Owners- Short arms & Long pockets..........or no pockets?

Lincsaddick said:

NabySarr said:

Lincsaddick said:

NabySarr said:

Lincsaddick said:

Sword65pf said:

Lincsaddick said:

I suspect that our owners are reluctant to continue giving Jones and his advisers money for new signings, as his record so far, when it comes to Championship standard signings is abysmal. 

Then sack him and give the money to someone they trust🤷🏻‍♂️, if not back him again.

Is the obvious answer. I would hope the owners, assuming they still give a fig about us, are looking around for a successor to Jones This will not be easy. Our recent managerial roster is made up of chancers, past its and no hopers. No point in appointing another such in place of Jones who despite his shortcomings is still hanging on by his fingernails i m o. Also as we are up for sale, Jones is possibly safe until new owners decide on his and the clubs futures .. 
Charlton for sale as Global Football Partners eye exit - Inside World Football .. Global Football Partners - shareholders with 5%+ each: Gabriel Brener and family Private investor and former majority shareholder of a Major League Soccer team Joshua Friedman and family Co-Founder, Co-Chairman and Co-Chief Executive Officer of Canyon Partners, LLC, a leading global alternative asset management firm Warren Rosenfeld and family.

(Canyon Partners list the aquisition of 'distressed assets' as one of its main strategies)

Anyway, back to the point at hand .. 
Nathan Jones has done (and still is doing) his best for the club, but i m o his best is not good enough, he is just not a Championship class manager

I wish Nathan Jones no ill will at all. Pro football is a tough and ruthless business, he knows that very well.
Very few managers are really successesful, most try very hard, work 24/7 and still fail. Such is life 

Can you point me to a time when Nathan Jones has under-achieved in a full season as a championship manager? Kept Luton up, got them to mid table and then got them to the play offs, and kept us up. So from 4 full seasons at this level he has overachieved every time 

His only failure was at Stoke where plenty of good championship managers have also failed. 

So based on his record. How is he not a championship class manager? And which championship class manager would you replace him with? 

I m o Luton's success during their 'Jones era' was as much if not more down to Mick Harford's coaching and leadership as it was down to Nathan J .. I posted this today on the 'I am going to say it' etc etc thread .. an opinion I first posted way back 

B t w .. Are you making a bid to be Nathan's P R person ? .. or already got the gig ?  ..  anymore questions ?
It'd be good if you made a critique of my whole posts and not just the parts which suit your particular agenda to pick on

So when Jones does well, its other people responsible. But when he does badly its his fault? Harford wasn't on the coaching staff (other than the times Jones left and he stepped in), he was responsible for recruitment. In fact, in one of those periods where Harford was caretaker they decided instead to hire Jones back and he led them to safety. He must have been an unbelievable coach to have that much impact with his coaching in a few caretaker manager spells. Harford was very good at his job, and recruited good players, so was Jones, who coached them to success. 

I didn't disagree with the rest of your post other than the statement that Jones isn't a championship class manager, which I disagreed with based on his record of over-achievement in the championship

Yes to that part.
2016 ..  joined Luton .. 
2019 .. 10 months at Stoke having jumped ship at Luton ? .. sacked. Return to Luton (and the safe arms of Mick Harford)
2022 .. jumped from the Luton ship again BUT ... 4 months at Southampton (in the Prem) .. sacked 2023 having served  the shortest period as a 'full time' manager of the Saints.
2024 .. Joined CAFC where Curtis Fleming now his assistant was acting as manager. Success like a few CAFC managers before him as a third tier manager, promotion through the playoffs. In the Championship, so far little more than manging to avoid relegation. 

Not a great record. I'm sure Jones does his limited best though I doubt he is is a good man manager and he certainly lacks tactical nous. Just opinions of course, but results and performances speak for themselves. 

You ask who would I like to replace Jones ?.  Most 'available' British managers have a history of recent failure otherwise they would still be employed. I say again, I can't see any 'upwardly mobile' British manager wanting to grasp the Charlton nettle.

Picking a name. Perhaps Jack Wilshire, another Lutonian. He's not tainted with failure as yet. Of course no Champ experience. Still learning the job, so far so good. It'll never happen though.
There must be a host of young ex pros with more coaching badges than you can throw a stick at who are gasping for an EFL job. Who ? I know not

Or perhaps we should emulate (e.g.) Brighton, Southampton and Middlesbrough and look to appoint a young(ish) continental coach who's looking to make a career in the EFL. A clever German if possible

Question I can't answer is who ?  I pass that puzzle to the CAFC talent spotters and scouts, if we have any left.

Athletico Charlton said:

To me, more than the noise of owners and NJ, is our scouting. 

Our recruitment has been poor for years.  The way to outperform in football is through recruitment first and foremost. Brighton and Brentford are the shining examples and their managers are just cogs in a bigger machine (look at the performance of Frank and Potter after leaving as an example).

If I was an owner, that is where my money would have been spent.  Swansea having a great season after taking Brighton's recruitment data - could we have got hold of that instead?  They took Beadle and Ezenwata off us and wanted M'Bick, surely there was some kind of deal to be struck. 
Lincoln another club with an amazing recruitment record.

I look at our team and our best player is TC who came through the youth.  Despite spending the best part of £15M+ in the last 15 months or so, how much could we sell our first teamers for, when you exclude the kids and people like Lloyd Jones who joined well before any of the current managers/owners?  Not a lot I fear.

That is simply poor recruitment.  Chapple has to take some responsibility for that, but what is the team around him and how does it compare with other Championship (and even League One) teams?

shine166 said:

Blame the scouting, but almost every signing is follow by NJ stating that hes been watching them for years. 

MarcusH26 said:

Do think the recruitment is a major major issue. Is it just Chapple going all over Europe and Calvin Charlton covering Scotland specifically?

How much does data play a role in our recruitment, are we tied to a company already for data so couldn't be eligible for the Jamestown/Tony Bloom package for this season? 

I was expecting a few more signings from Europe this summer but I guess with the 4 GBE exemption slots that's always going to be tricky. I assume with Sichenje out for the season and Ouma AWOL we will actually have some flexibility on those for January. 

If your budget gets slashed halfway through the window and you then have to pivot on who your targets are , it's even more important that you get them right and it just feels like we're trending towards more misses than hits which we really couldn't afford to have happen. 

sam3110 said:

Well if Calvin Charlton was responsible for Edwards and then Koumetio, I'd be looking at him getting a greater responsibility, or focusing even harder on players north of the border

Stig said:

For me the biggest problem with our recruitment is that we make too many risky appointments, and too many of those risks blow up in our faces. Whether it's taking on players with persistent injuries or poorly disciplined players or ones whose careers have nosedived, you can bet your bottom dollar that when we sign them the injuries and indiscipline will continue as will their tailspinning careers. I'd like to see some steady Eddie recruiting.  

Stig said:

Yeah, I get all that Crispywood and NabySarr. Maybe it would feel better if just once in a while we took a punt on a risky player and things turned out well.

Athletico Charlton said:

To me, more than the noise of owners and NJ, is our scouting. 

Our recruitment has been poor for years.  The way to outperform in football is through recruitment first and foremost. Brighton and Brentford are the shining examples and their managers are just cogs in a bigger machine (look at the performance of Frank and Potter after leaving as an example).

If I was an owner, that is where my money would have been spent.  Swansea having a great season after taking Brighton's recruitment data - could we have got hold of that instead?  They took Beadle and Ezenwata off us and wanted M'Bick, surely there was some kind of deal to be struck. 
Lincoln another club with an amazing recruitment record.

I look at our team and our best player is TC who came through the youth.  Despite spending the best part of £15M+ in the last 15 months or so, how much could we sell our first teamers for, when you exclude the kids and people like Lloyd Jones who joined well before any of the current managers/owners?  Not a lot I fear.

That is simply poor recruitment.  Chapple has to take some responsibility for that, but what is the team around him and how does it compare with other Championship (and even League One) teams?

North Lower Neil said:

Stig said:

For me the biggest problem with our recruitment is that we make too many risky appointments, and too many of those risks blow up in our faces. Whether it's taking on players with persistent injuries or poorly disciplined players or ones whose careers have nosedived, you can bet your bottom dollar that when we sign them the injuries and indiscipline will continue as will their tailspinning careers. I'd like to see some steady Eddie recruiting.  

I assume we do that precisely because we're trying to do it on the cheap.

Jones wanted a central midfielder who was better and more positive in possession than those we had, and he ended up with Chalobah on a free after a long-ish trial.

I don't think he would have chosen Chalobah if the other option was £4-5m on a better/younger/less injury prone option.

We're shopping the yellow sticker section.

MarcusH26 said:

Crispywood said:

They’ve updated the staff list on the club website as of today, correct me if I’m wrong there used to be 7 owners with 5%+ stake in the club list is now down to 5. 

Shows there are some people at the club willing to cash in 

Cracking spot but I can't figure who's missing? I thought ACA Football Partners were out of the scene a while ago? 

* Oh it's Charlie of course. 

Stig said:

fenaddick said:

Stig said:

Yeah, I get all that Crispywood and NabySarr. Maybe it would feel better if just once in a while we took a punt on a risky player and things turned out well.

Like Josh Edwards or Kayne Ramsay or Billy Koumetio?

Is that the same Josh Edwards as the one that was out injured for over a year and who still isn't up to speed? The same Kayne Ramsay who's only played four times this season, contributing to combined team performances that have earned a whopping two points? The same Billy Koumetio who, apart from one tackle, looked absolutely dreadful on Saturday?

In all seriousness though, you have picked three of our best signings. However, the fact that they are three of our best speaks volumes about our recruitment.