[quote][cite]Posted By: Valley11[/cite]Thought he had a decent game myself. If he sent players off, as some have suggested, then he'd get the label of a ref trying to make a name for himself. Can't really win. The multi-millionaires who dived and constantly tried to cheat are the ones who are a disgrace. And I include players from both sides in that. With England's limp exit, this tournament has only served to turn me off football. Everything but the League 1 variety, that is![/quote]
Wholeheartedly agree. The players made that an awful game to referee, thought Webb did well in the circumstances.
The whole World Cup has been decidedly dull and uninspiring.
I thought he did okay in the cirmcumstances. Very difficult match to officiate when players were diving everywhere, feigning injuries, trying to get opponents booked etc.
Thought he had a decent game to be honest. None of the yellows were undeserved. He's always going to get stick if he pulls out that many yellows, but the game warranted it. Showed lenience with Robben, but I think that was justified as Robben didn't want to kick the ball away to waste time, just because he was frustrated. Could've been a couple more reds, but overall I thought he didn't do badly.
I wholeheartedly agree with those that say that he did as well as anyone could, given the nervy, tough and dirty game he drew. I thought that he was forced to use his cards a lot, without losing control, and was clearly desperate to avoid sending anyone off, which I agree with. I know the laws are the laws (and there will be some who maintain that each call should be consistent regardless of the match or the situation), but there are times to be technical and times to not (Robben's ill-advised "goal" long after the whistle comes to mind).
Frankly, he struck me as a decent man and a good ref doing his best while surrounded by hacks (the Dutch) and whiners and hysterics (Spanish), and both sides wouldn't have had a leg to stand on in argument had even more cards been shown, and a couple of players sent off.
The replay of the high boot on Alonso was painful looking though...but I didn't think it so bad at first blush, but was focused on the Spanish players surrounding and berating him like a bunch of John Terrys.
De Jong's challenge was disgraceful and was deserved of a red. Like the Swindon player getting sent off against us in the play-offs. I thought Holland were terrible and went out there to kick Spain off the park. Thankfully the best team won but an awful final.
u do make me laugh some of u. if he'd sent players off he would have been accused of ruining the final. some of u never reffed a fucking game in your life yet all better referees than a bloke that has reffed a champs league final and world cup final in one season ONLY ref to have ever done
[cite]Posted By: D_F_T[/cite]Absolute disgrace tonight, time after time he gave decisions to Spain and the events leading up to the goal should mean that Webb is finished as a referee. Be a very long time until we have another English ref in a World Cup final. Web, you are a tosser!
u having a laugh - de jong and van bommel to name but two plaers he could have sent off dont see them in a spain shirt.
It was the world cup final and he did his best to keep it 11 vs 11, the foul by de jong was worthy of a red card but at full speed i didnt see it properly and nor did he proberly,
it was back to a full contact sport something that i have been hoping for, why ruin what is supposed to be the greatest game ever for players, the Dutch tried to get close and physical to the spanish, the spanish as normal made the most of every touch and tackle, no one got hurt
although not brilliant Webb did fine, the best team won, did they really, i thought the germans only came 3rd, spain were boring beyond belief, 1 nil to the arsenal was deemed boring how 1 nil to the spain is not.
[cite]Posted By: GNelson[/cite]Thought he had a decent game to be honest. None of the yellows were undeserved. He's always going to get stick if he pulls out that many yellows, but the game warranted it. Showed lenience with Robben, but I think that was justified as Robben didn't want to kick the ball away to waste time, just because he was frustrated. Could've been a couple more reds, but overall I thought he didn't do badly.
agree with this, thought he did well and was hardly helped by the players of both sides, yes Holland were dirty but the Spanish - every time one of them is tackled they are all in his face waving imaginary cards !!!!
[quote][cite]Posted By: Ledge[/cite]u do make me laugh some of u. if he'd sent players off he would have been accused of ruining the final. some of u never reffed a fucking game in your life yet all better referees than a bloke that has reffed a champs league final and world cup final in one season ONLY ref to have ever done
Ledge we are all better judges of a football game than myopic referees, have n't you noticed, same with the likes of TV panellists. Referees just don't understand the rules of the game.
If he sent them off in the first half he'd be accused of ruining the spectacle. There were fouls every two minutes, a lesser ref would've sent a few people off at least Webb tried to keep them all on the pitch which tbf is what you want in a World Cup final
Dutch view of Webb - no surprises http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8809048.stm take no responsibility, suggest Poyet should have been sent off, forgetting that if Webb had been tough on that decision consistently then by that time there would probably have been only 8 Dutch on the field
Definition of a football fan: generally someone who watches a match - and thinks he understands the rules of a game of which there are no rules.
Definition of a referee: a person who has studied the laws of the game, been examined and qualified to interpret them.
Like players, some referees are more experienced and a better standard than others.
Like players, all referees are subject to human imperfections, and occasionally make mistakes .
Referees can only make decisions based on what they actually see or as advised by their assistants.
It is an essential part of the game that referees have the courage to make the necessary decisions at the right time and entrusted to remain impartial.
IMO Howard Webb did okay last night, made a few mistakes (one of which may have been the catalyst for Spain's goal),
but just about kept a lid on it where others may have lost control.
He was far better than some of the clowns we see at The Valley (sorry, couldn't resist!).
Just reading through some of these, amazing just how much of a difference in opinion there is.
Agree with what some others have said, thought he had an impossible task. Record number of cards but looking back at them, none undeserved. Holland could have had 2 or 3 sent off really but its a World Cup Final, Webb tried his best to keep it 11 v 11. Personally don't think anyone could have done any better.
Champions League FInal and World Cup Final within 2 months, fantastic achievement.
Thought he did well last night. Both sides, but especially the Dutch were lucky it was an English referee in charge otherwise they may well have ended with a few sendings off. I can only think of one decision he got wrong when Netherlands should have had a corner after a free kick was deflected off of Fabregas and a goal kick was given. Can't see what the Dutch were complaining about in the lead up to the goal. What the Spanish defenders did was good defending.
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]Can't see what the Dutch were complaining about in the lead up to the goal. What the Spanish defenders did was good defendin
I haven't bothered with seeing endless replays, but from what I remember at the time last night, the Dutch player was caught in a sandwich and bodychecked by one of the defenders.
In my experience generally, most referees would have stopped the game and awarded a free kick.
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]Thought he did well last night. Both sides, but especially the Dutch were lucky it was an English referee in charge otherwise they may well have ended with a few sendings off. I can only think of one decision he got wrong when Netherlands should have had a corner after a free kick was deflected off of Fabregas and a goal kick was given. Can't see what the Dutch were complaining about in the lead up to the goal. What the Spanish defenders did was good defending.
Totally agree with that. Although maybe the Dutch figured that an English referee would be more likely to let them get away with a more physical game than another European or certainly South American referee.
Tim Cahill must have watched that De Jong challenge and wondered about the strange decisions that referees make - Cahill's "challenge" in the Germany game barely merited a booking and he got a red card.
Don't see why it seems to have just drifted into popular folklore that it was a difficult game to ref. I suppose if the beeb say it enough times, it's true. There wasn't actually that much diving, there were no goal line scrambles, there weren't any big penalty claims. There were just a lot of pretty obvious bookings.
I thought Webb started well, but got shakier as the game went on, and seemed frightened to use the red card. Snijder got away with a clear booking by pretending to be injured, then got away with another apparently because he is a flair player. Robben kicked the ball away on a booking, which doesn't take a lot of interpretation. van Bommel committed at least 3 bookable offences straight after being booked. De Jong ninja kick was a clear red. On the first booking on Hertinger he didn't signal advantage, then went back and booked him because Iniesta was rolling around.
When both teams say that the ref was poor, then they probably were.
We all have the benefit of endless replays from every possible angle.
The referee gets just one chance at the actual time - and his decision is based on what he sees at that one time.
The TV Pundit Muppet Show get the benefit of analysing to death any incident - usually after the match has actually finished.
The benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing.
When the players take, and act with, full responsibility for the way they play the game then they can blame the referee for "failing to control the game."
Football has become pretty hard to defend for me these days in terms of player, media and on occasion fan behaviour. I just see such little honour out there these days.
I enjoyed the way the Germans played this tournament. Appreciated if not admired the Spanish but I'm glad they won the final as my soft spot for the Dutch hardened considerably last night.
I may get shot down for this but I think the goals should be made bigger - I want to see more goals.
[cite]Posted By: Sco[/cite]
I may get shot down for this but I think the goals should be made bigger - I want to see more goals.
I don't think that's the answer, although I get where you're coming from.
I think the whole issue is with the fitness of modern players. In the classic 70s/80s finals you had tubby blokes on 30 a day trotting around in skin tight shorts and smoking 40 a day. Your modern athlete covers something like twice the distance of his counterpart 20 years ago, so the lack of space shouldn't come as a shock. Socrates came up with this 20 years ago and was largely treated as a mentalist, despite actually having indisputable scientific fact on his side. With costs of football spiralling seemingly out of control I wonder if we'd not be better cutting a team down to 10, at least at the professional level.
Oggy's comment on hindsight is spot on. Webb was ok but seemed more lenient with the Dutch who were even worse than Plymouth at the Valley a couple of years ago.
Comments
If he sent players off, as some have suggested, then he'd get the label of a ref trying to make a name for himself. Can't really win. The multi-millionaires who dived and constantly tried to cheat are the ones who are a disgrace. And I include players from both sides in that. With England's limp exit, this tournament has only served to turn me off football.
Everything but the League 1 variety, that is![/quote]
Wholeheartedly agree. The players made that an awful game to referee, thought Webb did well in the circumstances.
The whole World Cup has been decidedly dull and uninspiring.
Frankly, he struck me as a decent man and a good ref doing his best while surrounded by hacks (the Dutch) and whiners and hysterics (Spanish), and both sides wouldn't have had a leg to stand on in argument had even more cards been shown, and a couple of players sent off.
The replay of the high boot on Alonso was painful looking though...but I didn't think it so bad at first blush, but was focused on the Spanish players surrounding and berating him like a bunch of John Terrys.
The only game i really enjoyed was Italy v Paraguay.
Were there any real fans in the stadiums? All looked so staged.
So glad we did'nt go now.
Oh & imo Webb did ok.
u having a laugh - de jong and van bommel to name but two plaers he could have sent off dont see them in a spain shirt.
it was back to a full contact sport something that i have been hoping for, why ruin what is supposed to be the greatest game ever for players, the Dutch tried to get close and physical to the spanish, the spanish as normal made the most of every touch and tackle, no one got hurt
although not brilliant Webb did fine, the best team won, did they really, i thought the germans only came 3rd, spain were boring beyond belief, 1 nil to the arsenal was deemed boring how 1 nil to the spain is not.
agree with this, thought he did well and was hardly helped by the players of both sides, yes Holland were dirty but the Spanish - every time one of them is tackled they are all in his face waving imaginary cards !!!!
Ledge we are all better judges of a football game than myopic referees, have n't you noticed, same with the likes of TV panellists. Referees just don't understand the rules of the game.
If he sent them off in the first half he'd be accused of ruining the spectacle. There were fouls every two minutes, a lesser ref would've sent a few people off at least Webb tried to keep them all on the pitch which tbf is what you want in a World Cup final
Definition of a referee: a person who has studied the laws of the game, been examined and qualified to interpret them.
Like players, some referees are more experienced and a better standard than others.
Like players, all referees are subject to human imperfections, and occasionally make mistakes .
Referees can only make decisions based on what they actually see or as advised by their assistants.
It is an essential part of the game that referees have the courage to make the necessary decisions at the right time and entrusted to remain impartial.
IMO Howard Webb did okay last night, made a few mistakes (one of which may have been the catalyst for Spain's goal),
but just about kept a lid on it where others may have lost control.
He was far better than some of the clowns we see at The Valley (sorry, couldn't resist!).
Agree with what some others have said, thought he had an impossible task. Record number of cards but looking back at them, none undeserved. Holland could have had 2 or 3 sent off really but its a World Cup Final, Webb tried his best to keep it 11 v 11. Personally don't think anyone could have done any better.
Champions League FInal and World Cup Final within 2 months, fantastic achievement.
surely he's more likely to show her a yellow...
I haven't bothered with seeing endless replays, but from what I remember at the time last night, the Dutch player was caught in a sandwich and bodychecked by one of the defenders.
In my experience generally, most referees would have stopped the game and awarded a free kick.
Totally agree with that. Although maybe the Dutch figured that an English referee would be more likely to let them get away with a more physical game than another European or certainly South American referee.
Tim Cahill must have watched that De Jong challenge and wondered about the strange decisions that referees make - Cahill's "challenge" in the Germany game barely merited a booking and he got a red card.
I thought Webb started well, but got shakier as the game went on, and seemed frightened to use the red card. Snijder got away with a clear booking by pretending to be injured, then got away with another apparently because he is a flair player. Robben kicked the ball away on a booking, which doesn't take a lot of interpretation. van Bommel committed at least 3 bookable offences straight after being booked. De Jong ninja kick was a clear red. On the first booking on Hertinger he didn't signal advantage, then went back and booked him because Iniesta was rolling around.
When both teams say that the ref was poor, then they probably were.
The referee gets just one chance at the actual time - and his decision is based on what he sees at that one time.
The TV Pundit Muppet Show get the benefit of analysing to death any incident - usually after the match has actually finished.
The benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Football has become pretty hard to defend for me these days in terms of player, media and on occasion fan behaviour. I just see such little honour out there these days.
I enjoyed the way the Germans played this tournament. Appreciated if not admired the Spanish but I'm glad they won the final as my soft spot for the Dutch hardened considerably last night.
I may get shot down for this but I think the goals should be made bigger - I want to see more goals.
It might help the Charlton forward line ........ especially if McLeod stays.
I think the whole issue is with the fitness of modern players. In the classic 70s/80s finals you had tubby blokes on 30 a day trotting around in skin tight shorts and smoking 40 a day. Your modern athlete covers something like twice the distance of his counterpart 20 years ago, so the lack of space shouldn't come as a shock. Socrates came up with this 20 years ago and was largely treated as a mentalist, despite actually having indisputable scientific fact on his side. With costs of football spiralling seemingly out of control I wonder if we'd not be better cutting a team down to 10, at least at the professional level.
worse than Plymouth at the Valley a couple of years ago.