Matt, if you want me to elaborate. Yes I am extremely happy about the people who run our club. I do think the Board made mistakes last year. The appointment of Dowie being the main one. The board have at least admitted this which is refreshing.
As for the losses, well these are facts of life for FAPL clubs and were largely incurred in trying to stay in the FAPL long enough to get to the additional revenues which came on stream this season. Unfortunately this failed but they have ensured an exit strategy was available for this eventuality. The club has had to knock out over 50% of its cost base in the last 9 months in order to survive the drop and invest in some new players.
We have gone from a derelict ground with no structures worth saving to a 27,000 seater modern stadium, and had to build a team on and off the pitch. We have just come off the most successful period in our clubs history since the 1950's, we have a supporter director (known to you as Saxondale) elected by ST holders to the board, and an award winning community trust organisation. We also have some great youngsters coming through again after a few lean years.
There is no getting away from the fact that we wish to be back in the FAPL and also that it's difficult to recover from being several years in the Prem without falling right through the floor like many before us. I believe that our existing board may well need to secure some additional capital if we don't go up this season - this is a fact of life but our proflle as a family orientated well run club, will help us provided that the current shareholders don't over-value the club.
This group of Directors led by Richard Murray are far and away the best group we've ever had and I have as much faith in them as any outsider could have.
"last year you got relegated, got through three managers, became a selling club, apart from Friday which will probably be your biggest crowd of the season, gates were declining. I have seen on Charlton boards the criticism over team spending, season ticket promises and even Alan Pardew."
Matt, I'll bite. Sure we got relegated after a number of years in the Premier League where we performed incredibly against all expectations for a long time. Definitely made some mistakes with managers, Dowie being the obvious one, Les Reed had been a great servant to the club and without any great candidates out there I guess the board trusted him, didn't go well, Pardew became available and they acted quickly, unfortunately 6 months of damage was too much to turn around. What club apart from the Big Four isn't a selling club and apart from maybe Luke Young and Darren Bent good riddance to all the others and we made a lot of money on those two good business for a "small"club like us. Think Scannel or whatever his name is won't be off before he's learned to drive? Gates declining I think we've averaged over 22,000 this season what club wouldn't have a dip in attendance after the Prem, what's your average gate? Don't all fans have a moan about the manager, board players, at times, isn't that what being a fan is all about.
Anyway good luck to you, you obviously love your club, but for the life of me I still can't get the Legoland comment that just doesn't hold up, if it was the Ricoh Arena or something maybe.....
I am glad to here you are happy with your club - if you want to hear the opposite of that, talk to the last few Bermondsey Neanderthal fans.
I am going to leave it here for a while - I genuinely do not wish to rub anyone up the wrong way or get into a needless war of petty insults. I have enjoyed myself a bit too much, and I know that sometimes I have the ability to wind people up a bit too much with smart arse comments. Therefore, I will depart and leave you guys to yourselves.
It has been a blast people. Well done for Friday - you are definately "Number One in South London" on the pitch.
Who knows, Maybe we will meet again during the Play-offs.
Henry - I apologise if the 'Saxondale' jibes came across as childish. Do me a favour though - try to talk to Palace folk like they are people rather than something you've scrapped off your shoe. Give a little, get a little.
[cite]Posted By: matt_himself[/cite]The question is this: we as Palace have survived without owning the ground and without Premiership income, indeed being in administration for part of it, for the last decade. You state charlton are a well run club yet, last year you got relegated, got through three managers, became a selling club, apart from Friday which will probably be your biggest crowd of the season, gates were declining. I have seen on Charlton boards the criticism over team spending, season ticket promises and even Alan Pardew. Yet, when questionned by, shock horror, a Palace fan, you guys suddenly puff your chests out and pretend everything is hunky-dory.
I don't think you will find a single CAFC fan who claims the board didn't fuck up last year, however that's all it was, a mistake. The club has still been excellently run by our current board, many clubs look at Charlton as the "perfectly run club" so your claims are a little silly. Yes we over spent, it was an attempt to push the club forwards, it didn't work, mainly due to the incompetance of Dowie but as a Palace fan I'm sure you already know all about that.
Our gates are declining yet I'd imagine our smallest league crowd this season is higher than your largest, no, not a fact, an assumption. Also how can we not be happy with the promise of a free season ticket.
[cite]Posted By: matt_himself[/cite]I am glad to here you are happy with your club - if you want to hear the opposite of that, talk to the last few Bermondsey Neanderthal fans.
I am going to leave it here for a while - I genuinely do not wish to rub anyone up the wrong way or get into a needless war of petty insults. I have enjoyed myself a bit too much, and I know that sometimes I have the ability to wind people up a bit too much with smart arse comments. Therefore, I will depart and leave you guys to yourselves.
It has been a blast people. Well done for Friday - you are definately "Number One in South London" on the pitch.
Who knows, Maybe we will meet again during the Play-offs.
Henry - I apologise if the 'Saxondale' jibes came across as childish. Do me a favour though - try to talk to Palace folk like they are people rather than something you've scrapped off your shoe. Give a little, get a little.
Matt, you ended on a good note mate. We all love our own clubs and thats why we come on these boards sounding off, even I can look at things sometimes with rose-tinted spectacles. Don't worry, I know and my fellow Addicks have had the decency to point that out sometimes. Best of luck at Ipswich tomorrow. A draw would suit us...:-)
Its all relative though isnt it Matt and I think thats the point most people having been trying to make on here.....
20 years ago we were in a whole world of pain with no stadium to call our own, poor journey men players expected to keep us up, portacabins for admin blocks. Whilst you were being described as the team of the 80's / 90's
Now look at us! Weve spent 8 of the past 11 seasons in the top flight (with the other 3 being a Playoff win, a Championship season and this season). A record that Palace would love to have. Constant growth on and off the pitch. We own a modern(ish) stadium with planning permission in place to extend to 40k, own a modern training facility etc.
Yes we have had to sell the likes of Parker and Bent, but then again who doesnt have to sell when the bigger clubs come knocking? Berbatov would jump at Man U if offered......
So you ask if we are happy with CAFC? We'll I'd say that relatively no other club in England has experienced to success that CAFC has done over the past 20 years. We've gone from a club with no future to a club with a future.
You are now a club that doesnt own its own ground, lease fast running out meaning higher costs, falling gates, need to sell what little playing assets you have, loss of parachute payments.......For you the future might be Orange, but its not that bright fella.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]all this don't care about charlton is a load of old bull, as soon as we were relegated against spurs my mobile phone exploded with piss taking messages from palace fans i know(shame on me) .... funnily enough they were all very quiet on friday night.... i couldn't be bothered to take the pee out of them , i did enough of that when we sent them muppets down....
they do care and it hurts them the last 10 years of relative success we've had... FACT
[cite]Posted By: matt_himself[/cite]
Mortimor - don't put taking the piss about your relegation and a hard core rivalry in the same bracket. If you class ten years of relative success as hovering around the middle to lower end of the Premiership, building a lego ground that holds exactly 800 more than Selhurst and having employed Dowie 'to get one over us', then I pity you. We have won more than you in the last twenty years - FACT.
i didn't claim anything about hard core rivalry matt , i pointed out palace DO CARE about what charlton do , we took the pee out of you just as you would've taken the pee out of us if you relegated us . personally i have no 'hard core' rivalry with palace but i DO CARE what they get up to cos i like to laugh at the demise of such clubs as millsmall, leeds and palace but i'm a bitter football fan who enjoys other teams suffering;-)
i would say relative success would be holding your position in the top flight for 7 consecutive seasons, have palace ever achieved that???
we have historically/factually been a bigger and better club than palace based on 26 seasons of top flight english football compared to your 13 and a highest average crowd of 40,216 compared to palace's 30,167. with a highest top flight finish of 2nd compared to palaces 3rd and 1 fa cup WON compared to palaces big fat zero i think you'll find these are the FACTS that mean my clubs better than yours ner ner ner ner ner ;-)
[quote][cite]Posted By: Gump[/cite]If Jordan was Charlton's Chairman, I'd be very embaressed...
No class, no dignity, no style.[/quote]
Have to disagree with you here, you may not like his style, but he certainly has it, even if it his own.
Jordan has got a very big mouth, and sometimes he can be very embarrasing, but he does sometimes speak a lot of sense. The problem is he doesn't care what other people think, and he will dare to say what a lot of people, particularly the average football fan thinks.
One thing I am sorry about, is that he no longer does his column in the Observer, some were strange, but the majority were very good, and applauded by many people including some fans of Charlton.
You should read some of the Palace forums, re there opinion of Mr Murray.
and every week (thats every week) be it in the paper or on the radio he gave it BillyBigBollox about Charlton. But of course uTwats dont care about us doyou ?
He is a wankerOf the first order and fits in well with the rest of u sad Surrey nothings.
Like i give 2 f**ks what Palarse think of Murray.
Goldberg thats Goldberg " id like as many Charlton to attend this game as we need the money " still we only took 9,000 and yawnnnnnnnnnnnnn won 1 nil. Same old same old. Guess that didnt happen in your virtual twlight Surrey shithole world either.
[cite]Posted By: matt_himself[/cite]Addickted - apologies, I have only just had the chance to revert.
1. The bumpf SJ distributed when initiating the process of raising the capital to buy Selhurst makes reference of a 25 year lease;
2. The 2006 signed off accounts of Crystal Palace (2000) Limited, signed by the accountants Baker Tilly, state a) SJ has obtained control of the freehold and b) the threat of eviction from the ground has been resolved as a longer lease has been agreed;
Control of the freehold is key here. This is why I raised the issue regarding the division of votes for Uberior.
I take it that, instead of being the high-flying City property manager that Saxondale eluded too, given your last statement about the Land Registry, that you are a local council clerk?
Matt,
Oh dear oh dear. There are none so blind as those who won't see.
1) In trying to raise the money to buy the ground off Kemsley, Jordan has resulted in a piss poor attempt at a sale and lease back agreement. Basically, you buy the ground for me and I'll gaurantee an income of 1m PA for a 25 year lease of the ground. There were NO, REPEAT NO, takers for this generous offer. Hence you only have 28 months left of your tenancy at SP.
2) The signed off 2006 accounts (you know the ones, 3 month late at Company's House) are a marvellous read.
"The Club have resolved it's tenancy position and will now look to develop the stadium over the medium term". Like the "Reunited" merchandise Jordan flogged, this is not true in any sense of the word.
"It is the current Directors view that the market value of the playing squad is 22m" - MWAHAHHAAA
Charlton - as multi million pound spenders obviously, would struggle to find the following funds to buy the following players that Jordan bought in 2006. a) Kuqi - 2.5m; b) Fat Ifill 750k; c) Scowcroft 500k; d) Fletcher 400k.
Paragraph 4, 5 and 7 of the audiors report mentions Jordan securing the Freehold of Selhurst. That is not true. The freehold of SP is registered to SP Ltd - and Jordan has NO controlling interest in that Company - please see my earlier posts. Indeed the tangible fixed assets were 1,123,767 compared to ours of 36,857,000 for the same acoounting period. I know Selhurst is a shithole but surely it's worth more than 1.1m?
It's all smoke and mirrors with Jordan - and you know it.
So rather than insulting my intelligence why don't you come back with some FACTS? Where, on public record (as you highlighted) does it say there is a 25 year lease on the ground? You are insinuating that Jordan is involved in the 'background' of UBERIOR and yet the only recorded voting rights are with Kemsley. Perhaps Jordan is involved with this mysterious PHL? Who knows - but you're clutching at straws if you believe he has controlling interest over the freehold. If he had, why is he busy trying to tout round a sale and leaseback of SP?
Isn't it funny how a local council clerk can know more about the financing and ownership of your Club than an obvious ITK fan?
[cite]Posted By: matt_himself[/cite]Bing, I am not point scoring, just illustrating why the charlton sob story doesn't wash with all of us.
Question for you - are you happy with the way Charlton are being run? And don't compare charlton to Palace in your answer.
Dowie, Reed, Hasselbaink, £10 million + losses in each of the past few years, lack of investment in the squad, the ground not actually being that big or, dare I say it, nice, being a selling club?
To me, it seems that all is not rosy at The Valley and that you could well be at the cusp of a decline.
Am I happy with the way Charlton are being run? Yes, we are solvent, we own our own ground and training ground and having gotten rid of some of the journeymen Premiership footballers (JFH, Rommedahl, Faye etc) and sold some of those like Darren Bent and Luke Young and have invested in a number of young players so I think the future is bright - at least I can see some light at the end of the tunnel.
Remember Palace and Charlton are only local rivals - and the rivalry is like two bald men fighting over a comb, our real competition is mutual - it's the insanity of the football industry where agents pick up six figure sums for making a few phone calls, and where players are out of our reach because they can be squad players at several times the remuneration that we smaller teams cannot afford. Whether we like it or not our board do not have the bottomless pockets of many of those who now own Premiership and even CCC clubs and so we have to cut our cloth accordingly. Under the present circumstances I'd sooner Charlton were a yo-yo team who brought players on and ducked and dived a bit in the transfer market, discovering the odd gem here and there, than went down the death or glory route and mortgaged ourselves up to the hilt to chase success. Who pays for that and for over paid players anyway? Ultimately it's us - through Sky subscriptions, higher ticket prices, overpriced merchandise and the like.
Are we on the cusp of a decline?...Well last year was a pretty wretched season for us - our two best players Darren Bent and Andy Reid were injured for long portions of it, while Marcus Bent did seem to score heavily, but only off the park. And yes we made a mistake with the appointment of Dowie and then Les Reed. By the time Pardew came on board it was perhaps too late and he didn't have the players to work with as a result of those we wanted being out of our reach and those he was left with simply not consistently good enough for the Premiership. Hence relegation might actually be a blessing in disguise, the rubbish has gone, new players have arrived and young players who Curbs and Pards couldn't trust in the Premiership are getting regular runs in the team - like Youga and Basey. One bad season after several good ones in a competitive league spelt relegation, whether that relegation will be disastrous as at say Leeds, or will be a blip remains to be seen. A new squad is coming together, but on the pitch consistency and adapting to a different less cultered style of football has been our problem. During the January transfer window we added three strong seasoned players at CCC level in Lee Cook, Greg Halford and Andy Gray, while losing only Andy Reid, we may even get Scott Sinclair on loan. Come the end of the season I think we'll be in the playoffs at the very least, whether we go up is moot, but in a weak league our slip-ups aren't being penalised as they might have in previous years - it's a good thing to have luck on your side.
Yes Charlton are a selling club, whether we like it or not that's the reality, but in the days of the 80s and 90s we sold players through necessity, simply to keep ourselves afloat, that isn't the case now, as with the sales of Parker and Darren Bent we can afford to hold off until serious money is on the table and all ambitious footballers should never be prevented from playing at a higher level. To compare with Palace I think we are stronger in just about every aspect, the legoland stadium you deride is modern and needs only extending and that will happen when the money and support is there to justify another 13,000 seats. If it doesn't happen and we stay at our 27K capacity then fine, no major money needs to be spent. However, looking at Selhurst that ground needs a total revamp, four mismatched crumbling stands that are overdue for being pulled down and rebuilt - and that's just to stand still, where will the money come from for that? Simon Jordan is looking for investors to buy the freehold, which must be the first priority, as he hasn't got the money for that let alone renovating the stadium I'd be worried. His game plan must be - either find a rich investor, or get into the premiership and take the £30m for finishing last to pay for everything - right now both scenarios look equally unlikely.
[quote][cite]Posted By: matt_himself[/cite]Apologies MCS - I have had a long day.
You do not have a Charlton sob story and I unreservedly withdraw my comments.
Killersbeard on the other hand....[/quote]
You - "You guys haven't answered my questions, how come so many of you claim a personal grievance against Palace"
budgie - "I honestly can't understand the hatred, a lot of you feel towards Palace though".
So you ask for reasons and I give you a genuine personal account of what happened and why, as a result, feelings towards your club run so high with Charlton fans and you come back with, "Sob story".
As I said before, your club, your chairman and your fans have had ample opportunity to state that you understand why we disliked the six years at 'sh' so much, why we could never call it our home, why we saw it as a stepping stone to our demise and that we were actually spot on about uncle ron as you have since found out.
But instead and still, we get, 'sob story', 'we did you a favour' and all you've done is to replace your blind faith in noades with your blind faith in jordan.
And you wonder why?
There are none so blind as those that can, but will not see.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]and every week (thats every week) be it in the paper or on the radio he gave it BillyBigBollox about Charlton. But of course uTwats dont care about us doyou ?
He is a wankerOf the first order and fits in well with the rest of u sad Surrey nothings.
Calm down mate, you'll have a heart attack if you carry on like that.
As I posted earlier, I certainly do care about you as rivals, I don't hate Charlton, far from it, I admire the role model, and hope for Palace to be able to emulate it.
I'm just pleased to have found a Charlton site, where the majority of posters can talk reasonably , and respect each others opinions. However just as on the Palace site's there's always the occasional person who really is only happy, when they're having a rant.
budgie - "I honestly can't understand the hatred, a lot of you feel towards Palace though".[/b]
As I said before, your club, your chairman and your fans have had ample opportunity to state that you understand why we disliked the six years at 'sh' so much, why we could never call it our home, why we saw it as a stepping stone to our demise and that we were actually spot on about uncle ron as you have since found out. And you wonder why?
There are none so blind as those that can, but will not see.[/quote]
Maybe you are right, I must admit I used to have a hatred of Ron Noades, for all the things he did to my club, but time has healed a lot of that, and I now just have a dislike of the man. I certainly wouldn't fancy ground sharing, and having to commute that distance every other week, but I do find it irrational the hatred vented at Palace fans who gained nothing from your time at Selhurst. In fact the only thing Palace fans got from it, was ridicule from opposing fans who reminded us, we no longer had exclusive rights to Selhurst.
Rant ? rant no mate just dont give a f**k what Palarse think. You gained nothing ? so we stayed at the Sellout Park guest house for free did we ?
Irational hatred ? no mate you try geting the piss taken out of you for years by a bunch of SurreyTossers and being treated like shit every game by YOUR CLUB.
It would so very very very funny for you to have to share withyour big rivals Brighton.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Rant ? rant no mate just dont give a f**k what Palarse think. You gained nothing ? so we stayed at the Sellout Park guest house for free did we ? [/quote]
No, but the only person to gain was Ron Noades.
As for sharing with Brighton, well it looks like it'll be a nice ground when its finished, it'd be a bit of a distance though, think I'd prefer the Emirates.
I would like to say thanks to the Palace team coach which kindly waited until I had left the pub before driving up Floyd Road past me where I could give my appreciation to them in person around 11pm.
I do hope that you continue to post in such a way that i can actually enjoy reading and dont go jumping on the Matthimself way of just trying to belittle those who's opinions differ to his after starting off so well after all it only all arose to that level after we had won, his mask beagn to slip you could say
If yu do i am sure you will find all of us accomodating as MH has only managed to prove what most footie fans know already and that is
you are better off posting on your own site if you dont want to come across as arogant and ignorant to others.
[quote][cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Budgie
I do hope that you continue to post in such a way that i can actually enjoy reading and dont go jumping on the Matthimself way of just trying to belittle those who's opinions differ to his after starting off so well after all it only all arose to that level after we had won, his mask beagn to slip you could say [/quote]
Thanks nla, its good to find an away site where most responses are friendly, and you can have a decent exchange of views.
In fairness to MH, I think he came in peace, but the result probably meant more to him than he thought.
Also, its been quite informative, and I have found some of the info re the ground issues very interesting.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite][quote][cite]
So it's been informative. Does that mean you won't be saying "I don't understand why Charlton fans dislike Palace so much" anymore?[/quote][/quote]
Actually, I meant the Selhurst Park ground issues.
As to the "I don't understand why Charlton fans dislike Palace so much" issue, all I can really say, is that I can understand a dislike for Palace because of the ground sharing, but the hatred shown by some is a little disturbing. I know several Charlton fans, and there is a lot of banter exchanged, however I know that they certainly don't hate Palace fans.
So it's been informative. Does that mean you won't be saying "I don't understand why Charlton fans dislike Palace so much" anymore?
Actually, I meant the Selhurst Park ground issues.
As to the "I don't understand why Charlton fans dislike Palace so much" issue, all I can really say, is that I can understand a dislike for Palace because of the ground sharing, but the hatred shown by some is a little disturbing. I know several Charlton fans, and there is a lot of banter exchanged, however I know that they certainly don't hate Palace fans.
Fair enough. I'm sure you feel the same way about Brighton fans. Is the "hatred" of them any more rational or less disturbing especially as it is based on just a few games in the 1970s.
For the record I don't hate any Palace fans although I do have a disdain for those that bleat on and on about their indifference, claim that "we saved you" or who call me a "moron". : -)
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite][quote] Fair enough. I'm sure you feel the same way about Brighton fans.[/cite][/quote]
Probably not any more, don't know why, either I'm getting older, or the fact we don't play them much anymore.
Hopefully when they sort there ground issues, they'll rise up the leagues again, and we can renew our rivalry, although I'm sure you'd prefer us to sink down the leagues, to meet them.
Comments
As for the losses, well these are facts of life for FAPL clubs and were largely incurred in trying to stay in the FAPL long enough to get to the additional revenues which came on stream this season. Unfortunately this failed but they have ensured an exit strategy was available for this eventuality. The club has had to knock out over 50% of its cost base in the last 9 months in order to survive the drop and invest in some new players.
We have gone from a derelict ground with no structures worth saving to a 27,000 seater modern stadium, and had to build a team on and off the pitch. We have just come off the most successful period in our clubs history since the 1950's, we have a supporter director (known to you as Saxondale) elected by ST holders to the board, and an award winning community trust organisation. We also have some great youngsters coming through again after a few lean years.
There is no getting away from the fact that we wish to be back in the FAPL and also that it's difficult to recover from being several years in the Prem without falling right through the floor like many before us. I believe that our existing board may well need to secure some additional capital if we don't go up this season - this is a fact of life but our proflle as a family orientated well run club, will help us provided that the current shareholders don't over-value the club.
This group of Directors led by Richard Murray are far and away the best group we've ever had and I have as much faith in them as any outsider could have.
Matt, I'll bite. Sure we got relegated after a number of years in the Premier League where we performed incredibly against all expectations for a long time. Definitely made some mistakes with managers, Dowie being the obvious one, Les Reed had been a great servant to the club and without any great candidates out there I guess the board trusted him, didn't go well, Pardew became available and they acted quickly, unfortunately 6 months of damage was too much to turn around. What club apart from the Big Four isn't a selling club and apart from maybe Luke Young and Darren Bent good riddance to all the others and we made a lot of money on those two good business for a "small"club like us. Think Scannel or whatever his name is won't be off before he's learned to drive? Gates declining I think we've averaged over 22,000 this season what club wouldn't have a dip in attendance after the Prem, what's your average gate? Don't all fans have a moan about the manager, board players, at times, isn't that what being a fan is all about.
Anyway good luck to you, you obviously love your club, but for the life of me I still can't get the Legoland comment that just doesn't hold up, if it was the Ricoh Arena or something maybe.....
I am going to leave it here for a while - I genuinely do not wish to rub anyone up the wrong way or get into a needless war of petty insults. I have enjoyed myself a bit too much, and I know that sometimes I have the ability to wind people up a bit too much with smart arse comments. Therefore, I will depart and leave you guys to yourselves.
It has been a blast people. Well done for Friday - you are definately "Number One in South London" on the pitch.
Who knows, Maybe we will meet again during the Play-offs.
Henry - I apologise if the 'Saxondale' jibes came across as childish. Do me a favour though - try to talk to Palace folk like they are people rather than something you've scrapped off your shoe. Give a little, get a little.
I don't think you will find a single CAFC fan who claims the board didn't fuck up last year, however that's all it was, a mistake. The club has still been excellently run by our current board, many clubs look at Charlton as the "perfectly run club" so your claims are a little silly. Yes we over spent, it was an attempt to push the club forwards, it didn't work, mainly due to the incompetance of Dowie but as a Palace fan I'm sure you already know all about that.
Our gates are declining yet I'd imagine our smallest league crowd this season is higher than your largest, no, not a fact, an assumption. Also how can we not be happy with the promise of a free season ticket.
Spitting image if I say so myself other than the clothes of course. Where's my zip up cardie : - )
Matt, you ended on a good note mate. We all love our own clubs and thats why we come on these boards sounding off, even I can look at things sometimes with rose-tinted spectacles. Don't worry, I know and my fellow Addicks have had the decency to point that out sometimes. Best of luck at Ipswich tomorrow. A draw would suit us...:-)
20 years ago we were in a whole world of pain with no stadium to call our own, poor journey men players expected to keep us up, portacabins for admin blocks. Whilst you were being described as the team of the 80's / 90's
Now look at us! Weve spent 8 of the past 11 seasons in the top flight (with the other 3 being a Playoff win, a Championship season and this season). A record that Palace would love to have. Constant growth on and off the pitch. We own a modern(ish) stadium with planning permission in place to extend to 40k, own a modern training facility etc.
Yes we have had to sell the likes of Parker and Bent, but then again who doesnt have to sell when the bigger clubs come knocking? Berbatov would jump at Man U if offered......
So you ask if we are happy with CAFC? We'll I'd say that relatively no other club in England has experienced to success that CAFC has done over the past 20 years. We've gone from a club with no future to a club with a future.
You are now a club that doesnt own its own ground, lease fast running out meaning higher costs, falling gates, need to sell what little playing assets you have, loss of parachute payments.......For you the future might be Orange, but its not that bright fella.
i didn't claim anything about hard core rivalry matt , i pointed out palace DO CARE about what charlton do , we took the pee out of you just as you would've taken the pee out of us if you relegated us . personally i have no 'hard core' rivalry with palace but i DO CARE what they get up to cos i like to laugh at the demise of such clubs as millsmall, leeds and palace but i'm a bitter football fan who enjoys other teams suffering;-)
i would say relative success would be holding your position in the top flight for 7 consecutive seasons, have palace ever achieved that???
we have historically/factually been a bigger and better club than palace based on 26 seasons of top flight english football compared to your 13 and a highest average crowd of 40,216 compared to palace's 30,167. with a highest top flight finish of 2nd compared to palaces 3rd and 1 fa cup WON compared to palaces big fat zero i think you'll find these are the FACTS that mean my clubs better than yours ner ner ner ner ner ;-)
No class, no dignity, no style.[/quote]
Have to disagree with you here, you may not like his style, but he certainly has it, even if it his own.
Jordan has got a very big mouth, and sometimes he can be very embarrasing, but he does sometimes speak a lot of sense. The problem is he doesn't care what other people think, and he will dare to say what a lot of people, particularly the average football fan thinks.
One thing I am sorry about, is that he no longer does his column in the Observer, some were strange, but the majority were very good, and applauded by many people including some fans of Charlton.
You should read some of the Palace forums, re there opinion of Mr Murray.
He is a wankerOf the first order and fits in well with the rest of u sad Surrey nothings.
Like i give 2 f**ks what Palarse think of Murray.
Goldberg thats Goldberg " id like as many Charlton to attend this game as we need the money " still we only took 9,000 and yawnnnnnnnnnnnnn won 1 nil. Same old same old. Guess that didnt happen in your virtual twlight Surrey shithole world either.
Matt,
Oh dear oh dear. There are none so blind as those who won't see.
1) In trying to raise the money to buy the ground off Kemsley, Jordan has resulted in a piss poor attempt at a sale and lease back agreement. Basically, you buy the ground for me and I'll gaurantee an income of 1m PA for a 25 year lease of the ground. There were NO, REPEAT NO, takers for this generous offer. Hence you only have 28 months left of your tenancy at SP.
2) The signed off 2006 accounts (you know the ones, 3 month late at Company's House) are a marvellous read.
"The Club have resolved it's tenancy position and will now look to develop the stadium over the medium term". Like the "Reunited" merchandise Jordan flogged, this is not true in any sense of the word.
"It is the current Directors view that the market value of the playing squad is 22m" - MWAHAHHAAA
Charlton - as multi million pound spenders obviously, would struggle to find the following funds to buy the following players that Jordan bought in 2006. a) Kuqi - 2.5m; b) Fat Ifill 750k; c) Scowcroft 500k; d) Fletcher 400k.
Paragraph 4, 5 and 7 of the audiors report mentions Jordan securing the Freehold of Selhurst. That is not true. The freehold of SP is registered to SP Ltd - and Jordan has NO controlling interest in that Company - please see my earlier posts. Indeed the tangible fixed assets were 1,123,767 compared to ours of 36,857,000 for the same acoounting period. I know Selhurst is a shithole but surely it's worth more than 1.1m?
It's all smoke and mirrors with Jordan - and you know it.
So rather than insulting my intelligence why don't you come back with some FACTS? Where, on public record (as you highlighted) does it say there is a 25 year lease on the ground? You are insinuating that Jordan is involved in the 'background' of UBERIOR and yet the only recorded voting rights are with Kemsley. Perhaps Jordan is involved with this mysterious PHL? Who knows - but you're clutching at straws if you believe he has controlling interest over the freehold. If he had, why is he busy trying to tout round a sale and leaseback of SP?
Isn't it funny how a local council clerk can know more about the financing and ownership of your Club than an obvious ITK fan?
Am I happy with the way Charlton are being run? Yes, we are solvent, we own our own ground and training ground and having gotten rid of some of the journeymen Premiership footballers (JFH, Rommedahl, Faye etc) and sold some of those like Darren Bent and Luke Young and have invested in a number of young players so I think the future is bright - at least I can see some light at the end of the tunnel.
Remember Palace and Charlton are only local rivals - and the rivalry is like two bald men fighting over a comb, our real competition is mutual - it's the insanity of the football industry where agents pick up six figure sums for making a few phone calls, and where players are out of our reach because they can be squad players at several times the remuneration that we smaller teams cannot afford. Whether we like it or not our board do not have the bottomless pockets of many of those who now own Premiership and even CCC clubs and so we have to cut our cloth accordingly. Under the present circumstances I'd sooner Charlton were a yo-yo team who brought players on and ducked and dived a bit in the transfer market, discovering the odd gem here and there, than went down the death or glory route and mortgaged ourselves up to the hilt to chase success. Who pays for that and for over paid players anyway? Ultimately it's us - through Sky subscriptions, higher ticket prices, overpriced merchandise and the like.
Are we on the cusp of a decline?...Well last year was a pretty wretched season for us - our two best players Darren Bent and Andy Reid were injured for long portions of it, while Marcus Bent did seem to score heavily, but only off the park. And yes we made a mistake with the appointment of Dowie and then Les Reed. By the time Pardew came on board it was perhaps too late and he didn't have the players to work with as a result of those we wanted being out of our reach and those he was left with simply not consistently good enough for the Premiership. Hence relegation might actually be a blessing in disguise, the rubbish has gone, new players have arrived and young players who Curbs and Pards couldn't trust in the Premiership are getting regular runs in the team - like Youga and Basey. One bad season after several good ones in a competitive league spelt relegation, whether that relegation will be disastrous as at say Leeds, or will be a blip remains to be seen. A new squad is coming together, but on the pitch consistency and adapting to a different less cultered style of football has been our problem. During the January transfer window we added three strong seasoned players at CCC level in Lee Cook, Greg Halford and Andy Gray, while losing only Andy Reid, we may even get Scott Sinclair on loan. Come the end of the season I think we'll be in the playoffs at the very least, whether we go up is moot, but in a weak league our slip-ups aren't being penalised as they might have in previous years - it's a good thing to have luck on your side.
Yes Charlton are a selling club, whether we like it or not that's the reality, but in the days of the 80s and 90s we sold players through necessity, simply to keep ourselves afloat, that isn't the case now, as with the sales of Parker and Darren Bent we can afford to hold off until serious money is on the table and all ambitious footballers should never be prevented from playing at a higher level. To compare with Palace I think we are stronger in just about every aspect, the legoland stadium you deride is modern and needs only extending and that will happen when the money and support is there to justify another 13,000 seats. If it doesn't happen and we stay at our 27K capacity then fine, no major money needs to be spent. However, looking at Selhurst that ground needs a total revamp, four mismatched crumbling stands that are overdue for being pulled down and rebuilt - and that's just to stand still, where will the money come from for that? Simon Jordan is looking for investors to buy the freehold, which must be the first priority, as he hasn't got the money for that let alone renovating the stadium I'd be worried. His game plan must be - either find a rich investor, or get into the premiership and take the £30m for finishing last to pay for everything - right now both scenarios look equally unlikely.
You do not have a Charlton sob story and I unreservedly withdraw my comments.
Killersbeard on the other hand....[/quote]
You - "You guys haven't answered my questions, how come so many of you claim a personal grievance against Palace"
budgie - "I honestly can't understand the hatred, a lot of you feel towards Palace though".
So you ask for reasons and I give you a genuine personal account of what happened and why, as a result, feelings towards your club run so high with Charlton fans and you come back with, "Sob story".
As I said before, your club, your chairman and your fans have had ample opportunity to state that you understand why we disliked the six years at 'sh' so much, why we could never call it our home, why we saw it as a stepping stone to our demise and that we were actually spot on about uncle ron as you have since found out.
But instead and still, we get, 'sob story', 'we did you a favour' and all you've done is to replace your blind faith in noades with your blind faith in jordan.
And you wonder why?
There are none so blind as those that can, but will not see.
Calm down mate, you'll have a heart attack if you carry on like that.
As I posted earlier, I certainly do care about you as rivals, I don't hate Charlton, far from it, I admire the role model, and hope for Palace to be able to emulate it.
I'm just pleased to have found a Charlton site, where the majority of posters can talk reasonably , and respect each others opinions. However just as on the Palace site's there's always the occasional person who really is only happy, when they're having a rant.
budgie - "I honestly can't understand the hatred, a lot of you feel towards Palace though".[/b]
As I said before, your club, your chairman and your fans have had ample opportunity to state that you understand why we disliked the six years at 'sh' so much, why we could never call it our home, why we saw it as a stepping stone to our demise and that we were actually spot on about uncle ron as you have since found out.
And you wonder why?
There are none so blind as those that can, but will not see.[/quote]
Maybe you are right, I must admit I used to have a hatred of Ron Noades, for all the things he did to my club, but time has healed a lot of that, and I now just have a dislike of the man. I certainly wouldn't fancy ground sharing, and having to commute that distance every other week, but I do find it irrational the hatred vented at Palace fans who gained nothing from your time at Selhurst. In fact the only thing Palace fans got from it, was ridicule from opposing fans who reminded us, we no longer had exclusive rights to Selhurst.
Irational hatred ? no mate you try geting the piss taken out of you for years by a bunch of SurreyTossers and being treated like shit every game by YOUR CLUB.
It would so very very very funny for you to have to share withyour big rivals Brighton.
[/quote]
No, but the only person to gain was Ron Noades.
As for sharing with Brighton, well it looks like it'll be a nice ground when its finished, it'd be a bit of a distance though, think I'd prefer the Emirates.
I do hope that you continue to post in such a way that i can actually enjoy reading and dont go jumping on the Matthimself way of just trying to belittle those who's opinions differ to his after starting off so well after all it only all arose to that level after we had won, his mask beagn to slip you could say
If yu do i am sure you will find all of us accomodating as MH has only managed to prove what most footie fans know already and that is
you are better off posting on your own site if you dont want to come across as arogant and ignorant to others.
I do hope that you continue to post in such a way that i can actually enjoy reading and dont go jumping on the Matthimself way of just trying to belittle those who's opinions differ to his after starting off so well after all it only all arose to that level after we had won, his mask beagn to slip you could say
[/quote]
Thanks nla, its good to find an away site where most responses are friendly, and you can have a decent exchange of views.
In fairness to MH, I think he came in peace, but the result probably meant more to him than he thought.
Also, its been quite informative, and I have found some of the info re the ground issues very interesting.
or the result meant more to him that he was willing to admit. Denial is not river in Africa you know?
The whole Saxondale thing was very bizarre.
So it's been informative. Does that mean you won't be saying "I don't understand why Charlton fans dislike Palace so much" anymore?
So it's been informative. Does that mean you won't be saying "I don't understand why Charlton fans dislike Palace so much" anymore?[/quote][/quote]
Actually, I meant the Selhurst Park ground issues.
As to the "I don't understand why Charlton fans dislike Palace so much" issue, all I can really say, is that I can understand a dislike for Palace because of the ground sharing, but the hatred shown by some is a little disturbing. I know several Charlton fans, and there is a lot of banter exchanged, however I know that they certainly don't hate Palace fans.
Fair enough. I'm sure you feel the same way about Brighton fans. Is the "hatred" of them any more rational or less disturbing especially as it is based on just a few games in the 1970s.
For the record I don't hate any Palace fans although I do have a disdain for those that bleat on and on about their indifference, claim that "we saved you" or who call me a "moron". : -)
Wake up nolly, you'll miss the game.
Fair enough. I'm sure you feel the same way about Brighton fans.[/cite][/quote]
Probably not any more, don't know why, either I'm getting older, or the fact we don't play them much anymore.
Hopefully when they sort there ground issues, they'll rise up the leagues again, and we can renew our rivalry, although I'm sure you'd prefer us to sink down the leagues, to meet them.