Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
EFL Playoffs 25/26 (Saints booted out of final and given 4 point deduction - pg34)
Comments
-
Demoted to league 2, do me a favour! Spying on clubs training should be punished more harshly than clubs overspending by tens of millions, going into administration and shafting third party benefactors in doing so, allowing them to rebuild Scot free and spend how they want again? Really?ShootersHillGuru said:
I think if found guilty then they should be demoted to League Two and start the season with a sizeable points deduction. What they have done if it proven is out and out utter cheating of the highest order. If guilty they cannot be allowed to progress to The Premier League.MuttleyCAFC said:It works against Hull as they have to prepare to face Saints or Boro whereas those two only have to prepare to face Hull. But this also shows why Saints should be kicked out IMO. Preparation is important and there was interference in this from Saints which breached an important rule. I think if it comes out they have done this over the course of the season, they should also be relegated to league one and swap places with Oxford.5 -
Can’t they just immediately swap the Championship and League 2 finals around. It always used to be that way anyway.killerandflash said:
If it's Hull vs Boro, Tuesday would be awful for their fans.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
There is apparently a contingency plan in place for it to be moved to Tuesday 26th May.Henry Irving said:
What's it got to do with the Spanners?...oh, it's a big club called MFC.clive said:
There will be a final on the set date because there is too much money involved. Tickets, hospitality and of course TV for it not to.
Not really sure what moving it back 3 days will achieve, although i guess the clubs and 80k fans will need time to make new travel arrangements.2 -
Very often in football a club gets a punishment and you can feel sorry for the fans.
Firstly, the players who celebrated their goal using a binocular gesture should be fined for bringing the game into disrepute.
I’ve seen photos of several different Southampton fans with binoculars at the match as if this is all some big joke. Some of these fans are adults and others are kids under the responsibility of an adult. If they think it’s so funny, I’d like their team to get thrown out of the final, and then see a photo of them, most likely in the same seats watching Championship football next season.
Southampton, generally, don’t seem to be taking this seriously at all. I think Middlesbrough should be in the final and Southampton should compensate Hull City, and compensate Hull City fans if the match gets moved as a result.5 -
Well the punitive precedents for clubs overspending has been set and it’s not harsh enough but that boats sailed. Sending out spies to cheat is as far as I’m aware so far a unique crime and the punishment for that hasn’t been determined already. On that basis I’ll stick to my assertion that they should be demoted to division 2 and get a significant points deduction. They should also consider themselves lucky. I realise of course that The EFL will bottle it and Southampton if guilty of course will come away from it all smirking.sam3110 said:
Demoted to league 2, do me a favour! Spying on clubs training should be punished more harshly than clubs overspending by tens of millions, going into administration and shafting third party benefactors in doing so, allowing them to rebuild Scot free and spend how they want again? Really?ShootersHillGuru said:
I think if found guilty then they should be demoted to League Two and start the season with a sizeable points deduction. What they have done if it proven is out and out utter cheating of the highest order. If guilty they cannot be allowed to progress to The Premier League.MuttleyCAFC said:It works against Hull as they have to prepare to face Saints or Boro whereas those two only have to prepare to face Hull. But this also shows why Saints should be kicked out IMO. Preparation is important and there was interference in this from Saints which breached an important rule. I think if it comes out they have done this over the course of the season, they should also be relegated to league one and swap places with Oxford.0 -
Since my last post I’ve checked out the Southampton forum and I’m even more surprised by their arrogance regarding this. Their forum is awful generally in fact. The Middlesbrough forum on the other hand has interesting posts with clearly structured arguments. I advise you to take a look:
https://www.oneboro.co.uk/forum/topic/14123-spygate-what-will-the-efl-do/#comments
Edit: go immediately to about page 182.2 -
My only comment on this issue is we have no idea whether this practice is common place, rampant even, among clubs in general whether in the EPL or non league ....Who's to say or would admit to it ?
Southampton's patsy just happened to be "caught " .5 -
Quite impressed with the level of discussion on the Boro forum - very thoughtful posts for the most partjimmymelrose said:Since my last post I’ve checked out the Southampton forum and I’m even more surprised by their arrogance regarding this. Their forum is awful generally in fact. The Middlesbrough forum on the other hand has interesting posts with clearly structured arguments. I advise you to take a look:
https://www.oneboro.co.uk/forum/topic/14123-spygate-what-will-the-efl-do/#comments
Edit: go immediately to about page 182.2 -
If there's credible evidence that this was a regular occurrence from Southampton then surely there has to be serious doubts over whether Eckert will keep his job?
In terms of the spying on Middlesbrough i'm still of the opinion that given how the two games panned out, the spying had very little effect on the results. I suspect Southampton will try to argue this point given that they were pretty much battered in the first leg. It obviously doesn't excuse the spying but i can't think what else they can argue towards their case.0 -
Surprised there hasn't been more mention of this. The staff responsible were banned from football for a year
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Soccer_drone_spying_scandal0 -
I want to repeat that there is a specific rule against spying.
It is an underhand attempt to gain an edge, cheating is the usual term.
If Southampton did it badly, or didn’t gain much by doing it, so what?
The still apparently did it, and the word is they did it several times.
Boro v Hull is the uncommon sense solution, and a very substantial points deduction for Southampton next season. A monetary penalty is inappropriate, that would be the equivalent of a billionaire parking a Ferrari on a double yellow line for a couple of months and shrugging about the tickets covering the windscreen.
If anything tow Southampton away to the car pound of the Wessex Senior League.7 -
Sponsored links:
-
jose said:I want to repeat that there is a specific rule against spying.
It is an underhand attempt to gain an edge, cheating is the usual term.
If Southampton did it badly, or didn’t gain much by doing it, so what?
The still apparently did it, and the word is they did it several times.
Boro v Hull is the uncommon sense solution, and a very substantial points deduction for Southampton next season. A monetary penalty is inappropriate, that would be the equivalent of a billionaire parking a Ferrari on a double yellow line for a couple of months and shrugging about the tickets covering the windscreen.
If anything tow Southampton away to the car pound of the Wessex Senior League.
Agree with this. If a team field an ineligible player in a cup competition, they get booted out and whoever they beat is reinstated. Even if the player was crap. Even if it was just an admin error. Spying is blatantly cheating and breaking an established rule. Whether or not they got a benefit from it doesn't matter, the intention was to unfairly gain an advantage. I think they should be kicked out and replaced by Middlesbrough. It's not fair on the Saints fans, but then it wasn't fair on Wednesday, West Brom or Leicester fans when they got their points deductions.5 -
Proper mess, given Southampton seem to have all but admitted it's not just been the Boro game.
If they chuck them out and Hull get a walkover (thank goodness Hull beat Millwall, on that point), then Boro will appeal, but if it's been all season then Wrexham (and their expensive lawyers) could have a solid argument they should be in the playoffs, Millwall could say they'd have beaten Wrexham rather than Hull... if Boro are put in the final, and beat Hull, Hull could argue they'd prepared for Southampton and were at an unfair advantage.
Some arguments are more remote from the issue than others, but there's quite a few issues to think about for the EFL.
4 -
I don't think Wrexham have any involvement in this whatsoever. The EFL are obviously not going to bing them in and replay semi finals again, so if Southampton are kicked out it's either:North Lower Neil said:Proper mess, given Southampton seem to have all but admitted it's not just been the Boro game.
If they chuck them out and Hull get a walkover (thank goodness Hull beat Millwall, on that point), then Boro will appeal, but if it's been all season then Wrexham (and their expensive lawyers) could have a solid argument they should be in the playoffs, Millwall could say they'd have beaten Wrexham rather than Hull... if Boro are put in the final, and beat Hull, Hull could argue they'd prepared for Southampton and were at an unfair advantage.
Some arguments are more remote from the issue than others, but there's quite a few issues to think about for the EFL.
a) Middlesbrough play the final v Hull (likely)
b) Hull are promoted without a final (unlikely)0 -
Once upon a time German spys were shot.Chris_from_Sidcup said:If there's credible evidence that this was a regular occurrence from Southampton then surely there has to be serious doubts over whether Eckert will keep his job?
In terms of the spying on Middlesbrough i'm still of the opinion that given how the two games panned out, the spying had very little effect on the results. I suspect Southampton will try to argue this point given that they were pretty much battered in the first leg. It obviously doesn't excuse the spying but i can't think what else they can argue towards their case.
I would ban him from English football and at least fine Southampton heavy(millions) and championship football next season starting with -15. Points.1 -
Talk about Casey's Court, the wronged club, Middlesborough, ain't even allowed to contribute to the proceedings, stinks of a decision already taken, and the cheating Southampton will get a slap on the wrist and told not to be a naughty boy again, just pray Hull give them a bloody nose and send them back home with their tails between their legs...👌0
-
North Lower Neil said:Proper mess, given Southampton seem to have all but admitted it's not just been the Boro game.
If they chuck them out and Hull get a walkover (thank goodness Hull beat Millwall, on that point), then Boro will appeal, but if it's been all season then Wrexham (and their expensive lawyers) could have a solid argument they should be in the playoffs, Millwall could say they'd have beaten Wrexham rather than Hull... if Boro are put in the final, and beat Hull, Hull could argue they'd prepared for Southampton and were at an unfair advantage.
Some arguments are more remote from the issue than others, but there's quite a few issues to think about for the EFL.
I think if we hadn't sustained that confidence sapping home mauling by Southampton, we probably would have made 6th spot. Knowing the defeat was purely down to an 'intern' loitering in a tree in avery hill park would have prevented the complete restructuring of our game and subsequent 3 month collapse in form.11 -
Fine them a couple of million and give the money to Middlesbrough by way of compensation.
0 -
You don't think Boro might suggest that £2m pales in comparison to Premier League money given they'll try to argue that the spying cost them the game etc?blackpool72 said:Fine them a couple of million and give the money to Middlesbrough by way of compensation.0 -
It was their own lack of finishing that has cost them both second place, and the fact they couldn't beat Southampton in the first leg... Had amble opportunities to put the entire tie to bed in the first half at the Riverside.North Lower Neil said:
You don't think Boro might suggest that £2m pales in comparison to Premier League money given they'll try to argue that the spying cost them the game etc?blackpool72 said:Fine them a couple of million and give the money to Middlesbrough by way of compensation.0 -
Agree entirely BUT 2m fine is neither here nor there if you get to the PL and it's riches on the back of cheating. Personally I think whatever information they cleaned from spying didn't affect the result but they need to be severely punished to deter others in the future. Also if it were more than one instance then that's systematic cheating and an even more severe punishment is required.ForeverAddickted said:
It was their own lack of finishing that has cost them both second place, and the fact they couldn't beat Southampton in the first leg... Had amble opportunities to put the entire tie to bed in the first half at the Riverside.North Lower Neil said:
You don't think Boro might suggest that £2m pales in comparison to Premier League money given they'll try to argue that the spying cost them the game etc?blackpool72 said:Fine them a couple of million and give the money to Middlesbrough by way of compensation.2 -
Sponsored links:
-
Next time a club gets an intern to spy on opponents, they'll insist he uses cash wherever he goes, to reduce the evidence 😉0
-
True but it doesn't absolve cheatingForeverAddickted said:
It was their own lack of finishing that has cost them both second place, and the fact they couldn't beat Southampton in the first leg... Had amble opportunities to put the entire tie to bed in the first half at the Riverside.North Lower Neil said:
You don't think Boro might suggest that £2m pales in comparison to Premier League money given they'll try to argue that the spying cost them the game etc?blackpool72 said:Fine them a couple of million and give the money to Middlesbrough by way of compensation.1 -
I think we’ll all know by close of business tomorrow? I think (and hope) that Southampton will be kicked out, and there should be bans for whoever authorised the spying.1
-
PrincessFiona said:
True but it doesn't absolve cheatingForeverAddickted said:
It was their own lack of finishing that has cost them both second place, and the fact they couldn't beat Southampton in the first leg... Had amble opportunities to put the entire tie to bed in the first half at the Riverside.North Lower Neil said:
You don't think Boro might suggest that £2m pales in comparison to Premier League money given they'll try to argue that the spying cost them the game etc?blackpool72 said:Fine them a couple of million and give the money to Middlesbrough by way of compensation.Where did I say that it should?I'm just saying that Boro can complain all they like about the "spying" costing them a place in the Play-Off Final. But had they been able to finish the chances they created in the First Leg, this would be much less of a story, because the Play-Off Final would most likely be going ahead this weekend as planned between Hull / Middlesbrough. Thats what cost them the game.0 -
True, but doesn't absolve cheating...😉ForeverAddickted said:PrincessFiona said:
True but it doesn't absolve cheatingForeverAddickted said:
It was their own lack of finishing that has cost them both second place, and the fact they couldn't beat Southampton in the first leg... Had amble opportunities to put the entire tie to bed in the first half at the Riverside.North Lower Neil said:
You don't think Boro might suggest that £2m pales in comparison to Premier League money given they'll try to argue that the spying cost them the game etc?blackpool72 said:Fine them a couple of million and give the money to Middlesbrough by way of compensation.Where did I say that it should?I'm just saying that Boro can complain all they like about the "spying" costing them a place in the Play-Off Final. But had they been able to finish the chances they created in the First Leg, this would be much less of a story, because the Play-Off Final would most likely be going ahead this weekend as planned between Hull / Middlesbrough. Thats what cost them the game.0 -
Boro are considering suing for £20 Million, lost revenue from Prem fixtures etc .. 20 Mil is surely the least they will loseblackpool72 said:Fine them a couple of million and give the money to Middlesbrough by way of compensation.0 -
A fine of £2m wold be worth it if they were to beat Hull thoughPrincessFiona said:
True but it doesn't absolve cheatingForeverAddickted said:
It was their own lack of finishing that has cost them both second place, and the fact they couldn't beat Southampton in the first leg... Had amble opportunities to put the entire tie to bed in the first half at the Riverside.North Lower Neil said:
You don't think Boro might suggest that £2m pales in comparison to Premier League money given they'll try to argue that the spying cost them the game etc?blackpool72 said:Fine them a couple of million and give the money to Middlesbrough by way of compensation.0 -
I think the line of previous possible outcomes needs to be written off. How do we know Southampton didn’t spy on us at Sparrows before tearing us a new one at The Valley. Do we have a claim ? Of course not. It would need the season and all results involving Saints or maybe sinners might be more appropriate to be looked at. What does need addressing is their continued involvement in the playoffs which cannot be allowed. Boro should be reinstated and contest the final v Hull. That alone is not enough punishment though. I believe they ought to be relegated and receive a points deduction. Cheating in sport is inexcusable and where found should be harshly punished.North Lower Neil said:Proper mess, given Southampton seem to have all but admitted it's not just been the Boro game.
If they chuck them out and Hull get a walkover (thank goodness Hull beat Millwall, on that point), then Boro will appeal, but if it's been all season then Wrexham (and their expensive lawyers) could have a solid argument they should be in the playoffs, Millwall could say they'd have beaten Wrexham rather than Hull... if Boro are put in the final, and beat Hull, Hull could argue they'd prepared for Southampton and were at an unfair advantage.
Some arguments are more remote from the issue than others, but there's quite a few issues to think about for the EFL.5 -
This…ShootersHillGuru said:
I think the line of previous possible outcomes needs to be written off. How do we know Southampton didn’t spy on us at Sparrows before tearing us a new one at The Valley. Do we have a claim ? Of course not. It would need the season and all results involving Saints or maybe sinners might be more appropriate to be looked at. What does need addressing is their continued involvement in the playoffs which cannot be allowed. Boro should be reinstated and contest the final v Hull. That alone is not enough punishment though. I believe they ought to be relegated and receive a points deduction. Cheating in sport is inexcusable and where found should be harshly punished.North Lower Neil said:I’m Proper mess, given Southampton seem to have all but admitted it's not just been the Boro game.
If they chuck them out and Hull get a walkover (thank goodness Hull beat Millwall, on that point), then Boro will appeal, but if it's been all season then Wrexham (and their expensive lawyers) could have a solid argument they should be in the playoffs, Millwall could say they'd have beaten Wrexham rather than Hull... if Boro are put in the final, and beat Hull, Hull could argue they'd prepared for Southampton and were at an unfair advantage.
Some arguments are more remote from the issue than others, but there's quite a few issues to think about for the EFL.
it’s plain that this wasn’t an isolated incident, and yes ‘Boro should have been put through already, the delay is inexcusable…2 -
Rumours they will get a 3.5m fine and 6 point suspended deduction, seems very lenient to me.0
