alot about your professionalism" then goes on to say if I was a manager I would fine him for every possible infractions and essentially bully him in the workplace. MAke hIs liFe hOrrendOus. Ok mate. Keep living on whatever land you are in. Make it make sense.

Jones doesnt want him why should he leave money on the table, he signed a contract and should expect it to be honoured.

Going to saftely assume we work in different industries, I'd be sued into oblivion if I acted like that. Respect is a 2 way street, if you act like a dick you deserve to get treated like one imo

He was Jones' number 1, so clearly did want him. If you can sign a contract and it's not worth the paper it's written on, what is the point in signing it in the first place. It shouldn't just be to protect the employee, your post looks like you are projecting.

Loool how different of an induustry can it be and I really find your arguments confused. The contract is worth something, hence why he is trying to e force it. Jones has clearly changed his mind as he dropped him for substantial part of last season and could possibly be starting Mannion this season.

I have quit a drop begore and was working my notice, I asked my company to release me early and they refused. I explained I was losing money by staying and they didnt budge, I worked the notice but obviously I wasnt happy about it. Now I am in opposote position and I will only cut my gardening leave if my current company compensates me, I am not going to leave money on the table.

You say respect is a two way street but you seem to just take the side of the employer? Why should TK not insist Charlton cover the difference if NJ doesnt want him anymore?

I don't at all, in your situation I'd do the same, doesn't sound similar to Kaminski at all.

It'd be like you deciding you'd had enough at working for your company and telling them you want to leave and then telling them that your new employer is going to pay you less, so you expect them to make up the difference.

mart77 said:

I’ve said previously that I think this is a personal issue for TK and it should be something that is left in-house. Jones said the below in an interview with Rich Cawley when asked why he could leave:

He (NJ) said: “That is something that we will keep in-house and maybe one day we will have that (out in the open).

Radostanradical said:

se9addick said:

I don’t agree that Jones doesn’t want Kaminski or that Kaminski was “dropped…for a substantial part of last season”. That feels like making things up to suit an argument as Kaminski played in 37 out of 46 league matches last season and was clearly first choice this pre-season. 

Incorrect, you are either making up stuff to suit your agenda or misremembering. Neither is forgivable. Kaminski played the last 3 games due to a Mannion howler match. Yes he was our first choice until the end at the very crunch of the season and then Jones dropped him. You can look through the match squads yourself. Being dropped for 9 matches as a first choice keeper is not insignificant. I accept your apology.

CAFCsayer said:

Weird hill to die on, supporting player power over your own club, despite being completely wrong

mart77 said:

This is a big ‘ouch’ unless he’s already been sold.

EugenesAxe said:

mart77 said:

This is a big ‘ouch’ unless he’s already been sold.

could be a slightly cryptic way of saying hes already gone