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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic vs Southampton - Saturday 22nd November 2025 - 12:30pm Kick-Of
Comments
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Once we had gone two down it was all over, and I just sat back and enjoyed the masterclass of Armstrong and their number 18.
There'll be other hidings like this in the future, not by such a great margin, perhaps, but they will happen. What will also happen is that we will mete out some modest hidings of our own as the season progresses and the teams mired around the relegation zone become more vulnerable.
I'd like to see Berry start more; where he would fit in, I don't know. Over Docherty?
One moment in the first-half had me out of my seat and applauding when one of their lot got flagged for a foul throw-in, an absolute rarity nowadays.
'Bravo, linesman!'
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For those who thought Leaburn lacked any effort or looked like he didn’t care, I suggest you go to spec savers. Link up play in the first half between him and TC was missing but he busted a gut to win every ball and ran down every lost cause.As for the ref, well I don’t like to dig out refs but what in Hades was he doing for that free kick getting in the way of Carey and not even apologising? Anyway, we got our backsides handed to us in a mad 20 minute spell and Jones post match interview summed it up perfectly.21
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I’m wondering if I watch a different match to some of our fans, Leaburn grafted, put it about a bit and had some decent touches, it’s just he has limited options with what to do with the ball due to the lack of midfield support yesterday.35
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Only read the comments on this page, but have to agree that Leaburn was probably the one player who started the game who left with his credibility intact.9
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Kaminski? - I dont think there was a single goal that he conceded, where I felt he should have done betterAlgarveaddick said:Only read the comments on this page, but have to agree that Leaburn was probably the one player who started the game who left with his credibility intact.
He was hung out to dry by the ten ahead of him, and pulled off that great save at 0-0
My one complaint about Leaburn, and I'm probably going to sound a bit like Golfie here, is that as a Striker, you don't see him get into many positions to convert chances... Bit like Kelman (who until he scored, was getting even less of a pass) he's too often out on the flank, or on the edge of the area acting as the link up between Midfield and Campbell.
Again for all Campbell's faults, he's the one playing as a Striker (and going by arguments on here... is a Winger), who more often than not, is the one consistent who is at the end of any moves etc. whereas the others arent even in that position.6 -
Come on Godden, your team needs YOU..🙏5
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I dont think its just as simple as having Godden backeastterrace6168 said:Come on Godden, your team needs YOU..🙏
Yesterday showed the lack of balance we've got in the team at the moment - No natural wing-backs, so the Midfield was stretched trying to help protect players in unfamiliar areas that the likes of Bree / Edwards / Ramsay / Bell can all occupy with "ease"
We're back to where we were this time last year, where people are over analysising the issue because on that occasion, the claim was once again that we couldn't be bad simply because of injuries when we had the likes of Watson / Ramsay / Jones / Edwards out of the team, yet again was as a result of there being no balance to the side.
On that occasion it didn't help because Jones wouldn't just alter the team, he'd tinker with the formation as well, which only helped confuse matters further... So is a warning to those who think that we should simply implement a "Plan B"... Its easier said than done - Jones himself seems to be remembering that from last year, by currently trying to keep things simple, and as is, by sticking to the same formation.
What's frustrating, is again like last year, we have two options to play Left Wing-Back, and both are out injured, same scenario as last season, only we were missing both Right Wing-Backs - Arguments can be made that we should have strengthened better in the summer, but there is NO CHANCE that anyone could seriously prepare for losing two players in the exact same position, I mean what, do you sign a third player in that position, what if they get injured... You sign a fourth... Where does it end?6 -
Devils advocate, Was he good enough last month when we were winning games and he was getting man of the match?cafcsinger said:There’s a reason Hull got shot of Docherty - no way near good enough, but he runs around a lot so people like him.16 -
I felt it was a bit like the first 25 minutes of the Ipswich game, except they hit the bar, didn't take their chances, then we grew into the game and won it. Sadly that didn't happen yesterday, they scored 4 in 10 minutes and to be honest could've even been 2 up before they scored the first.
Thought Jones should've changed things earlier but i guess he thought that similar to Ipswich that we could ride the storm, but then all of a sudden it was 0-2 and before we could react it was 0-4.
Terrible day at the office, need to regroup ahead of Stoke but as others have said we have a big problem to resolve on that left side.7 -
So I've held back from sharing my thoughts from yesterday until the morning, let's face it when we share thoughts straight after the whistle they're always full of emotion from the moment and I wanted some hindsight to kick in a bit.
And honestly? I'm not fussed by the result at all. Yes it was a VERY painful watch but I'm not concerned in the slightest about it in terms of what happens next. Do I expect us to go thump Stoke on Tuesday night? Not a chance. Do I think we'll get a point or more from Coventry, probably not to be honest. But look at this time last year when we had players out and we hit probably the lowest moment in recent history with the Crawley Town game, after that we had players return from injuries, and we turned things around so much that we've broken records and got ourselves promoted to the Championship.
The Championship is a mental league too and results like this are happening to teams across the league during the season, but they don't dictate the season ahead and they won't shape things either. If anything we probably needed some grounding as fans because we've been starting to dream of promotion already and we really need to be more sensible with our expectations, yesterday reminded us of that.
But I do think we'll ride this out and once we've got through the injuries, we'll have a real strong second half of the season that'll lead us to establishing our place in this league, and then we can start dreaming for more.26 -
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Front 2 definitely does not work. I know we are limited right now but TC just isn't a striker or championship player for me. He might run a lot but decision making and end product is woeful. I really do believe he won't score once this season. However I do see him as a player coming off the bench and destroying teams with his pace. It worked so well at Ipswich.
Just a bad day at the office yesterday. But I'm sure if there is 1 man who can get a reaction out of the players it's NJ.7 -
All very passive yesterday when it was obvious that events were spiralling out of control. NJ needed to get a message on at 2-0 for Kaminski to go down with one of his ‘injuries’ - to at least try and break up the rhythm of Saints and get the players to the sideline to regroup / change formation. Once the next goal went in the game was done.3
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Noticed JRC got a bit of stick on here,ffs,the guy has hardly had a kick all season,comes on when we are getting hammered,and someone says he can see why he hasnt played.9
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TBF means ’to be fair’, doesn’t it? I think all the comments on Apter are about the most unfair I have read about a player on CL, but they are a result of NJ’s unfair positioning of him. Everyone is now saying that it was madness to play with two attacking minded wingers in defense but, and you can check this out, there was only one person saying that in the pre-match thread.letthegoodtimesroll said:
If you are saying he is a one-trick pony then TBF in a team game he probably isn’t worth the effort of persevering with and we are not them team for him, or anyone else for that matter.jimmymelrose said:
Maybe, but only because NJ doesn’t understand how to use him effectively.ct_addick said:Apter is done…out on loan in Jan…gone in the summer
If there is any ’one trick pony’ then it’s NJ himself. He only has one playing style and he is unable to adapt. I’ve said it before that I’m happy to play this way if we can stay up for the next 2-3 seasons but after that if given the choice I would rather change manager and keep a player of Apter’s profile than have to lose the player. After 3 years I would start to expect to actually enjoy watching us.
There are loads of players like Apter - attacking players who can’t be relied on to defend. NJ just can’t accept that but he seems to accept that some defenders can’t attack. Wing backs are full backs who are asked to attack but NJ thinks he can convert around the other way. He’s a good defensive coach but not an attacking one. A good coach is one who can understand all his players’ strengths and adapt his system to take advantage of all of those. If we used Apter to his strengths we would have none of this nonsense about Leaburn being lazy either, because he’s be getting the kind of service he needs.
Here are two questions to our older fans: what would NJ do with Powell, Peacock, Flanagan and Hales? How would Robert Lee fit in without Humphrey backing him up?
Another question: who are your favourite attacking players currently in The Premier League? Do you think that NJ could use them effectively? Am I being unfair, or is NJ being unfair on Apter? If Apter leaves because of NJ then it won’t be like Alfie May who stayed in League One. We’ve seen glimpses of his potential at this level, he’s very young and will get better.
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That was me, and my opinion isn’t just based on yesterday, he has been poor every time he has got minutes.thickandthin63 said:Noticed JRC got a bit of stick on here,ffs,the guy has hardly had a kick all season,comes on when we are getting hammered,and someone says he can see why he hasnt played.2 -
Think Doc been one of our best performers yesterday Doc and Coventry were alone in mid up against 4/5 Southampton players .. Carey was the one yesterday who was poor not Doc .. Carey was at fault for 3 of the goals he looked lost yesterdayAFKABartram said:
Devils advocate, Was he good enough last month when we were winning games and he was getting man of the match?cafcsinger said:There’s a reason Hull got shot of Docherty - no way near good enough, but he runs around a lot so people like him.6 -
That's how I saw it. They were simply faster, more accurate, and deadly in front if goal. And saying that, they could have been seven or eight up at the interval. And to cap it all, it lookedcas if Jones got cracked second half.KiwiValley said:I almost always watch a whole match regardless of how the game is going. I switched off after the third goal. It was like they were playing on fast forward. The difference in speed and accuracy was unreal. Frightening.
We knew there would be dats like this before the season started, but that was a shock given Saints start to the season. We need to put in a big performance at Stoke on Tuesday.
For what its worth, the ref was shite second half, but the damage was done by then.5 -
No from where I was sitting Doc was shit yesterday.RonnieMoore said:
Think Doc been one of our best performers yesterday Doc and Coventry were alone in mid up against 4/5 Southampton players .. Carey was the one yesterday who was poor not Doc .. Carey was at fault for 3 of the goals he looked lost yesterdayAFKABartram said:
Devils advocate, Was he good enough last month when we were winning games and he was getting man of the match?cafcsinger said:There’s a reason Hull got shot of Docherty - no way near good enough, but he runs around a lot so people like him.2 -
Watched the highlights again .. one big difference that stood out was that Southampton. Had a winger who created chance after chance unfortunately our winger again was invisible and created nothing of note … there lays our problem6
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Presume you're referring to Hernandez or Apter / Costello? - As they were our only "wingers" yesterdayRonnieMoore said:Watched the highlights again .. one big difference that stood out was that Southampton. Had a winger who created chance after chance unfortunately our winger again was invisible and created nothing of note … there lays our problem0 -
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RonnieMoore said:Watched the highlights again .. one big difference that stood out was that Southampton. Had a winger who created chance after chance unfortunately our winger again was invisible and created nothing of note … there lays our problem
Let in 5. It's our wingers fault for not creating. Ok.6 -
You tease FA...😂ForeverAddickted said:
Presume you're referring to Hernandez or Apter / Costello? - As they were our only "wingers" yesterdayRonnieMoore said:Watched the highlights again .. one big difference that stood out was that Southampton. Had a winger who created chance after chance unfortunately our winger again was invisible and created nothing of note … there lays our problem1 -
No idea what you could possibly mean mate...eastterrace6168 said:
You tease FA...😂ForeverAddickted said:
Presume you're referring to Hernandez or Apter / Costello? - As they were our only "wingers" yesterdayRonnieMoore said:Watched the highlights again .. one big difference that stood out was that Southampton. Had a winger who created chance after chance unfortunately our winger again was invisible and created nothing of note … there lays our problem
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1. Southampton schooled us. With the players they have, their season will have been a monumental failure if they don’t finish in the automatics.2. Not helped by injuries, of course, but the line up simply wasn’t right. Seeing both Apter and Hernandez on the lineup before kick off gave me flashbacks of Paul Smyth at RWB under Bowyer and, unfortunately, it was the same outcome. Jones was too slow in rectifying this, waiting until we were 4 down.
3. Leaburn was the only bright spark. Looked quicker and more mobile than usual, good with his feet, won his fair share of headers and he beat their backline during a number of duals on multiple occasions (basically single handedly). Stunned to read a few comments slating his performance.
4. Officiating today was awful. We didn’t lose because of them, but it’s so frustrating to see so much inconsistency when issuing cards and so many basic mistakes when issuing corners/goal kicks/offsides and getting in the way of players. Really, really poor.
5. As good as Southampton were on the pitch, I thought their support was the worst at The Valley this season, especially given they were 4-0 up after 20 minutes and it was a sold out end.7 -
After the first five minutes I was wondering a) how much NJ had their team watched prior to this, with the early pace they showed or b) if their manager changed his team to put runners in.
We were both hapless and hopeless with the first four goals, with the fifth to say 'we haven't gone away'!
Second half? The fact that the stadium was half empty with 10 minutes to go spoke volumes - then when they got a corner a minute into stoppage time, half of the Lower West got up and left. I stayed for the final whistle, then had the walk up Church Lane back to the car to forget about the whole shambles - including the 'usual' timed substitutions - not much thought of changing the format earlier?0 -
jimmymelrose said:
TBF means ’to be fair’, doesn’t it? I think all the comments on Apter are about the most unfair I have read about a player on CL, but they are a result of NJ’s unfair positioning of him. Everyone is now saying that it was madness to play with two attacking minded wingers in defense but, and you can check this out, there was only one person saying that in the pre-match thread.letthegoodtimesroll said:
If you are saying he is a one-trick pony then TBF in a team game he probably isn’t worth the effort of persevering with and we are not them team for him, or anyone else for that matter.jimmymelrose said:
Maybe, but only because NJ doesn’t understand how to use him effectively.ct_addick said:Apter is done…out on loan in Jan…gone in the summer
If there is any ’one trick pony’ then it’s NJ himself. He only has one playing style and he is unable to adapt. I’ve said it before that I’m happy to play this way if we can stay up for the next 2-3 seasons but after that if given the choice I would rather change manager and keep a player of Apter’s profile than have to lose the player. After 3 years I would start to expect to actually enjoy watching us.
There are loads of players like Apter - attacking players who can’t be relied on to defend. NJ just can’t accept that but he seems to accept that some defenders can’t attack. Wing backs are full backs who are asked to attack but NJ thinks he can convert around the other way. He’s a good defensive coach but not an attacking one. A good coach is one who can understand all his players’ strengths and adapt his system to take advantage of all of those. If we used Apter to his strengths we would have none of this nonsense about Leaburn being lazy either, because he’s be getting the kind of service he needs.
Here are two questions to our older fans: what would NJ do with Powell, Peacock, Flanagan and Hales? How would Robert Lee fit in without Humphrey backing him up?
Another question: who are your favourite attacking players currently in The Premier League? Do you think that NJ could use them effectively? Am I being unfair, or is NJ being unfair on Apter? If Apter leaves because of NJ then it won’t be like Alfie May who stayed in League One. We’ve seen glimpses of his potential at this level, he’s very young and will get better.
Except when Apter signed he will have been told exactly how he would be used. He will have been told that in possession he'll be playing as a right winger but out of possession he'll be expected to drop into the RWB position and do his share of defending. Apter gets really coddled on here, mostly because a lot of our fans seem to be completely unable to understand that formations are a thing for writing down the team sheet and nothing else. Teams are not as rigid as they were in the past and the shape evolves through phases of play. When we have the ball we play to Apter's strengths; Leaburn gets the service he gets because Apter's deliveries have been really, really bad since the Millwall game which has cost him his place in the team. Off the ball Apter has a different job to do and he just isn't doing it. The positioning is something that he needs to adapt to and that takes time, but his refusal to put his foot in and allow dangerous players to skip past him is something he can deal with now but he keeps not bothering. Just watch his pathetic attempt at stopping Manning running for the first goal or how little interest he shows in chasing back for the second. I was honestly a little surprised Jones didn't haul him off when he let Scienza run wrong side of him for a chance Azaz should have scored before the first goal went in.Apter isn't exactly Charlie Kirk but he's increasingly looking like a player who wants to do the fun side of the game but doesn't really fancy doing the nasty stuff, and that just won't get you anywhere at this level. Bottling out of challenges, refusing to give away fouls before a move develops, spotting the runner and then not really being arsed to react and get in front of them immediately are all key parts of the game that Apter was signed to play, this 'oh poor Rob Apter playing for the nasty man' stuff is bizarre and saying it's 'unfair' to ask a player to put a challenge in when we don't have the ball is just pathetic. He's 22, loads of time to adapt and add to his game but he's got to show a bit more willing to put his foot in and impose himself.7 -
I don’t know if we are in a position to bring quality players in January. If not I would bring back most of the loanees; even if they are not good enough to start it would give us some respite off the bench. None of these players are mugs, all hands to the pump.2
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The players out on loan are there for a reason, they aren’t good enough to be in the match day squad in the championship.pettgra said:I don’t know if we are in a position to bring quality players in January. If not I would bring back most of the loanees; even if they are not good enough to start it would give us some respite off the bench. None of these players are mugs, all hands to the pump.6 -
Yes, but he does seem to be a player who has long runs of form. When he joined us, he was woeful for months on end. So bad that I remember posting on here that I thought he was the worst player I've seen to wear our captain's armband. I still don't think I was wrong at the time, but soon after that his Mrs had a baby and suddenly, coincidence or not, his form skyrocketed. He then had a long spell were you couldn't fault him and he was integral to our promotion. We've now had a few games where he's looked distinctly sub-standard. Perhaps it's time for Mrs Doc to drop another sprog. If he doesn't get back to speed soon I'd think a replacement for him may well be the number one item on our January shopping list.AFKABartram said:
Devils advocate, Was he good enough last month when we were winning games and he was getting man of the match?cafcsinger said:There’s a reason Hull got shot of Docherty - no way near good enough, but he runs around a lot so people like him.3 -
I urge people to read this comment and then watch the highlights back to see just how many times a goal is scored by someone breezing past Docherty. LaughableRonnieMoore said:
Think Doc been one of our best performers yesterday Doc and Coventry were alone in mid up against 4/5 Southampton players .. Carey was the one yesterday who was poor not Doc .. Carey was at fault for 3 of the goals he looked lost yesterdayAFKABartram said:
Devils advocate, Was he good enough last month when we were winning games and he was getting man of the match?cafcsinger said:There’s a reason Hull got shot of Docherty - no way near good enough, but he runs around a lot so people like him.
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