Henry you do have one thing in commen with Saxondale. He has a really anoying neighbour who keeps popping over for a chat, but always ends up making himself look a complete tit.
[cite]Posted By: KillersBeard[/cite]
He knows that the owners of your club were actively trying to put us out of business in some fairy tale notion to merge both clubs.
As our fan base has recovered, so has their knowledge. The very fact that you cannot grasp what it might have been like to be ripped out of your spiritual home, with only the threat of extinction as a future and that you are unable, both then and know, to show some fellow supporters some sympathy for their plight, should give you some insight into our feelings both then and since.
And therein lies the rub. Your fans in general have always shoved the, 'we did you a favour' line down our throats with regards to our imprisonment in Surrey and failed to grasp that instead it may just have been down to uncle ron trying to extinguish our club from the planet, whilst making a profit into the bargain.
You guys were instead, quite happy to swallow the party line and treat us with contempt. Getting on the moral bandwagon now is I'm afraid too little, too late.
Sorry, but I disagree, I know there were many reports at the time of Ron trying to merge Charlton and Palace (or Wimbledon and Palace), but the Palace fans were against it, as much as Charlton were. Ron's interests weren't Palace's, they were only his own, most Palace fans knew it then, and they know it now.
In relation to your points about how you were received in Surrey, well sorry I don't know what you were doing going there, Selhurst is in SE25, maybe thats why you were upsetting the Surrey people. Seriously though, at the time you were lodging in Selhurst, I lived very close to the ground, and a lot of the locals, weren't happy about Charlton sharing the ground, as it meant there was football every week, instead of every other week, and weren't able to park outside there homes. I'm sure that if the worst were to happen to Palace, and we did lose our ground, and we had to share The Valley, your locals wouldn't be too happy about football every Saturday.
[cite]Posted By: KillersBeard[/cite]
He knows that the owners of your club were actively trying to put us out of business in some fairy tale notion to merge both clubs.
As our fan base has recovered, so has their knowledge. The very fact that you cannot grasp what it might have been like to be ripped out of your spiritual home, with only the threat of extinction as a future and that you are unable, both then and know, to show some fellow supporters some sympathy for their plight, should give you some insight into our feelings both then and since.
And therein lies the rub. Your fans in general have always shoved the, 'we did you a favour' line down our throats with regards to our imprisonment in Surrey and failed to grasp that instead it may just have been down to uncle ron trying to extinguish our club from the planet, whilst making a profit into the bargain.
You guys were instead, quite happy to swallow the party line and treat us with contempt. Getting on the moral bandwagon now is I'm afraid too little, too late.
I'm sure that if the worst were to happen to Palace, and we did lose our ground, and we had to share The Valley, your locals wouldn't be too happy about football every Saturday.
'Share' The Valley? I don't think there's much chance of that, do you?
Though I would love to see how many fans you took to each 'home' game.
[cite]Posted By: budgie[/cite]Mind you, if it was to happen, I'm sure we'd take more than you took to Selhurst. (Where's there a smiley when you want one?)
You'd have to put that in the context of average crowds in the late 80's (smiley thingey)
[cite]Posted By: sygonrima[/cite]Henry you do have one thing in commen with Saxondale. He has a really anoying neighbour who keeps popping over for a chat, but always ends up making himself look a complete tit.
LOL Sygonrina, nice one. Cue post from Matt, "I really don't understand why my neighbour hates me".
I love that line when the Palace fans trot it out whenever we beat them. Really does make me laugh.
I know the reasons and that's enough. I'm not your mummy or your school teacher Glaziers fan so I don't have to explain anything to you.
[cite]Posted By: KillersBeard[/cite]MH- "You guys haven't answered my questions - how come so many of you claim a personal grievance against Palace when so few of you bothered to make the one hour train journey when you played at Palace. If you believe everything you read here, then about 20,000 must have made their way to God's Acre every time charlton played there."
The very fact that you have to ask is evidence enough of our general dislike of your club. Before we left the Valley our crowds were only in the region of 6k, that despite having a significantly larger catchment potential but displays the general decline we suffered at the time. During our tenure at sellout it wasn't much better, but we hit an average of 11k in 89/90 thanks to Lennies miracle working. The 2k you seem so obsessed about were for matches such as the Full Members Cup.
I personally made the trip by Road to God's cesspit, but my Son did not as he was not born at the time. He has however been educated in our history as all fervent supporters are of every club. He knows for example of the abuse directed towards Charlton fans by locals as they made there way through the streets of Surrey to the back of Sainsbury's. He knows that the club officials of our landlords had no intention of making us feel welcome and they showed it. He knows that the owners of your club were actively trying to put us out of business in some fairy tale notion to merge both clubs.
As our fan base has recovered, so has their knowledge. The very fact that you cannot grasp what it might have been like to be ripped out of your spiritual home, with only the threat of extinction as a future and that you are unable, both then and know, to show some fellow supporters some sympathy for their plight, should give you some insight into our feelings both then and since.
Budgie- "I honestly can't understand the hatred, a lot of you feel towards Palace though, as one of the few things we do have in common, is a strong dislike towards Ron Noades. While I understand your feelings about him surely you can see that it was him, and not Crystal Palace that screwed you, and that he screwed us too, but for a lot longer period."
And therein lies the rub. Your fans in general have always shoved the, 'we did you a favour' line down our throats with regards to our imprisonment in Surrey and failed to grasp that instead it may just have been down to uncle ron trying to extinguish our club from the planet, whilst making a profit into the bargain.
You guys were instead, quite happy to swallow the party line and treat us with contempt. Getting on the moral bandwagon now is I'm afraid too little, too late.
all this don't care about charlton is a load of old bull, as soon as we were relegated against spurs my mobile phone exploded with piss taking messages from palace fans i know(shame on me) .... funnily enough they were all very quiet on friday night.... i couldn't be bothered to take the pee out of them , i did enough of that when we sent them muppets down....
they do care and it hurts them the last 10 years of relative success we've had... FACT
Addickted - apologies, I have only just had the chance to revert.
1. The bumpf SJ distributed when initiating the process of raising the capital to buy Selhurst makes reference of a 25 year lease; 2. The 2006 signed off accounts of Crystal Palace (2000) Limited, signed by the accountants Baker Tilly, state a) SJ has obtained control of the freehold and b) the threat of eviction from the ground has been resolved as a longer lease has been agreed;
Control of the freehold is key here. This is why I raised the issue regarding the division of votes for Uberior.
I take it that, instead of being the high-flying City property manager that Saxondale eluded too, given your last statement about the Land Registry, that you are a local council clerk?
Mortimor - don't put taking the piss about your relegation and a hard core rivalry in the same bracket. If you class ten years of relative success as hovering around the middle to lower end of the Premiership, building a lego ground that holds exactly 800 more than Selhurst and having employed Dowie 'to get one over us', then I pity you. We have won more than you in the last twenty years - FACT.
MCS - don't give me the Charlton sob story. I am well aware of what it is like to see my club on the edge of extinction, and I might add, during our time in administration Charlton were hardly benevolent. Indeed, picking up Matt Svensson on the cheap smacks of asset stripping and self interest, not the high-minded ideals you like to associate with your club.
Just face facts. You have suffered and we have suffered. The difference is that we don't have a massive chip on our shoulders and have moved on. I suggest you do the same.
[cite]Posted By: matt_himself[/cite]MCS - don't give me the Charlton sob story. I am well aware of what it is like to see my club on the edge of extinction, and I might add, during our time in administration Charlton were hardly benevolent. Indeed, picking up Matt Svensson on the cheap smacks of asset stripping and self interest, not the high-minded ideals you like to associate with your club.
Just face facts. You have suffered and we have suffered. The difference is that we don't have a massive chip on our shoulders and have moved on. I suggest you do the same.
Anyone else see me make a post on this thread giving 'my charlton sob story' apart from telling killersbeard that his post was good?
[cite]Posted By: matt_himself[/cite]
Just face facts. You have suffered and we have suffered. The difference is that we don't have a massive chip on our shoulders and have moved on. I suggest you do the same.
Matt, I think we've now got into petty point scoring again which is a shame.
If you and the majority of Palace fans are happy with the way that Jordan is running your club then great, I'm very happy for you. I suspect that many are not and the ownership/control of Selhurst Park is one if the reasons. If everything was hunky dory, why doesn't Jordan just buy the ground outright? I don't know the answer but the arrangements are certainly not straightforward.
We do have some experience of the Club and Ground being independently owned. If you look at some other clubs, for example Coventry, where they do not own the ground, the administrators have just been kept out of the door. Leeds, who do not own their ground, Brighton who's ground was imfamously sold, to name but a few. Maybe the arrangements are merely a complicated mortgage arrangements, or perhaps there's more to worry about?
[cite]Posted By: matt_himself[/cite]Addickted - apologies, I have only just had the chance to revert.
1. The bumpf SJ distributed when initiating the process of raising the capital to buy Selhurst makes reference of a 25 year lease;
2. The 2006 signed off accounts of Crystal Palace (2000) Limited, signed by the accountants Baker Tilly, state a) SJ has obtained control of the freehold and b) the threat of eviction from the ground has been resolved as a longer lease has been agreed;
Control of the freehold is key here. This is why I raised the issue regarding the division of votes for Uberior.
I take it that, instead of being the high-flying City property manager that Saxondale eluded too, given your last statement about the Land Registry, that you are a local council clerk?
Mortimor - don't put taking the piss about your relegation and a hard core rivalry in the same bracket. If you class ten years of relative success as hovering around the middle to lower end of the Premiership, building a lego ground that holds exactly 800 more than Selhurst and having employed Dowie 'to get one over us', then I pity you. We have won more than you in the last twenty years - FACT.
I don't really know why we've risen to the bait here.
After all, the Glaziers have won more than us in the last 20 years - FACT.
Is that more Prem titles than us, more FA Cups, League Cups and Championship titles?
European competition? More years in the Prem, perhaps?
Perhaps we should content ourselves with sitting in our 'Lego' ground, and celebrate the occasion yet again as our team outplay & outclass theirs?
Perhaps we'll be a division apart next season, as is now usual?
[cite]Posted By: matt_himself[/cite]Apologies MCS - I have had a long day.
You do not have a Charlton sob story and I unreservedly withdraw my comments.
Killersbeard on the other hand....
Matt ......If you have had a long day and still end up coming on here then you must be pretty stressed out. Go and have a bath and chill. Lifes too short. Youve got a tough game against Ipswich to focus on now and we are all excited about Sheff Wed. Hope you get your wish to renew your rivalry with Brighton in the near future.
North London Addick Jr - interesting comment. It is particurlarly interesting you revert to the 'stripey nigel mug' tag rather than disseminate what I am saying, which other are trying to do.
In my book that makes you a 'whinging clown trainspotter'. See, we can do it too.
By the way, I think people here are enjoying this - if they weren't I wouldn't be having the back-forth chat. I mean no harm, just looking for a bit of banter.
Bing, I am not point scoring, just illustrating why the charlton sob story doesn't wash with all of us.
Question for you - are you happy with the way Charlton are being run? And don't compare charlton to Palace in your answer.
Dowie, Reed, Hasselbaink, £10 million + losses in each of the past few years, lack of investment in the squad, the ground not actually being that big or, dare I say it, nice, being a selling club?
To me, it seems that all is not rosy at The Valley and that you could well be at the cusp of a decline.
[cite]Posted By: matt_himself[/cite]Bing, I am not point scoring, just illustrating why the charlton sob story doesn't wash with all of us.
Question for you - are you happy with the way Charlton are being run? And don't compare charlton to Palace in your answer.
Dowie, Reed, Hasselbaink, £10 million + losses in each of the past few years, lack of investment in the squad, the ground not actually being that big or, dare I say it, nice, being a selling club?
To me, it seems that all is not rosy at The Valley.
Yes. Is that clear enough for you? I'd rather have our board than your bloke anyday of the week.
Blimey it's like watching a car crash, I don't want to look but can't help myself. Matt you seem like an intelligent bloke so why keep reverting to the my "Dads bigger than yours", "we sing louder than you". Who cares....you outsung us on Friday?....great, well done....you love your club, we love ours. Fact is we don't like Palace, I don't care if you feel nothing for us, but the fact you have spent countless hours on here after a 'busy day', seems a tad contradictory. Charlton is a well run club and has been for a number of years now, bit of a blip last year but we'll bounce back sooner or later, how you can have the cheek to call our groung legoland absolutely astounds me especially after going to Selhurst early in the season.....what a hole! Still it's your hole...or is it, I'm confused now?
[cite]Posted By: Nug[/cite]Blimey it's like watching a car crash, I don't want to look but can't help myself. Matt you seem like an intelligent bloke so why keep reverting to the my "Dads bigger than yours", "we sing louder than you". Who cares....you outsung us on Friday?....great, well done....you love your club, we love ours. Fact is we don't like Palace, I don't care if you feel nothing for us, but the fact you have spent countless hours on here after a 'busy day', seems a tad contradictory. Charlton is a well run club and has been for a number of years now, bit of a blip last year but we'll bounce back sooner or later, how you can have the cheek to call our groung legoland absolutely astounds me especially after going to Selhurst early in the season.....what a hole! Still it's your hole...or is it, I'm confused now?
No...Selhurst Park isn't a hole. Selhurst Park is a Shithole
Whats up matt has your masked slipped the reason i call you a stripey mug is that i actually enjoyed your first few posts then boom you loose a game by getting totally overpowered and you resorted to the we sang louder than you, we dont hate you bollox, we helped you.
crock of shite fella now the pain of loosing is subsiding back you slither again to try to pick holes in others opinion of your club and postings.
it makes me larf that the pain was so obvious in your imediate postings after the game then you pretend that it didnt bother you the reason you are a strippey mug is that you would get more respect by admitting the whole charlton vs palrse consumes your whole season as you have to try to convince all that will listen that you dont care.
if i didnt care about somthing i wouldnt search out a rivals forum, join it and then come on a post bollox like you do your mask fell of days ago get over it and ove on try the tractor boys forums they might like you there
Nug - I needed a bit of a livening up after today and I have found it. I don't think I am reverting to 'my Dad's bigger', I am keen on challenging views and assisting others in gaining a new perspective, I am a kind of cyber Martin Luther King from Croydon, if you will.
The question is this: we as Palace have survived without owning the ground and without Premiership income, indeed being in administration for part of it, for the last decade. You state charlton are a well run club yet, last year you got relegated, got through three managers, became a selling club, apart from Friday which will probably be your biggest crowd of the season, gates were declining. I have seen on Charlton boards the criticism over team spending, season ticket promises and even Alan Pardew. Yet, when questionned by, shock horror, a Palace fan, you guys suddenly puff your chests out and pretend everything is hunky-dory.
I have been quite candid about Palace on here, and will continue to be. Are things as I want the at Palace? Of course not. Are things better with Simon Jordan or without him? Remember this is the man who has spent or guaranteed over £40million to Palace. That is some commitment. He saved us in 2000, has stood up for his beliefs, even when they probably cost us dearly (he refused to pay £125,000 in Agents fees to Tim Cahills representative, because he wanted that money for simply making one 'phone call to Palace) and has given us some very fond memories. I trust SJ over the ground as documents I have seen suggest that all is not as they seem. He has done well to bring in Neil Warnock but his greatest achievement could well be the money and time he has invested in our Academy. How many teams have such a rich crop of English talent coming through their ranks at the moment, which are homegrown as opposed to 'acquired'? Harry Redknapp commented on the strength of our Academy and the tlent of the players coming through.
Nothing in life is perfect and nobody is beyond criticism. Simon Jordan is no exception to this, but I am pleased and proud of what he done for Palace.
I am fantastically happy with the way the club is being run.
In May I will again get the opportunity to hear Mr Murray speak to a group of fans candidly and to take any questions asked. We get to meet Directors and players regularly at supporters groups. Our football stadium is as good as it has ever been in my lifetime and is secure. The season ticket prices are reasonable. The club is run on a financially sensible and sustainable basis.
The football is currently more exciting and more inconsistent which actually in a way means I look forward to a game more than I have for a while. We have a good squad of players and an excellent manager. We have attendances which are decent. Children where I live are happy to wear Charlton shirts alongside the usual display of Chelsea and Man U. We are near the top of the league that for most of my life we have been in (sometimes higher and sometimes lower). My kids have grown up supporting Charlton and really enjoy it. As in all groups of fans we have a few nutters but they are a tiny minority and overall wherever we go we are welcomed by other fans. We have an excellent training ground with plans for the future as we do with the Valley. We have a Supporters Director who is genuinely in touch with the fans and the board. We have this Forum where many humourous and football comments are exchanged. And I have many friends who are also fans to share all this with.
Yeah I think you could say that I am fantastically happy with the way the club is run.
Comments
A cow pat somewhere in the middle of a Surrey field.
Sorry, but I disagree, I know there were many reports at the time of Ron trying to merge Charlton and Palace (or Wimbledon and Palace), but the Palace fans were against it, as much as Charlton were. Ron's interests weren't Palace's, they were only his own, most Palace fans knew it then, and they know it now.
In relation to your points about how you were received in Surrey, well sorry I don't know what you were doing going there, Selhurst is in SE25, maybe thats why you were upsetting the Surrey people. Seriously though, at the time you were lodging in Selhurst, I lived very close to the ground, and a lot of the locals, weren't happy about Charlton sharing the ground, as it meant there was football every week, instead of every other week, and weren't able to park outside there homes. I'm sure that if the worst were to happen to Palace, and we did lose our ground, and we had to share The Valley, your locals wouldn't be too happy about football every Saturday.
'Share' The Valley? I don't think there's much chance of that, do you?
Though I would love to see how many fans you took to each 'home' game.
Mind you, if it was to happen, I'm sure we'd take more than you took to Selhurst. (Where's there a smiley when you want one?)
LOL Sygonrina, nice one. Cue post from Matt, "I really don't understand why my neighbour hates me".
I love that line when the Palace fans trot it out whenever we beat them. Really does make me laugh.
I know the reasons and that's enough. I'm not your mummy or your school teacher Glaziers fan so I don't have to explain anything to you.
Still waiting for you to show the publicly recorded 25 year lease on the ground. Especially as it's not recorded at the Land Registry.
that is a great post kb, top stuff
they do care and it hurts them the last 10 years of relative success we've had... FACT
1. The bumpf SJ distributed when initiating the process of raising the capital to buy Selhurst makes reference of a 25 year lease;
2. The 2006 signed off accounts of Crystal Palace (2000) Limited, signed by the accountants Baker Tilly, state a) SJ has obtained control of the freehold and b) the threat of eviction from the ground has been resolved as a longer lease has been agreed;
Control of the freehold is key here. This is why I raised the issue regarding the division of votes for Uberior.
I take it that, instead of being the high-flying City property manager that Saxondale eluded too, given your last statement about the Land Registry, that you are a local council clerk?
Mortimor - don't put taking the piss about your relegation and a hard core rivalry in the same bracket. If you class ten years of relative success as hovering around the middle to lower end of the Premiership, building a lego ground that holds exactly 800 more than Selhurst and having employed Dowie 'to get one over us', then I pity you. We have won more than you in the last twenty years - FACT.
Just face facts. You have suffered and we have suffered. The difference is that we don't have a massive chip on our shoulders and have moved on. I suggest you do the same.
Anyone else see me make a post on this thread giving 'my charlton sob story' apart from telling killersbeard that his post was good?
I couldnt give 2 shites about your team
fact you remain inferior on the playing surface
and any team that averages 15-16 k at home in this league with catchment area you have doesnt deserve any teams respect.
in fact you are just another stripey mug who showed his true colours on here
You do not have a Charlton sob story and I unreservedly withdraw my comments.
Killersbeard on the other hand....
Matt, I think we've now got into petty point scoring again which is a shame.
If you and the majority of Palace fans are happy with the way that Jordan is running your club then great, I'm very happy for you. I suspect that many are not and the ownership/control of Selhurst Park is one if the reasons. If everything was hunky dory, why doesn't Jordan just buy the ground outright? I don't know the answer but the arrangements are certainly not straightforward.
We do have some experience of the Club and Ground being independently owned. If you look at some other clubs, for example Coventry, where they do not own the ground, the administrators have just been kept out of the door. Leeds, who do not own their ground, Brighton who's ground was imfamously sold, to name but a few. Maybe the arrangements are merely a complicated mortgage arrangements, or perhaps there's more to worry about?
I don't really know why we've risen to the bait here.
After all, the Glaziers have won more than us in the last 20 years - FACT.
Is that more Prem titles than us, more FA Cups, League Cups and Championship titles?
European competition? More years in the Prem, perhaps?
Perhaps we should content ourselves with sitting in our 'Lego' ground, and celebrate the occasion yet again as our team outplay & outclass theirs?
Perhaps we'll be a division apart next season, as is now usual?
Matt ......If you have had a long day and still end up coming on here then you must be pretty stressed out. Go and have a bath and chill. Lifes too short. Youve got a tough game against Ipswich to focus on now and we are all excited about Sheff Wed. Hope you get your wish to renew your rivalry with Brighton in the near future.
In my book that makes you a 'whinging clown trainspotter'. See, we can do it too.
By the way, I think people here are enjoying this - if they weren't I wouldn't be having the back-forth chat. I mean no harm, just looking for a bit of banter.
Question for you - are you happy with the way Charlton are being run? And don't compare charlton to Palace in your answer.
Dowie, Reed, Hasselbaink, £10 million + losses in each of the past few years, lack of investment in the squad, the ground not actually being that big or, dare I say it, nice, being a selling club?
To me, it seems that all is not rosy at The Valley and that you could well be at the cusp of a decline.
Yes. Is that clear enough for you? I'd rather have our board than your bloke anyday of the week.
No...Selhurst Park isn't a hole. Selhurst Park is a Shithole
crock of shite fella now the pain of loosing is subsiding back you slither again to try to pick holes in others opinion of your club and postings.
it makes me larf that the pain was so obvious in your imediate postings after the game then you pretend that it didnt bother you the reason you are a strippey mug is that you would get more respect by admitting the whole charlton vs palrse consumes your whole season as you have to try to convince all that will listen that you dont care.
if i didnt care about somthing i wouldnt search out a rivals forum, join it and then come on a post bollox like you do your mask fell of days ago get over it and ove on try the tractor boys forums they might like you there
The question is this: we as Palace have survived without owning the ground and without Premiership income, indeed being in administration for part of it, for the last decade. You state charlton are a well run club yet, last year you got relegated, got through three managers, became a selling club, apart from Friday which will probably be your biggest crowd of the season, gates were declining. I have seen on Charlton boards the criticism over team spending, season ticket promises and even Alan Pardew. Yet, when questionned by, shock horror, a Palace fan, you guys suddenly puff your chests out and pretend everything is hunky-dory.
I have been quite candid about Palace on here, and will continue to be. Are things as I want the at Palace? Of course not. Are things better with Simon Jordan or without him? Remember this is the man who has spent or guaranteed over £40million to Palace. That is some commitment. He saved us in 2000, has stood up for his beliefs, even when they probably cost us dearly (he refused to pay £125,000 in Agents fees to Tim Cahills representative, because he wanted that money for simply making one 'phone call to Palace) and has given us some very fond memories. I trust SJ over the ground as documents I have seen suggest that all is not as they seem. He has done well to bring in Neil Warnock but his greatest achievement could well be the money and time he has invested in our Academy. How many teams have such a rich crop of English talent coming through their ranks at the moment, which are homegrown as opposed to 'acquired'? Harry Redknapp commented on the strength of our Academy and the tlent of the players coming through.
Nothing in life is perfect and nobody is beyond criticism. Simon Jordan is no exception to this, but I am pleased and proud of what he done for Palace.
In May I will again get the opportunity to hear Mr Murray speak to a group of fans candidly and to take any questions asked. We get to meet Directors and players regularly at supporters groups. Our football stadium is as good as it has ever been in my lifetime and is secure. The season ticket prices are reasonable. The club is run on a financially sensible and sustainable basis.
The football is currently more exciting and more inconsistent which actually in a way means I look forward to a game more than I have for a while. We have a good squad of players and an excellent manager. We have attendances which are decent. Children where I live are happy to wear Charlton shirts alongside the usual display of Chelsea and Man U. We are near the top of the league that for most of my life we have been in (sometimes higher and sometimes lower). My kids have grown up supporting Charlton and really enjoy it. As in all groups of fans we have a few nutters but they are a tiny minority and overall wherever we go we are welcomed by other fans. We have an excellent training ground with plans for the future as we do with the Valley. We have a Supporters Director who is genuinely in touch with the fans and the board. We have this Forum where many humourous and football comments are exchanged. And I have many friends who are also fans to share all this with.
Yeah I think you could say that I am fantastically happy with the way the club is run.